WSO Podcast | E209: Struggles Breaking into IB as Older Candidate | Weekly Intern Meetup #9

Another interesting chat with our intern group.

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WSO Podcast Episode 209 Transcript:

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief Monkey. And this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:20] Paths and life in general. Let's get to it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:25] Another interesting chat with the interns. If you're interested in applying to the internship, please check out the show notes. There's a link right there. Enjoy everybody. We got a big group today starting to see. Happy June. Everyone's still kind of filtering in here. Hey, Brandon. Hey, Owen. Hey, Lucas. Jana Almont. I see some familiar names here. Mazin. Walter. I'm Anya. Let's see.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:05] Here. Smith.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:10] So I think we have. There's a lot of people come in. So this is, I think, going to be a record, I think because we're hitting the summer here in the States. I think we're going to have a. Attendees. I don't know what our if there's a limit, I don't think there's a limit on this room. So that's good. It's like 1000 people or something. So we're fine. You.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:37] Hey, Tanya.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:41] Soha Ali. I think I said hi to a lot of people, Lee Rahim. Okay, so let's get started, I think. So sorry about last week. I was in I was in Disneyland with the three kids, so I wasn't able to make it. Had a little vacation over Memorial Day weekend, but I'm happy to be here. I think we've had a lot of new people start. So very excited to welcome all of you. And just like the previous weekly, weekly meetings, I'd like to open it up just by seeing if anybody has questions specifically about the internship first and then we can once those questions are answered, we can kind of jump to career related questions, specifically around networking, interview performance, career paths, anything you guys or gals have have questions on so we can help. And it's useful because I'm more a little more US centric in the sense of I understand the stuff a little bit more here and Nabil is a little bit more. He's in UAE, so he has a little bit more of a international perspective than I do. So it's nice, a nice combination between the two of us. Usually. Usually we can have a somewhat knowledgeable answer for all of you, so. I appreciate you all joining. So just to start out. Does anybody have specific questions around the internship? I know we had some changes over the last few weeks. We've switched people from Hubstaff over to classify. If you don't know what I'm talking about, the hubstaff I find is probably because you just joined recently. Don't worry, it's clockwise all you need to know. But I know there was a little bit of confusion around that. It was just switching, going from one platform to another and then specifically focusing less on activity and more on just the output that everyone was putting out rather than just like ours and stuff like that. So that's been the major changes. Are there any questions around that? We have a hand up. Jana.

Intern 1: [00:03:45] Hello, everyone. Hello, Mr. Patrick. Hi. How are you? But I'm just going to ask I put in my Google phone that I'm going to start at six six. So basically, I should start my assignments and my tasks on six six, right? Correct. Because because I open the general office slack and I saw everything. But I, I was little bit confused, you know? So this is my first start, June.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:19] You start June 6th. What I would suggest is in the Slack group, there are like there's a section on how to get started, a guide right there. Click on that and just read through that carefully. And there's videos to help guide you through in terms of how to start and other stuff. And if you have additional questions, once you kind of review that, definitely reach out to us and we'll try to address them and make it more clear.

Intern 1: [00:04:40] Okay. Thank you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:41] No problem. Welcome. So on. You have a question?

Intern 2: [00:04:48] Yeah. Hi, Patrick. I was going to I was going to ask that we have like, we have to write 21 articles, right? So it's a 12 week internship and the timings are flexible. So like, if we can write one article in one week, we can write four articles in the next. Correct? So it was like that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:12] Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's fine if, if there's some flexibility. I'd warn though that if you're not putting the 15 hours per week in an appeal, if you have strong opinion on this, but if you're not putting the 15 hours per week, it starts building fast. If you try to save it for the last few weeks, it's pretty tough to do it all at once. So I wouldn't suggest kind of. Waiting six weeks, seven weeks, and then trying to put it all in the back half because it's going to be pretty it's going to be pretty tough to do it successfully.

Intern 2: [00:05:45] Thank you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:47] Yeah, no problem. Nabil, Do you agree or no?

Nabil: [00:05:50] Yeah, I think so. Yeah, but it's spread out from the start. But then it's like, you know, like college, right? Like people tend to push everything to the end and try to get stuff done better to avoid it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:01] Or you could get through it faster.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:03] Yeah, probably to go.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:04] Through it faster, get all the courses, and then actually have time to study them during the summer and then put that on your resume, which would look even better. Ibrahim How could I answer your question?

Intern 3: [00:06:17] Hello, Patrick. I was. I was just researching a couple of topics that I wanted to pursue as an article, but unfortunately my grandfather passed away two days ago and I was occupied with with everything regarding that that said that. So the last couple of days I wasn't able to give a lot of put a lot of effort in my research and my writings. I just wanted to notify you about that. And I wanted to ask you if we can find any published articles, just us to take feedback on, on what to write, how, what image types. Because I watched the videos and I saw the guidelines, and I just want to see a clear view on how to continue.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:09] I'm not sure I follow. I think you're asking, are there more specific examples of like how to continue rewriting?

Intern 3: [00:07:17] An example of a published article that you want us to publish the exact same type and way. Oh, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:25] I think Josh is usually posting articles that are going live into the chat. So if you look up at the history of the chat, you'll probably see some saying, Hey, thanks to XYZ intern who helped us get this live. And so you click through to there. Otherwise you can look in the sheet. There's specific links to articles that are that are marked as final done live. You could always look through there and get a sense of of what a final article looks like. That's usually helpful.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:07:54] Then you can get a sense.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:07:55] Of like of the quality of the writing, the sections, how we're doing bullet points, how we're trying to break it up and make it readable for for the readers and stuff like that.

Intern 3: [00:08:05] Okay. Thank you so much for your help. You're welcome.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:09] Christian. Christian, you have your hand up.

