Monkey to Millions | John (Session 1) - Introduction and Resume Review - Sep 23, 2019
In John's first session we cover his current situation including trying to find opportunities from a non-target school heading into his senior year. We dive into a detailed resume review and speak about what he needs to do over the next several months to help limit his downside given how late he is to the game. Learn what I want him to do most to improve his resume as well as specific networking advice in this session.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 1) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front-row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a non-traditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. In John's first session, we cover his current situation, including trying to find opportunities from a non-target school heading into his senior year. We dive into a detailed resume review and speak about what he needs to do over the next several months to help limit his downside. Given how late he is to the game, learn what I want him to do most to improve his resume, as well as specific networking advice in this session. Enjoy. Awesome. Will you are. You are. Session two. You're the second session. You're the second person on the docket here with me. I had a really fun session with Andrew last week, so I'm excited to do this again. It was a blast.
John : [00:01:48] That's awesome. I'm excited here as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:01:50] Cool, man. So let's just start out. I mean, it'd be great just to kind of get a little bit of like your background. Just refresh my memory. I have your resume here. But just like, give me a refresher exactly kind of where you're at. I see you had like an IV internship and stuff like that, but I'm sure my screen, I'm going to kind of follow along here with your stuff. But if you could just give me, give me a refresh where you're at and
John : [00:02:18] Yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:02:19] So you're in your last year, right?
John : [00:02:23] Mm hmm, that's right. Should I say school name as well or
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:02:25] Whatever you have to? Yeah, I mean, they can see it here. So it's fine, but like, yeah, in terms of it'd be great to hear just like what you how you've progressed and kind of what you're thinking for next summer and stuff.
John: [00:02:38] Gotcha. Yeah. So this summer, I had a summer Reynolds position at a biology advisory shop not to sell-side focus. So a lot of my tasks was research and putting together marketing material, so it wasn't directly related. Now, this fall, I have an investment-making internship at a middle-market firm down here in Costa Mesa, so I'm hoping that will help me with my full-time recruiting. So this summer, I'm pretty late to the game. I would say, but this summer I've been networking and studying technical and behavioral questions and just really trying to put my foot in the door as much as I can. So, you know, full-time we're already kicked off, but hopefully when I start receiving my interviews, I can knock those down and then get a full-time position for next summer.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:03:27] Cool. Yeah. So you're just you're you basically are senior now. You had an internship over the summer, which is good, but it was a small boutique, so there was no kind of full-time offers given or there was. Are they giving you an offer to come back or now?
John: [00:03:41] Yeah, no, they don't. They don't give offers. And personally, I probably wouldn't have gone back.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:03:48] Yeah, OK. So it was it long hours, was it? Did you learn a lot or is it more because it's by side you want to do sell-side or
John: [00:03:57] Yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:03:58] It's still advisory, right? Still banking?
John: [00:04:01] But like by side of more or less, I mean, most of the work I did was deal origination.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:04:08] How cold calling a lot of cold calling.
John: [00:04:11] Yeah, a lot of cold calling a lot of research and putting together just profiles of companies that our clients would be reaching out to.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:04:19] And so you don't want to be doing that type, but you don't want to be like dialing for dollars.
John: [00:04:25] Yeah, for your career. Yeah, I mean, I started the fall internship a couple of weeks ago, so a lot of the work I've been doing is putting together Sims working on different models like I emailed you about having a rough time with that, but I'm getting it slowly. And yeah, just hopping on a lot of phone call with our clients, which is really intriguing and interesting.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:04:47] Ok, cool. Thanks. So I mean, yeah, you're first off agreed. You're late to the game. Like a lot of people who are going to have jobs in investment banking post-grad in a, they already have their offers, right because they had chip. And so like, you know that I know that. So we're already and you're at an on target. So we're kind of battling uphill, but your backgrounds looks really strong. Your resume looks good overall. I think you have a lot of great things going for you. So I think with kind of some crazy hustle, I think you can get your and, you know, it's not like you're starting from zero, right? You're you have you do have a good internship on there that can kind of you can talk to at least. So maybe with that, we kind of just jump straight into your resume and just do a little resume review. Yeah. Is that cool?
John: [00:05:33] Yeah. Actually updated my resume for my fall internship as well. It just has one bullet line. Just thought I'd include it. Could I send that over to you?
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:05:41] Yeah, shooter over to me. I'll use this one for now just to like, kind of go through this guy. I assume you have some similar stuff on there from this. Yeah, yeah. Definitely agree to get that new one on there, because then you have two different companies that are like kind of banking and you could even like reduce the bullets under fan serve or something like that.
John: [00:05:58] Definitely. Ok, sounds good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:06:00] Or actually, I would say actually just take a bullet out of your Phi Kappa, you know, something like that. So a couple of things off the bat, no one overall very, very solid resume. I think there's a couple of things you do really well. Number one, you like actually quantify a lot, which a lot of people fail to do. It's like one of the. Easiest things to improve it, but you really have that, so. So I think you're doing really well in terms of quantifying in terms of like how you actually made impact at each of these organizations and the specific stuff you did. The only thing is the only thing I do is like. Even do it even more, if you can, so like even like a small example under finserv that your third bullet ensured quality assurance to develop application use case to satisfy clients user interface, like how many clients one client or what type of client before billed out. You know, just like any time, you can add something tangible to a bullet. Whether it's like the number of people you call the number or the metric, any sort of metric where you made an improvement or made something, you should always, always, always do that. And I think you already know that because you either had a resume review or somebody helped you or you just knew intuitively to do that, which is great. The other thing I'd say is you may want to take the resume and put it into the show format because you have enough good stuff here where your space is really important and the episode resume template it. It saves you a lot of space in the header because the name is off to the left and a lot of the content information is up in the upper right. Mm-hmm. And so you get an extra like bullet or two of space in there without having to sacrifice removing stuff. Ok. So aesthetically, I think there's a few little things with spacing you could do to improve it, like transaction experiences feels really crunched in there, and that's something you really want to highlight, since that's like that like screams banking. Right? So let's actually put a little space above that. Let's give it a little bit more airtime, especially as you kind of get on a deal here with this new fall internship.
John: [00:08:05] Yeah, definitely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:08:06] Have you been able to keep your grades up?
John: [00:08:09] We haven't started the new year. We're actually starting this year. But no, my grades are. That's exactly how it is right now, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:08:17] Ok. What are your classes? Start your late now.
John: [00:08:20] Thursday Yeah. Quarter system is super late.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:08:22] Yeah. Ok, cool. Well, hey, that's good. It gives you a little more time to to kind of hustle right now. That's cool. Yeah, OK. So there's those comments I had. Let me see what else, what I was going to say. Yeah. So we did the introduction. You told us a little bit. So where are you from? Just give us a little more background about like, I want to just know more about your story, your parents, where your are you born and raised in SoCal? Like what? Yeah.
John: [00:08:50] So I'm born and raised in SoCal. I'm from Riverside. So not too far from where I'm at right now. It's close enough to home where if I ever need anything, I can run back real quick. But it's far enough away where I have an excuse to live on my own. Yeah, my parents, my dad's a small business owner and my mom works in life insurance, so they have no clue about investment banking or management consulting or any of those advisory services. So when I told them I want to do investment banking, they were like, what? Yeah, so. They immigrated in eighty five, so I mean, all they knew or all they wanted me to become was like an engineer or a doctor.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:09:32] Where they where they come from, Jordan?
