WSO Podcast | E129: MM IB to Venture Capital from a Non-target University
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In this episode, we learn how Barrett managed to break into investment banking out of the University of San Diego even though he didn't even know what investment banking was until his Junior year. He gives some must-listen advice on networking, how to interview when you're not a subject matter expert and how he was able to find the right opportunity in venture capital coming out of investment banking on the west coast.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 129) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, we learn how Barrett managed to break into investment banking out of the University of San Diego, even though he didn't know what investment banking was until his junior year. He gives some must listen advice on networking, how to interview when you're not a subject matter expert, and how he was able to find the right opportunity in venture capital. Coming out of investment banking on the West Coast. Enjoy. All right, Barrett, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Voices podcast.Yeah, no pleasure to be here. Thanks, Patrick.
Barrett: [00:00:58] So it'd be great if you could just give
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:59] The listeners a quick summary of your bio.Yeah, absolutely. I graduated from University of San Diego at 18 and studied finance
Barrett: [00:01:07] There, and prior to that, my rising junior summer. I was an intern at a hedge fund, small family office macro fund in La Jolla, California, so, so local to the university on there parlayed that into a internship with the University Growth Fund, which, as you know, wfffe'll get into that a little more. But that's super interesting opportunity where you're essentially a student managed venture capital fund. It's based on Salt Lake City, and I was out of our San Diego office and then parlayed that forward. About a year after graduation into a full time analyst position at investment bank D.A. Davidson. I was in our technology group for the vast majority of the time there. And then just recently, about a little over a month ago, joined up here family office in San Francisco and primarily seed and series tech investing. So, you know, short journey in the grand scheme of things, but it feels like a longer one and it's good to be up here.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:01] Yeah, I think it's great to chat with you because there are a lot of analysts on the site that are kind of thinking potentially VC family office
Barrett: [00:02:07] And just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:09] Hearing about how you from
Barrett: [00:02:10] Non target's breaking into banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:12] So just hearing how you kind of position yourself through undergrad and going to an on target and then it would be interesting. So let's start all the way back. So where are you from originally? And yeah, yeah, just give a little bit more
Barrett: [00:02:25] About like freshman year. Did you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:26] Know finance was like your dream or VC like now? Short answer is absolutely not now high school. I grew up in Laguna Beach, California, so Orange County kid born and raised down there and staying somewhat local in California, but certainly not the East Coast, and it's a different vibe,
Barrett: [00:02:42] As you're very familiar with. But yeah, my first actual experience and I think the vast majority of kind of my career is less finance oriented and more entrepreneur oriented, and I think the finance component is kind of a step into the entrepreneurial world. I actually had a volunteer hour long 11 p.m. on a Sunday night segment on our local nonprofit FM radio station in high school. And it was kind of that autonomy in that, like, you know, for listeners, one of which being my mom like happiness that I kind of identified with founder story. So from there kind of grew into relationships with founders, whether or not they were just in my network or outside of that. So kind of drawn to growing things. And I call it just kind of the lifestyle of building versus just pure finance, which is what you get. You ever start.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:34] Did you ever start anything in college or anything like that?I actually kind of rolled out part of that radio thing. It was a sports talk show. It was a sports talk show. Yeah. And when I turned it into is actually like an editorial. And I got like 30 high schoolers in first second year college kids
Barrett: [00:03:52] Website and it became politics, music and sports. So everything that our parents don't want to listen to us talk about at home, we talk about it on editorial. So I actually did start that off the beat because we cannot afford the fare. And yeah, I mean, a couple of buddies that that in And made a couple of thousand Bucks in Google ads and that was the extent of the actual entrepreneurship. And I think if
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:15] You made a couple of thousand from Google ads, that means it's actually not, not a decent size. It was actually it was actually a pretty decent size. My point is like, you get very you get pennies on per thousand Or so back that that was I mean, that was what, 13 two and it was the click ads, which was very different back then. But the amount of content we had versus the amount
Barrett: [00:04:34] Of I don't even Want to call it revenue, but Google bothered that that we were putting out there was astronomical. I mean, we probably had one hundred articles or so and maybe one hundred clicks in a week. It was. It was Small, but and most of them Were. Again, moms and dads are like, OK, well, I want to talk
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:52] About, can we talk a little bit about that? Because I think it's interesting that people who are thinking like, I want to start this thing on the side and I want to I'm going to go jump away from banking
Barrett:: [00:05:02] And start this, this
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:03] Editorial thing. Tell me a little bit about it. What's that? The passion economy is a thesis. We hear a lot, actually.
Barrett: [00:05:10] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:10] And so tell me a little bit about just. What you thought going into starting that, so for other college kids or high school kids, maybe there's some high school kids listening, but like what you saw going in there, like what you thought was going to support the business model because I know when I started Wall Street Oasis, I was
Barrett: [00:05:23] Very much like similar like, Oh,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:25] We'll run some ads, and it's all about just getting the engagement that we've kind of fallen into a decent little business here. But it's been 14 years. It's not like we're not huge. So tell me a little bit about how you went about thinking about it and then some of the difficulties of,
Barrett: [00:05:40] Like some, you started with friends,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:43] I assume.
Barrett: [00:05:44] And then like the vision, did it change or did other people
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:47] Have different opinions of what was going on?
Barrett: [00:05:48] Why was it scaling stuff like that? I think it's interesting to hear. Yeah, yeah. And I wish I could provide More of My current mindset towards that. But really, it was the most intrinsic value thing you could think of. I enjoyed writing. I enjoy content. I enjoyed kind of leading. Yeah, in a sense. And there was no, Hey, I want to make revenue off this. It wasn't your sport.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:09] Were you the sports person? Were you the were you everything? I was a sports person. And yeah, and my co radio host, actually, it's called. If you're ever in Laguna Beach, it's the only time you can listen online, too, but you can listen to that. Yeah. And my radio co-host was, you know, we actually met model United Nations, which is another great
Barrett: [00:06:29] Program if you're listening in high school, for whatever reason, if you want to learn how to talk and debate and do it or not, that's how we met. And then all of a sudden he's like, I like Radio and I like Politics, and you like sports. Why don't we just talk about it? And that we had the I kid you not? It was 11:00 pm Sunday nights and it was an hour long and it was volunteer hour, so it was funny. Yeah, I know there was there was very little grandeur vision. There was very Little he actually had the idea of, Hey, why don't you try to put a Google ads on this? Like, it wasn't even a revenue scheme. It was. Yeah, I think I think in the back of my mind, thinking back on it, it was it was more of a college play than anything else. It was, Hey, we have 30 or 40 kids that are going to college And all you get Is your application, your GPA and your whatever two thousand word essay on the app. What if we can just click a link and then all of a sudden you have your voice, you have three articles that you've written on politics, sports, music, whatever it is, and you can show a little more of yourself, some substance.
Barrett: [00:07:28] Yeah, that's that was the core.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:30] I think that's awesome. That's great feedback. I think people have to be careful with that, especially on the sports. I think a little safer politics for sure.
Barrett: [00:07:36] Be careful putting that out
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:38] There because you come across one
Barrett: [00:07:40] Interview, one interviewer that does disagrees with you or whatever sits on the other side Of it. And boom,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:46] Even if you're moderate, like they will. I mean, everyone will find a way to disagree with politics. It's really hard to disagree with sports and then actually have, like, vitriol dislike of that person. It's like you're going to pass that. I'm a big Rams fan. Hold that against you right now. As much as I want you, Ken, it's fine.