Intern 4: [00:08:15] Is that? Good morning, Patrick. Good morning. I had a question regarding recruiting cycles. So I'm in a dilemma if well, I'm just one year from graduating and I have the choice to. Well, one year. But however, I have just one term, a44 month term for duty like this. And I was wondering if what's the best time to. To look for jobs. Would it be best for find jobs in their recruiting cycle from September to December or from January to April? Taking into consideration that I would like to mostly find a job related to or in the investment management industry mostly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:07] Where are you located again? Remind me.

Intern 4: [00:09:08] I'm in Vancouver. In Canada? Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:13] If you only have one year, one year left coming up is basically your last year. I'd be looking through starting now in terms of interviewing for that because there are there are people who will be doing internships this summer that are getting full time offers for graduating. So I think what you should be doing is not not don't worry so much about the exact timing of when is more advantageous, but I'd say earlier is is always better to start like getting yourself into the interview process. So just so you can have reps in terms of getting better at interviewing, telling your story both on the behavioral and the technical stuff, I think is going to make you a better candidate. So you shouldn't. You're close enough now to graduating where you should be interviewing for full time positions right away when you go back to school.

Intern 4: [00:10:03] Right. Because my just a very quick context for I am actually starting a master's in management, the six months program on June of next year.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:15] So that changes things from.

Intern 4: [00:10:17] September to June. Exactly. Have that that that like eight months.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:23] So it's a master's September to June.

Intern 4: [00:10:25] Yeah. So I'm technically getting my undergrad in economics in May 2023.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:30] What are you doing that master's of management.

Intern 4: [00:10:33] It was initially because I wasn't that sure of what I really wanted to do, so I was just like, okay, you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:40] How much is that?

Intern 4: [00:10:42] Just a few thousand dollars. So that's. Yeah, Yeah. Okay. It's not like an MBA. Thankfully.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:48] You're spending. I was going to say, if you're spending 50,000 Canadian on that, I would try to talk, you know.

Intern 4: [00:10:53] No, no way. Yeah, that's crazy.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:56] Yeah. No, that's. That's not actually a bad place to hang out is getting a degree. If it's low cost, it allows you a little bit longer time to to not look unemployed and get get another crack at getting into recruiting cycles, like you said. But like much more important than how well you do there I think is going to be how well your networking starting this summer. And who you're talking to and just getting more specific about the type of fund you want to work for or the type of investment management you want to work for. So like, is it within an investment bank? Is it a standalone company? Is it asset management? What specific types of assets are you talking to? Stock equity bonds, options. Do you know what I mean?

Intern 4: [00:11:37] Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:37] Getting a little bit understanding about that. Or even if you're not really sure, being well versed in those different options so that when you're going into the interviews for a specific type of fund, you can at least make it look like you're more interested in that type of asset class.

Intern 4: [00:11:53] You're right. And in the more practical sense of like how what's the most common recruiting cycle for investment firms or traditional funds based on your experience, when do you see it's most like apart from summer, what are the most common seasons for?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:16] I think for management it's a little bit if you're talking like small hedge funds, it's totally random. It's whenever they need a C to fill it. If you're talking like larger, like institutional fidelity, like large asset managers, large investment managers where they typically have like these programs they put people through with like they're hiring so many thousands of people every year that it's like they they have like start dates like every month. So it just depends on what specifically specific types of programs you are. But I would focus less on like when's the best time? Because it doesn't matter when the best time is like you should be like trying to get into interviews now because you're you're done in a year.

Intern 4: [00:12:59] Right, Right. So even if I don't accept something like just as a practice, it's huge.

Intern 4: [00:13:04] That practice.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:05] Is so.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:06] Valuable.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:07] Okay. Like, so.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:08] Valuable. Like. Like interview for anything and everything. Even if you have no interest. Like, even those things that aren't exactly related to investment management. If you can get an interview just to talk about yourself and talk about your story because all interview is all it is, is selling yourself. So getting good at selling yourself is a skill in and of itself.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:26] Right?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:26] And so, like, you need to practice that live in a real setting, even if it's not as stressful because you don't really want it. It'll make you it'll make you better in the third, fourth, fifth interview you have. And then when you do have that one that you really want, you're going to be much more polished and more confident going into.

Intern 4: [00:13:43] Right. Certainly. Well then.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:44] But yeah, so yeah, I would just say don't focus on I would say start, start as soon as you can. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have to send your application.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:52] Everywhere.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:53] But it does mean you should be talking to people within the types of funds and types of firms you want to be working at now.

Intern 4: [00:14:00] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:01] I know it seems like a far a long time away year, but but if the more prepared you are and the more people you know within the companies that you're trying to get into, the more you're going to hear about openings in the fall, in the winter.

Intern 4: [00:14:16] Right. Thank you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:19] Yeah, no worries. Yeah. They may not even market the open jobs. So that's why talking so important. So let's see who else pany.

Intern 5: [00:14:29] Thanks for the invite. Actually, I have a little different profile than the usual ones. I have already have a working experience of 8 to 9 years, but I have been working as a consultant known as a not as any financial instrument or something. But I do want to switch my career and along with that I just attempted my CFA level three and I'm hoping to clear. So hopefully within two months I will have my CFA level together. I just wanted to discuss with you what is the best possible way where I can see my transition from individual industry to investment banking stream.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:11] Nabil, you want to take this one specifically about CFA, since we're talking to CFA level three, I know it's more investment banking, but go ahead.

Nabil: [00:15:19] Yeah, I mean, yeah, like I said, last last call, like I just met someone who's done engineering and then he did CFA and then he moved to investment banking as an associate. But then that's because he's like, I think if you're in like us, it's very defined. But if you come out like international, like the CFA might help if you can demonstrate knowledge because engineering people are generally looked up to, because they're generally considered to be like good with numbers and all of that stuff. So if you can somehow demonstrate that with your with your CFA and apply it to finance, like a lot of those open, like if it's IAB, then yeah, chances are lower. But then if you go into asset management and all of that stuff like, yeah, you could try for those ones. Oh, by the way, where are you based again?

Intern 5: [00:16:07] Right now I'm in India, but a few months back I was in UAE only.

