WSO Podcast | E179: Female Equity Trader at a BB in London from Asset-backed Securities Sales Desk in Germany
About
In this episode, EquityTrader shares her path from a Masters degree in France to working in FX Sales in Belgium. We learn why she was so confident quitting, how she ended up in Germany at a French bank working in Asset Secured Financing Sales and finally, what lead to the most jump to work in London as an equity trader over the past three years.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 179) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into
different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:25] In this episode, Equity Trader shares her path from a master's degree in France to working in sales in Belgium. We learn why she was so confident quitting how she ended up in Germany at a French bank working in asset secured financing sales. And finally, what led to the most recent job to work in London as an equity trader? Over the past three years? Enjoy. Ok. Equity trader, thanks for joining the Wall Street Wall Street Voices podcast.
EquityTrader: [00:00:58] Hi, thank you for having me
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:00] To be great. If you could just give the listeners a short summary of your bio.
EquityTrader: [00:01:04] Yeah. Ok, so now like currently, I'm working in the big international bank as a trader in equities that makes five years in total that I'm in the same business. So securities lending. I worked in different European cities for different kind of banks. And at the very beginning of my financial market career, I start as a sales in fix brokerage.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:46] Very cool brokerage, right? Yes. Very cool. Ok, so back when you were doing uni before business school even, were you thinking? I was born to be someone in finance?
EquityTrader: [00:02:01] Yes, definitely. So early on, yeah, I would say the first time I had this kind of business spark, it was right at the beginning of high school because I was really concerned of not having any idea of what I'm going to do later. So I was really trying to find, OK, what do I like with my skills? What do I want to learn and what are my priorities, you know? And also, you know, sometimes you watch a movie, you read a book or your travelling and your meeting someone. I mean, you're not really meeting someone, but just it happened that you see someone like in a situation and you're like, Ta-Da, like, you're like, Oh my God, I want to be this person. I had a bit of that during a first trip to New York because very I mean, it's very silly, but I was in a nail bar and there's, you know, full suits on business who just arrived like she was rushing and she was like, Can you please save my life because she had a meeting right after? And so she was in the neighbourhood as well. And I was looking and I was like, Oh my God, like, that's crazy. Like, she looked amazing and her life looked so cool and she was like, Yeah, I'm working in trading in the bank, and that's that's all that she said, basically. And I was
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:44] Just came up to you and said, Can you save me? What do you mean? You didn't know each other?
EquityTrader: [00:03:49] No, no. It's just like she was saying that to know the people in my bar, like she was just showing her hand and the nails were done. So she was like, Please save me and then back to where she was running, which I was 14, and I was really like, you know, impressed.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:10] You know, busy is so important, right? Exactly, exactly. Ok.
EquityTrader: [00:04:16] And yeah, otherwise then I did a lot of researches around the industry. To be honest, it was pretty difficult to get good quality information when I was in high school or even during college and university because it's really niche. And also, if you don't know anybody like, for instance, my parents are not in finance at all.
Nobody in my family is.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:49] What are they? Sorry, medicine. What are they in health?
EquityTrader: [00:04:54] Oh, not at all. They were working. They were working.
My mom as a teacher and my dad for the Navy got it. So both of the state's very public sector, you know, so yeah. So it was really difficult to get information without, you know, falling in very cliche information or very basic information that actually mean nothing. So so yeah, for instance, you know, this very standardized note that says, Oh yeah, if you're a trader after three years, you need a Plan B because you're going to have an automatic burnout or something. So yeah, that's not really encouraging when you're like, OK, I'm going to study for five years and then my career is going to be three years. Oh my god,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:52] What is this? Where did you hear that? It's just some online articles that was.
EquityTrader: [00:05:56] Yeah, that was something online. You know, one of these websites that cannot find
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:01] A lot of you didn't find Wall Street Oasis in high school.
EquityTrader: [00:06:05] No, actually, no. It's more like you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:09] I think we were around. Yeah.
