WSO Podcast | E148: Investment Banking at BAML to Private Equity out of UNC

 

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In this episode, TarHeelMonkey shares his path from UNC to BAML. We understand what interested him in finance back when he was in 8th grade, why he didn't get a full-time offer in his first summer and why he ended up transitioning into private equity after 1.5 years in banking.

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WSO Podcast (Episode 148) Transcript:

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into Different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, TarHeelMonkey shares his path from UMC to Baumel. We understand what interested him in finance back when he was in eighth grade, why he didn't get a full time offer in his first summer, and why he ended up transitioning into private equity after one point five Years in banking enjoy All right. Tar Heel, monkey, welcome to the Wall Street Voices podcast.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:00:53] Thanks, Patrick, nice to be here.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:55] It'd be great if you could just give the listeners a short summary of your bio.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:00:58] Yeah, of course. Well, I grew up all over the world. I did my last years of high school in Sydney and middle school in India and kind of, you know, grade school in Bentonville, Arkansas, Also All over the place. Very different environments all across the board, but got my interest in finance at a very early age. And so going I went to you and C for undergrad and pursued finance, you know, very sincerely and then very diligently as sort of my primary career Pursuit and was very Fortunate to land as a sophomore intern at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. And I had a phenomenal experience, came back for another summer and transitioned into a full time role as part of their Power Renewables Investment Banking Group and did about a year and a half during that experience and transition into sort of middle market, upper middle market, private equity. And that's kind of where I am right now at a firm called Clear Capital Awesome. And tell me a

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:58] Little bit about why you're jumping all over the world. Was it family? Was it like military? What was the reason for jumping all over? Yeah, it

TarHeelMonkey: [00:02:06] Was. It was just my dad's job. I used to work for Walmart. And you know, that's we went to India for that opportunity and Kind of we got to Go. Me and my brother got to go to the American Embassy School as part of that experience as a sort of top ranked international school. And it was incredibly eye-opening. You know, we were going to school with kids all over the world and this was very from a kid who grew up in Bentonville, Arkansas, where the town is, you know, 20000 people at most And coming back To Bentonville after that experience was very underwhelming not a environment or Kind of cultural Context that we fit in with anymore. And so we were looking for kind of another international experience, you know, broaden their horizons a little bit more. So that's what drew us to Australia. My dad found a better kind of career opportunity out there, and I went to the Germany International School in Sydney, Australia, which was also a unique experience. My graduating class was twelve people, including me. So again, just very kind of You know, outlier Type of experience, I would I would describe it as

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:22] It's very cool the amount of like, yeah, well, the amount of traveling and out of the world you saw in it's such a young age is pretty

TarHeelMonkey: [00:03:29] Cool. Yeah, now yeah, it was. It was definitely. It really developed my world view to an extent that I Never really thought I would get kind of in, you know, a ten-year span before I even graduated high school It's awesome. So, you kind of decide you and

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:46] See why you and.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:03:48] Yeah, no. I was Always focused on doing a business program as part of my undergrad experience, and I always knew, you know, wherever I was in the world, I'd come back to the U.S. for that

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:59] Because your dad was that you were you like finance investment banking in high school or how did you where did you come across it?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:04:05] Yeah. So it's I probably say I wanted to be in finance And built a Passion for it, kind of. Probably in the eighth grade Wow, that's really that's Yeah, very early. That's kind of when the financial crisis happened. And yeah, I was so curious and interested in like this big, massive thing that went wrong and everyone was talking about it. And I had no clue what everyone was talking about. So, you know, The Kind of curious Mind that I had, I kind of looked into it and researched it, and that's how I got exposed to the stock market trying to understand kind of what happened in the GFC. And I just had my you know. My focus and attention and from a learning standpoint, I just delved into it very, very deeply. All the way through high school, you know, I started reading Bloomberg Businessweek, you know, just to be part of part of that world as much as I could and would do kind of the virtual investing games. Yeah. Yahoo Finance actually had a fantasy finance game for like two years that I took part in. That was a lot of fun. They canceled it. It was it was a fun competition thing. But I think just those experiences,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:21] You know, like back in eighth grade, you were you like, I Want to be an investment banker or do you Know you're at the back then you were just thinking all this finance thing is interesting and then as you got through high school? Tell me a little bit about did things kind of Morph where you started actually understanding the industry? Or did that not happen until you arrived at you? And seeing they started kind of outlining the.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:05:38] Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. I had no clue what investment banking was even in high school. I actually what I would really wanted to do. What I'd honed in on was kind of M&A. That's what really had excited me through all of these kind

TarHeelMonkey: [00:05:53] Of exploratory activities. And I had like a kind of job shadow experience In in my first Two years of high school at the kind of legal side of Wal-Mart. And I talked to a couple of M&A lawyers and I was like, I want to do M&A law. And then I talked to a couple more people and they're like, you know, these lawyers, they don't actually do the deals. They just get stuck with paperwork. And I'm like, other than sound exciting. And so I started asking, Well, who's doing the deal?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:25] I talked to some bankers there. Exactly, exactly.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:06:29] And I said, it's the dangerous you do the deals. And so going into like my last two years of high school, I got a very informal internship experience at the UBS bank in Sydney and saw the trading floor and saw a little bit of investment banking having that experience really solidified, like, hey, this is what I want to do. This is what I really want to Dedicate my Life to and build a skill set in and so that kind of my senior Year of high school, I kind of figured out at a very high level what investment banking is and kind of coming into you. And see having that clarity was what was your life?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:05] What was your life like? I was a high school Student with a class of 12 kind of having to travel for two years. Like, did you party at all? Was it like fun or all just studying and nerd like? Because that's what I was a nerd like in high school.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:07:16] I was the biggest nerd. And I,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:20] Yeah, it sounds like if you're like an eighth grader, like delving into the global financial crisis, like you had a different mind, a curious mind is good. Absolutely. Absolutely, I didn't.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:07:30] It was definitely tough to relate to, you know, kids who were normal kids, quote unquote. Yeah. And it wasn't like we were all very close kind of as part of that 12 person class but there were always activities that they were participating in that, you know, I Didn't necessarily always participate in kind of outside of school. I was trying

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:51] To start stuff.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:07:52] And yeah, I like, you know, they're going to parties and stuff like that. And I was kind of more focused on really getting ahead and kind of trying to achieve the longer term