John: [00:09:35] Ok. Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of how it all started. So I came to UCI as an engineer and then quickly realized that it wasn't for me. Ok? Then I jumped into math and economics, and I really enjoyed well. I enjoyed the math portion because of the engineering classes, and I didn't really relate to the physics and chemistry portion portions. Yeah, I was pretty solid in math, so that's why I kind of. I rolled it over into math and econ, and I just enjoyed econ just from classes in high school. And then that rolled over into quantitative econ is just like a mesh of both where it's like math statistics, econ, all at one.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:16] Have you always done pretty well in school?
John: [00:10:18] Yeah, I would say so. Yeah, I was taught five percent in high school. And I mean, come on you. I always tried to like, keep my grades up just because I know it would be important and whatever.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:28] Do your parents have an immigrant mentality where they're like, make sure you get high grades and like, you have to be a doctor or an engineer or a lawyer or something?
John: [00:10:36] Yeah, more or less. I mean, I guess the harder on me because I'm their first child and then now my two younger sisters, they're just like, Yeah, just
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:44] Do whatever you want.
John: [00:10:45] Yeah, just like, try your best.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:48] Yeah. Are you? What is your dad do in terms of business, small business owner,
John: [00:10:53] Small gas or gas stations? Cool. Yeah. Down in Lake Elsinore, in Temecula.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:59] You know, my wife is an alum of Irvine. You see her?
John: [00:11:02] Yeah, I remember you mentioned when we had our initial phone call, I thought that was pretty awesome.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:11:06] Yeah. Yeah, she was at community college, did that. And then she ended up going to med school up at UCSF and becoming a dermatologist. Yeah. So not bad, huh? Not a bad trajectory. Not bad at all. So, yeah, so it worked out for her. So hopefully same for you. You follow a similar path. So is there like I assume when you started at Irvine, you weren't thinking like investment banking because you probably would have looked at other, more financing schools and stuff like that?
John: [00:11:36] Oh yeah. I had no idea because like I said, like, I'm the first child, just like in my family as a whole, like I'm the oldest cousin as well. So I had like, no idea what target schools were on target or what. I know some kids apply as
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:11:51] Like, when did you start hearing like a mess in banking? Was it your sophomore year as a freshman?
John: [00:11:56] Yeah, I'd say like late my sophomore year and then that's really late. Yeah, yeah, middle of my junior year. That's when I found out about the Investment Banking Association, and that's when I started going to their meetings. And that's when I realized, like, All right, maybe this is something I'm really interested in because after my sophomore year, I had an internship with Disney. And that's kind of when it solidified that I wanted to be in finance, but work over there. It was great. People were awesome, great culture. But the work kind of seems stagnant. And I guess on a day-to-day basis, more or less the same.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:12:29] It's like. You mean,
John: [00:12:31] Yeah, DNA reporting, variance analysis. Yeah, working in SAP and in various databases.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:12:40] Because let me just step back because, you know, having that experience and then having some banking experience and being a sharp kid, there may be an option where banking doesn't work out for you. Like, let's say we'd go through all this and you're just busting your ass and you just can't break in for whatever reason you say you get one or two good interviews and you aren't on that day. Would you consider doing? And at like a fortune five hundred or at FDP program to get some skills because or transaction advisory services at a big four? Yeah, because that can do that can you can still get into. You can get into banking a year later, huh? And it's it delays you a year, but you're still on a track that's very well kind of paved. Does that make sense? Yeah. And then once you get that banking experience like we're going to, I mean, you should definitely shoot your shot and go as hard as you can to get it. But I'm saying it's always good to have like you don't want to be graduating in whatever it is nine months and be like, Oh man, I put all my eggs in the banking basket, now unemployed. And then all of a sudden you're like scrambling to try to get any job.
John: [00:13:47] You're right. Yeah, and I've been thinking about that as well lately. Kind of. I feel like I've been reaching out to other alumni, not just in banking. Yeah, just to diversify that basket, but know like, I'd definitely be interested, especially at being a role at like a Big Tech company. I feel like that's something that be really interesting to me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:14:05] Even the startup area is a startup ecosystem is really interesting. You could like you could do PHP and a I like, like you said, a large tech kind of cut your teeth there and potentially jump into a smaller like series, a startup that's like fast growing and exciting and maybe like the second person in like the finance department. I mean, and like, be right in the CFO and kind of grow there.
John: [00:14:28] Yeah, that's something that definitely be interested in, actually. Listen to your podcast. I forgot the gentleman's name or if he even said his name. But the bell, what is it? The FDP program?
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:14:39] Yeah. Yeah. Financial.
Speaker2: [00:14:41] Yep, yeah. He's like in the medical services, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:14:44] Yeah, I know which one you're talking about now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: [00:14:47] I thought that was an interesting story. So, yeah, like, I'd definitely be. I guess I have to do my own personal research into it. But yeah, definitely be.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:14:55] You went from he went from flip to like a private equity, private equity backed startup, and they're growing super fast and like, he's growing with them. And so it's I think it's a good place to like, have a good career and not, you know, corporate dev corp fin where you're actually doing the transactional work. If it's for an acquisitive company, a big enough company can actually be really, really interesting. But yeah, anyways, still, go for banking is a great platform like still go for it. We're going to try to get you in as much as we can. The only reason I say that is because it's super late for you. And so like, you know, I know the odds are stacked against you, but you know, I think you have a decent shot given what I'm seeing, I think you have a decent shot. So, you know, I think it's a perfect kind of like maybe, you know, long shot, but that's why you're here is because I think we could potentially do it if we hit every, every kind of note, right? So, yeah, let's try to help you do that, so, OK, so back, so sorry, I kind of went backwards and that's OK. You got your more, more background and more info. But so going back to the resume, I think. Yeah, I definitely want to see the new one. But I think you could save some space, I think a couple of things. I don't see an intersection down here. Ok. I'd like to see that, I mean, the other thing is, investment banking association is great, but you're just a general, no general member there. So I don't know if you want to like lead with that.
John: [00:16:21] Ok, I'm not good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:16:25] Maybe I mean, it's the most relevant and maybe leave that there, but like interests I would interest are typically under very underrated on a resume because they it allows people who are lazy and don't look at your resume, which is about 80 percent of people before they get on the phone with you to just quickly go down and create a conversation and make it easy on them.
John: [00:16:45] Gotcha. Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:16:46] So don't underestimate that. Don't think it's a wasted line. It's really not. So that's the question is like, what are you going to put there? Because it sounds like you're pretty active with your frat, you're pretty active with, like the radio station. Do you have any interests outside of like school and work and all the activities you're doing?
John: [00:17:07] Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess just in my free time, I love playing pickup basketball. I know that's like in the men's club basketball, but I kind of dived away from that this past year. I love finding new music or creating playlists. I think I have found out one of my friends got a job at Spotify, just creating playlists. I thought that was like the coolest thing. I was like getting paid just to make playlists. Yeah. Game of Thrones took up a massive amount of my time, and yeah, I definitely can definitely. I had a lot of stuff in an intersection coming.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:17:44] Yeah, I do that. I mean, I think add like four or five, you can things in there and then send that through for sure. Ok. Because I think I think you can it can kind of round out. I mean, I think I don't think it's boring because you have the activity stuff in there, but I think it's it'll add kind of round out the CV a lot more. Ok, what else? I mean, it was this was in pretty good shape, to be honest. The only other thing I'd say is on your banking. Internship, I feel like in this kind of shows like you said, you're struggling a little bit with financial modeling, like in your internship. It doesn't surprise me because you don't have the financial modeling like front and center on your you're not screaming financial modeling.