Nabil: [00:16:12] Oh, okay. Yeah, you would have chances. I mean, I've recruiting is still up. B is down here because of the impending economic situation. But yeah, yeah, go about it. Like just they don't really care what your undergrad is. If you can demonstrate that you actually know finance and if you work somewhere and the typical usual stuff. Right. Go to an interview, leave a good impression, network meet people.

Intern 5: [00:16:41] To be really honest, I've been to interviews and I've been good at my interviews. They all say either two things. One, that I don't have a previous experience, which I say I know and that's why I want to start. And the second thing they say is that if we hire you, you will leave us very soon. And I tried everything to tell them that, No, I will not leave. They are not like it's a chicken and egg situation right now for me. And I just want to get out of this situation. Well, this.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:08] This internship will actually help. I think it'll help. I think it'll help show a little more. It'll just make your you want to on your resume, you should probably get a resume review. To be honest, if somebody who's gone from engineering to finance, you need to downplay your engineering as much as possible on there and and like just scream finance as much as possible. So like you should be featuring the financial modelling, you're studying this internship, any other finance related associations, you're part of the CFA like it should just be screaming, I want finance there. So there's less concern about that. Why are they saying you're going to leave?

Intern 5: [00:17:47] And because of the decision between because I started my career from UAE only and oil has a decision between 14 to 18. So I switch many jobs because of the recession. But they consider as if I am not a I am not a long time player. I try to tell them that it's not because of that is because of the market situation, which I had the most time.

Nabil: [00:18:10] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people are just going to assume that you're going to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:14] It's your longest tenure at a company.

Intern 5: [00:18:17] I grew in office.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:19] And when was that? At the beginning.

Intern 5: [00:18:21] No, just the last one then.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:25] I mean, I would almost one way you can kind of get around that. Are there any like similar companies that when you had to jump like because of the economic stuff? Are there any companies where you're doing similar roles?

Intern 5: [00:18:43] Almost in all the company. I was doing some levels with this previously somewhat investing. So in this role, in the sense of all of my companies before this, I'm involved in the side.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:56] Yeah. So like you could have one one job, one entry for all your engineering roles from 2014 to 18.

Intern 5: [00:19:04] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:05] And say worked at several middle market engineering business. So this is what you this is why you need a resume review because you need and your LinkedIn needs to be reviewed to you need somebody to make it. That's a that's great feedback. They told you we think you're going to leave because you need that's something that you should be able to get across that like this is something you really, really want and you understand that it's going to be 8100 hour.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:29] Weeks.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:29] Blah, blah, blah. You're ready to put in the work. You're not going to leave. This is this is where you want to build a career. And so that should come across if, you know, that's like a thing. But then more importantly, you're probably not getting as many interviews because if if they're picking that out from your resume or from your background, you should really try to like consolidate those the number of companies into like most like a generic entry in your engineering jobs and be like worked at that maybe don't mention the three or four maybe just mentioned to. Just according to this and then kind of highlight worked at this during primarily in these things you have like four bullets there under like that those for years. That's it. And you're really featuring these last two and a half years and the CFA and the financial modeling training and and kind of honing on that, I think that might help you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:26] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:28] Yeah, but you need it. You need to come across that. That's the. If that's the feedback. Sorry, the first feedback was you may leave us. The second feedback was what?

Intern 5: [00:20:37] That I don't have experience in investment banking.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:41] Where you play more associate roles or analyst roles.

Intern 5: [00:20:44] To be honest, I will give you that analyst role as well. I just want a fair opportunity to grow, to associate. Not like a traditional way, in a way.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:58] Oh, you don't want to grow the traditional way.

Intern 5: [00:21:01] Like there is no way in the sense that my industry, my expectation is they should consider at least like a few years of my experience out of that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:09] But that's coming across. They don't. They don't care. They're not going to hire. That's why you're a flight risk, because you're you're you're putting that you're somehow conveying that in the interview.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:21] Or somehow conveyed in.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:22] Your.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:22] Letters.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:23] Like they don't care about your engineering background, like they like it because it shows like rigor, but they're going to want to pay you as little as they can. They're going to work. Use it as they can, squeeze as much value out of you as they can as you're coming across. And you have to be willing to get your foot in the door. You have to be willing and. You should be willing to take a first year analyst job because guess what's going to happen? You are going to outperform, do really well assuming you like it and you're going to get that associate promote really fast. But it shouldn't be something you convey in the interview.

Intern 5: [00:21:53] Yeah, okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:54] I think that's hurting you, honestly. So I would change that. I would change. They want the humble, hungry, humble, hungry, humble, hungry. Okay, that's it. That's what they want.

Intern 5: [00:22:04] And they compare my current CPC with the CPC that they are offering and they think that it's very low. Then definitely this person will not stand. He will definitely go with compensation.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:15] You mean the compensation?

Intern 5: [00:22:16] Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:18] Yeah. And you can say, Look, I don't mind taking a pay cut because I understand this is this is where I want to be long term. Um. You know, I think I think it is a concern for them. And that's why as you get older, it's harder to get in. You become more more than eight years in. They kind of start looking at you be like, well, what's taking you so long to get over here, you know? But I think you just need to offset those concerns with a desire to say, like, I'm willing to start from the bottom. I understand the pay cut showing that once you get in there, you have the job, you have it on your CV, and then a couple of years, if they're not promoting you to associate or senior associate or what have you, then it's so much easier to lateral. You have it on your resume with the experience. You're just going to get your foot in the door initially or else.

Intern 5: [00:23:04] Yeah, I'm just starting for that very hard disk.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:09] It is very hard. Good luck. Hopefully this internship helps open more doors, more interviews.

Intern 5: [00:23:13] Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's. That's a whole.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:17] Take a look at the in the Slack group. There's an example of how to show this on your on your resume, on your CV.

Intern 5: [00:23:22] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:23] And make sure you're I hope your CVS one page.

Intern 5: [00:23:26] Yeah, it's one piece. Good. Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:29] Harry.