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:05] Dream. Why do you think you are driven to be like, that? Was it something your dad instilled in you? Was it just genetic? What was it like because you're it sounds like your dad was a career guy, you know, chasing these opportunities around the world. Do you think that had an influence on you?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:08:17] Yeah, absolutely. No, it was. I really. Oh, that drive and that kind of tenacity to to my parents entirely. They kind of raised me to have Big dreams. And you know, the you know, having big dreams is one thing and then kind of teaching me how to go after them. And you know. I mean, kind of growing up a they really taught me how to be driven and how to be focused, but

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:46] How do they do that? I'm curious. I'm a I'm a father of three. Yeah, yeah. How do they do that? Was it more Of a of a Hey, Just try your best. That's all that matters. Or was It? Oh, no.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:08:57] You know, it was it was much more deliberate than that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:01] Like, you need to drill on these things like you need to be excellent in math. Excellent written

TarHeelMonkey: [00:09:05] Oral. It was interesting. They they I guess they raised me in a way where I was just extremely competitive. So I used to play soccer growing up And I love I love the game and I loved playing and winning is always a great feeling. And so I mean, I played Forward and there would be games where like, Hey, I scored a goal and you know, I'd come and tell my dad when I got home like, Hey, I scored a goal today. He's like, why didn't you score two? And so that was that was always the mindset is like, why aren't You doing better? No matter how good you're doing, why aren't you doing better? Why aren't you? And it wasn't the kind of put me down. It's like, Hey, you can get to the next level and I'm going to make sure you get there. And so it was Always, you know, You got to get one rung higher on the ladder, even if if you got a ninety seven on the test, why didn't you get one hundred? You know, It was That, but that sounds kind of exhausting.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:57] Like your dad keeps pushing and pushing you. Did you feel that way or did you like the push?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:10:03] You know it. I mean, I think in the moment it can be like growing up. It could it could get Maybe a little frustrating, you know, your kind of

You come in achieve Something, whatever it is, you're proud of something that you did. And then and it doesn't seem to be quite enough for this person that you respect and kind of hold in the highest regard. But looking back at it, I would not have had it any other way.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:27] Brothers and sisters, were they similar? Do you have any brothers and sisters?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:10:30] Yeah, I have a younger brother and he is getting to that point where he's a freshman at IU, but he's getting to the point where he's getting really competitive. He's getting to the point where it's not even other people. And I think that was the difference for me growing up when I got to a point where the normal standard that other people Measured themselves by, like, was not applicable

To me. Like there was like I was always holding myself to a much higher standard and always striving for that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:05] And as an example, an example of that. Yeah. You mean like you mean by high school, like in grades and stuff like that or something else?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:11:14] In kind of all aspects, it was always like, I want to do the best that I can and, you know, let's say. You know, my. Hmm. That's a good question, what is a good example because like

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:29] I mean, you're talking about Soccer, right? And you said, Oh, he'd come back and be like, So were you like training like an extra two hours a week? Were you were getting up at five a.m. to train? Like, what were you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Or did you just Like try your best and train, but like academics were our focus where the main focus?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:11:49] Yeah. Academics is always, always the main focus. So, so maybe let me

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:56] Dive so much into your pre banking career. It just it fascinates me because you're your background is unique in terms of like the world travel and all the stuff, right? Idiosyncratic. So it's different from what I've talked to. So I'm trying to unpack a little bit of like your.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:12:09] No, of course. No, no, no. Absolutely. So. So in in Australia, I was part of the IB program and as part of that program. The I was In like one of the part of our math class, we had to do a a real world research project and apply some of the theory and concepts and lessons that we were learning to kind of a real world problem. And I at this point, You know, everyone was, you know, the teacher had Given us a couple of options, you know, 10 or so different Real world things That we could go apply math to. Some of them were like roulette, You know, some of Them were to like horse racing or something like that. You know, statistics and so forth. And you know, we always had the freedom to do our own thing as well. And I'm like, these things were all kind of you could go and find papers online that would basically kind of do all the work for you if you wanted. But I wanted to do something that was much more relevant to me and much more relevant to my passions. And so I try to apply it to the stock market. I tried to do like a quantitative analysis of how to build sort of a high performing portfolio like what? What kind of quantitative methods can you? And this is before I even knew what I was talking about,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:34] And this is a high school student.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:13:36] This is a high school student. I didn't really know a lot of the stuff that I was talking about, but you know, it wasn't just enough for me to do what was required. I wanted to do kind of above and beyond What other kids were were kind of Maybe thinking about or thought capable Of. And I went and talked. I tried to make connections to real world like financial finance professionals to kind of get good guidance on something like this. And you know, I didn't I didn't get a good grade on the project, by the way, at all. But I, you know, I probably spent. Are cumulative, like of like a hundred, one hundred and fifty hours, you know, across like two to three weeks, like putting this together. Just because I had so much dedication for it because I wanted to learn, and that was all that was the only thing that was relevant to me, what the grade is important. But I also wanted to make sure that, hey, I was doing something I was really excited about and I was learning about it and I was getting better at it, and it was at a level That other people were not doing. It was different. It was differentiated, for sure.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:39] So tell me a little bit about like why you and see obviously strong finance program, right? Exactly. Is that just it? Or like, did you apply Elsewhere and you felt like that Was the best shot at getting into finance?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:14:52] Yeah, well, so I definitely applied elsewhere, so we knew we were coming to Michigan. My dad had found another job in Michigan as we all kind of transitioned stateside. And so, you know, University of Michigan was definitely a top choice to kind of get that in-state tuition and Ross School of Business also as a very high name, but unfortunately got waitlisted there. And USC Was, you know, I had applied to a lot of the Ivy League Schools. I applied to 15 schools, got waitlisted at two and rejected from all the others, all in the same day, which was which was which is totally a slap in the face because I spent, like all my high school career. Did you for the Ivies,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:32] But you feel Like there Was a little bit of shock? And what? Looking back now with a little bit more wisdom at like your applications and knowing kind of the game a little bit, do you feel like there was a piece missing there?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:15:43] Yeah. You know, one thing that the I've thought about this a lot is it's a little bit of a traumatic experience, but I