John: [00:18:31] Yeah. I mean, it wasn't like I said, it wasn't like I would. I wouldn't say it was like totally a banking internship because we
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:18:37] Know I get that. But like, I think you need to have the keywords up here somewhere somehow with Andrew. We talked about this and he was smart enough to like, put in kind of a bullet talking about how his ongoing training with like one of these financial modeling training programs. So like, I think you should do something there, whether it's, you know, whichever one you choose to invest, then I think you should do that because then it allows you in like one of your top bullets to put in, like, you know, financial modeling, training with this. And so you can kind of put it under your internship near the top as a bullet, like while you were working at the internship you were training, you're doing self-study. But the beauty of that is it's getting it's getting DCF. Financial modeling. It's getting valuation training comps, all that stuff at the top of your resume. So it's hitting on all the most important skills people are reading that that's one of the first things I read is like, Yes, OK. He knows how to model, you know what I mean, and that's exactly what you want them to do instead of like, Oh man, he was just cold calling here, blah. Then it's just like, I don't know if that was really good experience. Can the kid actually model? And the answer is probably right now. No, not as well as you'd like, but you're working on it, right? So. Yeah, that makes sense. In the meantime, you don't want to like, miss out on opportunities because people think you don't have that skill set.
John: [00:19:53] Yeah, no. I definitely hear you OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:19:55] You're clearly smart enough to develop that skill set pretty fast if you're willing to put in the time and drill. So I'll be doing that, so tell me about the hours right now, are you like you're going to be doing this through while you're working at school? How many hours do they expect you to work?
John [00:20:10] Yeah. So I guess the first two weeks was full time. So I was my first real glimpse at because at the shop over the summer, they didn't really expect much of the interns. I mean, we'd show up like I ate leave by like five or six. Yeah. Like, yeah, it wasn't the horror stories that I've heard, but I
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:20:29] Got this job because it was like unpaid. Or is that because they know, like, we're not going give you full-time offer why? It's just the I guess it's probably the culture down there in Newport.
John: [00:20:37] Yeah, it was definitely the culture. We got paid, but it was definitely the culture at this new shop. Yeah, they grind and show up at nine. And then, I mean, some days I wouldn't leave till 11 or 12. So it was definitely like a culture shock experience. But at the same time, like I should, I should have been expecting it. Coming into it?
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:21:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what most of the industry is like.
John: [00:21:03] Yeah, no, I hear it. Yeah, it is not
Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:21:09] An easy two years. That's why I say if you go straight to work somewhere, if deep, it's not the end of the world. Like you can actually maybe enjoy your life for four in your twenties, early 20s. But yeah, the point is like, I think you should go for it because I think having that, especially like after, you'll be really shocked. If you do get in into banking within one to two years, there's a huge demand, even if you don't go to like biocidal private equity or hedge funds. There's still a huge demand for your services from like startups, from all these other from Corp Dev Shops, corporate M&A because they know that if you went through that kind of grinder and did those 80 to 100 hour weeks for two years and you survived and you did well and like your second year analyst, you're super in high demand because they know you're going to be like even if you drop down like sixty five hours, 70 hours, which is a lot in corporate America, like you're going to feel like it's vacation after your two years. Oh yeah. You know what I mean?
John: [00:22:06] Yeah, you'll be living the sweet life for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:10] Yeah, yeah. So point is. For this stuff, yeah, I would change the template a little bit. I think overall it's looking good, I think. I'm just looking at this like wing AI Technologies business strategy, if you could like, maybe drop those two, it's the same thing with finserv and then try to beef up this new internship you have as fast as possible. Do you have any transaction? Have you been put on anything yet?
John: [00:22:39] Excuse me, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:40] Two transactions already for the new one in the fall.
John: [00:22:43] Yeah, it's just kind of like a tirade of things going on right now. Yeah, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:48] Awesome. So, yeah, definitely put those and then reduce the other ones. Ok, sounds good. If you have to even I kind of like the G League, Detroit Pistons fans sort of thing because a lot of guys didn't enjoy the sports aspect of it. So you may want to keep that, but just try to trim it. Yeah, I mean, that third bullet ensured quality assurance, development, application use cases. It's, you know, it's good, but it's not really needed. I definitely lean on the banking stuff. Maybe take a bullet away from your leadership on leadership experience. Is there anything else you're involved with, maybe with the radio station? Like, did you do anything there besides like being a deejay and you're into music?
John: [00:23:33] I just hosted a show weekly and then after that, they kind of like. Push me over to power and sex, and that's just how it happened, I was VP of the club basketball for a year. I had that on my résumé for a while, but didn't think that was too.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:53] Yeah, it's a club basketball. I mean, it's get too much credit for it, but that's all right at that intersection. I think you'll be in pretty good shape. So the other stuff, just for this session, it'd be great to just see what else was going through here. So I do like a little social media thing is good. Your Facebook is totally private, which is awesome. Keep it that way. Do you have any inside my best? Any Instagram? Whatever. Just be careful. All that stuff. Twitter. You know what I mean? Make sure it's on private and or, like you say, very like you're not super controversial about anything. Okay, this is good. Your LinkedIn looks good. Maybe just add a little bit of color on what you're doing. The experience, I mean, don't get in trouble pending and use the code names or whatever just to get more the skill set in here, like financial modeling really kind of try to do that. What I would like to see here is you have over 500 connections, which is great. Tell me about, well, let me see what else. See, just in terms of social media, I think you're the picture. I think you could do a better job with the picture. Okay. I think it's a little busy in the background. Maybe clean it up a little bit and it kind of blends in with the back. You pop a little bit more. Okay. But yeah, make sure. Try to get a good, genuine smile there.
John: [00:25:19] I know I always get crap from my smile. It's not the best. I know it's not the prettiest.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:24] No, no, no. But like even more, more zoomed in. So like you can see you like you seem like you're kind of like leaning back. You're like, kind of like, Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, just like, have a big smile on your face, you know, not a shit-eating grin, but like, you know what I mean? But what else? I think overall, it looks really good. Looks solid. Um, so, yeah, in terms of networking, tell me that you said you've been networking a little bit. Tell me a little bit about that. How is it going? I know Irvine has huge alumni, right? Obviously. Yeah. Well, not in finance. Not necessarily in
John: [00:26:01] Finance, right? Yeah, that's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:05] It's a big school. All right.
John: [00:26:06] Yeah, we're a pretty big school
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:10] Compared to my tiny little liberal arts college. And you guys are massive. But anyway, I mean, tell me what you've been doing. I assume alumni, what else?
John: [00:26:17] A lot of cold calling like second-year analysts and associates on LinkedIn and trying to find their email. So it's been a mix of like emails and LinkedIn, I guess with the young guys I've been trying. And then, like I say, you know, it's been reaching out to them on LinkedIn, and then I got like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:35] The older crowd, I'm sorry with the younger guy who's been doing what he broke up for a
John: [00:26:39] Second. I broke up. I've been reaching out to the younger guys via LinkedIn and to the older guys through email. Got it. So it's been a mix. Just trying to reach out to as many people as possible. I've been having all my Google calendars. I have like initial follow up, second follow up and then I guess like a monthly follow up after that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:01] So are you keeping track of it anyway, besides your calendar? Are you keeping track of it anywhere else?