EquityTrader: [00:06:11] I think it's more at the very end of my business school years when I got a bit more connected to people within the industry and I was going to after work. And so, yeah, I had, you know, more keywords to research about. And then obviously you start. Yeah, finding most phrases. Investopedia, obviously, all of that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:43] Yeah. And so you're you know, it sounds like pretty early on, you knew this is this kind of fascinating to you, this world of trading and whatnot. So you basically went went all the way through uni, kind of just not really knowing. But then you said you would apply to business school, so you knew you wanted to do something in finance or business, right?
EquityTrader: [00:07:02] Yes. So it's like I had this idea very early on about trading. Trading looks very, very appealing to me. Very exciting. Very intellectual. Yeah, a lot of adrenaline, but also that have impact in the economy. So all of that was really interesting for me. On the other side, I'm someone that is interested in many, many different things. And also, I would say, as a young woman, I think, you know, you always have the impact of your environment and also of the picture that you project around you. And as an industry, Finance is not really welcoming for women, especially not in financial markets.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:00] So when I was initially especially trading,
EquityTrader: [00:08:04] Especially trading, I mean, there's even
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:07] More
EquityTrader: [00:08:08] That also other areas, but we're not going to name them all of them. But yeah, so when I was saying, for instance, to my mathematics professor and the first day when he was just asking a few people, What do you want to do? What do you want to do? I was like, I want to be a trader. Then he was just like, silence and then getting closer to me and be like, Oh, you know, when I was a student, there was only the the best, the three best people in the room who would get that. And I was like, OK, but that's it. But then he was just like. You've been one, you know, kind of so I mean, it's
just little things like this, but it just adds up, you know, like years passing. And so obviously then that made me a bit. Is it aids about it like, OK, am I really done for this? Can I really do it?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:10] Well, so were you spending the summers? Like, what were you doing in uni, like in the U.S. at least? Internships play such a huge role to getting a full time job. Were you doing internships? What were you doing over the over your break?
EquityTrader: [00:09:23] So basically the fares at first. During my college years and also the first years of business school, so I was in France, I was studying in France and because my professor told me all you know for a personality interview like finance, you're going to get like terrible questions. It's going to be too difficult. Basically, I had an idea about financial markets, but I had I had also another idea, totally different about digital marketing. And so they were like, Yeah, you should you should more present this
idea as your career path. So at first I was like, OK, fine, I have. I have points for both of them, so I don't care. So at first, I actually did many internships and experiences as a field sales or as know assistant in digital marketing or business development. Yeah. And basically, I did that until the very last year of my master's degree, where you have to specialized, you know, to choose a major. And I mean, obviously, I cannot say, yeah, I've done everything. I know everything in marketing. Not at all. And that's really bright in fields. But I had this feeling like. I did what I wanted to do, like I was having fun and Photoshop and all of that, but it would be cool like CSS and HTML were really cool too. Yeah, but just I was like. I don't know, I feel I feel like I want to try my other idea, you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:08] There's more to learn and you felt like there's a lot more to learn in finance that were still unknown versus digital market. You felt like marketing, maybe with a few internships, you felt kind of like, OK, Is that it?
EquityTrader: [00:11:16] Yes, I was. You know, it's a bit like you, you had a big meal and then you're good. I was feeling a bit like this. I was like, I really loved marketing, but now I get enough of it, so I'm just going to move to my second idea. And so I choose finance as a major. So I have master specialize in finance, and I start kind of pivoting to my current career. So the in-between was my last year of Master's degree because so I had absolutely I never did a summer internship in a bank or wherever. I never did that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:59] How did you recruit for this first sales business?
EquityTrader: [00:12:03] So basically what I did is my last year of a master's degree, I did a kind of in-between role. Basically, I was a foot already in the finance industry because I was working for a consulting company specialized in front office financial market position. Basically, the consultant could be like quants in a bank, you know?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:30] But what? What are the consulting firm? Do they were
EquityTrader: [00:12:33] They were placing they were placing people in banks
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:36] For like a recruiting agency almost.
EquityTrader: [00:12:40] It's still consulting it, still consulting because it's like the quants are positioned in different banks. And but for short term missions, you know, OK, got it. So I was not one of them, obviously, because I'm absolutely not doing that. I don't have the skill for that, and I totally respect people who do that. But I was, you know, I was in contact with these people and was really interesting. I could ask like thousands
of question I could network. I could ask them about actually the people I wanted to be. So other front office people like sales or traders while I was capitalizing on what I was doing before. So basically, this company, I was doing more of a business development role. Yeah, I mean, it's so it's so like vague.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:32] So like, do they give you a list of people to call like, what are you actually doing so like in, you know, after? So for people for this year, you do.