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:52] Guess something with

TarHeelMonkey: [00:15:55] My act score wasn't the highest. So I think that was one piece. And I think the other thing that probably, you know. The admissions committees at all these places were thinking about was I was very, very focused on my essays and that I knew what I wanted to do. And I was just very determined like, I want to be in finance, I want to do M&A. This is the world I want to be a part of, and I want to kind of come and take

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:21] It from the type of kid they really like to hate. Is that what you're saying?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:16:25] Yeah, I think I just don't think they believed me like they were like, You know what? What, 17, 18 year old kid knows he wants to do this. He's just kind of, you know it. Maybe it didn't come across as sincere. He's just trying to say what we think we want him to say or trying to sound too mature or too professional or whatever. But I was very sincere. And, you know, I Guess they wanted an all rounded student kind of quote unquote. That's sort of the tagline, and I wasn't interested in that. I knew what I wanted and I was kind of ready to go after it. And then two weeks went by. I didn't. I didn't have a college to go to. I hadn't heard back from USC yet. And so I was like applying to all these like state schools and stuff like that, like just kind of have my bases covered and thank God you and see accepted me. And got to go to a, you know, a very prestigious institution kind of weeks later. Yeah. Tell me about specifically the

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:23] How you ended up getting that sophomore gig. Did you apply online network? Tell me a little bit of that whole Process because I've already taken A bunch of your time with background. I want to get into the nitty Gritty now of how you landed it. You obviously had like you knew early on. Do you feel like that was a huge advantage just knowing you wanted to banking, right? Yeah, I think

TarHeelMonkey: [00:17:40] I think that like, I'm not smarter than the next person. I I don't have more connections in the next person, like the only advantage I had coming into colleges. I knew exactly where I wanted to be. I knew what classes I wanted to take. Like I had researched what professors I wanted to get close to and learn from. And like, like literally week one, I went to the corporate finance professor's office Is a door was locked and He was on a phone call. I waited outside his office for probably for four and a half hours just to get five minutes with the guy to tell him. I wanted to maybe sit into His class and be part of the student run Fund, which he was Overseeing. And, you know, he gave me five minutes and I threw that conversation. I was able to get into the student run fund as as a freshman just to kind of show that drive, which was an incredible opportunity and gave me a lot of exposure to seniors who were great mentors to me as well because they.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:35] They were in the banks It's a huge that's exactly the The relationships with.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:18:40] Exactly. Yeah, no, that was that was huge because they helped me connect to people in the banks and Then also where There were two seniors in particular who were incredibly pivotal to helping me prepare for those interviews teaching me how to network. I was I was a freshman, going to all sorts of job fairs and networking events, just looking for some opportunities that someone would Be ready to Give me and no one would give a freshman, you know, the time of day, right? Like, they're not they're not hiring freshmen for internships. But I failed in a lot of those like networking events, you know, I didn't know how to behave or How to portray myself. But because I Did it at such an early point in the college career, I was able to learn from those mistakes and be much more effective.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:24] You're much

TarHeelMonkey: 00:19:26] More polished. Yeah, definitely. And I think I think that was like a huge advantage as well, like relative to other kids, I was just I just knew what I made mistakes early and could capitalize on them when they actually when it actually counted.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:39] So tell me, when did it count and how did you did you start applying? Was there any sort of online thing going on for sophomore internships or how did you even land?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:19:46] Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny. There was one of the two seniors I talk about he he connected me to. An analyst at Morgan Stanley, and it was like a first round interview, and he prepared me exactly for the technical answers that we're going to be asked. Like word for word and I go into this interview and I'm nervous. And it was a phone call. And so I've got like papers of answers just like thrown across my dorm room, like ready to flip to any single one. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. One sec. I was I was over Prepared for this call, And it's not that I didn't get the answers right. It's like it didn't sound like I knew what I was talking about. Like, it didn't seem that I was confident in the answers I was giving, and I didn't get kind of moved on to the next round of the senior. Kind of. He's like, Dude, I literally gave you the interview word for word like, if you're not serious about this, I'm not going to help you. And like, that's kind of when I kicked it into gear. And this is as a second year student.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:48] Yes, I knew you were kind of like he gave you basically told you What they were going to ask you questions Like, what exactly does it do? Right, right? You still kind of Fumbled through it because you didn't really understand. You hadn't tried it enough.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:21:03] That's exactly right. And it was it was. It was a good wake up call. And I was also I was applying to these things as a junior, but only in my second year of college. I had a year and a half of college already finished coming into USC. And so I was applying to these things as a junior with the intention of graduating early. And kind of after that experience, there was a coffee chat with Bank of America and there was a guy in leveraged finance who, For whatever reason, took a liking me. And he was he was kind of like a white knight, like he really like pushed me through the process, you know, help me make some really good connections.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:44] Was telling me that you mean from the coffee chat, like you sitting around and with a group of other eager beavers kind of huddling around him? He he liked to, you

TarHeelMonkey: [00:21:52] Know, so it was it was like a one on one thing. How did you get the one on one you? We had like a USD like portal and you were like, Apply. And then like, you send your resume in and They select X amount of Kids to kind of Join these Kind of coffee chats. And yeah, it was. It was a great opportunity in Bank of America was hosting it. And you know, you get like 10, 15 minutes with kind of a banker from Bank of America. And it's just it's like a networking call, but you get sort of one on one attention. And who

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:25] Was this? Who was this guy or gal was an associate and an analyst.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:22:29] Yeah, he was a

Patrick (CEO of WSO):: [00:22:31] Fan, you said. But associate level, you would think,

TarHeelMonkey: [00:22:33] Yeah, I think he was a VP. I think he was a VP at the time. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:37] Why do you think he like you?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:22:39] I think it was really just like my determination, tenacity and drive like it was. I was always kind of,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:45] You show that like, do you want to come across as a harder to write and no. Yeah. So it was.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:22:51] It was all about the attitude of learning. I think I think that is the key when you're having these conversations is You, you don't You're exactly right. You don't want to come across as a know it all or like, you know, I try hard or, you know, trying to brown nose these people. It's you're doing a job that I want To be good at, and I just really Want to learn how to be good at it. You know, I'm I was very upfront. I don't know what I'm doing, but these are the steps I've taken In my college career. Kind of learn more And these are the reasons why I want to be in the industry having a great story for Why you want to be In an investment banking role and kind of what you want to learn.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:34] And what did you say? What did you say back then? Just want To learn about being around Smart people, that type of Thing or fail