John: [00:27:07] No, I have like a Google-like shop like, yeah, I like to like it's really messy of names and people I've been reaching out to. But other than that, like I've been relying on my Google calendar pretty heavy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:20] Yeah, I definitely push you towards using some email tools that might help you. The problem is you, like you said, you're doing some of the outreach online done. So you kind of have to have both. But there's a networking template. You can use Excel or you could probably do the same type of stuff in Google Sheets where you have named initial outreach date and then basically have conditional formatting where it turns red. Gotcha. Like yellow, right, if it gets too stale or like after two weeks and have certain things in there where you. You have, say, five 500 people you reached out to, like how many people have you reached out to like analysts, let's say, in the last over the summer.
John: [00:28:04] Couple of hundred few hundred
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:05] Each request the connection first.
John: [00:28:08] No, I don't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:10] You had a short note, but once your hit rate on those,
John: [00:28:14] I would say a little over 50, maybe sixty-five. And then after that, I mean, if they don't reply after that, sometimes they connect and they don't reply. For whatever reason, then I'll reach out to them a week later and I'll send them.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:27] But you can. You can get their email once you're connected to them.
John: [00:28:31] Yeah, it should be on the yeah profile now that you mention it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:35] Do you do that at all? Yeah. No. So no. So that's OK. So like, you know, dude, like, I know you're super busy. Like, it just takes a lot of time and it's another job in and of itself. So and now you have you're going to school plus this. But I think doing half-hour a day, at least of this is really going to be like, this is not the thing you should be letting go or slowing down on. This is the thing you should be doubling down on. More than anything, you know, you're in pretty good shape. Once you do those little changes, it's going to be even better shape. You have other transaction experience like you're going to be check a lot of boxes. So like you need to be in front of these people when that intern. Shit like literally right now, when that engine says no and takes another job and they're looking for a lateral hire like you need me right now getting into some interviews. Gotcha. Ok, so like right now, it should be. Like, hey, just reaching out to give you an update. I'm working again on another IV internship this fall through while I'm working through school or they've been on a couple of deals were would love to just pick your brain, did it out or. That's for the people you've talked to. Like, give them a little update. Like, you know, if there's still love to talk about, you know, what's it like at XYZ Company with you if you have a few minutes, blah? Or how is the yield looking on the summer analyst? And they'll be like, Sorry, dude, it's all full. They'll probably most of them will be like, Sorry, it's awful, but I'll keep you in mind. But then if you throughout the year, if you keep being like, Hey, hey, and all of a sudden business starts taking off like shit, we need another account and you're kind of our top of mind like, Oh, I know this kid, he looks pretty solid, blah. That's the thing he's like. You don't want to like, go stale for five months. Yeah, because like right now through nine months is like, that's your game.
John: [00:30:28] Yeah, that's all I got right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:29] It's all you got. So. And as he gets closer and closer, it's less and less likely like now is you're kind of like highest chance time off of getting some interviews. Mm hmm. So what I'd say is like, double down on that, like you have what? You're starting school in three days. The next three days you should as a full course load to
John: [00:30:52] It's considered a full time, but it's on the lighter end. Yeah, I did that specifically just because of the internship I have.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:58] But yeah, yeah. And how many hours you expected to work at the internship during the year?
John: [00:31:04] Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday is going to be like half days and then Fridays will be a full day.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:10] So that 20 plus hours. Yeah, you're going to be brutal are you have to work the weekend at all?
John: [00:31:18] Uh, yeah, I mean, if Associate comes in, he's like, hey, like I need an extra hand, like, yeah, me and the other intern will probably come in, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:26] Can this potentially turn into a full time? I'm sorry you broke up,
John: [00:31:35] So sorry about that. The office is pretty small and they only hire as an as need basis. So what I'm trying to do is hopefully it all goes well by the end of my internship and then request them like. Request me to move to the L.A. office because they're not going to hire out the customs office.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:53] Got it. But are there other interns at the L.A. office?
John: [00:31:57] No, I don't think so for the school year.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:59] That's good. That might give you a little in. Are the MDS or the senior people there close to the senior people in L.A.?
John: [00:32:07] Oh yeah, actually the principal or the like, I guess the head honcho of our office, he actually started the investment banking arm of the middle market firm in that. So like, he is well-connected in the firm.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:19] Ok, that's big then.
John: [00:32:21] That's huge. I'm going to try to get one on one with them as much as possible. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:25] Ok. Great, man. So, yeah, I mean, obviously kick ass there. I mean, that's important, right? Yeah. But then after that, I would say even behind your head of your schoolwork is, is you're not working is your LinkedIn strategy and kind of trying to organize that a little bit better? So what I was going to say is that I didn't get to it, but like, you need a tool, whether it's an email on, I don't know, Outlook or Gmail. So like there's a tool called right inbox, there are tons. It doesn't matter what, there's tons out there. It's called right inbox. So all right, inbox. Yeah. And so basically all it allows you to do is you can put in automated follow-ups. So if you send an email and you can put like one week on it, and if the person doesn't reply, it pops the back top of your inbox again as unread.
John: [00:33:13] Oh, OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:14] And then you're not like, Gee Cal, you're not having like 40 things in your Gmail. Like if you have three hundred of these things going on, there's no way you can keep track in Gmail, but it's in your inbox. And all of a sudden, every morning you have like 10 new things, pop up to the top. You know, that's time for those. 10 Let me hit them again, and you just get in the habit of clearing that out every morning and doing that outreach again.
John: [00:33:37] Yeah, that's huge.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:39] Yeah. So right inbox, I think, is a really good tool to use if you don't want to like. I think I think at this point, like building a whole spreadsheet with the color-coding, it might be too overkill, like you don't have time. So I think try to get as many things into email. So all the outreach, like all the people that have ignored you on LinkedIn, but they've connected with you, get their email, and then like, let's work on like the specific actual email you're going to send them.
John [00:34:04] Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:05] Yeah. And there's another thing Hey, let me show you. Let me show you my can. You can you see my screen? Yeah, I can see it. Let me show you an example. So when I like go into, um, let me see here. So like, we had a hack attempt last night just as an example on GW. So. So, yeah, so like, for example, I can go here hit a reminder. I have like all of these defaults, so I can remind me an hour, four hours tomorrow morning, three days, five days, one week, three weeks. And so like, oftentimes I'll be like, oh, I'm in a week, I'm too busy. This week, I can put in notes as well here the private note to myself that they can't see. Just to remind myself to have a call like boom, whatever during the mean. So my point is like, this tool is. And then so like, let's say I reply and I'm like, Thanks. Thanks, Khalid. Thanks, Khalid. Um, and then I want to add, you know, I can add templates here. Mm hmm. So like you can quickly pull in templates, boom, boom, boom. You add a reminder. So in three days, remind me again and hit, you can even send later.
John: [00:35:11] Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:11] So it really allows you to you can have like recurring things where like every. I wouldn't do that to in person, it'll look like a robot doing. But definitely do the reminders so it pops back up in your inbox. Got it! Ok, so like consolidating all of your networking into like one email, and then you can even tag them like use tags, use your folders. So move to I have like all of these specific folders. So like under Wall Street, I have advertising affiliates, writers, meetups, conferences, tax, corporate info, database subscriptions, defined benefit, all the stuff family office database, financial modeling courses. So you can see, like I would definitely do stuff like maybe you do yours, like under a networking folder and then under that you have specific thing like Alo Basketball, Game of Thrones. I don't know. I'm just throwing out different things like radio people, whatever your interests are, you know what I mean? And just try to find people under those like or you could do something like IBM Iby Associates, you know, West Coast, East Coast. Figure out a figure out like a method or an organizational tool that allows you to kind of like. Just bucket them a little bit better. So you kind of have an idea of how you should be reaching out to them, like are they super senior? Do they have common interest stuff like that?