Intern 6: [00:23:31] It's sort of Patrick Neville and all other friends. So what I'm trying to you know, it is the right place for me or not because my scenario is different. So I am 50 years old and I recently completed my MBA in December. Last six, four or five months, six months before. So I want it to be law more in all the financial matters, like I want to be a financial analyst. And I've been looking to know more about the financial modeling values and like that. So I've been visiting your site many times. And I don't know. I don't know at this point. Because I used to be an accountant for the nonprofit organization. For the long time, a more or less two years. And then since I move in the US, I'm struggling to find a job. That was the reason I wanted to college and get the degree, and I still am.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:45] Where did you get your MBA from.

Intern 6: [00:24:46] Here in the US. Where? West? Texas A&M. It takes us.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:54] Yeah. So. And you want to do some sort of financial analyst type work?

Intern 6: [00:25:02] Yes.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:04] So that's super big. So that's your first problem is it's it's just big and like. Until you kind of hone down on more specifically what you want. It's going to be very hard to get what you want. Yeah. And so, like, it's hard. I think if you're reading a lot and and your background, you did have some accounting work and and the previous experience. That's good. What else have you been doing.

Intern 6: [00:25:27] In your career at this point? I'm I'm working as an insurance agent and I've been went through a lot of interviews. And for the accounting role, they said, you know, you have a gap for the most of the clients they're looking who are working right now. So you have a gap. So we cannot hide you. And some of.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:48] The. Why do you have a gap? Well, that's the red flag, right? Why do you have the gap.

Intern 6: [00:25:52] Is your next move in the US? I'm not from the US right now originally, and I move in the US and I was trying to find a similar feel to work and you know, I didn't get the chance at the forced. Right. And now I wanted to back into the college, you know, and get the degree. But it's still I'm trying to go to the accounting sector, but they're no one yet, you know, I don't know. They said, you know, most of the organization, they said you have a gap. And the last couple of months have been interviewing in government and non-government organizations. And most of the questions we have, we're not the technical. And at the same time they are looking for the technical skills like financial modelling, ERP, expert, you know, like power, a lot of things, you know, So at the same time, you know, I have to develop myself, all those area. So I'm just trying to get an idea, you know, from, I mean, you know, advice from you. So it is right place.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:58] Yeah. My advice to you is I don't know your financial situation. I don't know your life situation. So, like, are you desperate for a job, like where you have to have a job or can you invest in yourself into those skills? And then because like, it's very it's very different if you're like, I need a job now. Like I had a mentee who was working three jobs, all paying him like $14, $10 an hour, working 70, 80 hours a week. And he just couldn't he had a couple of kids. He couldn't get himself out of that. I'm like, I'm like, what are you doing? You're a Georgetown grad. I'm like, Go get a job at Fidelity, even if you don't want to be there long term. And sure enough, he did that just to sell a little bit of networking. And once he had that, suddenly he has one job working 50 ish hours a week and then he has 20 hours a week to work on himself. And so I think. It's helpful. Like an MBA from a non target school isn't necessarily to help you break into any sort of high finance role.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:53] It's good to show the degree and it's good to show show all that stuff. But I think one of the warnings I say to all I'd say to all the interns here is make sure you know what the degree is for and specifically what the placement stats are for whatever school you're going to. For Yukari, it depends like if you really need the money and you're like, I would be. You know, you're kind of in a tough position because you have some of the accounting background, but you want a financial analyst role, but you have never held those roles. So you have to like really just networking. Let's get somebody to give you a chance. Um, but it's hard with without those hard skills. Now, if you start doing the financial modeling, the valuation training, you and you market yourself well and you interview well, then you can maybe start breaking in at, at a level, but you also have ageism working against you. People are going to be discriminated against you for a couple of things for your accent here in the US and then also for the fact that you're older.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:51] Right? Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:52] So it's like you have a lot going against you. So I'd say, like, you need to you need to be more focused in terms of like what specific types of jobs you want and then get the skills exactly needed for it to, to perform in that role. And then and then network become really good at just talking to people and asking questions.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:10] And.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:11] Explaining kind of what you've been up to. So you're right now graduated without a job from your MBA?

Intern 6: [00:29:15] Yes.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:16] Yes. It's really tough. And now there's and that gap is what's killing you now.

Intern 6: [00:29:20] Yes. Yeah. And yeah, so because, you know, I don't have any experience in the accounting sector or in the financial analyst roles here in the US. So that was the reason, you know, they're not one to have you guys.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:36] Interviews while you're in your MBA.

Intern 6: [00:29:38] Yeah. So after that interview, I had several interviews with Jp morgan and the city of Houston and I have several interviews is still going on the job.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:49] And you didn't. Did they give you any feedback?

Intern 6: [00:29:52] Nobody. Nobody give me any feedback. Some of them saying, you know, you have a gap or this is that you have so let's say, for example, City of Houston. So I learned the SEP Right program. I know how to run, but I don't have a practical experience know I didn't applied while I was working. I'm working like that. So the head of the finances said, okay, So I was thinking, so you can run efficiently sap, but you just learn, but you don't have a practical experience. And later on they said, okay, we will inform you once you select. Right? But they have not recruited anyone. My, my, my status is showing progress has been a month, but I'm not getting back from them.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:45] Yeah, you shouldn't Depend on that. Yeah, you shouldn't depend on that. You know, I think. I think you just got to do what I said in terms of like being more focused and targeted and trying to develop the skills you need, but you're up against so many things right now. The gap is hurting you. Is the age, the accent. You know, it's yeah, like if you have to client facing if you're having to be climb facing some people are going to be like no we can't put you there so you need to. Yeah I think there's no easy answer here and I think. If you want to send me your resume over email, more detail, I can I can take a look and I'll try to give you some quick feedback there or point you in the right direction. But. I think I want to give some other people some time here, too. I got to jump in half hour or so, but yeah, some of your résumé. Patrick at Wall Street.

