WSO Podcast | E147: IB at Credit Suisse in London to VP at a MM Private Equity
About
In this episode, "Max" shares his path on how he broke into investment banking in London coming from a non-target school in Italy. Learn how networking played a role, how he made the cut during a competitive intern year with an offer rate under 50% and how he was able to close 10 deals in under 4 years once he joined full time. Listen to his struggles with private equity recruiting and how he balanced the difficult process with his full-time banking role to successfully land on his feet
WSO Mentor
Want to work with Max? Check out his profile here!
Or Listen to the Podcast Here:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Stitcher
Resources:
WSO Podcast (Episode 147) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, Max shares his path on how he broke into investment banking in London, coming from a non target school in Italy. Learn how networking played a role, how he made the cut during a competitive intern year with an offer rate under 50 percent and how he was able to close 10 deals in under four years once he joined full time. Listen to his struggles with private equity recruiting and how he balanced the difficult process with his full time banking role to successfully land on his feet. Enjoy. All right, Max, welcome to the Wall Street Voices podcast.
Max: [00:01:03] A Patrick has to be here with you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:05] It'd be awesome if you could just start just by giving the listeners a short summary of your bio.
Max: [00:01:10] Sure. So yeah, I've studied my university in Italy. It was a corporate management. And then after that, I moved to London. I worked in Credit Suisse Investment Banking for four years. It was like an amazing experience because, you know, I had the chance to work for different teams. So product teams, but also industry teams. So overall, you know, in four years, I had the chance to work on 10 transactions, also across different countries, you know, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, UK and across different products. So clearly a lot of M&A buy-side and sell side, but also ECM, DCM, leveraged finance. So a really rewarding experience.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:01] Of income for free. And then after that transition to PE, correct?
Max: [00:02:08] Yeah. Correct. So then after so you know, of course, you know, I had an internship, then started as a full time analyst in Credit Suisse, got promoted to associate. And then at the end of my fourth year, I found a job for a lower midcap firm. So it's a company. It's a recently established firm with offices in London and New York. You know, I am happy to tell you more about it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:37] Sure. So let's start all the way back, though. First, that your university. So tell me about, you know, did you always know you wanted to be an economics or business major or how did you kind of come across that? It was it was investment banking on your radar back then?
Max: [00:02:50] You know, it's funny because I'm probably one of the few people that didn't even know what investment banking was back then. What I knew, you know, after my school, you know, of course, I wanted to go to university and then, you know, had a book with all the different degrees. And then I started going through it. And , you know, at the end, the one that looked more interesting for me or the broader one probably was, you know, doing something with economy management because I think that, you know, unless you have like a great idea of what you want to do, then probably choosing that path, it's the one that gives you, you know, more options in the future. Hmm. So that's up.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:34] Yeah, yeah. Tell me a little bit about just your your university. Was it considered like a feeder into investment banking in Italy because it was only a few? Right? There's only a few left school.
Max: [00:03:44] Yeah, no, exactly. There are a few targets. School and mine was in one of these, but it's a very well known and, you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:53] Respected academic.
Max: [00:03:54] Yes. Yes, exactly, exactly. I think you know, what helped me to get my internship in investment banking was, first of all, you know, I got with maximum marks cum laude. Then I had an entrepreneurial experience. I was also very active in charity. I was like playing golf at the national level. So I think that, you know, it complimented my profile, even though I was not one from one of these target university. And that's why they had like a four.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:26] You had like a 4.0 GPA. Basically, you had like a perfect GPA. So you're at the top of your class at a well respected university. So that got and then you also were almost a semi-pro golfer, it sounds like. Correct. Correct. Or almost pro?
Max: [00:04:40] Not. And never got pro, but close. Almost. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Do you still play? Yeah, I do not as often, but I still do it with some friends and even colleagues. You know, that's the cool thing about golf. There are a lot of people playing, so you like to find it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:54] You like to just kick everyone's ass in your company.
Max: [00:05:00] Yeah, yeah. I try.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:02] I try to tell me about the entrepreneurial endeavour. I think a lot of the listeners would be curious about that. So while you're in while you're in university, you started something.
Max: [00:05:10] Exactly. So we have a bunch of friends. We came up with this platform for amateur soccer player. So it's a sort of imagine I mean, we're talking back then it was 2010, 2011, right? So, you know, Facebook and all the social media, of course, they were already there. They were quite famous, but not as they are now. And so what we saw that it was an opportunity to, you know, people playing
Max: [00:05:36] Soccer. And, you know, when you don't want to do it, you need to find a beach football beach. You need to organize it with people and you need to call. It was very manual. And also the tournaments, for example, were done very, you know, everything was on paper. So we developed these this online platform very similar with on the Facebook interface. And then the idea was, you know, to launch it. So we raised some money. And, you know, we were doing this while we were studying and we started, you know, selling the product because the idea was to go to the whatever who were the managers of the sports facilities, but also the event organizer and selling them. This is a managerial tool for them. At the same time, you know, we were getting data from the users. So that was like an amazing experience. If you think about it, we were just students and we started from basically an idea, right? And so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:29] It was it just a mobile app where people could say there are different pitches in the app that would say, imagine?
Max: [00:06:35] Yeah, sorry, search engine. You start looking for a football pitch in your area and then from there you say, OK, you create like an event and then you share it with your friends, you invite them and maybe you know you don't have enough people for them, but there are other people in the area that they would like to play. Same day, same hour. So then you could invite them. So it was a way, you know, to bring people together. And of course, you were getting a lot of data from those users and you were making it fun for everyone and saving them a lot of time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:05] Very cool. So did it. Did it get any traction?