John: [00:36:30] Ok, got it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:31] But I would definitely get something like this. There's other tools. There's one called Boomerang. There's this right inbox, but there's other ones. It's super, super useful because then it doesn't fall through the cracks. Like, right now, you're probably like super busy. You're at the internship, you're reaching out to like specifically. I don't know how many people like you already connected over 500 people. So like, you're doing something right, but at the same time, like. You want to be able to scale that way up and not and not then become disorganized and not follow up.
John: [00:37:05] Yeah, I guess that's been the hardest part about networking or just staying organized.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:10] Yeah. So I think that tool would really help you because you don't have to even keep a sheet. You just have to know that, hey, I will not mark this email unread until I followed up. Ok. Like every morning, I get a flow of like, look, I have 400 emails at eight a.m. you'll see. Look at this. But we're all these are reminder emails, right? So it's like, I don't let that go. I either have to reset a reminder on it or like if I don't have time to get to it, that's fine. But I don't let it. I don't just like, read it. Forget, I either reset a reminder on it. So I followed up the next day or the next week. Or if I'm like shit, I just need to push this. I'm too busy. I just push them all out. That's fine. But don't let it just disappear. Don't read it and then forget, OK.
John: [00:37:55] Make sense and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:57] Just get in that habit. And then I think you'll actually be much better at actually following up consistently. When somebody doesn't respond to you, you follow up within a week, then you follow up with like, say, two weeks later. After that, I don't know what your what's your pattern right now?
John: [00:38:11] It's initial one week, two weeks, four weeks.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:16] So in between the gaps are so a one at one week a week, do another one week later and then you wait for weeks.
John: [00:38:24] Wait, I wait two more weeks, so it'd be like a four week mark. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:28] Can you do a third follow up?
John: [00:38:31] It's kind of like up in the air, like I have really say consistent after that point. That's my other downfalls. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:38] Ok, well, don't worry about it, and don't be too hard on yourself. I know you're busy. So yeah, I think over the summer it sounds like you did do some good networking and stuff like that. How many people have you been able to meet up with in person?
John: [00:38:50] I made a San Francisco trip to meet with guys at UBS Effed Partners and corporate finance. And that's been the extent of, I guess, like face
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:03] Like five of them.
John: [00:39:05] Yeah, it would be. Yeah. Other than like the trip to San Francisco, most of my face time has just been down here with D.A. Davidson, obviously. B. Riley Roth. And then I've been meaning to make an L.A. trip, but it just hasn't happened yet.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:22] Yeah, I mean, L.A. is right there, so it's easy. But like L.A. also isn't the biggest market. That's true. That's OK. I mean. It's fine. New York may be a long shot for you to get over to while you're doing like an internship and all this stuff. Yeah. That being said, I wouldn't just limit yourself to West Coast. Ok. Do you have any time? Would you ever consider going East Coast?
John: [00:39:43] Yeah, definitely. I understand. I got to take what I can get right now. So I was reaching out like one of my, I guess. This guy reach out to. He's kind of been mentoring me as well. He was at pWt quarterfinals in Chicago, and he's really, well network there. So he's been trying to like link me up with people in Chicago, so I'm starting my networking out there as well. Even though it's not the biggest market as well, but it's just another shot to get. I think it's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:08] Bigger than I think it's bigger than life or finance. So really? Yeah, Chicago, it's pretty big. Yeah, Chicago has a lot of banks. You go there that whole network. I mean, LA is much bigger, a bigger city, but Chicago, I think. Pretty massive in terms of banks. La is like I think San Francisco is much bigger in terms of like actual investment banks and this whole peninsula area. I'm in the Bay Area. You know, tech, obviously, it's really big.
John: [00:40:35] Yeah, definitely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:38] So that's a good idea, I mean, if you can, if you can make those trips out there. I don't know how you would do it, but like long weekend, you said you're not working on Mondays, right?
John: [00:40:48] Yeah, I just have class Mondays. But obviously I feel like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:51] I can feel like you could fly in on a Sunday. Night stays. Crashing somebody's couch or like a cheap RV and. The next morning, if you line up like 20 coffee chats, 10 coffee chats, the whole day in Chicago could be really that could be a productive $500 spent.
John: [00:41:12] Yeah, actually. My girlfriend is visiting like one of her best friends in Chicago and like a month and a half. So maybe I could just ride along hopping her suitcase. But no, definitely like I thought about going with her. I feel like that'd be a good opportunity, not just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:24] Like if she's going x month. That means you need to put in a lot. Be like, that's the perfect intro to everyone in Chicago. Hey, I'm coming to town on guitar. You know, it'd be great to just, you know, take, you know, 10 minutes of your time. Buy you some coffee, you know?
John: [00:41:44] Ok, I'll definitely do that. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:47] Yeah. Try to get some people on the calendar.
John: [00:41:49] Ok? Sounds good. Yeah, I'll definitely buckle down on that right now,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:52] Because if you can do that, I mean, maybe you just keep your search to Chicago, L.A. stuff that's enough. I feel like that's going to keep you busy.
John: [00:42:01] Ok? Yeah, I'll definitely do job.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:04] I a lot more jobs in New York, but a lot more competition too.
John: [00:42:08] Uh-huh. I hear you. Yeah, I feel like I guess most people like one of the guys I interned with all the summer from Berkeley. Actually, we were talking like what we wanted to do after. And he says he said he just wants to go straight to New York like he doesn't want. He does not want to do be in S.F. or anywhere else like he buckling down on New York. And that's it for him. Yeah, like, right? I mean, I mean, going to Berkeley is definitely a bit like a good bet for you, but I feel like they're more heavily recruited, S.F..
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:34] Of course. Yeah. I mean, good for him. I mean, hopefully it works out for him.
John: [00:42:40] I think he just got an essay offer. He was a junior or he's an incoming junior, and I was a I'm a year older than him, so he just got an essay off of the walls.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:48] Nice. Nice. He's happy.
John: [00:42:50] Yeah, he's definitely happy. We just we were just on the phone yesterday and be like, Hey, I'm coming to town like I have another Super Day, but I just wanted to tell you I got the offer to Wells. Yeah. And that's like, I was so happy for him because I don't know why, but Welles was like his dream. So. Like, super stoked for him. Yeah, it just gives me more motivation to keep ongoing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:11] Nice, man. Cool. So like, it sounds like you're on the right track. How many people do you think is realistic to reach out to? Can we set some goals here,
John: [00:43:22] Too, in terms of Chicago or in terms of like holistically?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:26] Yeah, I'm trying to think like what you should prioritize. I'm a little bit like because your girlfriend's going there and you're thinking, maybe going with her next month. I'm kind of thinking, maybe you should shift to that over the next three weeks.
John: [00:43:37] I would say it's a month and a half. I can ask you again, but I think it's like mid-November.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:41] Ok, so it's a way out. Yeah, yeah, I want to like. You know, to be honest, I didn't do enough research on this, but L.A. banks, I don't know how many seats there are. But like you may actually not, my guess is USC is your biggest competition. Uh-huh.