Intern 6: [00:31:37] So what about this internship? Is that something I can continue? Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:42] Yeah, you can. You can continue it. I think it will help you show more finance oriented stuff and develop skills. But I think, more importantly, you got to figure out what what what skills you develop here that will map to a specific job opening. We're like, They won't care about the age and everything else.

Intern 6: [00:32:00] Thank you very much.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:02] You're welcome. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Guys, I don't. I don't sugarcoat it. I won't sugarcoat it. I'll tell you. I'll tell you to tell you straight. You know, if things you know, I think things are hard sometimes and. Unfortunately, sometimes we use degrees or you're moving to a new country or something. And it's it's super hard. Mazin says this happens in UAE. Market is unstable. You have to keep working for Visa. Here we go. I can't read all the names here in one sec. Let me change my view. Uh, is it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:39] Object?

Intern 7: [00:32:39] Yes, sir.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:41] Hey, what's your question?

Intern 7: [00:32:44] So. So I started the internship about a week ago, and I'm not exactly from a finance background, so I'm doing master's in physics and I go on to kind of leverage myself to the finance. So first thing was how do I get my ideas? Industry is basically hedge funds. So when I looked at hedge funds, they don't exactly share the context or anything, so they talk myself to hedge funds. And the second is I really want to walk into us. And when I apply for jobs in the US, they ask for work authorizations, and I don't exactly have authorization to get around that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:25] The first question. Great questions, by the way. Thanks for asking them. So first question is specifically around networking with hedge fund professionals. So I would look for you can use the company database on Wall Street Oasis to look at specific, get a list of hedge funds right there. So if you go to slash Wall Street oasis slash company filter by hedge funds, there's a list right there. You can you can have that right right off the bat. Then when you go from there, there's actually naming or email conventions that are in those. You can use LinkedIn or you can even start trying to send out emails, cold emails. A lot of them will bounce back at you, but you can use a tool like Hunter bio. Um, and just start trying to talk to people. But I think the bigger concern here is your desire to be in the US. Probably the hardest part to get a work authorization and visa. I was talking to Nabil about this and he's in Iowa and I'm like, You probably want to go to London. If you want to be in finance, it's much easier. Or even Canada. To get in. So I think that's a much, much harder. Path. And I think what you should watch is we have an international visa course that we can get you access to. You should watch those discussions and see what people suggest on how to do it. There are ways to get it, but a lot of times it's lottery. And what year are you in school? You look young.

Intern 7: [00:34:53] I'm right now. Like my course is kind of integrated master's and bachelor's in my third year, third year, finishing both like three years.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:03] So, yeah, I mean, now it's a good time to be to having those discussions. Is your specific reason why you want to be in the US?

Intern 7: [00:35:11] Not particularly. I just spent. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:17] I don't know. Nabil, any suggestions? Any thoughts that I'm not providing.

Nabil: [00:35:21] You into the US?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:22] No, I'm just, like, specifically, like his situation. He's a physics major. Physics major?

Nabil: [00:35:29] Hedge funds is pretty good. Yeah, because, I mean, especially on trade and stuff. Like if you can put your, if you can model, well look for those patterns and all of that stuff because I think there's a lot of like Brownian motion and all those kinds of like very theoretical stuff that comes in at certain funds. Yeah, the ones like Citadel.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:49] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:51] Yeah, yeah. Like you should be. Yeah. You should be looking at there's a filter on the company database called prop prop trading firms. So Jane Street, New York, won all those. Some of them have gone under, but a lot of them are in Chicago. Maybe you want to get to Chicago. So, yeah, I think, you know, the networking part is almost easier than the the visa work authorization part. The other thing you can think about doing is getting a job specifically at another quant shop that is somewhere easier to get a.

Intern 7: [00:36:27] It's all of those things. I go to summer internships and maybe just another country or something. Yes, maybe I could leverage that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:34] Yeah, once you leverage that, especially if you show some of the work you've done, proprietary work and like, Oh, I built this model, I did this regression, I did this, this, this back, tested this. And I'm not an expert in quant funds, but I think trying to talk and find mentors that specifically have a similar background to you with maybe a physics background that are now at those funds and getting on the phone with them and asking them like, what would you guys need to see to hire somebody like me besides all the mental math and all the crazy obviously off the charts intelligence, what would you need to see? And so I think that's going to give you a much better insight than than myself personally is trying to talk to somebody on the inside there that's at those funds. And they're not going to share everything. But they'll probably if they feel like you're a younger version of themselves, they may share some insight that would be really helpful. Have you done any networking or reach out to people?

Intern 7: [00:37:24] Uh, not pretty.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:26] Are you using LinkedIn? Yeah. Yeah. So I'd start, like today or tomorrow, just connecting with anybody and everybody at all these funds.

Intern 7: [00:37:38] We look. We thank you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:40] Yeah. Even if only 10% accept it, maybe 10% of that 10% will get on the phone with you. And maybe the one of those calls will lead you in the right direction.

Intern 7: [00:37:49] Hopefully.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:49] Yeah. But you've got to do. You've got to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:52] You've got to shoot your shot though, right. You're not shooting at all and just saying, oh, I don't know how to do it. You're not going to get anywhere. You need to get on the phone with some people who know the inside. And that's not me, unfortunately. Yeah. That place is a very much a black box. What goes on in there?

Intern 7: [00:38:12] So just randomly random message. Okay. Thank you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:17] No worries. Let's see. Brandon, what's going on?

Intern 8:  [00:38:22] Oh, nothing much. There is something that you mentioned earlier that kind of made me want to ask a question. Sure. For those of us who are a little bit.

Intern 8:  [00:38:29] Older, like I'm not 22 anymore, but I'm still in my twenties and everything.

Intern 8:  [00:38:34] But for those of us who are a little bit older, what is like a way to kind of.

Intern 8:  [00:38:36] Get around that sort of objection of like, Oh, you're older? Like, how are you going to work under like, let's say, associate who's like the same age as you or you're younger.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:41] just coming across really humble number one and not like. I think if there's any if you're lucky enough to get actually them to state something like that, like concern like that.