EquityTrader: [00:13:40] That was before that was before then. So I did that. Then I finished my master's degree. Ok? And then so basically I was a bit OK. I have my I have my diploma. So now I'm supposed to start really the financial market career I want. And so basically in France, When you do business calls, is this idea that is very strong, That you cannot Be a trader because it's too technical and you can only be a sales and trading jobs are for engineers or, yeah, people who did engineering schools. Yes, that's a very, very strong idea. So I've been obviously kind of brainwashed because I've been through a business school in France. So basically by this time I was thinking, OK, I want to be a sales. And when I was trying to apply, obviously they were all selling me all. But you didn't do any internship in a bank you never been in a trading Floor in your life. Yeah. And that was my main problem because I was like, Yeah, but if you don't let me in. How am I supposed to do? So that was a big problem. So all the big banks were absolutely not open to me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:01] This is, by the way, this is what I always say. People are like when somebody tells you, you have time to decide it's actually not true. It makes your life a lot harder if you take longer to decide. Yeah, and is like, if you know you're in uni or if you know, right, when you start business school and you're not doing like marketing and, you know, if you can get an internship, it just makes the path so much easier, right?
EquityTrader: [00:15:23] Yeah. No, it makes sense, definitely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:25] So how did you how did you actually get in to sales? How did you
EquityTrader: [00:15:28] Actually? So basically, as I said, I I did a lot of networking. I've been to many conferences after work first to just, you know, also learn about the industry, like observe a bit how people were behaving, talking. Honestly, I learned a lot even about like, you know, vocabulary, like the jargon and all of that. What was important for them, what they were looking for in colleagues and also obviously like about their jobs. And through my thesis, I interviewed two different sales guys. One was in a big bank and the other one was working in brokerage. And that kind of inspired me because I was like, OK, this is not a smaller structure. In this case, it was like an international broker, an American Firm. But just I noticed that the brokerage industry was a bit more flexible, like they were less about this very structured path of summer internship and then graduate and then permanent position. It was a bit more if you have a good fit, if your personality match with the team, if they feel like they can really train you and then you can be like a good sales because you you're eager enough to to be that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:09] Then permits them to do that. They interview help like you showed your intelligent, you were really interested about it. And then he was like, You're hired or come work for us or how did it work?
EquityTrader: [00:17:18] Yeah, that's I think that's basically that. So then after I was in contact with this person, so I was like, OK, I think I got a bit an idea of how I'm going to do this. So I was like, OK, I need to. I need to apply for four broker's positions. And for the listeners,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:38] Can you talk to about what an ex broker would even do like? What is the role of this effect? Yes.
EquityTrader: [00:17:44] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:44] For like I think people are like, what's sales? What's broker, you know, broker? Do you think of somebody in between? But like, what are you doing as a sales broker?
EquityTrader: [00:17:51] I know for sure. So I have to say I would say this this position can change a lot in its contents depend on which firm you're going to work in. In my case, so that was an average sized brokerage company. So that's not like market securities or something like this. Ok, so you have to keep that in mind. That was a company that was more markets like a fintech, so a bit more of a startup mindset. And it was really at the early stage of development as well. So yeah, you have to keep that in mind, obviously, when you apply, you're not going to have the same role in a huge
broker that is already very established or in a small brokerage.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:47] So in this company, what was the business model like? How were you actually charging the clients?
EquityTrader: [00:18:51] So here? So you had obviously, you know, commissions like on your different trades. And so my role basically was to develop the business, so to create a portfolio. So I was managing existing clients that would be allocated to me, follow up with them about their use of ethics, giving them market analyses.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:23] Can you give me an example of like one of the deals you put together for them? And like what? How much that would make the firm? Um, approximately like, OK, there's a company in X Y Z. They have a lot of exposure to like,
EquityTrader: [00:19:36] For instance. That's so I was taking care of corporate clients. So we're not talking about institutional clients here. It's really corporate clients. It was more like average sized company, no listed companies here. So that could be really anything that could be like the small shop that you can find in a Japanese exhibits,
you know, selling product from Japan. And then you have obviously some Ethics like GPI and TPP or that could go up to, uh, a huge company that is on Alta next, for instance, that is in in medical products. And that's by some supply in the U.S., for instance, and then
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:30] Again, need some sort of hedging strategy to protect themselves on currency fluctuations.