TarHeelMonkey: [00:23:41] You? I think it has to be more personal than that. So I had done a internship at a company called Brass Craft. It is a company owned by Moscow, which is a large sort of Kind of building products company. But Brass Craft was that it was a plumbing manufacturer. That's what I did as a freshman. My freshman summer was doing. I was a sales intern at, at, at a plumbing manufacturer. And weird experience, but.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:13] And so I didn't want to do yoga, I was assistant manager of a yoga studio, so I don't feel bad. Keep going. Yeah, you do what you got to do and pay the bills.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:24:23] Yeah, exactly. And you know, they had me doing kind of sales and marketing type stuff, but that was just kind of the job description. I went to kind of my boss and saying, Hey, I'm happy to do my regular job, but where I really want to do is kind of M&A stuff, and you guys have stuff that you're doing on the M&A side. And they kind of gave me a couple of projects. They were looking at some companies in like Brazil and In some companies  In Chile, and I just kind of ran with it and try to build models around it and create a presentation And, you know, so I use that to my advantage saying, Hey, I had a little bit of M&A experience as part of my freshman summer Internship, and it was great To be able to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:02] Did you like set that up like knowing that this company would allow you to do that knowing they had some corp dev going on?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:25:07] No, no, I didn't. I just walked into my manager's office and I'm like, This is what I want to do. Do you guys have any like projects and they're like, We're not really serious about it, but we're happy. We're happy to let you kind of

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:18] Pretend like I go off in your little corner and say, Yeah, we're not really Going to buy these companies, but go ahead,

TarHeelMonkey: [00:25:25] Free work for them. So what's nothing for them to lose?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:29] And that's a that's actually a great lesson that if you can kind of carve out your own internship where you're working for a company, yeah, sure. Go look at the potential targets for them.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:25:40] Yeah, once you're in the door, you can do whatever you want,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:43] Assuming they're just having you there as a favor anyways, right? Right. You can exactly about your own M&a, internship

Or corp. Right, right? I put that in air quotes for people who are listening. Hey, cool. No, that's smart. It's smart. Because a sophomore, there are these coffee chats. You can start pointing to that,

TarHeelMonkey: [00:26:01] Pointing to that. And what I said was, look, it was very rewarding to be part of something that could impact the future of this particular company. But what I realized was what one thing That I feel like would be much more fulfilling was to be able to do that on a larger scale for more companies and kind of on a global level as well Which investment in banking Gives you kind of an opportunity to do so? That was kind of the reason, like, Hey, I had this Experience, it was great, But this was something that was missing from that. And I think investment banking can fill that gap for me In terms of, you know, a career Reward or kind of professional fulfillment. You liked it and he liked it, and he really saw that. I think this sincerely kind of really saw the sincerity of how much I wanted this and that I was willing to grind for it. Yeah. And you know, one thing that I, you know, even today, I still try to talk to a lot of kids who are trying to break into Wall Street. And all I tell them is like, you have to keep networking and you have to be on that grind because at the end of the day, all it takes is just one guy, One guy who's willing to go to bat For you, and that will be kind of your doorway into the opportunity. And so you just have To kind of getting you have to keep Trying to get as many at Bats as possible. So after that coffee chat,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:23] You kind of push you through to like, you guys should do a super day.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:27:26] Well, he got me to a first phone interview and he connected me to ready for the technicals this time. This time I was ready and they ask

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:35] You technicals, Do you remember? Yeah, they did.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:27:37] Yeah, just the basic ones. You know that valuation methods and so forth. And he also connected me to a couple like kind of full time analysts and every person I talked to. I always try to make them a mentor or get mentorship from them. And that's a good way to build a much more personal relationship with them where they're invested in your growth as well, rather than just sort of a standard networking call. And I don't I never see these conversations as like, Hey, you know, I don't want to talk to this guy again if he's not going to give me a job, it's You never know when these people Are going to come in hand or when they have an opportunity

Down the road. Yeah, it could be deadly And so I always try to construct the conversation to be a very long term relationship building process and a lot of those full time analysts help me prepare for the first round and they help me prepare for super days. And I think I just got really lucky in the Super Bowl. I just. Were they alum? Yeah, they were you. And yeah,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:34] I guess that makes sense. They're helping you out.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:28:36] Ok, you're helping me out.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:37] Yeah, we're helping out a lot of other kids from Us as well, though. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. So it wasn't. It was a good network. Ok, so now You so then you kind of they're helping you prep and you said you got lucky on super days. Explain what the Super Day was like. And yeah, what do you why do you say you got lucky? Yeah, I.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:28:54] That the show is funny. Tubridy was filmed in New York and Were three Very kind of, you know, forty five minute call interviews in person And the first one was with the CEO of a group and I was like, Holy cow, this is like a c suite kind of thing, like this person is super senior and I'm a sophomore, basically. It was intimidating, but she was. I cannot exaggerate this enough. The nicest person I've ever spoken to She like she was So helpful And she was So informative and was ready to be a mentor, was ready to help me learn and give me good guidance

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:39] Even in the end. You felt like that.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:29:41] Yeah, even in the interview. It didn't feel like she was trying to grill me. It felt like she was trying to get to know who I was and what I'm passionate about

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:49] And across is not close minded, like narrow. Or how should I say, laser driven focus finance? Yeah. How did you come across as like more of a normal human being? Just kidding.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:30:02] I did it. I did it. I I don't. I don't think I did.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:06] It hurt you with the interview there. Do you think she was looking for the more well-rounded person?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:30:10] No, no. We she was. She's still a strong mentor to me today. Like we're still in touch. Even after having left Damo, she was someone who I really leaned on and relied on through my internships and through my full time career. And it just I just think it really goes to Show how valuable It is. To formulate conversations with people in a way where they're kind of long term based