Barrett: [00:08:02] Go Celtics.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:03] They won in Game one. I'm excited about that, too. But yeah, we got our game one tonight, so we'll hold out
Barrett: [00:08:08] On that one.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:09] Of course, the Lakers. Yeah, so we're antia antithesis of the sports spectrum. You think the Lakers have a chance, a chance. I mean, you have Anthony Davis and LeBron James or two best athletes of their positions. I think you think they're you're not you're not worried how they're playing in the bubble at all. I'm terrified of how they're playing.
Barrett: [00:08:27] Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:27] All right. Let's move on. So you OK? So there's no grand jury. It's kind of a play that just help enrich your college applications.
Barrett: [00:08:33] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:34] You get into did you apply to other schools at the University of San Diego? What was the thought process of going there and then tell me about? Yeah, yeah. It's actually probably a little more complex than that. I actually did not go to USC out of this spectrum. I went to University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.
Barrett: [00:08:49] Good to start with. And as you can imagine, with my high school background, I know a little bit more about. I actually went there specifically to sports management and I applied to a couple of other schools and I really like the sports management. I kind of want to be Jim McGuire because I Saw a movie and
applied to Syracuse is a great sports management program and a Kelley School business, not sports management business program. I was I was kind of thinking with the sports kind of Core, I want a Big, a big sports school, a big brand, a big name and Network. And it's funny because I actually ended up graduating from USDA, which has very little snow Fence to our Boss former football program, but it's just a Different environment. And so when I went out there, I very quickly realized that Major was not about making Jerry Maguire. And I also realized I didn't really want to be that as I was, you know, took more classes and whatnot. I kind of was gearing towards the public market to actually in finance, and I kind of like the sports element of being able to take a bet on a theory, and you're either right or you're wrong. Mm hmm. And that's what finance kind of enables and sports and that major specifically, I realized it was more of a sports marketing thing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:56] But why not stay in Michigan as a strong business program?
Barrett: [00:09:59] Getting to that point? Yeah. Right. So you apply after your freshman sophomore year and I mean Ross atop the business school. Phenomenal. I did not. I did not go to that school thinking I was going to apply. And then a. Year end, when I was already behind the guns into any extracurriculars probably didn't have the grades to get in. I had that decision to make where I was like, OK, now a year in doing finance on the side, whether it's public markets or whatnot, I realize I want to be finance in some capacity or another. And I also realize if I'm going to take the chance of getting in there, it's going to take me six years. And if I don't, I'm not working in an industry. So I very quickly realized that and parlayed that into looking sorry.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:39] What do you mean he was going to take you six years? What did you mean by that? Yeah. So, so sports management, it's actually the school sports manager. Ok, OK. So yeah, I can take my career. I could take econ when I want and stuff like that. But there was a lot of things that I was disadvantaged because I just didn't know that going in.
Barrett: [00:10:53] And if you know anything about Ross, there's admits to and a large portion of the class is already in there. And if you're not in there, you're focused on it from day one. You're doing everything you can to make the best application. And I just didn't have that or the grades or
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:08] I mean, good grades like three, five or higher or three, seven or higher
Barrett: [00:11:10] Something. I probably three seven is really impacted. It's like
A three percent acceptance rate coming from at least to school sports management.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:18] Yeah. So it's pretty tough. Yeah, it's tough and justifiably so. It's an unbelievable school and I have so many friends that came out of there to great jobs in New York and Chicago. And I think a second component is I actually knew I wanted to work in California. And all of a sudden when you start looking at going to school at USC or USC or whatnot out
Barrett: [00:11:35] Here on the West Coast, you definitely take a step down in the name and notoriety of the target status and whatnot. But geography definitely plays an impact. I mean, Michigan kids, for the vast majority of them, they end up in Chicago or New York or Boston, and coming out of San Francisco was obviously with the name of Ross. Like, it's possible. But you know, I was kind of willing to take that chance, and it wasn't a huge deal for me. Just like I want to say, if I want to do this, where else can I get a greater chance in? And so fast forward to go to X'd after my freshman year. Lifestyles also different. Very much so. Enjoyed Orange County kid hand up like I like the beach, right? So you go in the USC, like, has that draw? Absolutely. And yeah, and then USC also ended up being an incredible school for a network. I mean, it's a small school down in San Diego that know you say usc, and they're like, so University of California, San Diego State or USC, and you have to clarify almost every time. But for the small network it has, it's a very tight knit network. There are a lot of people that will go to bat for you that had a big school like absolutely name recognition, big alumni network, all that good stuff. But like, If I'm a Hiring manager and I went to usd and I had this Experience actually at D.A. Davidson, my technical interviewer Was a U.S. dealer, and all Of a sudden it's like, OK, there's a lot less kind of fish in that seat. And then all of a sudden, when you find one, it's a lot more rare. There's probably a little bit more of a connection there, too.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:05] Yep, fair. Ok, so tell me a little bit about. So you did the training, you did the transfer and you knew you wanted to go finance at that point. So you said, OK, I'm just going to stay University of San Diego. Do you consider it all going to like a other school or do you feel like your grades weren't high enough in Michigan to get into, like a super like?