Intern 8: [00:39:00] Is there a way to preemptively. Well, yeah. So I was in this coffee chat with someone the other day and it wasn't directed at me, but.

Intern 8: [00:39:05] He was like 24 and he was saying that he had to hire, like an accountant.

Intern 8: [00:39:09] For a private equity shop.

Intern 8: [00:39:11] That he worked for. Got to hire an accountant.

Intern 8: [00:39:12] For this company that they had just bought into.

Intern 8: [00:39:15] And he was worried about like they needed someone. Ten years experience, but he was like 24 and he.

Intern 8: [00:39:19] Was sort.

Intern 8: [00:39:20] Of just openly addressing that. He had this concern to me, which is kind of funny.

Intern 8: [00:39:24] But the thought.

Intern 8: [00:39:25] Kind of occurred to me that, yeah, this will be like an issue. And if there's any way to kind of get ahead of.

Intern 8: [00:39:30] It. By prior.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:30] I think it's tough because if you bring it up, then it's almost like. If you bring it up, it's almost like, hey, this could be you're flagging a problem. That doesn't necessarily if they don't have that thought.

Intern 8: [00:39:43] I'm not putting it on my resume, obviously.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:46]  But yes. But if they do it, if you're lucky enough for them to bring up the concern and this is why I like at the end of an interview. It's a little bit of a bold move, but the view I sometimes would say something like, I just want to reiterate, I'm really excited about this position. If there are any concerns about my candidacy, I'd love to hear them and be able to address them because it is something that's this is this is exactly where I want to be. And I can I can assure you that I'd work I'd work very hard just delivering something like that really confidently, directly to them. Well, sometimes put there and they say, well, actually one of our concerns is this is this. And then boom, you can you can address it. Well, actually, I've worked you know, I very much deferred to people much younger than me when I was a junior in this club and there was a freshman did the freshman was doing this and I did it. And like, I have no problem doing that at all. Like, I respect everyone. Age doesn't really matter to me. It's about the skills and the hard work you put in and blah blah, and then you can give them that and then that way. So you can. You can't. I'd rather you not say in an interview, Hey, I know I'm a little older.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:51] But.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:53] Then it looks bad, but I think more kind of opening it up for them to share their concerns and then you being able to address them with a story that. That completely mitigates it. I think it's a better strategy.

Intern 8: [00:41:04] So you're just going to kind of hope that.

Intern 8: [00:41:05] They come out with it if.

Intern 8: [00:41:06] It's a concern for them. Otherwise it's just kind of hope, but.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:09] But also kind of prod for concerns.

Intern 8: [00:41:11] Sure. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:12] For and if they say nothing, I think just showing that you're really hungry for the position and that you want it and you're going to work hard, I think it goes a long way. Being too cool in the interview bad, It's bad news. You don't want to see desperate and like, I will do anything for this job and go crazy like that because it is kind of weird, but showing that you really want it and that you serious and you understand what the job exactly is, is like half the battle for these entry level roles, especially it's like half of that or 90% of the battle. People think, Oh, I need to memorize all the technicals and get all the technicals right. Well, no, it's usually mostly about attitude and behavioral and showing that you really want it and you understand the job.

Intern 8: [00:41:51] Yeah, I think I told that before that I was.

Intern 8: [00:41:53] Addressing too many of the technicals in the interview and I just wanted to get to know me.

Intern 8: [00:41:57] Which was kind of a good.

Intern 8: [00:41:59] Comment, I guess. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:00] Great feedback. Great feedback.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:03] Thanks for the question. Who have I not? Hold on, Alvin. And the.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:10] Wolf is.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:11] Back. The wolf pack. This thing always scares.

Intern 9: [00:42:13] Me after two weeks.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:16] How are you?

Intern 9: [00:42:17] I'm good. I'm good. I was just doing some work for us right now, so. Yeah. So I have two questions. So my first question is related to the internship, so I just wanted to clarify. So now, since we are using Spotify and like we need to complete the free articles like in 25 hours. So I just wanted to know, like, is there like, is it like I need to finish the or the 25 articles in like a specific timeframe? Like I started the internship in May. So right now I'm doing like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:56] For people who started before it starts, like however many hours you have left that applies for whatever you have left, we're not going to make you retroactively go back.

Intern 9: [00:43:05] Okay. So like right now, I completed around 40 girls, so I'm left with 17. So is it like I need to finish the 17 remaining articles by a specific date or.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:21] No.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:22] It's more like how many hours have you put in? And then however many hours are left, you need to put in that many. So like, it may be less than 21 for you. If you had already written like for super long articles for example. And yeah, you can, it's more based on the number of hours you have left and then calculating the number of articles you should be able to complete in that time.

Intern 9: [00:43:42] All right. So even if, let's say in a specific week, I have I'm not able to commit like I have some other commitments. So it's fine if I'm able to still complete the remaining articles, let's say August or even September. Right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:02] I'm trying to think I think there's a cap of 14 weeks on a bill.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:05] Correct me if I'm wrong.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:06] I think we do put a cap of 14 weeks on it just so it doesn't drag out. And it's like a two hour thing because otherwise it just it just ties up our resources in terms of trying to review things and making sure we know how many people are going through it. So I think we do have if you started in May, if you need like a couple of weeks off or there's something that's come up that's a different story, but stretching out, doing it just a few hours a week and stretching it over like five, six months, I don't think is ideal for us or for anybody.

Intern 9: [00:44:34] So maybe around the end of July or start of August, I might be a good jump to complete over 21.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:44] And again, I don't think you're going to have to do 21 because if you put in a lot of hours, I think it would be less than that, depending on how many hours you did with the initial four.

Intern 9: [00:44:53] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:54] So you can ask anybody all that we can look at your your past, the history prior and get a more firm number on that.

Intern 9: [00:45:01] And my second question is related to like working in the UAE. So as for me, I'll be graduating in Australia. So I know some friends.