Max: [00:07:08] Look, indeed, at the beginning, then, of course, as most of the start up, you need to raise a lot of money because at the beginning they're all cash negative. And that was at the point where you know, we were, you know, almost done with our studies and we start getting like all of us good offers either, you know, I got it in investment banking, as you know, other people got it in consulting. And that was the time, you know, 2011, particularly Italy. It was not like a great moment. So we felt, you know,
Max: [00:07:38] We had like this great job secured and take the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:41] Security issue and coming out of the great
financial crisis. Correct. Yeah. Ok, so let's talk a little bit about kind of how you landed that internship, did you? You said you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:50] Got looks because you had a high GPA and you had some other interesting things that made you unique in tech, including the semi-pro golf
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:57] And stuff like that. Did you just apply online or how did you even recruit your network? How did you How did you do it
Max: [00:08:03] So. Look, I think it's above everything in the sense that, yeah, mainly was the online application. But then of course, you know, and that's my suggestion for everyone that wants to apply to investment banking is, you know, the best way that if you find someone within the bank, first of all, because you want to learn and they will give you great insights. But at the same time, you know, it's a way to, you know, if I know you and I know that you're good, then I will go to my H.R. and tell them, You know, guys, I know this. This guy is very good. We should look into it in
Max: [00:08:36] This profile and see if it's if it's a good match.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:39] So it's tough in London, though, like it's much more strict in terms of the networking. Do you feel that way or is it what's it like in Italy?
Max: [00:08:47] I don't know in Italy, because I've always applied. Right? Yes, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:52] Like London, isn't it more strict like they forced everyone to go through to get even a first round interview? Don't you have to do you? Do you do?
Max: [00:09:00] But then I'm sure that you can. Also, when I was at my time, you know, if I knew that there was some, some guy or girl out of university with very strong that I think it could be a good fit, then you know, I would, I would, you know, give a call to a child and then, you know, of course, it's up to them, but also for them, you make their life easier, you know, because they have a lot of candidates. And if you are a person that is well trusted within the bank, then I'm sure they will consider it. Yes, you will get an offer. Yes, for all,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:29] All the London, all the London monkeys out there that complain that networking doesn't work in London. It's not true.
Max: [00:09:36] You know it is. It is important. It is not new.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:38] It's not. I think in the U.S., I think people see like these crazy stories that people with low GPA being able to network their way into a first
round interview from like a non target. And that's, I think, maybe a little more rare, like you need to have the stats.
Max: [00:09:52] I think I think, look, if I if I didn't have all the good marks, my entrepreneurial experience, the charity, the sports and everything, I think it would have been tough for me, even I knew.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:04] So let's do a thought experiment. What if you had like, OK, you're you know? Basically, 4.0, let's say you had a 3.0 GPA or, you know, instead of one 10 out of one 10 or whatever, you are like 80 out of 110, so pretty mediocre, pretty average. Do you think you could have gotten a first round interview
Max: [00:10:23] From non-targeted university? I think from your school, from your school? Yeah, I think it would have been difficult.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:30] You think people just would have said, sorry, it's just we don't recruit there. They would have been less likely to take phone calls, stuff like that. But putting yourself in that shoes, knowing what you know, do you think you would have been able to do it like I land and maybe not at a credit squeeze, maybe not at a bulge bracket, but maybe in another bank?
Max: [00:10:45] Maybe in another bank? Yes. Maybe another bank? Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:49] Just curious, because I always I always find that interesting. Ok, so you had a little bit entrepreneurial experience coming into the.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:56] Coming into kind of your junior summer, you ended up blending an internship, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:01] The first interview, how did you even know? Did you get interviews at other
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:05] Banks for four internships?
Max: [00:11:07] Yeah, so I applied to different banks and then it was for the autumn internship. And then they
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:14] Where are you calling people before then like at the banks to talk to them?
Max: [00:11:18] So I knew someone and some of the I had some friends that were already working in London in other investment banks. And so then of course, before I called them and I also meet them and asked them, you know, to help me to prepare. So what are the questions that they ask?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:33] Did they go to your school or something? How did you know them? Network, how did you networks LinkedIn? No. But also,
Max: [00:11:42] You know, we you know, I grew up in a small town in the north of Italy, and I don't know, I don't say by chance, but you know, those guys that ended up working in other banks like JP Morgan, goldman, Deutsche, where they were from my town and they were from one of these target universities. And so, yeah, they knew me.
and that's also, you know, the reason why I started applying for investment banking was because of that because, you know, I was more for consulting, you know, the likes of Bain and McKinsey and Synergy, exactly. But because they all were doing investment bankers and I said, OK, why don't you guys tell me more, you know,
Max: [00:12:22] And then say, Oh, actually sounds interesting.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:24] So these were actual friends of yours that were older or that had kind of or yeah,
Max: [00:12:29] One or one or two years older than me. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So they were quite fresh,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:35] But you didn't have like you didn't have any consulting friends that were trying to pull you over or just less. There just happened to be more bankers from your town. Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:42] Yes, that's correct. For me, that type of thing. Yes. So how much? So how many other internship interviews did you have from?
Max: [00:12:49] So I had to. So in total, I had three interviews and I ended up then having an offer from Credit Suisse. And you know, you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:02] Know, there are two you didn't you didn't have offers from the other two. Do you remember where you interviewed?
Max: [00:13:05] Yeah, JP and Deutsche, OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:09] And then, sorry, I keep interrupting you. I just find this part's really important because I think hearing about like, how you had friends, do you feel like with
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:17] Those connections that you had if your GPA was lower, we said this, you don't think you would have been able to land that Credit Suisse because coming from
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:24] That non from that non-traditional school, it would have been too much.
Max: [00:13:27] I think it would have been more difficult. Again, as I was telling you, network can help sometimes. Yeah, yeah. But then you know, we do
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:36] That first round interview with that guy calling air like your friend calling air, maybe. And then you would have done really well. No, I
Max: [00:13:42] Think I would. I would, in any case, because I got it from the other banks. And you know, my friends back then, you know, my friends back then they were just analysts. I don't think that that would have changed a lot, right? I think you need to go. Ideally, you should have someone a bit more senior. Ok, fair. Sorry. I keep going.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:56] So, so you. Yeah, you had the internship. You landed the internship with Credit Suisse and then you're accelerating.