John: [00:43:58] Usc, UCLA and USC.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:59] Yeah, there's gonna be some kids there that really want banking. So like, you're going to be at a disadvantage there, but like your resume is strong. So it's all about just getting in front of people. It's like you should definitely try to increase the number of people you're meeting face to face. Ok? Over the next couple of months, like these from now until November is actually really important, like by the time November rolls around, it's really late. Yeah, I hear people are like already in the new year because it's like Thanksgiving and then the holidays. I mean, they
John: [00:44:27] Start slowing down.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:28] Yes, you're slowing down. So like recruiting is like basically wrapped up within. I mean, for most places, already is wrapped up, but like for smaller middle market shops, they still may be looking to fill a couple of seats here and there. And so that's kind of your best that's your best bet. Like if you get into like a Harris Williams or a Blair or something in Chicago would be awesome. I'd see that as a super, super awesome success story because those banks are awesome, too. Like their great work, it's not like underway. It's more like 70. And like, the culture is really, really good there. That's like, I think you'd actually enjoy it and they support you, like actually transitioning out. People always make a joke. I don't know. I don't know if undergrads like the Harris Williams guys. They all go to bat for you. It's like a big joke. Everyone's like, Oh yeah, they go to bat for you. It's like if you look at the forums of like Harrison Williams, you'll see you'll notice like everyone makes that joke. It's just like, it's like, Yeah, they go to bat, they go to bat for you. Everyone just keeps that phrase.
John: [00:45:24] It was pretty funny, but it's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:26] It's like they developed that reputation because if they really do support their analysts, that's awesome.
John: [00:45:31] That's great to hear. Yeah, I'll definitely look into them. I know I have jotted down on my list, but yeah, yeah, I just haven't gotten around to it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:39] So, yeah, trips planned. These notes are wrong in Chicago. I'll put s off, maybe go back up to SF if you can, but I really focus since you're going to be going to Chicago. I'd really focus on people around you to make it easier on yourself. And if you're struggling, like if you already hit up every single L.A. banker. And like you've gone through that in the next couple of weeks, then yeah, branch out to safer. Okay. Another trip up here, because that's obviously much easier. That's like a forty-five-minute plane ride, you know?
John: [00:46:08] Yeah, it's very easy. Yeah, very doable to.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:12] Cuomo, OK. Anything else questions you have like I know you were with the internship and stuff like that with the financial modeling. Tell me a little bit about that. Like how can we help?
John: [00:46:22] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:23] Do you have time to even like drill on that stuff?
John: [00:46:26] Yeah, that's like what I'm thinking like, I don't even know if that's going to really like, I don't know
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:33] What type of models are you doing like mergers. Although it was.
John: [00:46:38] Yeah, it was. I've done a DC app like the interview went for this bank, specifically those initial call first round in person. Second round with another analyst. And then they gave me a case study to work on for a week. And then after that, I came in to talk to the associate about the case study through and through. And then that later that day, I got the offer. But in the case study, all they really required was DCF comp and president analysis, yep, yep. Yeah. So that's all I did. And like really in terms of my technical studying, it's really just been out of various books and just online reading. It hasn't really been like modeling Prep, but the other intern. This is where I was like sweating at the desk. The other intern had like a sell-side internship this summer, and he actually bought the five hundred dollar like Wall Street prep guide or modeling course, so he had a lot of experience over the summer. So when we came at the desk and he was like, he handed us the parameters, assumptions and he was like, Hey, like, I'm looking at this. That's not like, I want a merger model like you guys started on it. He was like flying through it. And I was just like, I was looking at him. I was like, Hey, like every like a couple of seconds, I was like, Yo. So uses and sources like, what's that?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:04] Yeah, yeah. So I think I think you definitely need to close that gap for sure. Yeah, it's like it's going to make you more marketable, all that stuff. And plus it just makes you can you can put it on your resume. It looks good. It just screams banking, you know what I mean? So that's good. I would definitely do that.
John: [00:48:23] Yeah, I think I can definitely put in like hours at night or on the weekend.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:27] The hard part is now, you know, you're busy with networking, too. So it's like,
John: [00:48:31] Oh yeah, go ahead. So that's one question I want to ask. So like coming into the like, so essays when they recruit for Beeb's, I know they have like crazy, crazy, like good training processes or even like full time hires coming out. Do they require you to have modeling skills? I assume not so much for it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:52] The problem is, nowadays there's so much good self study out there that the interest of the interns do it anyways. So like it can make you look like an underperformer, relatively speaking, because like you said, the guy said, the guy or gal sitting next to you are like racing through excel. And so like, it's kind of like, it's like you just it's like, you're A. Right? You've got to put it's like table stakes. You've got to just play. You have to have that.
John: [00:49:17] Yeah, makes sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:18] And so like the good thing is, you got that seat even without that and like, you're able to do the DCF, you're able to do some you. It sounds like you you're not like completely lost. Like you understand trading comps, precedent transactions, you understand how to do a DCF. The other stuff, it's not that hard, man. It's just it's just reps. It's just getting super fast and excel and ripping your mouse out of your keyboard and forcing yourself to do the quick keys like just really, it sounds stupid, but like it's super fast and excel. Gotcha. Yeah. And excel because people notice those things like and also notices you like using your mouse to, like, realign stuff or like center stuff. They're going to be like just shaking their head like this like or if they come by and you're like playing your keyboard, you're on your keyboard like it's a piano and you're just like in the sheet, the spreadsheets moving. Yeah. Notice people notice. And it's like, OK, he's put in the hours like he's done a hundred hours of modeling before or he's still in his first 10 hours, you can tell, you know, it's just like playing an instrument. You just got a drill. There are some Excel exercises we have. I don't know if you've seen them just like a formatting exercise in the debris. So like, welcome email sequence, I can shoot that over to you after. It's like just a little drill to help.
John: [00:50:35] Yeah, I'll be super helpful.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:37] Yeah, I'll send you that. But like conceptually, you still need to know sources and uses. You didn't know specifically how to do a merge model, at least conceptually. You're not that fast so that you're not lost. Like in terms of like, OK, where do I even start? Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely feel. Don't feel bad. There's a lot of I didn't even know what banking was like my junior year, but this was the problem is that's 2002. This is twenty nineteen. Yeah. Everybody, everybody knows it. There's Wall Street, Oasis. There's all the self-training, the self-study, training. We have the interview courses. So like, that's like and we'll do this on our future sessions. We're going to focus a little bit more on your interview stuff. So we'll do some mock interviews and stuff like that in terms of like, tell me your story because I want to make sure that's airtight so that you're good on the technical like you understand conceptually what's going on, even if you don't, even if you're not like a pure expert yet on the financial modeling. And I have. No confidence that you'll get there, just you clearly have the smarts. There's just about putting in the reps, man. It's about doing a little less pickup basketball, unfortunately, this fall.
John: [00:51:45] That's okay, that's okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:46] No, no, no, no, no. Look, I think basketball, that's a great release. Don't stop working out because they go crazy. Yeah. So, you know, do your our, you know, whatever our day, that's fine. But like.
John: [00:51:58] No more. Yeah, this quarter, I kind of like pretty much told myself it's going to be airtight in terms of the internship school, and then all this
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:09] Networking, you could do 40 hours in networking. You could literally do 40 hours in networking a week.
John: [00:52:13] Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:16] It's like when, if and if you graduate, you don't have a job. That's your job. Your job is going to be networking and trying to find a job. So that will quickly become not 40 hours, that will become 60 to 70 hours. And it's a grind. It's a grind. So. You know, if you don't put in the time now and land the job, that's going to end up being your job full time. Yeah. Very soon after. So like. You got prioritize right now, school work kind of comes third.