EquityTrader: [00:20:34] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:34] So that's maybe their inputs are like in one currency, but they're working. They're selling in another.
EquityTrader: [00:20:41] Yeah, that can be that different since they can be pooling their assets in in their location currency, for instance, if they're based in France. So all of their balance sheets are in euros, but they're buying regular a large amount of supply in the U.S. So you have some ethics going on and obviously at certain at a certain scale, it has an impact on your revenue. So you have to yeah, you have to hedge yourself in and you have to monitor that. So then basically, I would I would call this a lot that would
be like a big day. I mean, sometimes I was like with two phones around the head, so that was pretty intense. But then it was mostly it was spot orders. And also, I have to say that within these fintechs, there was really the idea of, OK, we are maintaining client relationship, but also we are selling the use of a platform. So basically, the idea is that the client can be really independent if they want to. And that's obviously in our favour because the more the client is independent, the less you have to take care of them and then you can go and turn for new clients.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:12] So yeah. Interesting. So you're you're doing calls. You're are you doing calls to try and get new clients wondering
EquityTrader: [00:22:18] Gould's managing relationship? I'm giving commentaries and is perceived as big news updates, exactly. But also sometimes it has also some pretty. Um. Yeah. Funny or even weird side of the job. Like, sometimes you know you can find
ethics clients in in the big fairs, for instance, like when they're selling fish, when they're sitting Asian products, when they're selling Arts as well. So then I was just like during one day I had a list of potential clients and I was just like doing huge fairs and trying to to create new relationships like this. So that was quite interesting and quite nice, to be honest.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:13] Yeah. So you're only there for or you're there for under a year. Why jump? Why move? What happened? They close.
EquityTrader: [00:23:21] So there was a bit of personal reason, but then also I also
wanted to evolve in my career and I was thinking, OK, I have now I have my experience in a trading floor, so nobody can tell me you've never been in training for. So I'm done good. Um, and also I maybe I would like to live in another country. And also maybe I would like to work for a bigger structure. So, so yeah, for all of these different reasons, I stopped working in this company. Then I went back to my country for maybe like a month or two, and then I moved to Germany. And so I start again.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:23] You quit your job, you quit your job and went back to your home country before you had another job lined up. Yes. Yes. So that's what gave you the confidence to do that just because, well, you're just because you have my
EquityTrader: [00:24:34] Experience, because of my experience, because as I said, I did work quite a lot. So I was having obviously you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:42] Knew you had, you knew you had opportunities, you were still getting like you had a lot of, you know, a lot of contacts that are all around Europe.
EquityTrader: [00:24:48] You felt like it was not really about contacts, to be honest. Like, I was still a nobody, like a newbie. And honestly, I had I mean, not no clue, but I didn't have the knowledge I have now. And like at this time, I had really no flair but markets. So it's not about the contacts, it's just I observed, like the resume of many people and I just knew, OK, I have one year experience in the trading floor as a sales ethics sales, which often refers to a pretty intense product for many people. So that's quite that's quite strong. So I just thought, OK, I'm really confident in the fact that
I can resell that to a bigger bank. And also, I noticed that in the great programs of French banks, they were really, really eager to hire people who know how to speak German. And I know how to speak German. I'm not fluent because it's a really difficult language, but I have very good Skills in that. So basically I just spot a very strong competitive advantage I Had. So I Didn't. I didn't waste my time trying to apply to New York or London like everybody. And I just I just applied directly for Germany and I got it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:21] Awesome. And so like when you were when you moved back home, so you quit, did you get a bonus at all or their bonus structure was like one year? Did you lose your bonus or did you get it? No.
EquityTrader: [00:26:32] I mean, as I say, that was very start-up thing. There was no bonus included.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:38] Do you mind sharing what your base salary was around or arrange?