Max: [00:14:03] Yeah, so it was a very, you know, quite tough period, because, of course, you know, it's very competitive. There are a lot of people and not that many spots available. So you really need to work very
Max: [00:14:17] Hard, show everyone that you have what they want, that you can do the job. And you know, for me, the most important thing, and that's what I like about it, is that people don't judge you. For at least, that was my
Max: [00:14:30] Experience in Credit Suisse, right? But they don't judge you for
Max: [00:14:33] Who you are when you start the internship, but for who you became at the end of the internship, for example.
Max: [00:14:39] You know, when I started, for me, it was my first internship in investment banking and with me in my class, there were people that had maybe done another one or two internships and other banks. So for them, you know, they already they already knew everything, right? Because more or less that, you know, they're very similar the way they teach you. And. And so for them clearly was very easy to do everything. But I was starting from zero. You know, I didn't know what public comparables were when I started. It was these guys have already done it for four months, you know? Yeah. So but what really counted and the reason why I got I got the offer is because maybe I started from a lower level than other people. But then by the end of the internship, I was probably better than those guys, or at least at the same level. And that's
Max: [00:15:23] Something that so they really saw the step that I did from beginning to the end, and that's something that they really liked
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:29] And tell me about what when you say as good or better, what would you qualify as the most Important thing to be classified as a good intern or great intern? Well, I see the growth is super important. But is it demonstrating modeling skills?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:44] Is it communication? Tell me how you tell me how you? Yeah.
Max: [00:15:47] Yeah, I think it's it's a 360 approach, right? So of course you need to find again, as I as I told you, it's fine if you don't know things at the beginning, but then people want you to be quick. So learn quick. Sure that you understood and you can do it. So that's important. And of course, you need to be very committed.
Max: [00:16:05] You know, there are a lot of very smart kids that, you know, maybe since they were at university, they wanted to do investment banking and then when they when they joined and they realized that is not for them, maybe because they don't like the pressure, they don't like the hours, they don't like the environment and people notice that people that work with you understand if you really are, if you are enjoying your internship, if you are motivated, you need to be a team player. You know, I remember basically I was one of the first in my team to get in in the morning. So usually eight forty five am. Usually people start from 9:00 onward, right? I was eight, forty five and I was the last one to leave. And I remember times, you know, at 2:00 a.m.
Asking for other analysts or resources that they were maybe very busy working on our life or something and asking them if they needed my help. You know, and that's something that people appreciate, right? And maybe there was nothing that I could help them because maybe it was something too complicated for me as an intern. But still, I was there.I could have gone home without saying anything whilst I was. So attitude is very important.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:07] Yeah. So you're willing to basically suffer for the internship to make sure that you had You were seen as a team Player willing to willing to sacrifice and help everyone out? That's great, if I could
Max: [00:17:18] Not, but I think it's very important at the beginning and that's my suggestion to everyone, To whoever starts an internship or even a full, full time analyst role. You know, the first month are the most important in your banking career because that's when you when people get to know you and when you create your own brand. So if you start it with the right foot, then everything gets easier in the longer term.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:48] Yeah, this is why I always say the kids that come in with the financial modeling training. I mean, I came from a liberal arts background. I was I was a disaster like for the first six months of I was at Rothschild in New York and we were eventually I got put on the restructuring team and I had the right attitude. I'll work really late. I just didn't have the skill set.It took me four or five
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:08] Six months to really get. And then once I was there, Boom, I put out, you know, I was Really well trusted and put on a lot of deals, live deals. But I think it's hard if you don't have the background. I mean, you had a little Bit of the finance. I assume Some modeling or yeah, but
Max: [00:18:22] Not that much. You know, I've done some corporate finance courses at university, but it was mainly management other departments. I mean, you're four points now. Exactly. But also remember, they teach you everything you need to know during those weeks of training. So if you pay attention to learn in a couple of weeks, you're up to speed, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:44] Yeah, yeah, for sure. Cool. So, OK, so you're kind of coming through and. It's funny you're up to speed unless you're like me, who is slower than year,
Max: [00:18:55] But it's worked out well for you as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:58] It worked out well, it worked out well. I was I did well by the end, but it was. It was a painful first six months. So you're you're kind of coming out, you're really sacrificing. I noticed that your internship was October to December. Is that normal? It's the autumn Internship, so the way it works in In,
Max: [00:19:14] I don't know now, but I guess it's more or less the same, but at least at my time it was a summer and autumn Internship before they Were probably doing also spring internship, even though probably Was a was a smaller internship.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:28] So how many? So you talked about a couple of things you said. It's super competitive. So about how many people were with you and how many seats were available?
Max: [00:19:35] Yeah, look, the class. What about is smaller than the summer class usually. So we were about 20 People, but
Max: [00:19:41] We the I think less than 10 people got a got an offer
Earlier. Wow.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:48] Yeah, I mean, it was a pretty tough year, right? You're still thousand twelve ish, so.
Max: [00:19:53] Exactly, exactly. So, you know, they recovered. Yes. Correct.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:57] Correct. Ok. Ok. So pretty competitive. And you were one of those people, even though you didn't have previous background. That's impressive that you actually were able to snag one of those spots.
Max: [00:20:07] Thank you.
But so you're kind of coming into this and then thinking,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:11] Wow, that was a really tough
That was a really tough Fall. And then coming into it, you get one
Of those offers. Do you accept right Away or do you Think, Hey, I'm going to go, you do breaks
Max: [00:20:22] Up right away, OK? No. Yeah, I accepted it right away. And then I had some time off and then I started in the next year in July.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:30] Ok, so you didn't go back to school at all, or that was
Max: [00:20:32] It, that was. No, I was already done. In my case, I was already done
with school. Yeah, yeah. But most of the people, actually, they do their internship during their last year of university. So yeah, yeah. So then you're kind of have a little time off.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:43] What did you do in that time off before knowing, knowing what it was like as an intern, knowing what the analysts were doing? What did you do? Yes.