Intern 9: [00:45:11] Who are.

Intern 9: [00:45:12] Like who are like older than me once they graduated, they want to work in the UAE. So I wanted to know, is it like better to work in Australia for one or two years and then apply for a job in the UAE? Or as soon as I graduate in Australia I can apply for a finance job in Europe. What would you recommend?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:36] I'm leaving this one to Nabil.

Nabil: [00:45:39] Though. Honestly, it depends. Like, what do you want to like? What's the purpose? Like, if you just want, like, a. It's like if you just won money, like, yeah, you could come here and do it because it's tax free and all that. But like, a lot of people also go the other way, right? Like because display doesn't give you citizenship. People travel to other places, get the citizenship, then come back. So like people go to Canada, they go to Australia, get like five years, whatever, and then come back for the tax benefit basically. So it depends on what you're looking for. Honestly, if you did graduate in Australia, this should not be a problem. Getting a job again, like it's just networking and stuff, the usual stuff. People come back, they just apply on LinkedIn and then they go back because it's very competitive that way. It's people like you'll have thousands of applications for a job and no one really looks at them. So if you do networking and like, you know, stay here for a bit, maybe a couple of months, you should get a job. And I'm sure you'd have alumni here so you could reach out to them and all that stuff. But again, it depends on what you want from the job. So what is it that you're looking for?

Intern 9: [00:46:43] So for me personally, just like experience and also maybe later to settle, I can.

Intern 9: [00:46:51] Because. Yeah.

Nabil: [00:46:54] Yeah, yeah. Then you could. Yeah. Then you could move. Yeah. Move to the U.S..

Intern 9: [00:46:58] Like, let's say I'm graduating next year so I can apply directly in the UAE.

Nabil: [00:47:05] Yeah, you could. But I would probably suggest going through channels like LinkedIn or emails and getting like on phone calls or Skype just because no one's going to look at your application or whatever you apply, like LinkedIn or whatever.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:18] Globally, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:21] Everyone in this inter chat stop dropping your resume on online portals hoping that you'll get picked.

Nabil: [00:47:30] Exactly

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:31] Very rare. Even the people with the top resumes from the top schools in the world. It's like a 5% response rate. And that's people with a 3.8 to 4.0 GPA or a perfect high honors scores. Whatever they call them, the U.K., double A's or whatever. That's the highest, highest, highest from the top schools in the world. They're getting like a 5 to 10% response rate. So imagine if you're not from one of those specific schools or whatnot and you're dropping that. You're just going to have like a 0.3% response rate. So you have to apply like 1000 places to get one interview or even one response. So it's really silly to spend your time doing that, making yourself feel good, like you're being your you're working so hard and staying so busy because you applied to 100 places online. Now take your time and talk to people and then apply. And it's so much, so much more effective with the time you have, the limited time you have, because you've got a lot of you guys are still in school or trying to work. So. They. Sorry to bill for that tangent, but it's the same as everywhere.

Nabil: [00:48:37] Yeah. Yeah, that's good.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:40] You know, it's who you know.

Nabil: [00:48:41] Exactly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:45] Let's see. I'm going to butcher your name. But is it dead in the heat? Hello? Nino.

Intern 10: [00:48:55] Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Hi, Patrick. Hi. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. I have a few questions, but firstly, I would like to start with the last points you raised with the last person that spoke. You talked about talking to people and not just sending applications, like talking to people before sending out applications. That's more effective. So what are you talking about? Like chatting people up on LinkedIn? Like your connections on LinkedIn?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:33] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, trying to get on phone calls and Zoom calls where you're actually showing your face and you're you're talking and you're developing some sort of relationship and understanding and asking them about their specific role, trying to understand more. So then suddenly, like, then there's like a personal connection with them. There's a personal like investment that they feel towards, like making sure you do well. And the way you do that is like, Oh, everyone should read that book. What's that book deal about? Friends and influencing Pete. Best friend. What's it called?

Nabil: [00:50:07] Oh, yeah. How to make.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:09] Friends and influence people. Yes. Yes. So like that. Like if you if you if.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:13] You learn those skills in that book and just talk about them the whole time and, you know, ask interesting questions and show that you're listening, you're going to get a lot of people that like you and you're going to get people who are going to want to help you. And then that's what's opening that's going to open so many more doors than dropping your resume everywhere.

Intern 10: [00:50:33] Okay. Well, he's not exactly dropping resumes everywhere, just applying to openings.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:40] No, you you can still do that. My point is that your time is better spent doing phone calls face to face. My point is.

Intern 10: [00:50:47] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:48] 20 minutes spent with a phone call with somebody that works at a firm you potentially want to be at some day or is in a role that's similar to where you want to be. Those 20 minutes with that one person is about 100 times more valuable than the 20 minutes you put in applying to 1010 roles or five roles or whatever.

Intern 10: [00:51:05] Okay, Thank you very much.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:07] It's much more valuable, even though it's more painful and it's more nerve wracking, it's more nervous. It's not as comfortable. The people who are willing to do that and get on the phone and make those personal connections and and guess what? Like, it'll be awkward the first few times you do it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:23] It'll be awkward. It's good.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:24] It's awkward, it's weird. It's like, you know, and that's why. But it's also gets you better at interviewing, too.

Intern 10: [00:51:30] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:31] It's like you're developing multiple skills in terms of how to talk with people, how to feel comfortable on a Zoom chat, how to. You're developing a lot more important skills than just trying to look good on a piece of paper and sending it out and hoping.

Intern 10: [00:51:45] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:48] But yeah, I know, I know it's hard. I know it's hard, but I really encourage everybody here to just try it. And you can do that by you can do that by basically just sending connection requests to people who are in the roles that you want to be in. Just start, start doing that and it can be a short little intro. Hi, my name is.