EquityTrader: [00:26:43] Yes, so. And I say that because if we look at
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:48] The long time, it was like, you know, I don't even know what would it be like forty thousand euros?
EquityTrader: [00:26:51] Yes, that was that was pretty honest. You're going to be disappointed already.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:57] I'm not disappointed. It's fine.
EquityTrader: [00:26:59] I think, I think that was around 25k euros
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:27:05] A year. Ok, that sounds about right to start up, right? Ok, so you're.
EquityTrader: [00:27:09] You quit, so that was in Belgium, and also I had some some perks like on the side of that, so. So yeah, but yeah, that's pretty. That's pretty. Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:27:24] So you she went home, she went, you went home. And then did you move to Germany first before applying or you got the job you applied from?
EquityTrader: [00:27:33] No. So yeah, I waited. Basically, I went home also because I was not earning any money anymore. So know, in this case, for me, it's automatic. It's like, OK, go back to your parents where you're not going to pay anything. So, so yeah. So that's why I went back home as well, because
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:27:50] They was it a downsizing or something else personal? The reason you went back, you don't want to share. Why you? Why you?
EquityTrader: [00:27:57] I mean, it was just, you know, there was like some romantic thing going on break up in particular. But yeah, so basically, I felt like, OK, that was kind of it was a good break for me. It was the time it was, yeah, exactly. It was just a good thing to go back home, kind of clean up the situation and then move on, basically. So I did, though the whole thing in one time, I actually said that at my Interview for the next job because they were there were a bit concerned that I was a young lady coming to Germany. While I have no family there and they were like, She's not going to move. She she's not going to dare to move like this for a year or two. And I was like, Oh, you know, I'm flexible. I dropped everything like even the boyfriend, So I can move. And yeah, I think that's quite good to say this kind of thing. I mean, first, because it's true and also because it's funny. And, you know, during an interview, everybody's stressed. So at least like if you make them
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:29:11] Laugh, you know, because I look exactly where they were, they nervous because you left before or they were nervous just because it was a totally new country and you didn't know anybody there.
EquityTrader: [00:29:19] I think they were stressed because they already had very good candidates that reject offers, because just Germany, it was not that attractive for them and they didn't know, yeah, they didn't know anybody in the city.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:29:37] So got it. Ok, so enough about that. So you get there, you decide to make the leap, you convince them that you're ready and you're going to
Stay there. You're not going to leave in three months. So. Exactly. So you get there and you're now in what, you know,as a secured kind of financing sales, we'll call it. Exactly. Yeah. So what do we? Tell me a little bit about just that specific role. And like, what does that even mean for people who are clueless? Like me, I never worked in a trading desk, so explain to me what you were doing day to day.
EquityTrader: [00:30:08] Sure. So this was a totally new product for me. So obviously, like the learning curve was huge. Also, my team at this time was really a tiny Team, so that means that I was I was really seeing a full range of products and also directly, I had a lot uh. I mean, I cannot say a lot of responsibilities because I was still just grad. But still I was in contact. And yeah, I was in contact with a lot of different tasks, a lot of different businesses, a lot of different people as well. I was going to see the clients with manager. So that was pretty nice because also most of the grads or Interns were not allowed to do that. But I was because again, tiny team and also I was speaking German. So I was, yeah, I was allowed to do this kind of thing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:31:13] So that's know for those for the listeners, secured finance assets, secured financing, basically, you're helping.
EquityTrader: [00:31:21] So basically, the business is in securities lending. So as a name, say so you're not buying or selling, but you're lending or borrowing. So there's a bit the twist of the desk. And then within this umbrella name, you have different kind of product. So on the Equity side, you have what we call equity, finance or stock loan. So basically it's a single stock that you're going to lend or borrow against a fee and a collateral. So you have a two way exchange. And on the fixed income side, we're going to use what we call a repo. So repurchase agreements. And that's a bit similar to business. It's like, for instance, if you have like a bond that your lending, then your borrower is going to receive the bond. He's going to send you a fee and a collateral that can be anything like cash or another bond or equity. So then it's really up to the contract that she negotiated. We call that collateral schedule with your counterparty in and yeah, and that's it and the needs. Obviously, the strategy is in place within the lending program.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:32:51] It sounds complicated. It sounds. Sorry.