Max: [00:20:49] So first of all, the month after I had some time off, so, you know, enjoying, you know, I went back home, spent time with, you know, family, friends and then before starting, I, you know, I had a lot of time again. I was done with my study, so I decided I didn't want to waste time and
Max: [00:21:06] I need to think so. You know, as I as I told you before, I was working, even before Credit Suisse. And so when I was at university, I was working for a charity. So in those months I continued working for a charity. And then I also went to Spain and I spent two months there learning the language. You know, at the end of the day, you know, if you're Italian doesn't take you a lot of time to learn Spanish. So it was, yeah, it was. It was a good use of my time and learn another language, which, by the way, it was. It ended up being a great idea because when I started working as a full time analyst, I spent a lot of time, particularly during my first year working with the Madrid office. So that was great, you know, I mean, of course, you can do it as well speaking in English. But you know, if you can speak the local language, it's I think it's you connect better with your colleagues and also with the clients. So it's a plus. So I'm happy I did that for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:02] That's interesting. Yeah. So you didn't really take too much of a break, it sounds like, but you stayed busy. Yeah, yeah. So, OK, tell me what was like those first few months starting so they put you through training and then, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:14] Everyone's nervous. How many people are starting with you?
Max: [00:22:17] Yeah, training about 50 people back then. It was great, you know, because of course, it's you work hard also getting the training because you have, you know, lessons every day. And then once you're done, you have like homework and so you end up finishing in the evening depending on how quick you are. But also, it's great because you know, you are in a class with 50 people or more that come from all around the world with very interesting background. Most of the people are new to London, so everyone wants you to get to know each other have, you know, start friendships. So we spent a lot of time, our free time, you know, going out, getting to know each other. So we were going for restaurants, we were going clubbing. So a lot of it was not. Yes. Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:07] And how long did that last before the reality of work hit a month? I think the training
Max: [00:23:13] Was about a month or a month and a half. I don't remember exactly now. And yeah, then straight to the desk. And then I must say it was another six months where a very, very hard work because again, as I was telling you, it's you know, first of all, you are not as quick as you would like to be because again, you're quite new, you're doing new things, modelling and stuff like that. And also at the same time again, you want to establish your brand so you want to do everything the best way you can. And that said, it will take a bit longer, right? But then at the end, it pays off so you know, my suggestion to everyone is, you know, I know it's a difficult start for most of us, but really in the long term, it pays off. I'm very glad I did that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:06] In those first few months coming out on the hitting the desk. Did you feel like? You are in the middle of the pack in terms of skill level near the top. You can be honest. No one knows who you are. So. Yeah. And how did you how did you how did you even measure yourself? Did they tell you like, Hey, you did this well in the exams or you did?
Max: [00:24:25] So first of all, first of all, you got a lot of feedback from your teammates. So you the way it works is that when you start, you have a body. So which is usually a third analyst. So someone that has more experience that guides you. And at the beginning, you work with them. So you learn a lot and it gives a lot of feedback and is responsible for you. And then there is also like, you know, a schedule of things that I need to learn in the first within the first month, second terms and so on. So they keep track and they make sure that I that I get all the skills that I need to then become like an independent analyst if you want. Yeah. So that's a sort of. And then I guess it's a lot of, you know, talking with your other colleagues, same class and understand what they're doing, how they're doing it. And then you get sort of a benchmark
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:13] Where you put on mostly pitches initially or did they give you live deals right away and like I
Max: [00:25:19] Was? Look, it really depends on luck in the sense that, you know, I started pretty soon on a deal. Other people, it took them longer, you know, but it's like, you look in four years, I close 10 deals, which I think it's a good number and I know other people that in four years they closed a few deals. And I'm not saying that I was better than them or I deserved those deals more than them, you know?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:47] Yeah. Do you feel like it kind of fed on itself? I think with what happened with me is once people realized they could trust me, they just kept putting me on more live deals. Yeah, like with the same team, with the same group
Max: [00:25:58] Because it's true. But you know, sometimes the problem is that you work on life deals, but then you have no certainty if those deals will close, right? So there are a lot of people that work on life deals, but then at the end, they don't get the credit because they didn't felt right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:10] Right, right. fair. That's fair. So tell me a little bit about just the progression of, you know, from analysts to associate. And then also, I want to hear about when private equity came up on your radar. Was this something that the class was talking about right away? Or was it something that kind of came up later?
Max: [00:26:26] Yeah. So I think it's a lot of people from your from your class. They have in mind private equity. So you learn about it from your colleagues pretty, pretty soon after your start. But then for me that I also had the chance to work on live deals with both large and mid-cap BS. And that's when I got really, really interested because I saw what they what they were doing. And, you know, I really loved my experience in investment banking. I would do it again and again. But I think that what I was missing is, you know, I was coming from a university where I was doing a lot of my studies were based on management. So I was missing a bit of the operational part. You know, investment banking is very transactional. Mm hmm. And what I understood in private equity is that you get both. So of course, you, you know, you work on deals that you need to close them. And that's when investment banking is great. It's a great training. But at the same time, you know, the problem is that investment banking, particularly when you are a junior, once you close a deal, then you move on onto the next deal. And so you unless you want to follow that company, you will not have a lot of chances to to know what's happening, right? Was when you are in private equity, once you have closed the deal then means you have acquired the company, you have a portfolio, a company in your portfolio, and that's when the game starts, actually, because then you need to. There is all the monitoring. You need to work closely with the management. Maybe you are. It depends on from fund to fund, but you can be involved in the value creation plan. Did you know that?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:09] Did you know all of this kind of seeing deals? Did you or is it something that kind of other people told you or it was just obvious to you?