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:35] That that relationship. In that interview, specifically, What is what was she looking for? Like, what did You give her to? Because she sounds like she's trying to get to know you as a person, so she want to know what motivated you? What? Yeah. So tell me about that. Yeah. Like what types? It was a lot of fit behavioral type questions.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:30:50] Yeah. She was like, kind of, you know, what are you passionate about kind of outside of finance and into that? I answered, You know, my You know, yes, I'm very kind of driven professionally, but at the same time, like my ultimate goal, like I will not be satisfied or content in my job if I'm not able to continuously guide other students or guide other People into their Dreams and passions. That's always been my underlying life goals to help people become better than they think possible. And so I kind of told her about that and kind of my association with the finance society, you and seeing all of the things I was doing there to kind of help educate kids for kind of careers in Wall Street, you know, whether it was financial modeling workshops or Running, you know, investing Competitions or networking seminars and stuff like that and kind of doing like. I created a mentorship program as part of the finance society. So talking about those kinds of things, I think really, really spoke to her and at the very end of the conversation, I said, look, I really want to be like, You like that like you have gone so far in your career, like, that's who I want to be at your level one day. Like, what do you think I should be doing now to get there? And I'd love to kind of I kind of asked her point blank like, I'd love to have your mentorship kind of in the long run. I think I'd be incredibly valuable to me if you're open to it, and I don't think it should be afraid of doing that or nervous of kind of asking people they admire to really guide them. I think especially professionals.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:25] It sounds like, but it sounds like just talking to you right now, like that's almost a super risky play. I agree with you 100 percent, by the way. I think the direct like genuine like eye contact. You know, I'd love for you to guide me like like just having that humble, like genuine delivery. Yeah, when you're in that moment is actually super powerful to land the job.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:32:49] I really think so. Yeah, I think that's the right word. I think I think it really shows like your willingness to learn which kind of leads into humility, which also plays into the kind of culture that Bank of America was trying to cultivate. And we feel like

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:03] That, really. You've nailed it with that because you ended up getting the job But what tell me, Did you feel like it went well or does she a little off Like put off by her, she or she just like there? She loved it, you think?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:33:13] I think I think we had a really great conversation. I I would think so, considering she's still talking to me today. Yeah, I hope she likes me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:22] Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. Keep going. So you had that one interview and then then what?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:33:27] And then and then I got very lucky with the second one. He was a a, a managing director from you and fee in the left hand group. So that was just, you know, could not have asked for a better opportunity there And that was that was a pretty Standard interview, like very behavioral, very fit based. The one question That he asked me and the answer To that I was the most proudest of was. And what's your favorite class and like, that's such a tough question to answer, but I feel like I would because I was so determined for finance. I felt like I had a good answer for that. I said the ones I'm not registered for. Those are my favorite classes because what I did in school is I would skip the classes that I was actually supposed to attend that I had on my schedule and I would go to the business school and fit into high level finance like investment classes like MBA classes just to learn. And I talk to the professors And be like, Look, I'm not in your class I just want to learn This is what I came to college For us to learn these Things, and I want To learn them as fast as I can. I would do the homework so I would take the midterms for no credit and I would do Like relatively. I could have done better in the classes I was registered for, but I was like, Hey, man, I'm paying a ton of money to learn. I don't. I'd rather not fit into like English one on one. I'd rather go sit into kind of investments. And I thought that was like he found that to be a pretty unique answer and kind of just Showed that I really wanted this.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:58] So did you not party at all in college? Just you're taking a double course load?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:35:02] Yeah. Literally not.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:05] So you're just like, is this realistic advice I should be giving? My listeners can do and work as hard as you? I mean, look, you were already had One hundred hour weeks. It sounds like in college

TarHeelMonkey: [00:35:19] If you have the passion for it, if you really if you really want it, then it's not going to feel like hard work. It's just going to feel like this is what you enjoy doing.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:30] Are you interested in it? So city bosses doing the Midterms, doing all the extra work, You know, you'd probably you'd probably quickly go through your English, your ass, you write your essays as fast as possible and then get

TarHeelMonkey: [00:35:41] Exactly. Saturday night we had it. We had what's called a capital markets lab, and there was a point in time where I was learning how to do like three statement modeling. So like most Saturday nights, I was in there to like 3:00 a.m. Like and there's like big building all by myself, like just like figuring out why the balance sheet isn't balancing. That's what I was doing for, like a whole semester.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:02] But about like social life, though, like, did you feel like you're missing out at all?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:36:07] Um, yeah, I mean, I definitely

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:09] Was, but looking back, especially now that you've been out of School for what Three and a half, four years now? Almost.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:36:14] Yeah, yeah, that's very I look I got very lucky with my I did random roommates as a freshman and I got very lucky with the guys I was rooming with. They were all weird and quirky. Just like me. They weren't partiers they had no intention of being part of, like the Greek life and so forth. And so we all just hung out together and that was like, we got really close relationships through that. And so I don't think I missed out on building great relationships and then missed out on building really good friends that I connect well with. They were all like nerds and weirdos, just like me, so I felt like we got along. And you know, I. I was OK not being associated with kind of the partying kind of last.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:01] It's totally like, you know, you, you were you were having fun. You were doing like you wanted to do.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:37:05] Yeah, it was. It was very much a conscious decision. Like, yes, it would

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:09] Be like pressure to do what you were doing. It was like a pure drive, like a pure curiosity. And exactly the time you wanted to spend so you know more power to you. That's awesome. Exactly. Yeah. So, OK, so you're getting you have this SEO she you kind of do the hard sell at the end. Like the connection you have the a great answer for the U.N. Like basically showing him. Through like what you're doing, explain to him, like, well, it's not the courses I'm registered for, It's all these other extra coursework I'm doing. The guy's like, Whoa, this kid's like serious. Right, right? So two really strong ones But how about that third interview?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:37:45] Third interview was interesting. I actually can't recall how, like, how that actually went. It's a little bit of a blur, but I do remember coming out of that Interview like feeling A little iffy about it. I didn't feel like as strong as I did on the other other Interviews, but I think that was just, you're always Just nervous going into interviews and then you never feel like the interview went as well as you think. So I think it was really just a function of that. But I but I got the offer. I got the offer, which I was. I was thrilled about it. It was eight years of work, eight years of kind of determination, culminating to that one moment, which is great.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:30] You must have felt incredible. Yeah, it was. It was great. So like going Into the summer, you were just ready, gung ho ready to work. Do whatever. Yeah, yeah. You know it was it. Was it brutal hours? Was it? Was it tough when that sophomore summer?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:38:42] Yeah, you know, it's the one advice I have for any interns going into an internship is just to relax. That was so yes, my drive and tenacity got me to that stage, but it actually backfired on me on the job. Once you're on the job like you really want to relax and be much more easygoing and you want to internalize that urgency and you want to internalize that that excitement and kind of make It shine in your work product. I think I initially and it's really just a question of maturity. I just didn't have the experience and time that I needed, but I was, Yeah, yeah, I was.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:21] It was you couldn't even drink yet.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:39:23] Yeah, exactly. You know, it was like I was at Disney World, like, I was just too happy. Like I was grinning ear to ear at like eight thirty in the morning and two a.m. at night and people were like, you know, this kid is, it's too much. You know that that was that was my midsummer view. I was like, you’re too overwhelming and you need to dial it back. It's, you know, and they were like, Look, we love the positivity, we love the attitude. It's just kind of being situationally aware and being self-aware. And I thought that was really good advice.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:55] And yeah, like if there's an analyst that like, hates his life, you shouldn't be like bouncing around, smiling around.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:40:00] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly right. That's what it was. And like it was, it was really good advice And really tried