Barrett: [00:13:25] I don't know. Maybe like you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:26] See it like an Anderson or A. So that was a tough one. I actually grew up at UCLA. Both my parents, uncles, everyone TCI and you need 60 units. You need two years essentially to transfer to either a state school or a U.S. school. So when I really wanted to finance and
Barrett: [00:13:45] Decided to leave Michigan was a real possibility, I could only apply to essentially private schools in California. Got it. And that's my parents and my financial scenario were not extremely excited about that. But yes, he also has a really good merit and need based system where they do help a lot of kids out. So cool. That's another plus for USC if I Haven't given the plug yet.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:07] Yeah, great. So you're basically coming in there here as a sophomore, correct? Now you're loving
Barrett: [00:14:13] Each
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:14] Lifestyles a little better. Did you find like it was? Do you find like immediately you were just networking right away to try and land like internships? I know you, you started. I think that first summer after your first year, you, you had some hedge fund internship, right? Yeah, that's exactly right. So I had the benefit of coming from a big school and
Barrett: [00:14:35] Realizing what that meant. And I also had parents that, you know, I don't know if I told them that I was thinking about transferring until I actually got in and made the decision to transfer. So that was a different conversation. But I come from a family that's very real in terms of like you are taking a dropdown and name, it's going to be harder. How are we going to fill those gaps? Because there's ways to do it is that non targets are scrappy because of this and networking was topless. San Diego is a, you know, not necessarily a powerhouse market for finance at all. But there certainly are folks that you can network with there. And for me, it was kind of pavement cold calls, cold calls, cold calls and then came from a. You see on my network to co-workers and it just rabbit hole from there, and I made that dedication to them pen and paper and say, here's my list of 30 people that I'm going to call today. And LinkedIn wasn't. I don't even know if I watch it because I don't even think I was on LinkedIn back then to tell the truth.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:27] This was 16, 2016. I think this was 2015. Yeah, so. So tell me a little bit about just how are you getting those names? Initially that first batch, it sounds like you were able to turn the initial batch to kind of a spider web of the rabbit hole where you're able to kind of get past
Barrett: [00:15:44] Passed on to to kind of referrals. But tell me a little bit about that. Yes, an entry point for me was a lot of alumni in San Diego. There's some crazy stuff that I boom, but trough the top my head. But a lot of San Diego used alarm and say, You say I live in San Diego post-grad, so it's a very strong network post-grad there. And I kind of knew that and realized and it's a lot of asset management as opposed to other high finance roles like there's not a lot of investor making there. There's not a lot of hedge funds down there. There's certainly not a lot of these fees down there. Yeah, although the ones that are there doing good stuff. But so I kind of knew that and realized I'm going to go through alumni networks. And then at the end of every call, I'd ask, Is there any other alumni that you work with or that you work, you're in contact with and you work with that don't work with you that I can network with? And eventually that that Wealth Management Financial Advisor, Asset Management Group in San Diego really started like open its doors and, you know, especially as like a local kid from a non target, you can play that story right to at least get your foot in the door. And I was really fortunate to get in with a place called have capital that was the CEO and founder. There was the former CIO of Nicholas Applegate, so trillions of dollars under management and his experience, and that was the stage that he was at and it was a four person family. Office missions merged, but it was unbelievable opportunity for kid that really had only taken two semesters worth Of under a low level finance, maybe accounting classes to get an. I would sit next to him every day during that internship. And, you know, at some point in that summer that went on and I said, I really like this. I think I can do this long term. And it wasn't, Hey, I know I need to check the boxes with internships and with relationships and stuff like that. It was actually really enjoyed doing this. And all of a sudden That goes on, that self-motivation goes on. It will drive you a lot further and make you a lot frankly better at your job. Yeah. So you're saying it was a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:38] Family office
Barrett: [00:17:39] Hedge fund, kind of.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:40] So you're doing like long short equity. What like what type of stuff are you doing there? Yeah, a lot of long, short equity plays a good amount of merger
Barrett: [00:17:46] Arbitrage, a good amount. So wake up in the morning and all of a sudden a LinkedIn's getting bob on Microsoft. What's going to be affected by that in the markets today? How can we get in there in the next 30 minutes? So as the unexperienced rising junior intern, I was not making those decisions. I was trying to answer very basic questions that my portfolio managers were pushing down to me, but there were very few hours. What were your hours? Nine five, no overtime pay stubs like that. So OK. And the Hoya family office vibe is, you can probably imagine, isn't necessarily like, Hey, we have an intern, let's work in a death. It was like, I give back opportunity for them. I mean, the value that I was adding, that was nowhere near to the value that I got back. I mean, I was going to lunch with a portfolio manager group every day because they were just nice enough to let me come in. So for me, it wasn't about developing real skills. It was actually, how did these guys think?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:39] How do these how did you even get in there? How do they agree to this? It doesn't sound like they have an internship program.
Barrett: [00:18:45] Don't have an internship program?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:46] Tell me how you convince them to take you on to do this. I don't know. I think this is the right word because that's more interesting to me, and I think that's more interesting to a lot of people.
Barrett: [00:18:54] I think that's OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:55] Great. He got that internship, but how do I get it? Is there that I can hear all the listeners
Barrett: [00:19:00] Saying, and it sounds like you're a good speaker. It sounds like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:04] You're comfortable around people. So were you just schmoozing them so well that they are like, Yeah, buddy, like, come on, hang out. And for the summer, you know, are like, what was it like for you? Like, Hey, man, this is just tough from a non target.
Barrett: [00:19:15] And there was no way that alumni
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:17] Can actually be like, Let me just sit and like, No, it's it's a great question, and I think that story actually doesn't play the way that I maybe thought it did back then. Hey, like, put me in front
Barrett: [00:19:29] Of like and I don't think a lot of people will listen to that. I think it's we're not on target candidates. Excel is when you see their passion and all of a sudden it's like, hey, you know, maybe this person didn't set themselves up in high school or they transferred or whatever the story is. But if you just have a conversation about public market investing for this hedge fund, for example, right? You can have a conversation about like, I remember that summer we did a long, short play on the Rite Aid, Walgreens, and if it was going to clear and if there was going to be FTC denial stuff like that, you know, if you're just able to have an intellectual conversation with that, that impresses people. And so but you were able to do that before even talking with these people? Absolutely, absolutely not. But the point of why I say that is. To give context on where that passion comes through, and like if you are intellectually curious and you say, OK, I had one call with this person and I learned what they're thinking about on their day to day job and the Rite Aid Walgreens thing comes to mind because first of all, I had the CIO there. He brought it up and then I went back to the drawing board, looked it up a bunch and then my next call with him, I was able to converse to talk about that. Got it. And more importantly, it wasn't from a space of, Hey, I'm going to share with you and this. This is what a lot of interviews turn into. It's probably not the best way to do it. It's I'm the interviewee. I'm telling you how much I know it rarely works when you turn it into a conversation and I'm sure you hear this all the time, you turn that into a conversation. You say, Hey, what do you thinking about? Let them talk a little bit, and then you can just have a conversation about, OK, if this doesn't go through and the FCC blocks this, then how do you play it? And you start thinking commercially. That's how you show that you're genuinely interested in the position, and you could do that position on a daily basis as opposed to trying to make a connection to the textbook, which rarely turns into a real conversation.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:11] Try to show, you know, like how to walk through a DCF and like no evaluations is not going to work yet. And you'd be you'd be surprised at how many. I mean, as an analyst, as a full time analyst, I know a first year analyst and you get hit up on LinkedIn, as you should, by folks that went to your school and whatnot.
Barrett: [00:21:27] Maybe you'd be surprised how many conversations turn into how much I know versus asking and truly seeking the information that will be valuable from the call. I was talk about this is like in what I've been successful in networking in is instead of having an agenda on what I want to get out of the call, it's hey, how can this conversation be more useful? Intrinsically not saying, Hey, who's the next person I could talk to? You always try to add that. That's just how network works. But you know, instead of How can I impress you? It's more What can I glean from this that's going to make me better at your job if I were to sit in your in your seat a year from now?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:02] Yeah, it's actually being genuinely curious. And it's as simple as that, and I really hope that it is. But it's and I always say, like the best time to network is when you don't need it, right? You always have to network or you need to network before you need the network. So, yeah, so tell me a little bit about like when you started networking, you kind of needed the network. How did you still come across it?
Barrett: [00:22:21] Just genuinely intellectually
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:23] Curious on these calls where they didn't
Barrett: [00:22:25] Feel like you were like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:26] Some desperate kid trying to just pine for an internship? I mean, and then just tell me, how did you actually get that? Like, how did
Barrett: [00:22:34] They just were impressed on that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:35] Second call that you came back and you were just talking smart intelligently about it? And did you did you write out and just be like, Hey, it'd be great just to sit next to you and just for the summer?
Barrett: [00:22:44] Or how did you kind of close, I guess? Well, actually, when I got intro, there was an internship that they were trying to open up. They were. It was OK. So it wasn't like I was.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:53] Hey, creating your own?