Because I know when I went, when somebody told me about private equity, I think I was a second year analyst before I even knew it. And this shows you how far, how long ago. I think every, every banker now knows before they even start. Yeah, what it is. But back then, it wasn't this huge kind of well-known, especially for liberal arts kid like me. I didn't know anything, and I remember the kid, one of my felonies, handing me a packet, saying Here Study, This is what an elbow is. And this is what you need to know for the interviews. But what about you?
Max: [00:28:45] It was similar in my case, in the sense that, you know, as I told
You, I have learned about investment banking through friends. Then I've learned about private equity when I was in investment banking and then I had some of those friends that they told me about investment banking. Then they moved to private equity. So they started telling me what private equity was really about. Got it. So yeah, so that's good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:10] I mean, almost. Having a friends that are mentors that are one or two years older that are kind of paving a way for you, you know, in a sense, giving you that insight probably makes you a better interviewer. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Max: [00:29:24] Look, the suggestion is It's tough, you know, the interview process in private equity. There is also a lot of pressure. I think I feel candidate. At least I was feeling pressure because, you know, there are not a lot of opportunities then it depends when you are, you know, there are certain years and it's a simple investment banking. But where there is more demand, other years where there is less demand and you have a window to get out of investment
Max: [00:29:50] Bank. Right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:51] So tell me about that. Yes. Tell me about how you see when you first learned about it, Like was the second
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:58] Year analyst or was it first or if you started hearing about it right away? But then,
Max: [00:30:02] Yeah, yeah, I think right away also because. Sorry to interrupt you, but because you have advantage that they start calling you even when you are a first journalist. You know, in our class, the guy the first guy that got went to private equity.
Max: [00:30:14] He left investment banking after six months from the beginning of first year analyst. Six months. Right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:21] So it's common nowadays. But yeah, back then.
Max: [00:30:24] Yeah, but back then, less now is more and more. And I'm sure that even before me was even less common. Yeah. But yeah, I think the window is, you know, end of your the average, I would say, end of first year analyst, Up to third year analyst, maybe beginning of your fourth year associate. When I when I was associate, I had less interviews or less call from adapters. Then when I was an analyst. Yeah, it's interesting
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:51] How you kind of start getting pigeonholed as, oh no, he or she is staying right. So tell me how you how the how the recruiting process progressed. So you were getting some calls, I assume, as a first year analyst, just to introduce start talking to people who were the headhunters. What was the experience like? Did you get some interviews right off the bat or did you? Yeah, yeah. Look, the
Max: [00:31:12] Advantages are the most well known in London. So is worker Hamil care consultants Blackwood, who has I mean, there are different ones, But so those guys usually they ask because then they were asking me when I was a third year analyst associate who are the good people in your team who are the strong candidates, you know, maybe they're looking for, you know, a German speaker. Second year analyst so do you know anyone in your class that is a strong candidate? So I got called by those guys because someone has that. I don't know who recommended me to those people. Ok? And the thing is that
Max: [00:31:53] Again, another suggestion is back then I didn't know. But those guys even then in the first call, they were already interviewing me. They were trying to understand, is this guy like a really strong candidate? And you know, I was again starting to get to know about private equity. I didn't even I was not even thinking about an interview in private equity, and those people were already interviewing you. Right? So my suggestion is also, you know, make sure, you know, since the first call you have with headhunters, make sure that you, you know, you have you have a proper consider it as an interview and do your best because then you know, if those people think that you are not, you're not good, then you know, they would probably call you less. It will be more difficult. So be careful. So did that. How did that happen to you?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:41] Like where you felt like you weren't prepared as prepared and you didn't land as many interviews as you could have?
Max: [00:32:44] Yeah. Look, I think we won. I made a mistake. And because I wanted me to go for an interview, I accepted it. Then it was a period that I was Completely busy on a live deal, so really sleeping a few hours per night. A lot of work. I didn't have the time to prepare at all. And you know, I didn't want to go and have an interview on a private equity without having, you know, because I know that these interviews are tough. So I didn't want to go there and look like stupid, right? So I canceled the interview and then I constantly rescheduled and I canceled another time because I were hoping that then by then I would have had more time to prepare.
Max: [00:33:25] And that's when the guy the headhunter got annoyed because I said, You know, it's embarrassing for my client because they're waiting for you and you don't make yourself available. And that's when, Yeah, that didn't help me with that. Luckily, that was only one of the many headhunters, right? So it was OK. And it was. But that's
another thing. Yeah. Were you able to kind of.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:46] So yeah. So how many? How many interviews did you actually get first round interviews? Did you get scheduled through these headhunters? And was it all the interviews you landed? Were they all through?
Max: [00:33:55] Yes, yes. Look, I know that there are people that they get interviews through their network. Yeah, but they're not that many. They're not that many. But I think that in private equity network is even more important than in investment banking because if you think about it. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Because you think about it, you know, when you go and work for an investment bank, you usually join a big team. So even if you are not the right fit, it's OK. You know there is a turnover. You can always get fired. You can move on whatever private equity. Usually there are smaller teams, so fit is even more important. So of course, if I know someone and I know that this or maybe I worked with this person when I was in investment banking, is a strong analyst. And when I moved to private equity and when that firm is looking for someone, you know, if I can recommend that person,
Max: [00:34:45] Then of course, will be considered even more than an investment bank.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:49] Tell me a little bit about so you had how many interviews? Six, five three.