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:11] To. Well, you ended up getting a return offer for junior summer.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:40:14] Well, so that was the thing. So what happened? So I was competing for a full time offer that first summer. Oh, really? Ok. Yeah, because I was telling you I was.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:25] Oh, that's right. You were. Yeah, you were only doing

Three and a half years or whatever

TarHeelMonkey: [00:40:28] And. So that. Now, I didn't get a full time offer, they kind of put me on the wait list.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:36] Oh, and you think because of that over eagerness that over you? Well, it was it was a little bit of that. They said that I

TarHeelMonkey: [00:40:42] Improved a ton and the second half of the internship, I was really able to take that feedback and really improve on it. But that summer was a little unfortunate. I think it was across the street like no one hired like a high percentage of interns like my group only gave like 40 percent offers. Oh wow. That that year, and I think it was kind of like Morgan Stanley, I don't think even hired like a single you and see intern that summer. So I think it was just across the street.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:10] A depression for you. All right. Well, yeah, it was.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:41:14] It was. It was sad. I was. It was. It was definitely sad. It was. It was very disappointing. But I think I had dealt with failure enough to that point where I knew how to kind of process it and kind of run with it. But look, what I told them is Like, hey, I understand. They said, like, Look, we, we really want you. There just isn't enough Headcount and we have to put you kind of on the wait list and the kind of person in charge of that was really fighting with HR to kind of open up, you know, one or two additional spots for me as part of the group. But, you know, there didn't seem to be kind of room there. And what I told them was like, you know, I could have easily done easily, but I could have went and start. I started applying for, like other full time jobs, is like part of like middle market boutique banks and looking for other opportunities. But I was kind of thinking about the long game and I said, Look, I can go and do an extra semester at school and come back as an intern if you'd be OK with that. And I think that'd be a really good way to kind of show my maturity development. I would have sort of another year to kind of develop on the feedback that you gave me and kind of turned It around and be much more professional. The second go around if they were open to it because from their perspective It just less One less intern that they have to worry about higher.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:34] Yeah, yeah. First pitch.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:42:36] And so that was like a really good pivot for me. So they weren't able to open up one spot. So they immediately gave me a return internship

Offer and I wasn't Losing anything by extending my career, my college career by a semester, I was still graduating early like I had always planned. Sort of two and a half years, I graduated in three years. Like, not a big deal. And so I came back for a second internship and did very well in that internship.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:04] And just like you guys, you were going to graduate in two and a half years. Plus you're taking a bunch of courses outside of your normal course load. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tell many. How many hours a week were you in classes and how many hours a week? It sounds like you were doing about 80 hours work a week.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:43:17] Yeah, I don't know if I was doing like double the class load. I think would every semester I would pick one or two classes that I really wanted to go sit into and learn that weren't part of this crazy. Yeah. So I would like to have one or two.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:34] There was. That's why they get it. We don't harp on it. So OK, so you're basically you get you come back, you do another Summer when you said, like, you really Took it to heart this this feedback, be more professional. Were you being Like super immature that first year? Like, was it a a party thing like, we're like, you were inappropriate, like going out with the group you didn't know how to?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:43:52] Oh, no, no,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:53] No, no. Nothing like that. It was just more like overeager beaver kind of stuff.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:43:57] Yeah. Just like how to conduct yourself in the office,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:02] You know, because there might be other kids listening that didn't really understand what you mean by that. Yeah, I think I get it.

But yeah, any example of like where they're like, what were you doing here or?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:44:13] It was it was really Just like how I presented myself, it was, I I guess, like the intensity and the drive and the desire should come across in your work product. It should be it should be in the quality of your work. It shouldn't be in an outward like I think I was communicating it too much that this is like, I love this. This is where I want to be or like, you know, like I'm having like such a good time, like you were

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:40] Verbalizing it, your verbal.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:44:41] Exactly, exactly. I think I was getting

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:43] You were getting on people's nerves running like this kid. He like, won't stop talking about how much he loves this job. And there's guys like that are like dropping out burning.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:44:50] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:52] And they're like, I can't stand this kid. I don't want to be around him or whatever. Like, you won't answer about how much he loves banking or whatever. So I got it. Ok, so that's actually a really important point to people who like. Do you find themselves in your seat who really know that they really love it? It's almost like the curse of the zero. It can hurt you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a dream. Or if it's if it's not coupled with like a more friendly personality If you come across as a robot with a four, it can hurt.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:45:19] Right, right. Yeah. So it was like, you know, you're super friendly guy and like, you work really hard, but this is like the one. It's like it was like a soft skills issue

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:28] That just really helpful. No, it's really helpful because that's that's important for people to hear because there could be people who are going into this, like gung ho. They're like going to have a green light, a shit eating grin at 4am, you know,

TarHeelMonkey: [00:45:41] And like, it was like in my emails, my emails were like to positive, like overly positive. And it's like they kind of come like exclamation point, exclamation point

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:51] On like everything.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:45:52] It's kind of comes back to like me applying to colleges like they just didn't believe that I loved it that much and that's interesting. When I when I when I was called back for the second internship, they were like, Yeah, like, this kid actually just loves it that much. And so I think judges actually love it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:11] They actually gave you full time offer. They're like, we have a workhorse coming.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:46:15] Exactly. And then I graduated in three years and then I started early. I started six months earlier than my club.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:21] Like now, like, let's take six months to go travel. Nothing like that. You travel enough and you're early