Barrett: [00:22:54] Got it. It's a lot harder. But it was. I had a good meeting with a financial advisor north of San Diego. And you know, I have a friend, Horacio, at HIV, who is thinking about taking an intern again. It was again more of a giving back than a value for the summer. And when I was able to met them, I think it was just really fortunate timing and, you know, showing that passion and showing that scrappiness, even though I knew less than nothing about a job that can come across. And I don't know how much you hear about this, but I would have to imagine a lot of those types of internships, the non structured ones where they don't have a yearly class, A lot of luck, a lot of time. And that's why you have to get a good, a good amount of numbers out there, but then focus on what makes those numbers quality.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:42] A good number of numbers, you mean, do you actually I have to be putting in the work to tell you, be coming? Yeah, to be even coming across
Barrett: [00:23:49] This is very random and infrequent. Because I think I think that internship was like six connections. It was like alumni network. And then I worked with someone who I used to talk to and the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:02] Seven degrees of separation or whatever, like truly. And I think that I mean, and like, it sounds very vanilla because I'm shortening it. But of those six connections deep, I'm pretty sure two or three were just like, like, I don't want to talk to this kid who
Barrett: [00:24:15] Guy pass the buck off it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:18] And you know, you could sit there like, just get rid of this call like I hadn't done with this kid. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, I don't want to give the impression that like, Oh, all my passion came through and oh, I was well researched on all this stuff. Like, I'm sure there were
Barrett: [00:24:28] Things that I said that people, on the other hand, were like, what is this kid blowing smoke on? Like, I don't even understand it. And one of the things that I actually got feedback on is I was overambitious in these things, so I came through and was like, Oh, what about this idea? What about this idea? And then it's like, you haven't done anything, and it's really hard to come from a position and start showing that excitement in a way that's genuine. But I mean, the wrong people. The wrong fit, I should say, are going to be that say, like, OK, you're way too ambitious. I'd rather have a kid come in, head over heels and start throwing me a million bad ideas and show that passion, then sit back and just do the textbook and try to tell me how much he or she knows. Right? Interesting.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:05] So, yeah, the textbook intro how much he or she knows. That that tell me about yourself that, you know, walk me through your resume, I think. Tell me about did you get that a lot in these
Barrett: [00:25:17] In these kind of informational
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:18] Kind of, we'll call them information for lack of it. You wanted to turn it into a conversation,
Barrett: [00:25:22] But you were
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:23] Smart enough to kind of try and turn it into a conversation. But did any of them try to have
Barrett: [00:25:26] You like, walk the walk you through
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:28] Their resume? And like, how did you approach that to
Barrett: [00:25:30] Steer it back to a conversation? Yeah, no, it was more it was less of, hey, like, tell me about your resume. It was more like, Hey, what if I give you some context about myself? First, I'll probably be a good place to start, and then I can hear your story. And that's how it usually works in these kind of things that the junior person that wants information. Well, here's how I take off. You could tell me a little bit about yourself and the person that's receiving the call then goes, and then you can have a conversation after you have like kind of level ground on background. Yeah, OK, that's kind of how it went best and most organically. And one thing that I think is really important I didn't learn this until deep into my June senior year, probably like early senior year, like investment banking recruiting the story that you tell matters. It's not checking boxes, it's a single narrative and everything else adds up to that area. And when you can tell the right story, that's genuine about you, that's not manufactured, that shows every single time and almost all of the conversations that that I had. On the other hand, when I was an investor making emails, I would always get that feedback. And I think that's extremely important because it's you could easily look at my resume and say, OK, hedge fund vc investment banking. Now I want to get invested, and now I want to get in DC just modern day. Why? But if you wrap that story up from head to toe, here's where my passions lie and notice in the beginning where I say, Hey, it's always kind of an entrepreneurship story. If you could filter those things along the line and weave the story as opposed to saying check, check, check. Now this is where I want to do so much more impactful and it comes through so much better. And I had I hear I hear kids do that in a really good way. People are really unique in how they got into certain situations. Got it, so you're saying.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:11] When you're when you're kind of taking calls or when you were taking calls from us USD students, when you were
Barrett: [00:27:19] At Davidson, did you feel like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:21] There was a lot of improvement there that could have been or
Barrett: [00:27:23] You felt like they were pretty, they were pretty polished.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:26] Obviously, it's a wide range, right? Some guys are like a disaster and huge range. And I think I think that students candidates know how to tell what they've done. Maybe there's a better way to say this, to say what I was saying before. Maybe it's more concise. People know how to say what they've done. It's hard to say why they've done it. And when you can weave those two together as a narrative, it shows a lot better. And the difference between
Barrett: [00:27:49] If you took three calls a week and you had, I'd say, one percent of the folks that I talked to would have that last notch instead of. Here's what I've done versus here's the narrative, and here's where I'm going. That's the biggest step, because you can have the goal in internships, the Apollo, internships, all that stuff. And if I don't know why you want to do something, the motivation and it's not just like tied up little neat bow, it's like, Oh, he or she has to be here next year. Like, I need to work with them next year and our technology team in the bullpen next to me. Then all of a sudden, things click and it sounds. It sounds like way too simple, but that happens because you're telling a narrative that you have carefully constructed, and that's genuine.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:29] How did you construct yours because like you said, you had the hedge fund, the VC? So tell me a little bit about how you move into that.
Let's jump. Let's jump to senior year. We can actually know. Let's go in order. So before we get
Barrett: [00:28:42] There and we can go back to the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:43] Narrative a little bit in terms of how you wove it together for your ivy recruiting. But so you get you do this internship over the summer sounds awesome. Like you're able
Barrett: [00:28:51] To sit there and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:52] Just hear and bounce ideas with
Barrett: [00:28:55] With the CIO. Sounds like of this. And then, yeah, it's less glorious. I mean, there's a lot of LP statement making and stuff like that, but I got to share his thoughts. And it was Brexit summer too, which was incredible to be a part of.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:08] Ok, so you kind of come back now junior year, correct? Yeah. And so are you thinking, is I be on the horizon here or what's the deal?
Barrett: [00:29:17] Did you even know
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:18] What investment bank like you need to know? Yeah, no. And in USD and I again, it's not a very sophisticated target.
Barrett: [00:29:26] It's not a target school for the reason because they're not in the tune of the
The schedule. Over 70 percent of USD kids go abroad their junior year, their first semester. That happens to be the most important time for high finance investing, banking, private equity, internships. Yeah, yeah, I was right. I was in Madrid. I came back and I very quickly realized I kind of thought I might be able to go back to a hedge fund that summer. But I maybe it hadn't clicked where I needed to go step by step by step, from hedge fund to VC to invest in making that Typekit. I don't think that really clicked in university Growth Fund is this fund that I was telling you about that came in through a professor and said, Hey, you might be interested in this and what it is for this. I don't know. It's a student of hedge funds, but 30 million life on the last one that I was a part of at least and not hedge fund. Sorry, VC. And they're based on Salt Lake. And their theory is they have two full time partners and their sourcing partners. They have really good connectivity in the Bay Area and Salt Lake City area and otherwise, and they have example experience before. And this is kind of the second part of their careers. And what they'll tell you is they think if they source the right opportunities that students can execute upon them and provide the right diligence. And if you filter that through a seasoned investment committee, you can develop a really strong portfolio. So our portfolio, their stuff that I work on individually, spotify twenty three and me know folks that came after us.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:55] You guys put money into that. You put money into those deals. Yeah. And again, awesome sub million dollar checks and co investing. But they have these co-investing relationships are really interesting. Yeah. So when we would get in, it'd be part of an SPV.