Max: [00:34:53] Well, I more than I think, yeah, I would say so. But you know, remember it was, you know, starting as a first year, then second year, not that much.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:03] And because you were so busy because you're so busy,
Max: [00:35:05] But also because, you know, I moved different teams. I was telling you, you know, product and also, as you call it, not country coverage teams coverage team. Exactly, exactly. So, you know, every time you starting a new team, it's like if you were starting again from zero, of course, you know, again, you build your brand and people talk. So they knew that I was a good analyst, but you want to show them in reality. So then it means that you need to again refocus work very hard. So it sounds miserable, but it was a great experience at the end. But like, it's a lot of work. But you know, the experience that I got in these four years was crazy,
Max: [00:35:51] And I still sometimes think, Wow, did they do all this?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:54] Yeah, you got like eight years of experience in four years. True, true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:59] And it's cool that you did DCM, Mandar. You did different countries across product cross-border transactions. Everything, right? Yes.
Max: [00:36:08] So tell me how you really learn a lot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:10] Can you can you share a little bit? So with those Interviews that you're doing from first year all the way through three, all the way through associate, I assume almost right because you were an associate before you got your offer, I assume. Yeah, tell me a little bit about just did you progress? Did you get close to taking the other any other offers or did you did you flame out
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:27] On every single first round? Do you feel like, I mean, I'm surprised you didn't get an offer before?
Max: [00:36:32] Yeah, yeah. The most of the interviews I had and then when I was at the end of my third year, and that's when I really made up my mind and I said, OK, I'm serious about it. I want to go, I want to move into private equity, and that's when I start preparing. That's when I start, you know, be serious about it. So the majority were there. And then again, I think it depends, right? It's really sometimes you go for the first round and either you don't like them or they don't like you. Sometimes you go close to the or you are in the final round and then it's between you and another guy and they choose the other guy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:06] And then that happened to you a few times.
Max: [00:37:08] Yes, yes. And it's really depressing because imagine you have it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:13] You're right there. There's one seed. Yeah, you get 50 shot or whatever,
Max: [00:37:16] And you imagine maybe, you know, it's a period where you are working extremely hard and you know you are committed to your job. In the meantime,
Max: [00:37:25] You are the you're getting ready for these interviews and then you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:30] Have pretend you have doctors appointments. Or did you tell the people in your group, no, you were recruiting.
Max: [00:37:36] No, it's better to it, better not to say my suggestion. Never say it, but that's brutal. It's a close friend. It's a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a close friend that you can really trust. Otherwise, I wouldn't say because it doesn't, you know, it's not good. No, my suggestion is don't say that you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:53] Had twice you got to the final round and you didn't get it three times something like that. Yeah. And then look, I don't remember then other times it was maybe the SEC, you know, then it depends. Some funds they have like four rounds, either they have eight rounds, either 10. You know, it's it really depends. But look at the end of the day. What the most important thing is that you don't have to give up again, very annoying, depressing
Max: [00:38:19] When you get close to get an offer and then you don't get it, and then maybe it takes months before you get another interview because you know, there are some certain periods during the year where you get more interviews. And then past that point, and maybe for another four months, there is nothing. Hmm. Right. Yeah. So you really need I see a lot of friends of mine, ex Colleagues that they were as good as me, or maybe even better than me, that they gave up because they had some, you know, they got close to got an offer. They didn't get it and they decided, OK, So it's very difficult. It's not working out. I give up. But if you really want it, don't give up. Keep pushing, and at the end you will have it. You know, that's my suggestion. It can take really again, some people, maybe they go first interview ever.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:09] But do you feel like if you had knock on this offer and all of a sudden you're a second year associate, do the opportunities just start getting less and less frequent? Yes. Yes, yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:19] You don't have forever, but you have a good three year window.
Max: [00:39:23] Technically, yes, correct. But again, In my case, I didn't start the first year saying Right, I want to private equity.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:31] Your third year, you're really didn't until third year. Analyst Correct. Correct, correct. So tell me a little bit about just how you prepared. Was it just focusing on your deals, knowing those down cold, being able to talk about them? Was it doing some LBO modeling tests? Yeah. What? What did you do?
Max: [00:39:48] So yeah, first of all, and that's something that most of the candidates don't. Don't focus as much, but you need to have a great story because that's usually the first question that they ask you, right? So tell me about you. Why do you want to join private equity? And that sounds a very stupid question, but it's probably one of the most important questions that will ask you. So again, my suggestion is make sure you prepare yourself very well because again, one of the first questions and if you answer it right, then you start on the right way. And again, what the right
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:23] Question, in your opinion
Max: [00:40:25] Look might be. By the way, you need to be honest. You need to. For me was that I love the investment banking. I loved all the transactional skills that I've learned, but I was missing that operational part that I told you and with private equity, I understood that I could get the best of both worlds. The consulting or interpreter
Entrepreneurial experience, together with the investment banking experience and that's
What I was missing, could point to your to your education in management Yes, but that's why that's when I think that's when exactly. So I told them about the fact that I started in. I studied management. Then whilst I was there, I did these entrepreneurial, you know, experience this venture with my friends. It didn't go well, but I've learned a lot. And then from there I did investment banking. And again, as I was telling you, I work across different sectors, countries, products, so I learned a lot. And of course, you need to be good in modeling. So it's as I was telling, one is preparing yourself on why you want to move to private equity. Then, of course, modeling and case studies as well, because, you know, sometimes what happens is that they ask you to do just an
elbow, and that's it. Sometimes you start from an AM at an information memorandum and you have to then, of course, create an LBO. But then you also maybe put together some pages on the opportunity and say, What do you like it? The investment highlights, for example. So and there are some good case studies in the books on case studies that people should. I mean, I've read those books and they help you to prepare because that's when you, for example, I'll put up a private equity
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:13] Interview course. We actually crowd source a bunch of private equity and modeling tests, and we've scrubbed them so that the PE funds don't come after us, but a lot of good stuff in there. Yeah, they're coming straight from the actual interviews, but you're right. It things have things have shifted a little bit more from a pure. There are still funds that give the pure
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:33] Lbo modeling test, but a lot more are now trying to see how you think
Max: [00:42:37] As an investor. And I think it's important. But because the LBO is nothing difficult, right? It's something once you have done it a few times, is not a big science behind it, right? Everyone can do a proper LBO, especially
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:49] People making for almost four years.