John: [00:52:43] Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:44] Makes sense. I think I think an internship is. I mean, I don't want your grades to go down to a. That's the problem. It's like you can't just completely blow it off. You've got to go to class, you've got to study for your exams and do like get at least, you know, B A's and B's. You don't want your GPA dropping like three, three or something. You don't want to be like dropping C's in there and messing up your GPA.
John: [00:53:06] Definitely not. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:07] So definitely keep your team over three-five, if you can, would do what do whatever it takes to do that. But if you get a couple of b's and you mix it with some A's and it doesn't drop your team down enough, that's OK.
John: [00:53:19] I hear you so like it'd be like networking and studying technical and modeling first, then internship. And then I
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:27] Would say internship first, because if there's an outside chance, you can convert that to full time in L.A.. Yeah, that's your ticket. So like you already, you have a seat technically. And even though they don't take the, you know, they're really small and they don't necessarily take the kid every year. If you do a really good job, I just don't know. Like is that other kid is too far ahead of you? Jeremy, in the internship where you feel like, is he gunning for the same thing?
John: [00:53:51] I know he's recruiting for a lot of banks in San Francisco, too, but he did mention, like, if something opened up here, he would take it. Of course. Yeah, definitely. But I'm not sure if he's looking towards L.A. like he hasn't mentioned that yet, and that's something he's, you know, he's one out of thousands of kids that you're competing with. So don't feel like, Oh, I got to just be like, You got to improve on yourself. The other thing is, don't underestimate. You feel like intimidated about the modeling that can be learned very, you know, within 50 hours of training, you can be up to where he like, don't think it's like a year. Yeah, to get you there. Like, you can get there pretty fast if you drill and you're actually serious about drilling, like if you play, if you play an excel as much as you do play pickup basketball, you'll actually you would actually become really good.
John: [00:54:38] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:40] You know, within a few weeks, I bet. So definitely. Yeah, I'm trying to think priorities, man. I kind of I kind of lean on your networking because that's going to open the most doors you're going to hear about the most kind of off-cycle opportunities through that. And there's so many kids now that are doing it. You kind of have to be there front and center. Yeah, I hear you. So I kind of put networking one. I put internship a very close second, though, and then I put like in along with your internship that includes training and excel and financial modeling so that you're looking good to your associate or your analyst, whoever you're working for and then classes after that.
John: [00:55:25] I think I just wrote it down once and then
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:26] And then and then, yeah, say you can apologize to your girlfriend and see you on your social media
John: [00:55:33] Buddies. I wouldn't know. I'll give you. I'll give her your numbers so she can yell
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:37] At you directly. Yeah, exactly perfect. You can blame me. Tell her, Look, if I get a good job, then you know we're set and you can come. I mean, do you know where she's going to be?
John: [00:55:47] Yeah. So she's also in the premed route. She just took her MCAT, so she'll be taking a gap year after this year, and then she'll be applying during that gap here and also working, probably as a scribe or volunteer. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:03] So she can go wherever and kind of go with you. Is that the plan?
John: [00:56:06] Yeah, hopefully. We've been talking about it. Hopefully, whether I get a job down in Southern California or San Francisco or Chicago, even she'd come with me for that first year. Nice. Yeah, because I mean, she could I feel like in medical or as a volunteer scribe if you could find something pretty easily? And then it's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:26] Like, she's more like, Just tell me where you're going.
John: [00:56:28] Yeah, exactly. She's like, just waiting on it. She's like, Come on, like, hurry up. I'm like, I'm trying. Like, Yeah, it's hard. It's harder than you think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:36] Yeah, it is especially coming from Irvine, man. It's very hard. It's very hard. And the odds for. The odds are stacked against a man like I remember when I was in your seat coming from Williams, a small liberal arts college, I was like, Oh, I got, you know, I got this and this was an oh one. Oh, two like when the world was melting and I still was overconfident. I don't know what it was like. I don't because like I had always worked my ass off and done well, like in school and done well, you know, done OK in sports. And I was just used to working like, why wouldn't somebody take me like, I want to work my ass off? Yeah, and like the world. But then all of a sudden the world started melting and like everyone was canceling their on-campus recruiting like at least we had on-campus recruiting. And it was one of the last. But it was a problem, man. Like, I think as a young guy who's like, used to have any success, you can oftentimes, especially if you're like good with people and you're comfortable communicating, like you're comfortable communicating, you're comfortable sitting in a room. It's obvious you're like, you'd be a good interviewer. You run the risk significantly of not of under-prepping, thinking that that's going to carry you through because you're comfortable enough. Like, like me, like, I was like thinking, I can go in there and not wing it, but like, OK, I do a couple of mock interviews. I'm good, you know? No, like, I got so much better by the end. By my 20th interview, I was like, shit. If I had had that, if I was like that on by my first, I would have had like three offers. Instead, I had like I was hanging on to the like. I got like one of the last offers. I worked as an analyst at Rothschild and like, it was one of the last interviews and there's a reason I think it's there's a reason. It was one of my last interviews that I got to offer because by that point, like I was just super laser focused and knew exactly how to answer the technical, knew exactly how to answer the so I wasn't ready, man, like I just wasn't ready. In the first, I had an interview with Goal and I made it a Super Day, but I wasn't. I wasn't at that level. That was my technical super polish. And now even coming from a liberal arts college like there back then, they wouldn't expect you to like, know all the technical now. They'd expect you to know that it's crazy. Yeah. So like, you know, I think you're in good shape. I think you're sharp kid. I think you're going to get there. It's just a question of like, it's a race man. It's a race now. It's a race of priorities because you're so busy with this whole internship. I think the fall internship is almost like it's a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing because it allows you to put another couple. Transactions on your resume allow you to. It allows you to kind of reemphasize banking is what you want to do. So that's really, really solid. It's a little bit of a curse because you could think that's enough. You know what I mean? Where like, you don't have to be really polished on the interviews or like the networking, you can kind of slow down on like, I want to keep that fire were, like the networking has to keep like, go full steam ahead and you need to do some. I think we're going to really focus heavily on the mock interviews. So when you get those few shots and you into the case, we're like, we have these sessions set up. Where it's once a month, we're talking and you're doing these little video updates in between. If it comes down to that, we need to do more sessions upfront because it's like crunch time. All of a sudden you have an interview. Let's just hop on the phone and do a mock interview. I'm with it. Yeah. It's like this could be it your next three or four months. You're the only shot you get until you graduate. So like, I don't want to be like, Oh no, we can only talk once a month. Like, let's just actually get you ready so that they only have two interviews. Lisa, you may only have two or three interviews that are good at good shots or good shots. I hear you. So I want to make sure that your super-polished going into those like your technical or you just nail them. And then the and then more importantly, like, you're really likable and you're fit is really on point.
John: [01:00:21] Mm-hmm. Makes sense. Yeah, I hear you. It's going to be a grind. It's going to be good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:26] Yes. Two questions. Do you have any questions in terms of like next steps? What do you want to what you're thinking?
John: [01:00:33] I did have one. So it's going to be oh, I know she forgot her name, I'm sorry. I mean, saying, yeah, she won't me saying she'd drop something in my so account.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:49] Yeah, it's probably the course's interview courses.
John: [01:00:51] Ok. But I think she also emailed those to me and I downloaded those.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:54] Yeah, you can grab them either from the email I would. I would grab the ones from the profile because those might be a little outdated, the ones on the that she emailed, they're from a different system. Ok, so just log in and then go to your my profile on the bottom on the left under your image, there'll be like links to download them.