Barrett: [00:31:08] But at the end of the day, the ownership stake doesn't necessarily matter to the junior or the senior that's just trying to learn the industry. And why do we invest in what
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:16] And SPV special purpose vehicle? It's just an easier way to kind of group investors to get the right. Yeah, so you don't have to direct access to the CEO, but if you have access to the lead investor on the Series B, you can get into that as well. Sometimes if they're generous and there's a value proposition that interested your foreign students can add in terms of different market studies and surveys and projects that we would do regularly. Exactly. And kind of, again, the give back opportunity
Barrett: [00:31:43] When I won't get too much into it. But when a series Li is saying I have, I could give you eight hundred k of this allocation and I'm doing a 50 million dollar round to the student group. Like that might be enticing and is enticing for some. So but and the structure of University Growth Fund is incredibly interesting. You come in as an intern. Some of those interns after that summer will get held as associate. The associates are kind of the backbone of the fund and you think about on a day to day, week to week basis, it's producing investment mentors for everything from market size to the product market fit competitions. The financial model associate might have one or two of those on each investment memo, and then a select few will become senior associates if they've been there for three or four plus semesters, and then those are actually leading the deal. So the whole investment memo goes up filters through them. They help pitch it to the student group and then subsequently to the investment committee. If there is management calls and investor calls, they're leading those. It's a it's a principal level opportunity for senior college kids. That's all I called the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:47] University Growth Fund. And so they take students from all over the country know they focus on San Diego and Salt Lake City. Okay, so the Salt Lake City base, you view BYU probably other funds similar to
Barrett: [00:33:00] This, right? In terms of yeah, so they're the biggest one, but at least that that I've heard of and that we've heard of that fund. And, you know, it was a 30 plus million dollar fund, and they're raising they're trying to raise the next one. I don't know how big that one is going to be, but they've been fairly successful, especially with that model and the way to give back. And you know, they're
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:22] You're they're
Barrett: [00:33:23] Almost all junior year is that for 13 months about so I got there and. A twenty seventeen and left in maybe June 2017, I left in July. It was actually it's funny because we invest in Pinterest and I was our senior associate on that deal and our GP there was like, Hey, I wouldn't let you leave this deal if you want to, but you're graduating in like four weeks. You know, I don't want to make you work past your graduation. You already have a job, you have the job that that fall. And I was like, It's Pinterest. I want it. Yeah, so that's why my end date was actually July. So I had three weeks of between banking and that. But the exposure level and this is what you get from a program like that is you get out of it what you put into it. Very much so. I mean, if you want to skate through that program and put your name on a couple of investment memos, but do very small parts and or you can pour into it. And there's kids that do 20 30 ish hours A week and On top of classes on top of actual job and stuff like that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:19] It means like doing more the actual memo, writing it up, doing the research, doing the market, all that stuff to try. And like if you think about it, there's two different levels to that, right? Like, say, if you're an you of the market sizing section, you can go look at eBay says, and it's a 20 billion dollar market and you put that on the side and all of a sudden it took you an hour or you can really dig into it. You can the bottom up or top down build.
Barrett: [00:34:40] And you know, it's obviously shows, but it's your decision and you Won't get out Of that program What it can give you unless you put the time into
It. And there are some Incredibly scrappy and smart bright kids that come out of the program because of that, that enablement factor.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:57] So you got that kind of stuff on your on your resume by junior year. But tell me about and then you're Madrid
Barrett: [00:35:02] For your first semester or for the first Semester junior year. So I actually came back from Madrid and then they were hiring in the early First semester of my junior year and Twenty seventeen.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:13] So you got that, which was great. But tell me a little bit about at this point, when did you first hear about OK investment banking? Like, because it sounds like you were working with that fund through graduation. So one of the great things that your Industry Growth Fund does is they regularly have recruiters
Barrett: [00:35:28] Coming into information sessions. Davidson was one of those. And so we had, I mean, at a given time fund, you have between 20 and 30 Interns, whether they're Analyst or interns or associates or senior citizens. Right. And so like that call itself was like a 10 to 15 person one, and Davidson Has a couple of different divisions
Within it. They were giving info session on investor in equity research. That's what I learned about it from the first Time, honestly and followed up with the recruiter
After that call and said, this sounds awesome. It happened to be in Orange County or a from and it was, you know, the personality fit of the folks that were in that investment banking group was a fit and it was Honestly, people actually Laugh when I tell them this, I had one of us making interview. That was it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:12] It was. And so you've got this there's an info call.
Barrett: [00:36:15] You spoke with the you just called up the recruiter at Davidson. Yeah. So again, it was like a schedule, you know, people are going to get access. Yeah. And then she was nice enough to say, you know, if you're really interested, call me after this. And I think it was like, hang up, look up the number call. And immediately it was like, Ok, like they prioritize local kids. So, you know, Southern California University background grew up in Orange County. Yeah, it kind of checked those boxes. They use ferritin. Davidson does this, and I think it's smart. I think a lot of other middle market banks are doing this is they'll look away from the target schools and look at like the next year. That's right below that, maybe. And they'll look at like the best of the USDA is the Claremont McKenna is the U.S. sees the world versus, you know, the Claremont McKenna.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:03] Yeah, Claremont kind of licensing. That's a really good program. They license their courses
Barrett: [00:37:07] And they have like this little
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:08] Iby like 40 kids that go through it, that place pretty well. So it is nuts to start in full time analyst and talk to your other classmates and say, All right, well, what is your school do? And you hear about stuff like that. And it's like. Nothing, if I have any regrets on the USD wasn't having it, and USD places great
Barrett: [00:37:27] Accounting, but finance is something that they have yet to establish internally as the infrastructure, which is like they should U.S. is they should talk with absolutely should. And I'll put you in contact with someone in their development office. Yeah, we have.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:41] I mean, we don't go after it very much because just selling universities is kind
Barrett: [00:37:44] Of a nightmare. It's like a it's like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:46] A year and a half selling cycle. And we're we give
Barrett: [00:37:48] Such like we give such
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:50] Huge discounts. That's like, OK, all the efforts spent on that selling like we could Just sell margins aren't there? Yeah, we could just sell an extra five courses individually, and it's the same amount of money for like going through all that. Yeah.
Barrett: [00:38:02] So it's one of those
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:03] Things where like, it'd be great.
Barrett: [00:38:04] We want that. We've actually been
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:06] Partnering a lot more with
Barrett: [00:38:07] With student organizations because that's so easy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:10] And so we've been doing that. And to give you context, like I didn't have the investment banking club at USD when I was there. It's starting to get more and more because kids are just smarter. And there's also Oasis's is out there and they should start on. Yeah. The couple, so they
Did a year after our last. Yeah, yeah. Like, that's funny. There were four kids that and this is part of my senior year. This is actually after I got into did it or signed for D.A. Davidson. There is this national massive bank competition, which was hosted in
Toronto, an organization There's like 300 plus organizations. Thirty. Yeah, it was great.I loved it and we got we lost in the finals, so we presented it in the whole
Barrett: [00:38:45] Final gala, then lost to Queen's University when it was hosted by a panel of five Queen's University alumni. So I'm standing there, but it's pretty good to hear the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:53] Finals, though. Yeah, that's what was nuts as you had. I didn't know of a lot of investment bankers coming from before older than me, at least like immediately Older than me. And of those four folks on my team, it was my cell phone.