Max: [00:42:52] Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But what you want to understand really what you want to assess if the person that you're interviewing has some brain and really understand that some business understanding, if you can think and see what can be done with a certain company, how can you grow it? How can you generate value at the end of the day?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:12] Did you have all 10 deals on your resume?
Max: [00:43:15] Yes. Did you back then, back then? Yes. No, not anymore, but did you feel
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:20] Like that would have? I would be nervous because the way I typically say people are prep is oftentimes like have three or four, but know them cold, like, know them every single number. Did you feel like you were getting? Because if I was your age, I would have picked like someone six down or so
Max: [00:43:36] I prepared on all of them. But remember that they will ask you most of it. Sometimes they ask you, tell me about a deal that you close so you can choose, OK?
And most of the time they focus on the M&A deals. So, you know, the IPO follows leveraged finance deals that I've done. They were, yeah, unless it's the industry that that fund
Max: [00:43:58] Really cover, so they would want to know. But then at that point, they will ask you, So how do you think about this business? How do you think about the sector? But you have all the answers you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:09] Either did you study for that as well when you were?
Max: [00:44:11] I prepared myself. I prepared myself. Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:14] And so that's why you're making it to final round, even though you got a few heart breaking losses at the end. That's why you're getting there.
Max: [00:44:19] Yeah, but it's a learning. It's a learning curve. But you know, the first interview, at least, that was my case. I was not ready as I as I wanted to. But then after you do some interviews, then at the end you also understand what questions. Then you get more comfortable. It's a skill. You gain confidence, right? And that's when you start, you know, mastering it and then that's when you're ready to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:40] Get out of the first. Interviews are so hard for anything, for any industry, whether it's banking, private equity, hedge fund, anything you just yeah, because the reps just help you so much. I always tell people, like if you have an interview or you think you're going to be starting an interview actively like any sort of mock interview, Just do rap with friends, whether it's through our mock interviews, service or mentor service. Do you some something anything just don't go in cold like your first interview in private equity should not be within actual private equity fund? Yeah, yeah, unless you really don't care exactly about getting the offer. But yeah. Really interesting, so so that transition, should you finally you finally get that offer, was it like just this huge relief you said you were feeling the pressure earlier?
Max: [00:45:26] Yeah, I was feeling the pressure at the end because as I told you, I was already an associate and I understood that, you know? Adapters were calling me less because of my level of seniority, and so then I felt like, Oh, I'm running out of options. Yeah, and time. So that's when I felt the pressure. But, you know, I still had like some interviews back then when I by the time I accepted the offer. The fund where I'm currently working, I still I
Max: [00:45:58] Was still interviewing one another two more and that was progressing. But then I decided to go to go for for this fund and accept the offer.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:05] Yeah, yeah. Tell me a little bit about. Can we talk about pay a little bit coming up through your through Credit Suisse? You don't have to give exact numbers, but do you have a range of how it progressed
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:15] For second, third year and then associate and then
Max: [00:46:18] How that changed the middle market? Yeah, I mean, I think they've raised them recently compared to when I started. And there are, you know, if you want to if people want to have the right numbers, they can find them on Google. If they Google, you know, investment banking compensation, you have, like some
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:40] Agencies, you must have gotten into some pretty big bonuses because you were. How many deals?
Max: [00:46:44] Yeah. Yeah, look, yeah. But the bonuses works also depend on how your team did on how the overall bank did that year. So it's not only it's not only on your performance, it is also your performance, but it's as a third
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:00] Year. Did you have like one hundred and fifty percent bonus or two hundred percent bonus?
Max: [00:47:03] Something like, no, no, it was. I think in the U.S. it's higher in Europe.
usually if you are like a top
Max: [00:47:10] Analyst, you are around 100 percent, maybe a bit more depending on the year. But yeah, not as much. Very cool.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:16] Okay. So then the transition to private equity. Was that a pay cut for you?
Max: [00:47:20] Yes. Yeah. Not that much, but It was a bit. But look at the end of the day, I think it's fine because first of all, If you think that private equity is what you want to do, then it completely pays off, even though you are taking a small pay cut. Then at the end you're doing something that you like more. So it makes sense. And then anyway, you will. The more you progress your salary and bonus will increase and then also your care.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:51] And, you know, people associate when you started, yes, you did. I had the
Max: [00:47:56] Small, yeah, small carry. And to be fair, I see I see that most of the fund these days, they give care to juniors. Now it depends, right? The bigger the fund, that's
More difficult. But then usually they give you a higher bonus base and bonus. Yes. So what do you mind me
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:18] Asking when you started in P around what the base and bonus was?
Max: [00:48:22] Yeah. Look, when I started, it was around probably between 80 and ninety thousand. The base bonus. It depends
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:32] What you used or you're saying pounds,
Max: [00:48:35] Pounds,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:36] Pounds. Yes, that's pretty good.
Max: [00:48:37] Yeah, yeah. Look, I know I know of other friends that started out their funds and they had lower,
Max: [00:48:43] Yeah, maybe like 70 others, they got it Higher. The problem with private equity, there is such a diverse sector where you have small cap, big caps, new player, old player. It's really
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:55] Difficult. You know, Carrie, it's exactly
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:58] Late in the fund, are they? It's hard to even quantify. How did you quantify that, Carrie? Did you say, OK, this Carrie, if it doubles and if the fund doubles in five years, this is how much it'll be worth.