TarHeelMonkey: [00:46:26] Traveled enough was ready to start working and then move forward in my career and I started early.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:32] So hungry to go all the time to go, go on it. Are you still like that now that you're in P?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:46:38] Are you still? Yeah, I'm still like it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:41] Ok, so you're different. Yeah, yeah.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:46:44] Yeah, definitely. Definitely different. I just I'm never Satisfied. I always want. I always want more, and I always kind of want it now which, you

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:53] Know what sense like, what's driving you, is it the money? Is it the like the no, the feeling of, well, I mean, it's easy to say no, no one knows who your are like. But is it the money? Is it the is it the feeling of

TarHeelMonkey: [00:47:02] Like learning and like, you want to just accelerate faster? Is there some sort of deep seated like feeling of like, I need to Do this because to prove.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:11] Back to my family. What's going on?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:47:13] Oh, yeah, yeah, no, it's

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:14] I think it's like something under like. Have you thought about that? Have you stepped back and be like, Why am I so much more? I know you said you set levels and bars for yourself that are not normal for other people.

And so I get that But there's a lot of hard working people on Wall Street and even next to them, it sounds like you are extreme.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:47:32] Yeah, it's definitely not the money I always told people, I'll do this job for free, like just cover my rent, my pay to work the same number of hours and I'll still work just as hard. It's just it's just. I guess it's not it's not about the money, it's not about the titles or the promotion, like there's no like family pressure or anything like that. Like I have said, this is the career and this is the passion that I have realized and want to dedicate myself to And so I want to do everything that I Possibly can to be. I mean, you are.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:02] And then you ended Up at Bam for three years,

TarHeelMonkey: [00:48:05] One and a half.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:06] Sorry. That's right. So one and a half full time. So tell me About like, if it's something you love So much, you started early. Why leave after a year and a half before the Two year commitments over?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:48:15] Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I always, you know, everyone was kind of. It always told us to, like other people I speak to who are kind of starting banking is. Don't get caught in the rat race. Everyone thinks about banking as a stepping stone to pee. You know, they do the two years of banking and they start recruiting a month of starting their banking full time job for P.E. and they've got many

Kids locked up In a P.E. offers before their first six months or even done in banking. And they don't even know what the job is yet. And I don't think that does justice To The job and to your learning experience because you've kind of written off the job before you even started it And you just don't like you make that decision for yourself. A lot of kids think is the more prestigious career or there's more money in it and so forth. And I was never about that. I always wanted to make decisions for myself and on my own terms. And so I wanted to make sure I gave banking Its full due, and I Did it very diligently without even thinking about recruiting for a whole year. And then after you're kind of reflected, I'm like, What do I like about this job? What I not like about this job? And what was that the one?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:33] What did you not like?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:49:34] Yeah. So I think for someone who wants more and always wants more. I think at a certain point you feel like you want more responsibility and sometimes you may not be able to get it or you want to be, you know, take a little bit more independence in certain projects or get some. And it wasn't like, Hey, I wanted to be treated like an associate, like I wanted to be an associate. I just wanted an opportunity Here, there to kind of act as an Associate or kind of have the associate hat on and kind of learn those skills

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:07] So that at a middle market, if you're not familiar, you should have been a smaller place where you they were like desperate for somebody to step up Right, right. Yeah. So, yeah, go ahead.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:50:20] Oh, sorry. I hope that process was like part of maybe, you know? Like work at the sort of associate level in certain projects and then that we're kind of put you in good position to get the promotion. And, you know, it's a very structured environment. And so things there, obviously there's a hierarchy to it. There's kind of a chain of command and you kind of stick to that And that's kind of a good, Efficient way to kind of run deals. And so that was one thing that I was like in my next role. I really want to have an opportunity where I'm kind of it's more entrepreneurial in the sense that they want me to be a critical thinker. They want me to take a view. You know, I kind of own the model. I own the analysis and I always my initial interest and spark in finance really came from the investing side of things. I liked creating a thesis. I liked doing the research. I like putting money Behind it and seeing if you are right, right? There was kind of a meritocracy to it. And it was a little bit more academic in nature. You're trying to discover the right answer, whereas in banking, a lot of times an MD tells you this is the answer, and we need to construct the assumptions to get there, right? And so. Kind of having that that realization, I just kind of recruited passively not was not like I didn't throw myself into it. I didn't like do a bunch of hours of like practice modeling or anything like that as like, hey, if I if I get something, I'll think about it. If not, I have a really good I'm like in good standing here at my current job and I'm enjoying the role. And I just got very fortunate with clear capital like amazing culture, a great group of people and they were wanting me kind of have that critical thinking approach. They I would be invited to all of the meetings. I would be, you know, talking to bankers, talking to lenders, get to go to the management meetings like they expected me and I and I get to ask management questions. And no one thinks it's weird that like a twenty four year old kid is like asking the CEO of this company like hard pressing diligence questions on a business he's running right? Like no one thinks it's like out of the ordinary. And I was looking for that kind of exposure. I was getting it a whole extra year, a year and a half earlier than I would have in banking And I kind of ran with it. It was a risk.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:40] What was the first? Tell me a little bit about the recruiting process. So you weren't recruiting actively Like a bunch of Places, but you were submitting your application or your resume through certain recruiters or just through online, not

TarHeelMonkey: [00:52:50] Just through recruiters, just like headhunters.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:52] And so did you have any other Interviews prior to

The offer, the one where you got an offer?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:52:58] Yeah, yeah, I had I had made it to final round. I had, yeah, I with areas. I had made it to the final round there, but I think they went with someone else and then. There was a credit fund I interviewed with, but I kind of quickly realized they were only doing senior secured term loans and holding for maturity, and that didn't really sound very thrilling or exciting to me. So I got kind of took a pass on that after a couple of those interviews and kind of quickly after that landed with Clear Capital. And they were

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:35] They were really. Were they interviews or were they interviews hard?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:53:39] No, I mean, yeah, the first couple were not hard, but they're obviously some technical ones. The Super Day interviews were tough. They were they were asking some very interesting questions that as like I didn't have, like, they're like, why is your act score so low? I'm like, Oh,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:02] Processing, you're like 80 or so low?