Barrett: [00:39:07] Davison one went to Thamel, one went to molas
And started messaging a couple of year after it and the other one to call it. So it was like, maybe there's something here with USC students. So they started the club a year after, and I think it's I know a lot of kids that are calling me now, OK, this is starting to mesh, but they're just figuring it out and hopefully they get further.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:27] We'll partner with the club first, then we have that. That's like, that's like a two emails and we're like Don. And then you have your
Barrett: [00:39:33] Target market, right? And it's a Lot it's a lot more refined. Very, very true. Ok, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:38] You're so you do one interview. So tell me about like the Super Day. Was it hard? Was it like, were they more
Barrett: [00:39:43] Just about fit and they knew you're a hard
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:44] Worker? And then they were happy and they're like, You're hired or no. It was. It was more of a traditional investment banking interview, and again, it was. I call the recruiter and then I had like two more calls. It was like, the timeline was crazy. I think we were a little late in as it was like a Monday call. I had a call with the recruiter on Tuesday, someone else on Wednesday, and they were like, Can you be here on Friday for the Super Day?
Barrett: [00:40:05] And this is this out of my control.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:08] So we were like starting players. I know all about it. I'm totally prepped for this. Absolutely not. I didn't know what the interview course is at that point. Or were you just digging online for anything you could get? I had a couple of friends from different schools that were in investment. Some of the study, the study, guys. So it was one of those things where they got thirty five hour mad dash to just being competent. And even then, like, I wasn't going into it, I never faked to be the perfect investment banking candidate. I always say, like, Hey, I know finance pretty well. And more specifically, I know it makes companies tick. And that was from the university Girl Fund. So I played that angle a lot more and I said, hey, you guys sell middle market technology companies or whatever companies that idea. I might not know how to run a DCF from head to toe, but I certainly know the high level management operational dynamics that make company either fail or succeed, and I know how to sell that. I think I can make the argument that I can make that I can sell that company. And again, Davidson is primarily an M&A group. So, you know, not having equity issuances in a massive capacity, at least on a day to day basis was why that actually played pretty well. And again, like that mad dash of thirty five hours or whatever it is, I'm the study guy. It's like a lot like you have to and I always say this is you have to check the
Barrett: [00:41:26] Boxes and then it's Like, OK, what's the X Factor or whatever It is and social, you know, market knowledge. Knowing your DCF being the model expert, you can develop into a lot of those things, though, but I think I think where we didn't
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:40] Oversell, you didn't oversell yourself and try
Barrett: [00:41:42] Never. I certainly didn't oversell myself.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:45] You didn't try to pretend like you were a technical wizard accounting. I was never and they had a technical, hourlong spreadsheet test, but it was more financial ratios and stuff like that which like, if
Barrett: [00:41:56] You took finance three to one, you probably do that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:00] And so you check that box, you weren't
Check that box. Yeah, but most of the conversations I had except for like that one
Barrett: [00:42:06] Would talk about this, that one like dreaded technical interview. Most of them were organic conversations about what makes businesses tick, fail, succeed whatnot, and I could have those conversations. I love those conversations, and because of that, I was able to kind of bring that through the whole they Ok. You probably just.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:22] Rushed those portions where they really loved you, but and then they're like, OK, technically he's not like the strongest. He missed that. Yeah, he missed that depreciation account, whatever. But you know, it's OK. Yeah, they asked. I asked the VP that my technical afterwards, I was like, Hey. So said, Work with you. Like I said, so I felt a little more comfortable with him and said, Hey, but what was some feedback? And he was like, you. Your tentacles were not where they needed to be, but we think you can develop into that.
Barrett: [00:42:51] And frankly, I did, because one Davidson has a really good training program and to the culture there is very building people up as opposed to you are my competition. So second yourself, first is an incredible way. The right associates help the right analyst in an incredible way. And VP's and what down and where Davidson does succeed really well in recruiting is actually at the senior level Variable, especially in Orange County. Like all of our senior VP and up are former bulge bracket guys. And they've seen it. They've gotten out of it, and so they can take the good parts of the bulge
Bracket and say, All right, let's Drop some of the harshest things and develop kids in a little more. Helpful way, I think, and then They also say, if we can do That, like in a better manner, we can hold on to this talent for a longer time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:43] So when did you actually get the offer during the senior senior year? I actually got it. It's funny because I transferred from Michigan. I think the week after my Super Day, Michigan State was playing in Ann Arbor and I was like, I'm going to go back and visit for that weekend. And they called me like Friday night, right when I got off the plane and they were like, Hey,
Barrett: [00:44:04] We have an offer for you. And I was like signed
And they were like, Well, do you want to hear it? And I'm like, Sure. Except on symbolic no. There is no test that I was very excited.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:14] That's awesome. That's awesome. So you're here, but that was when was that exactly what it was
Barrett: [00:44:19] Like a couple of First week of October? I want to say in Pretty
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:23] Early on and Early, and what I notice is banking press is getting airline earlier. Oh, it's
Barrett: [00:44:28] You. Yeah, yeah. That's like eventually
You're going to be offers.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:32] It's like sophomore years. Well, now private equity recruiting is like they hit the desk. I think actually, it's going to show up. Yeah, it's going to kick. It's what, August 18th today. And I'm predicting it's going this month before, I think last year.
Barrett: [00:44:45] No. But anyways, two years, two
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:47] Years ahead of when they actually start. Yeah. Ok, so you're so let's talk a little bit about that. That transition did. I hope you did something fun before you started your three week, three week gap between the Pinterest work and the
Barrett: [00:45:02] Idea
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:02] You just like? It sounds like it was a pretty smooth process. Were you nervous about not getting that?
Barrett: [00:45:06] Like, did you or your contingency contingency
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:08] Planning in your head if you didn't get that backing off? Or were you now like, I need to do banking? Or are you thinking about that at all?
No, it was never. It was never that. And frankly, like when I
Barrett: [00:45:20] Got into banking, I immediately, like, met the team and something on a daily basis was like, I could actually see myself doing this in a longer Term. But after the V-C internship, it was like light on fire. I know what I want to do long term. And in D.C., like everything is deal flow. Everything is what kind of deals you're able like you can. It's just there's a huge difference in deal flow about deal flow. And if I was coming from Usd, like realistically, if I was, you know, 4.0 took job and got the perfect score, whatever it was like, there's a very little chance that I was getting into a strong deal flow VC. so I knew The best way to get into that Candidacy or candidacy universe was to go to investment banking, develop The skills. And then it was actually, you know, pleasant that I actually enjoyed that experience and that team, that content. And I said just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:07] Because we've recruited for some VCs and some small family
Barrett: [00:46:09] Offices, and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:11] Sometimes they get mad at us
Barrett: [00:46:12] Because like W, so is
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:13] So banker heavy. And we'll like send them some incredible candidates from like making that want to get into VC. And they're just like, no, there's no like accelerators or VC. So you'd be fine because you had that university growth fund on your résumé. But. And it's like internships in VC is like, why would you do it? Like even startup experience, they wanted to see something like about startup universe. And I get that. That's fair. I totally get that. So and then like, I come back to the narrative point that maybe already be dead, but it was there those things? Yeah, don't worry about something. I will kind of dog, what kind of dog? I too got an English game golden retriever and then a Newfoundland, which is as big as you, is just big.