Max: [00:49:09] Yeah, they basically when I was talking with the seniors of my fund and about my offer, they told me, Look, if we do two x three x on the fund and this is your care, this is how much it would be worth. So that's and that's a simple task, right? Everyone can run it to a high level, of course. Yeah, but to be fair, as a junior,
Max: [00:49:31] I don't think you can negotiate carry that much. You know, you should be grateful that you have it, by the way.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:39] That's great. And do you have to stick around for that, Carrie, to vest? So again,
Max: [00:49:45] Depends from fund to funds. The way it works is that sometimes so there are different ways you have, like a vesting period. So it means that every year you get a portion of that care or a portion of your care is vested, then you have deliver provision. So bad or good lever. So for example, if you leave as a defense, some funds, if you leave, you lose everything. Other funds that will tell you, OK, if you leave and you are not a bad leaver, then you can get, I don't know, X percent of your carry of your vested. Like, if you're
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:18] Going to business school and they approve it or something like that, or if you're, for whatever reason, a good
Max: [00:50:24] A good leaver. Yeah. But the point of the care is that, you know, it's a long term game. So if you stay in the long term and the fund performs well. Then you will make a lot of money if you want to be fair, it's also I think it makes sense because if you leave early on, then you didn't have your team and the fund towards these returns. So why would you're a junior right? Right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:49] Yeah, it's hard if you're only there for a few years to really have that much impact on all the portfolio companies. Yeah. Um, split of work, how much deal, how much portfolio company work, how much do you like it? Are you getting that operational experience?
Max: [00:51:03] Yeah, that's a great part. Yeah. Yeah, that's the great part. And that's what I was looking for. Is the mix, right? So when it's, you know, it's the execution. It's a very transactional, very similar to investment banking, but the plus, at least from my point of view, is that you get to see much more investment banking. You are one of the adviser and you focus on what the adviser is good at. And then maybe you read the other, you know, due diligence reports, but you are not as involved in the discussion, all the discussion that goes behind it. The private equity has with the different advisers. It depends. Also, it depends also of your level. If you are a junior, usually you are not always on all these calls, so you don't see as much. But when you are a junior private equity fund, you are on all these calls. So you speak with the tax adviser, you speak with the financial adviser, the bankers, you speak with the lawyers,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:52] So they'll let you run the whole process. Correct. Correct, correct. Yeah.
Max: [00:51:56] So you can really see much more. So you, you, you learn and you own the process 360 whilst investment banking, you were like a part of that process. Ok. And then once you have acquired the company, then it becomes your portfolio company. Then again, depends by from fund to fund, but usually you get to
At least attend the board meetings. And so that's cool because, you know, you get to hear from the management about the strategy trading and then following, you know, for the next board, you see what they discussed the first time, what happened. You know, it's very it's very interesting. And then again, some funds that are more operational. So maybe you will be involved in the value creation plan. So you will be discussing with the CEO or CFO or CEO on some of the strategic initiatives to deliver on the returns that the fund is under the written and so on. So it's a mix of both. You know, of course, for example, this year, if you think about it, when COVID hit, it was, you know, most of the process was put on hold
Max: [00:53:07] And it was full time operational, right? Because we had to help our portfolio company companies managing, you know, trying to understand what's the cash burn. Defensive initiatives to save them or to minimize the loss. And then offensive initiatives on How to recover as soon as possible. As soon as you know, the emergency is over.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:31] Yeah, it's fascinating because a lot of a lot of their funds exposed to like retail or restaurants or any of those industries or travel, hospitality, it's like they probably were in just crisis mode. Yeah, crazy. But yeah, go ahead. This is true. But you know,
Max: [00:53:49] One interesting thing is and I've learned it with my fund is that in any sector, there are always some jewels that no matter what, they will still perform well
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:01] Because Wall Street, Oasis we grew through during the pandemic. You see, you see, yeah, we happen to be lucky being an online trading.
Max: [00:54:09] Exactly, exactly. And in any case, you know, there are always opportunities. So I think what we did is that when everything started is try to understand how, you know, let's take those defensive actions that will help the company to weather the storm. But then at the same time, let us think offensive. So what can we do to advantage ourself, our portfolio companies, so that when the emergency is over, we can start faster and taking advantage versus some of other our competitors?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:40] Can you give me an example of that not specific industry, but like, is it like a technology investment or is it something else?
Max: [00:54:45] Exactly, exactly. I think innovation, I think, you know, this coronavirus has been bad under many different aspects. But one thing that an opportunity for I think any company in any sector was to take an advantage and step up their digital capabilities because, you know, everyone was online so you couldn't go out, you couldn't leave your house, your flat, but people were browsing on the internet. So, you know, so a lot of you know, think about the health care, a lot of companies that they were not so keen about telemedicine. Then they started launching about doctor online consultation, online drugs prescription. They launched like, you know, ways to stay close to their clients, you know, totally for customers. Yeah. So this is an offensive strategy, you know? And some companies took advantage of it. Others sat on the back seat and waited for better times to come and guess who's winning?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:42] Yeah, yeah. Really interesting. Oh, well, I really appreciate you sharing all your wisdom and your story, is there anything else before we call it that you'd like to share it to the listeners about your story or words of wisdom that looking back in your path? Yeah, I think
Max: [00:55:59] The best advice I would I would like to give everyone is never give up, you know? You know, you will go through ups and downs in your career, but stay focused on what's your objective. And if your objective is to get into investment banking, work on it and know nowadays again, learn and online, you know, for example, through your, your website is full of useful information where you can learn and get to know, even though you don't have a strong network of investment bankers, right?
Max: [00:56:30] If you do reach out to these
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:32] People, LinkedIn is creating Linkedin, correct? You get to any interest with anybody.
Max: [00:56:37] Exactly, exactly. And, you know, don't give up because it might take time. But at the end of the day, the people that win are the people that don't give up. That's my opinion. So don't give up, guys, you hear that, OK? Exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:53] Anyways, thanks so much, Max. Appreciate your time.
Max: [00:56:56] My pleasure, Patti.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:57] And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
or Want to Sign up with your social account?