John: [01:01:13] I see my profile.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:16] They should email that you're logged in to. It's like the same as the and by the way, we're releasing a new whole learning management system in the next month. So it's going to be badass. You're going to have all the modules and lessons right there. It'll be much easier to study. You won't have to just use the PDF. The email is all different. So do I have to create a new account then? Um, no, well, what email did you? Were you emailing her with? Uh, oh, yeah. So you might want to, like login, make sure you're logging with that email. That's probably why she'd attached it to. If you want her to put it on another email, that's fine. You can just send an email, be like, Hey, do you mind putting it on this email or this account?
John: [01:01:57] Yeah, OK, I'll ask her to do that. And then you also mentioned reporting my resume to the W-4 so template. Is that also on my account or
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:07] Yeah, I just do a Google search through my template. You'll find it. It's. It's I think it'll be the be one, yeah, here it is. I'll shoot this over to its forum slash investment banking resume template, and you should be able to download it. I'll send you the link.
John: [01:02:23] Ok?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:25] Now, let's give you a little extra space for like, especially with this new ship coming in and the new transactions, you're going to need that.
John: [01:02:31] Hmm. Yeah, I hear you. Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:33] Sounds good. And less is more, man. Don't try to pack it all. It definitely sent it to me. Once you're once you kind of have done it and I'll take a quick look so that we can kind of keep. You can start using that.
John: [01:02:45] Okay, sounds good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:47] But yeah, I don't think there's no there's no glaring issues on your résumé right now. I think it's pretty solid. So yeah, what else? Yes, I mean, just keep. I think those priorities are the key. And then if you do, you know, find out about, have you heard anything about like specific lateral spots open or like any spots that weren't filled with summer analysts?
John: [01:03:09] Nothing, right? Not yet, no.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:03:12] Have people said like, I think all the offers are out and accepted, right?
John: [01:03:16] Yeah, most people said like, Oh, we're all booked up, like Lincoln International in L.A., like, I had a call with them a couple of weeks ago or one of their analysts who actually like leads the recruiting kind of funny that an analyst does that. But he said,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:03:28] That's more common than you think, man. A lot of people make the mistake of trying to reach out to like VP and MDS. Oftentimes, the analysts associates are like running the process.
John: [01:03:36] I mean, you're working with them, I guess more or less, a lot more than the NBS and veeps.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:03:41] Exactly.
John: [01:03:44] No, but I have all the priorities listed, I took all notes I ready and set to go. I think it'll be an exciting journey.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:03:51] Super yeah. I mean, I think like if we're running up into the wall of just there's no seats left. You just want to be around the hoop and be ready for when that one little seed opens up. And I think if it takes you going to an FLD program or even a tiny boutique bank like add a place, maybe that's not ideal. Maybe you do a little cold calling, but you have banking experience and you're working and maybe making a crap salary and hating life. It's still better than being unemployed.
John: [01:04:22] Yeah, I hear you like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:04:25] And then plus, once you're already there and you can keep hanging around the hoop, you keep networking like if you can get into whatever area you want to live, whether it's L.A., Chicago, whatever it is. If you can get into a tiny boutique bank and get that experience, I had a podcast interview with a guy who. Two years, I mean, he had it bad, man, he was working for a guy that was just sounded awful, like paying him a thousand bucks a month. He was living like he was living in a shoebox, but he was getting deal experience. He was like doing reps. And so he was like and then he had like the associate title. And he finally ended up transferring to like a more reputable firm. But it took him took like two years. He had a different story, man. He came from. He came from India. He was like, literally. For his MBA program, he had never lived in the U.S., he had a really tough. You can imagine his accent was stronger. It was like, you're you've been here your whole life, man. Like, you have no excuse, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think it will be much easier for you if you make sure you just get the right experience, like work for free, if you have to, OK, like just live on ramen and whatever you have there like to be like mom and dad. But let me 10 grand is to survive on, you know, whatever it has to be. Yeah, if they can afford it to to make sure you're getting the right experience on your resume right out of the gate. Because, you know, as long as you're likable and you keep drilling, you get better financial modeling and you keep networking and you're likable, you're going to get reps at an interview, and then it's just about crushing an interview. And I can help you with that.
John: [01:05:55] Yeah, definitely. I'm all for it. So how would the timeline look like? I know right now these next couple of months is strictly I b, but I know you said like, oh, FP and rolls and tips like when we start looking at those or
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:06:09] Start hedging right now, man, I wouldn't get too late. So like, I would talk to anybody who's in Corp Dev Corp Finance Corporate M&A, I mean, that might be a kick-ass Career Corp M&A if you can find places like where you're actually doing deals. And by the way, if you're doing corporate M&A and you want to go to banking, that's an easy transition if you're actually doing transactions. So, yeah, I would look at startups. I would look at people in corporate and corp dev. Usually, the problem is they want people. They don't take kids right at undergrad. Usually, they want kids who've been through banking. So but still network with these people because they may know a lot of bankers.
John: [01:06:47] Mm hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:06:49] Don't look at just investment bankers, look at people who. From Irvine that may be working Corp Dev or Corp Fin.
John: [01:06:55] Mm hmm. Ok. Makes sense. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'll definitely do that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:06:59] I think it's important that you really focus on specific common interests. You don't just make it like email, everybody. Does that make sense?
John: [01:07:10] Yeah. Yeah. Having those similarities definitely helps when you're trying to, like, connect with the person. Yeah, I've had some pretty weird calls like I did not connect at all with the person, which yeah, I've learned my lesson. Oh.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:07:25] Anyways, see, I think that's it for now, man, let's just stay in touch, you know, let me know if something comes up, you're like, Hey, there's an interview coming up. I'm freaking out. Like, Let's definitely do. Let's definitely do a call. Then in a session earlier, even if it means we skip one later on down the road because I think I don't want you to not be prepped because we had some sort of strict schedule or anything like that.
John: [01:07:49] Yeah. I appreciate that. That sounds great. Hopefully, hopefully that does happen, you know?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:07:54] Yeah, yeah. And look, don't get discouraged if it doesn't like just I want you to build out that network. I want you to get that tool in place that you're actually getting more organized with your networking stuff like that. And then men, I want you to have like in your I call it my reminder cycle. I want you to be having at least like get up to like a hundred conversations, 100 emails out where you're like every week, you're like, Oh man, there's another set of reminders I got. I got emails, another 10 people, another five people, another 10 people. You know what I mean?
John: [01:08:23] I'm all for it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:24] Yeah, you'll be in better shape.
John: [01:08:26] Awesome. Everything's good at home. I know you said you lost your nanny for years.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:31] Yeah, it's been brutal. The last week was that's why I haven't shaved in like forever. I'm a wreck, dude. I haven't slept. Yeah, it's been a rough week. Last week was probably the hardest week I've had in a long time.
John: [01:08:44] So I can't imagine taking care of the kids and also running the business. Like, I'm sure it's a lot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:48] Yeah, that we're interviewing like crazy. So it's awesome.
John: [01:08:52] Yeah, I did see the job postings where the intern postings, that's yeah. Hopefully that all works out pretty well for you guys.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:58] Yeah, yeah. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. It goes well. I think we're doing we're doing a lot of things on Zillow with not just this show, we're launching a lot of other kinds of podcasts and shows and stuff. So I think it'll be good.
John: [01:09:10] That's awesome. Excited to see it all.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:09:11] All right, man, we'll chat soon. Good luck. Yeah. Keep me updated. Ok?
John: [01:09:14] Yeah, we'll do. Thanks, Patrick.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:09:16] Thanks, man. Thank you. Bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
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