Barrett: [00:46:51] And that's a lot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:53] Yeah, it sounds like. Yeah, and they'll wake you up. They do your alarm clock in the morning for you. But what doesn't say is, like then once I got into baking, I could say it was that first time I
Barrett: [00:47:05] Could be like, OK, I could Actually learn the technical skills that you need me to get to. I had the qualitative I needed to do the quantitative. And so like Two years later, when it came to VC recruitment, that was my narrative. I went into investment Banking because I Wanted to get into VC. I have some VC experience, albeit internship experience. This is the narrative I tell. I told, and it came through because it was genuine. Like I had that experience. The light switch went on.
I knew I Wanted to do it, and then I went and made myself better through investment banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:35] Ok, let's talk a little bit about banking this. It sounds like it was a great experience for you. Were the hours like 70 plus 80 plus?
Barrett: [00:47:41] Was it? Yeah, it's not New York or San Francisco. Banking is what I what I was told when I was taking calls is it's like realistic hours, but like reasonable hours, like you were on average seventy five and you peaks in your valleys. But like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:59] That's a lot. It's a lot of hours. It's a lot of hours. And don't get it wrong if you're working on the OK, but I always say it's seventy five bad hours
Barrett: [00:48:06] Versus have good hours or is a huge difference. So if you are doing buyers less and scraping LinkedIn's and whatever, that might not be the most seventy five fun hours. But if you're actually putting together, making the model doing this quality hours that can build your skill set at the same time you are on the calls of the buyers and doing whatever that is and not M&a land, that's going to be a lot better of a
Lifestyle. And I actually joined our data and technology group at a very fortunate time. I think we were six or seven. I might have been our six or seven headcount by the time I left two years later. Twenty two. They were growing really quickly. I got in when we were really resource constrained on the associate level. So what that meant, I was working on a lot of deals that were like maybe MD VP analyst only. Yeah. And the MDS Sourcing. And so it's Vp
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:56] And it's you. It's basically you in the EVP. Yeah, and I had a great VP is a former Goldman guy, a former merchant banker, too. So he got it. And you quickly to yeah. And other great
Barrett: [00:49:06] Directors. I mean, there was no one in that group that wasn't. Great to tell you the truth. But I had a very good experience because of that, and if he trusted me, which I would like to say at a certain point you would like, he would let me take some of the bias calls. And all of a sudden, like I say, like, you don't understand a business until you try to sell it. And those investors in those private equity investors like we sold them the private equity a lot. They'll ask you tough questions. And once you start realizing what they're going to ask, you really understand how to meet with a business, how to talk To an operator and relay that information. Because a lot of what the banker does is like, tell the founder, CEO, the owner, whatever it is, this is what investors are going to look at, whether or not we care about that, this is what they care about. And so understanding that just made you a better banker, a better commercial, and you kind of already
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:54] Had some of that. Like, you already had some of that insight, if you like for just looking at the metrics, know unit economics, all that good stuff that you probably were trained on Qualitative stuff that, like you say,
Barrett: [00:50:05] And again and again When we were, we were selling mid-market tech companies like to tell you to. It's like some of them were great margin companies, but a lot of them were cash flow negative. And all of a sudden it's like you can model whatever GCCF you want to do. But if you can't tell the story of two times, two times three growth over the next three years, no private equity, no growth or private equity buyer worth their salt is going to listen to your call.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:29] Fair enough. Fair enough. Ok, so you're going through this. At what point are you thinking I got the skills now that I wanted? When am I going to start looking? All right. You know, what are you?
Barrett: [00:50:41] Are you kind of you're
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:42] Keeping still networking asking the question. You wrote this whole Throughout these whole two years, like, what's the thought process?You know, honestly, I was I was way more head down than you might expect someone who got into. I really liked our team and I really liked what I was doing there. I live in North County. I saw, you know, 10 20, whatever a year, hopefully not 50 year retirement plan, but I saw a future in investment banking.
Barrett: [00:51:05] And it wasn't Until I went into and got thrown some opportunities, whether it was from my former girlfriend. They're like, Hey, you probably look at this or recruiter reaching Out and like actually putting an option in front of my face. I was like, oh, I forgot, like, I really wanted to do this, and I sill really want to do it. I got in contact with phenomenal recruiter at Hunter and show me a couple of things throughout, probably like a 12 month timeline. And you know, the recruiter matters. You know, there's a couple of ways to do it. You can do the networking and try to go to the higher director like recruiters are really good at what they do and the right VC's hire recruiters, Vcs, private equity, whatever it is, especially if it's not. I think and I'm not the expert here, but I think especially if it's not a class hire. So it's like, Hey, we're
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:51] Taking there's this one person we're looking is
One we're taking it and recruiters indices
Barrett: [00:51:56] Like they typically hire outwards A little bit. So not recruiters, but like recruiter processes. It's less, hey, we want to associate for three years. It's like, Yeah, we want to assist you for three years. But like, also, what maybe could they do for us in the future? Can they grow to a higher role than that? And so those are long Processes, and I had a great recruiter and it was one of those good relationships Where it was like, Hey, this Might not be the best fit for you. It's not just to run your resume and everything. It's like, Yeah, let's let you do your day job, which is seventy five Plus hours. And then the ones that I took a little more targeted appreciate the ones that are like the good fit that don't require the bulge bracket resumé. I went really, really hard for those, and there were a few that I thought I was going to get that I didn't get. Vc is an absolute crap show. That's what I realized very Quickly on, and this was a fortunately great fit.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:48] Perfect. And so, yeah, you were basically just
Barrett: [00:52:51] Kind of, you know, not
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:52] Not in a rush trying to find the right place. And when you found the right place, you pushed hard. But would you say you made
Barrett: [00:52:57] It to like a three
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:58] Final rounds before kind of that first offer that
Barrett: [00:53:00] Yeah, there were in funnel rounds and VCR a little less structured, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:04] So you don't feel like you're in a final rut. You think you're in the final round. It's like, Yeah, I'm just kidding, you have three more. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there were several processes where it's like I had eight plus conversations and I had no idea where it was in the process. And like, I can only tell you so
Barrett: [00:53:18] Much like there were times where it was like, yeah, like we got to the end of our cycle and we didn't hire anyway. It's what they do. It's fair, it's their prerogative. They're looking for a really good fit. And then also throw in the little curveball that was COVID in the middle of our recruitment. Like that was absolutely crazy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:34] Yeah. So what kind of do you mind talking a little bit about like range of pay, given it's a boutique like, you know, you don't give exact numbers, but is it? I'm guessing and tell me if I'm
Barrett: [00:53:43] Way off like base
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:44] Of around 70 to 80 for this is for sure. Yeah, for banking a couple of years, I'm saying like seven to 80 like bonus, 50 percent ish.