Intern 10: [00:52:08] So I already started doing that. But sometimes you don't get responses back, you know? Oh, most.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:13] Of the time, yeah. I assume probably 10% of the people that are that you send that to are going to. Temperature. The people that are doing that are going to respond. I'd say on your LinkedIn, looking at your LinkedIn right now, I'd say for that I'd say get a get your look professional, but clean up the background, have a bigger smile.

Intern 10: [00:52:34] Okay

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:52:35] Look happier, you look happy. It's a little bit of a smirk. Look happier, Be like not like crazy like, like, you know what I mean? You know, just to. Just to make yourself look really approachable and friendly.

Intern 10: [00:52:50] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:52] Because when when you send out stuff and then in terms of how you're reaching out on the cold emails, when you hit a connection request to somebody, it shouldn't just don't just let it be the generic thing that LinkedIn throws in.

Intern 10: [00:53:03] Yes, personal, not perfect.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:06] And so what percentage of people are you? I see you have over 500 connections. Better than most people on here.

Intern 10: [00:53:12] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:15] Good. So you're doing you're doing some of this. Did you just start doing this?

Intern 10: [00:53:19] Oh, so I just started doing it. I used to do it in the past, but then I stopped. After some it reduced, but then I picked it up again and said that recently.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:31] I think one of your struggles are going to be like your, your the gap. So you stop working in February 2022.

Intern 10: [00:53:37] It does because I'm studying in the UK now for my masters.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:43] You did. Okay, so that's good. So you don't have a gap.

Intern 10: [00:53:45] Yeah. Okay. So my next question is you talked about a one page CV to someone earlier. Mm hmm. I currently have like a three page CV. I think that partly because of the template, the template I use, although they are mostly relevant things that are they. So I don't know what the I do.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:17] You don't know what to come.Yeah. So it's a great question. Why is a one page PCB important? Well. I think. Most people don't want to look through a three page CV, So the CV isn't about including everything that you've done or every accomplishment you've done. It's not a running list of it's not like a research CV or an instructor CV where you're showing all your publications or even a medical CV, a CV and finance is really just like, here are the highlights here. The skills I have here are the schools I went to. Here's a little bit about me to get them interested to to want more. So think of like the CV more as a bullet, a billboard, and less of like less of a rundown of your whole.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:55] Bio.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:56] And the billboard. If you had a billboard and people were driving along the street and only had 10 seconds to look at it, if your font was ten point font on a billboard that's 1000 feet away, they're not going to even read it. They're not going be able to read it. So having too much is actually very detrimental to how how good your CV converts into interviews. So I'd really suggest I mean, it depends a little bit on what you're going for. Some kind of positions are a little more open to maybe a two page or let's say you're like a vice president, you do have a long deal sheet. Sometimes they'll be the one page and then they'll be like a transaction experience on a second page. Or if you're managing director, that makes sense. But usually from the associate level down, it's almost always better to have one page. Yeah, and I'd highly suggest I'll put in the chat right now. If you're looking for a template, we have a resume review or resume template that we use for our resume review clients. That's free. I'll send that through here. Resources. Let's see this in banking resume template Copy link. I'll drop it here in the chat for everybody so you can grab that there. That's a pretty space efficient template. So it's going to be hard to cut from 3 to 1.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:13] But if you're applying.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:14] If you're applying to finance roles in how many jobs did you have prior, let's.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:19] See.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:20] Accountant for three years. So like, you know, the account executive role is lean Transport solutions is short on executive roles, not as not as relevant. I'd have more of the financial accountant and the investment investment Analyst group.

Intern 10: [00:56:35] Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:36] Be the biggest you're going to get questions of like why did you only stay for nine months? You went to go get your master's, but why go start, start a bona. You know.

Intern 10: [00:56:46] Sorry, I didn't get that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:47] You're going to get questions around how that stint is a little bit shorter out of.

Intern 10: [00:56:51] Well.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:52] And you're going to get questions probably around why is their gap from Bulbous to a Buna.

Intern 10: [00:56:59] Okay. Okay. So I'm referring to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:02] Yeah. So there may be and I don't know what the answer is to that, but I don't know if you can make it more general. Or maybe, maybe this is okay saying you stopped in March instead of February. Maybe.

Intern 10: [00:57:15] So I actually wanted to change, like to switch into finance. I got tired of the accounting thing and I actually resigned without another job. And so eventually I got that one. I want to as.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:34] Bold of you, but it's dangerous because then it leaves that gap. Right?

Intern 10: [00:57:38] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:39] Yeah. So usually I say apply to the roles you want. Make sure you have something else that's that's better prior to leaving your current role. Is much easier to find a job when you have a job.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:54] Excuse me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:57] But yeah, I would look at revamping your resume. I'd look at trying to get more on the phone. On the phone with people. Are you looking to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:03] Do.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:05] Like hedge fund type stuff or investment management?

Intern 10: [00:58:08] Yes, exactly. Yeah. Um.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:15] I mean, you have some good bullets here. The only thing I'd say, looking at your bullets for now, they're all good, but they're not great bullets. You're not quantifying anything here. You're just saying what you did. But you're not saying what the results were.

Intern 10: [00:58:28] Hmm. Okay.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:30] So look into that to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:32] See if you can.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:32] See if you can make it a little bit more tangible. Like, give me numbers. I always say put as many numbers on your resume as you can, even if it's like. You were presented to clients. How many clients presented to seven clients? What types of clients presented to seven Fortune 500 clients? It just gives you a lot more meat on the bone in terms of making the bullets much more relevant. Unfortunately, I have to end this because I have a call in one minute and I just realized.

Intern 10: [00:59:04] Thank you very much.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:05] But thanks to everybody. Hopefully this was helpful for everybody. I think there's probably parallels for what everyone's dealing with, so always feel free to use the chat to. We have open and slack and we'll do this again next week. And if I didn't get to you, I apologize. I'll try to get to you next week. And you could say the chat. You didn't get to me last week. Pick me, pick me first and we'll try to do that. Thanks, everybody. Have a great weekend.

Intern 10: [00:59:29] Thank you. Bye bye.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:31] Bye bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street, Oasis. And till next time.