TarHeelMonkey:[00:54:07] That was that was it was it was a good question. You know, I think they knew it was low. It was definitely not as high as I'm sure some of the other candidates. And I think they just really wanted to see the mindset that I approached that with. And I think they appreciated that. What did you say? I told him look like it's just like standardized tests are not my forte. It's just not how I think. Like, I like to be in a more practical environment. You know, I think That's how I would earn it, just not suited to how I learn in the way I like to think it's I'm much more like an application kind of oriented person. And so I don't Necessarily do that well On kind of standardized tests, and I still don't do well on standardized tests today. I also just don't care about them. It's really just you can't say that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:03] So it's interesting. It's somebody so driven You'd think that you could just drill. And generally, Mr.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:55:10] Yeah, I, you know, I just don't just don't think like my my mind just doesn't really does do well this format. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, I'm not like a sort of read a textbook and regurgitate the answers. I always did well in school, but as because you would kind of read and you would, there was an outcome. There was a reason why you were reading it. And you can kind of attach some kind of Motivation to the academic

Work, whereas a standardized test, it's like it's really just to like, get a score like there isn't really like any

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:43] Other. You should have just told yourself this is to get into college and you should tell yourself, this is sorry that this is this is to get into. You didn't realize six or seven years down the line they'd be asking you about. Why is your act?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:56:00] My AC have my AC DC. No, it's even after having a private equity job like, you know, I still like, you know, occasionally just to kind of keep relationships up with like headhunters. Yeah, some headhunters were like reach out like ones I haven't spoken to before, and I'll just take their call just to build a dialogue for kind of down the road and like, you know, your resume doesn't have like Your sat Or act. I'm like, How is this still relevant? Like how? Why isn't my standardized score still required Like I have? And I proved it enough, like having two jobs in finance?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:32] It's unbelievable. That's unbelievable, man. I can't believe that this far out. So it sounds like it's been a good move for you. Probably using your brain a little bit more, Being able to pick the brains of CEOs and CFOs.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:56:45] Oh, absolutely. Pretty interesting. I agree. I think rewarding professionally,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:49] I think, was super, super interesting the four years I was doing it. So I agree with you. Yeah. And before we call, I think, you know, thank you for sharing your wisdom. Anything else like looking back on your story? I know I kept you a lot longer than I said I would but tell me a little bit About just any other final words Of wisdom you'd want to share with the audience. Or we call it. Yeah, I

TarHeelMonkey: [00:57:10] Think. Now, looking back like there, you don't have to do what I did To get into banking You don't have to be like insane about it you can there are plenty of kids who are, you know, who want to do this, who love the job, who are very kind of dedicated to it and still do normal things as college students and as human beings in general. And so do you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:39] Do you look back ever? And they think, Hey, I wish I had slowed down in college in four years?

TarHeelMonkey: [00:57:44] No, no, no. I mean, you're ready. My, my, my friends, my friends always like, dude, like, you missed out like that whole senior year experience. Like, we had so much fun. Like you left us all like, I get so much grief from them about it. But it was a conscious decision I made, you know, I knew what I wanted to do with my life, and I knew where I wanted to be in my career, and I kind of set out to do it. You know, I made a choice. And at the end of the day, life is all about choices, and I made the one that I felt was much more aligned to me at the time. So, yeah, maybe, maybe I missed out on some moments and I'm sure I would have enjoyed those and then maybe regret that a little bit. But at the same time, I made a choice and you got to live with it, and I feel like I turned out OK from that experience. But that would be my Advice is you don't I don't  like listening to this podcast and think like you have to like, eat, sleep and breathe banking for four years of college like that as if you have to put in the effort, But you can. You can still have fun I just I'm just like this wacko guy who just loves it to death, and it's just what really excites me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:57] Well, it's good to hear that you made it, because if you didn't, that would have been very scared. So, no, but yeah, I think that's good advice. I think you do have to put in a lot of legwork, especially Coming, you know, if

If you are kind of coming from a non target. Yeah. Well, UNC is Not I wouldn't call an odd target, but it's not like the easiest place to get in from. So, you know, you do have to put in a lot of work, even though it's a great school. So I think I think from there, it's one of those things where. Then you just have a lot less Room for error. If you're not in the right and the right groups and stuff like that, so you do need it. Absolutely.

TarHeelMonkey: [00:59:34] So absolutely. And I guess the one thing that if not just related to Banking, but just maybe career careers In general, just life goals in general is, You know, I don't I don't Know if college kids Spend. My friends, the people I

Interacted with definitely didn't, but spend a disproportionate amount of time in college thinking about what makes you tick. Explore as much as you can and really find out what your passion is, because I and I'll Always repeat, that's the only advantage I had coming in is I knew what I wanted to do. And a lot of kids in college don't know the answer to that. And so freshman year, just

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:14] We had everything on our YouTube. What you're saying right now that says this is a lie in capitals and it's it was a podcast, an interview like this of a Kid that everyone was Telling him, Don't worry Time. Don't worry about

Time. He was like a sophomore, and he's like, I think I want to do baking there. I was like, It's too late.

TarHeelMonkey: [01:00:32] It's doing things get away from me, especially now when recruiting is so early So jus just spend A lot of kids would Be like pre-med And then like, somehow turn into a business major by junior year. And it's like now it's like, it's like tough to like, find yourself into a good sort of career position out of college. When you made that switch so late,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:52] You can still get there. I mean, you can still do a couple of jumps. It takes nothing sometimes even when you graduate. If you don't end up at the firm you want, you can still lateral. You can still keep absolutely networking and end Up where you want to end up.

TarHeelMonkey: [01:01:02] But and that was also very encouraging. There's a lot of people in my group who I came from accounting backgrounds or consulting backgrounds. They just had to take one extra step. Then you would have otherwise, but they still made it. Exactly, exactly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:14] We'll listen to our hill monkey. Thanks so much for. Thanks so much for taking the time.

TarHeelMonkey: [01:01:20] Thanks so much, Patrick. Really appreciate it and happy to chat anytime and anyone is feeling more than welcome to reach out. Always happy to chat about any of these things.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:28] And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.