Barrett: [00:53:54] Is that fair? Yeah, that's all right. Yeah. And then they made a step upwards to try to be a little more competitive, like a five K bump in all of their first second. So it's a three year program, actually David it to and they said
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:06] Where they have said it all that you jumped or they were supportive. The vast majority were very supportive, but like you're always especially when people like pour into
Barrett: [00:54:15] You the development aspect and like not
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:17] Have any man and my VP, same thing. When I left, he's like, he's like, Come on, it's like, Yeah, my dick is actually great about it because I think he had the experience. But again, like
Barrett: [00:54:27] When certain people put a lot into you and they tell your face, like, we get to see you here a long time, like, I don't blame them for one second, for being like, Come on. Yeah, yeah. And again, you're not like a year in and all of a sudden you're like, Oh, guys, just a heads up, I might want to do it like, you don't have this conversation. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:46] Do you feel like? You tell me about what you feel in terms of just how you view. Your career mapping, because like you said, you put your head
Barrett: [00:54:56] Down, you're obviously
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:57] Doing a great job. They saw you develop those technical skills. You were doing well. I assume you're well ranked and
Barrett: [00:55:02] The group is growing and it's everything sounds like it's great, like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:06] You're probably going to get that associate, promote or direct associate, promote, maybe not have to go get the MBA. Yeah. So there's a lot to be said, like you even said yourself, like,
Barrett: [00:55:15] I could see a career here in banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:17] So tell me, like how you
Barrett: [00:55:20] Viewed like VC in
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:22] Terms of like a career
Barrett: [00:55:23] Like obviously
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:24] It's interesting and there's like the deer deal flow aspect of VC. Like you said, you wanted to get to a place with like where you like. Is there any concern or
Barrett: [00:55:35] Fear
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:37] In terms of like I'm taking a higher beta, a higher risk of higher risk? I mean, especially when you're already in the place and you already feel like you have like a foothold in the group and her role in the group. And like, you don't have to necessarily
Barrett: [00:55:52] Like push harder on the gas to get there, like you're going to get there as long as you don't feel the gas. No, that was a risk. And I think it came down like a very overly simplistic view. It's like, do you want to sell the billion dollar company or do you want to find that pre-seed Company that turns into billion dollar company and sell the long term? And for me, like where I found myself as a banker, it was like I always wanted to have those conversations with founders like, Hey, how did you get from here to here? Like, where can you get the next Three years as opposed to like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:23] Earlier state? You wanted to get there? I want to be their advisor.
Barrett: [00:56:27] And I think you talk to the best. It was the best podcast out there. The best ones are the best board advisors at the end of the day and their
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:35] Investors are the best way to do the best for members and advisors. And literally, just like someone that you can call when you're raising the next round,
Barrett: [00:56:42] You need a good introduction to the right VC as opposed to just any 10 15 million dollar check. It's the right 10 15 million dollar check. And you know the best VCs are the ones that. Enjoy the advisory role as much as the investing girl. Yeah, that's cool. I think that was the question I had to ask.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:01] Yeah, you kind of knew. Yeah, you said, you know, I could do this and I'd probably be
Barrett: [00:57:05] Happy I'd do well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:07] And but they'd always be kind of that thought of, Hey, maybe I should have gone to DC. Yeah. And listen, like this could be a different. I could have a different perspective, like a couple of years ago. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe 04. That might change, but let's hope that's not the case. Tell me about that thought process of like being able to leave and then come back. Do you feel
Barrett: [00:57:24] Like that group would potentially
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:27] Be open to it and down the road? Maybe you want to go. Yeah, that was a month ago. Yeah. So no doubt. Yeah, knows right now.
Barrett: [00:57:34] Yeah, but I mean, I've had I've had very candid conversations with those folks like, I don't care what capacity it's in, like we want to work together in the future. And I think if you leave every business relationship like that, good things will happen and your network will grow and it won't. You won't burn those bridges for sure, man.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:52] Hopefully, yeah, any other words of wisdom in your short career that you would like to kind of share with the listeners that I've heard of, some of the younger guys and gals out there. And yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it really comes down to like I can. Maybe we touched on this in the beginning, but
Barrett: [00:58:08] Like and it's so corny, it's the passion economy, though you have to make it with your own. Don't go into the job because the money don't go into the job because of the name and what your dad or your mom told you do, or, you know, to work two years and anything are worth something you don't know whether that's making or whether that's renting surfboards in Orange County, right? Like, don't do anything you don't actually want to do because it will leave you in that step back as that step forward. So I've seen it a million times, and fortunately, I have been able to not go down that road. I've liked the things that set me up for the future, hopefully.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:47] Any advice for people who are kind of at non targets and they don't get that banking offer and they're kind of
Barrett: [00:58:52] They're like, let's say they weren't
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:55] As aggressive, they're not as
Barrett: [00:58:56] Well-spoken on those interviews where they're able to, you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:59] Maybe they're a little nervous in
Barrett: [00:59:00] The interviews. Absolutely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:02] They're passionate about and
Barrett: [00:59:03] They want it. But like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:04] Let's say they get it into their senior year,
Barrett: [00:59:05] They have nothing lined up. What would you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:07] Suggest for those people? It's a great question. I think I think when we look at investment banking specifically
Barrett:: [00:59:15] And then like what comes after that's making, whether that's by side or whatever it is, there seems to be very defined roles. And I think that's only for the bulge bracket. The truth. I think that there are people willing to listen to a very unique story and whether that's going to an MBA or starting your own company or owning a startup. There are so many other opportunities that make you that make you a good candidate, if not a better and more unique candidate. I think always ask the question like in that person's job. What are the skills that make them not just like competent but good? And a lot of the questions are not or a lot, a lot. A lot of answers to that question or going operator can get you the same skills as I got as whatever, right? If you want to go work for a startup or a grocery company, there are so many of those out there and you can go be a business Development representative and in the first 30, the startup and get better experience than I got into your thinking. End of story. So I think there's a lot that if you really know that, that's what you want to do, there's a lot more ways into it than we think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:16] When you say no, what you want to do mean banking or just fine, whether it's banking or whether finance is a good example because it just feels like there's like these. Yeah, finance, it feels. Yeah, finance feels. It's like very defined. Like if you don't do banking, then you should do like transaction advisory services at a big four. If you don't do transaction by service, maybe you do like a corporate finance or flight program or whatever.
Barrett: [01:00:36] And so like, it does feel kind of like these like stages where,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:39] Yeah, I think there's something to be said, where it's more about the skills you're
Barrett: [01:00:44] Developing, whether that be being like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:46] Are you getting the technical skills or you're doing any of that modeling? And there's a lot of self study.Yeah, I mean, like programs like we had Davidson, they did a Wall Street Wall Street away. So it's like there are and like that, like also reading literature as Courtney Town, like read barbarians and gates like read stuff like that. Like actually understand what people are talking about instead of just like four hundred page study guides. Yeah. I want to get to banking and they're like, Why?
Barrett: [01:01:12] And you're like, coz
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:13] I like looking at companies and analyzing and you hear too much.
Barrett: [01:01:18] Yeah. And it's and it's just it comes through too much and yeah, know again. So like, look at skills and look at all the different places you can get them. And I think that the right people, which hopefully are the people that are hiring, will find that great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:32] I think we'll call it there. Barrett, thanks so much for taking the time to join us and share your wisdom. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com.
Barrett: [01:01:47] And till next time.
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