EquityTrader: [00:32:55] No, no. It's really good when you have a drawing, you know a scheme, you can really see the different flows and all of that. So yeah, just speaking, it's I think people
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:33:05] Should be visiting the finance dictionary after this.
EquityTrader: [00:33:09] Just on a see if you just like Google Stock Loan Securities, lending and repo. I think you're already quite covered half the way there. Yeah. For a newbie, for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:33:21] For sure. No. So that's good. I mean, so you're there, you're kind of you're learning a lot because you're seeing a lot of different new products. You're having a lot of cooperation in strategy from everywhere, from back office. You know, you're at a bigger bank, right? It's not exactly.
EquityTrader: [00:33:33] I'm in an international bank, so I'm really seeing what I wanted to see. That was a bit the first time I was feeling like I'm where I wanted to be. So that's already a great feeling. And also my death is quite well located because we are in contact with other desk worldwide. So then I could talk to people in New York, people in Paris, people in London, in Hong Kong, in Tokyo as well. So the exposure was huge. And also because I love traveling, I yeah, I kind of try to match my vacation with. The city's first offense, because most of them I never been to. And also for networking because it was always the good excuse to, you know, go to the office and do a bit of handshaking and Yeah, all of that. So yeah, I really try to make the most of of being inside of this company.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:34:45] That's very cool. So, yeah, you got to travel to Hong Kong, London, Tokyo. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's awesome. So you're there for a year and a half, kind of. What makes you think now is a good time to move where it was a year? You do want to speak German anymore or what was the thought?
EquityTrader: [00:35:03] So that was so as I said, that's that was a bit the French equivalent of a graduate program. So that was a term contract. So that's why it ended. And was it?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:35:17] I assume it was still a pay bump over the fintech place. Sorry, I assume it was still paid more than the original sales job.
EquityTrader: [00:35:26] Yes, yes, it was. It was, and also it was not taxed, which is really nice too.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:35:31] Oh, nice. How what was the pay? Around forty thousand fifty thousand?
EquityTrader: [00:35:36] Not that much, though, 30 ish. Yeah, it was more around €30K.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:35:42] Ok, so now here were their bonuses on the sales desk or how should we
EquityTrader: [00:35:49] Know bonuses for the grads now?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:35:51] Got it. Ok, because it's considered soul right out, right out of right out of the master's program.
EquityTrader: [00:35:55] Basically, it's as I say, it's an equivalent. It's a French equivalent to what we call graduate programs in the US or the UK. But I was not I wasn't an employee of the bank. So we call that the I e and basically you sent abroad by the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And so basically I was legally an employee of the French ministry, not of the bank.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:36:30] Why do they do that?
EquityTrader: [00:36:32] Um, so that's a Program that's want to encourage Young French people to work for French companies abroad.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:36:43] French basically got it to help to help the French companies abroad kind of get some talent.
EquityTrader: [00:36:50] Yeah, and also to offer a very protected way of having a broad experiences for four young people, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. So that can last up to two years. I signed directly for a year and a half. But sometimes you can just sign for one year and then go on if you're happy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:37:14] So. So how did you know a year and a half? That's good. And then how did you start looking for your next job?
EquityTrader: [00:37:21] So as I said during this job, I try really to network a lot beside of my Job, I created also a conference club that was organizing monthly conferences about finance and leadership. So through this, I met a lot of people as well. But then then, yeah, I was playing like everybody. I was playing a bit everywhere on this. I was really playing worldwide and sometime hit showers. Yeah, they were a bit disturbed by this. But where I was like anywhere, where there's a psychic change because there was a
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:38:07] Head, hunters were disturbed that you didn't have a preference for city or anything. You? Yes.
EquityTrader: [00:38:11] Yeah. Because I mean, to be honest, like I, I travelled during this time, I travelled to the main financial hub in the world. So.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:38:20] So you were considering London, New York, Hong Kong, Singapore, Singapore. You didn't care. You said whatever is the most interesting or best offer?
EquityTrader: [00:38:29] Exactly. I was more like, I know the job I want. So just I want this job.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:38:34] What is the job you wanted to do the same job just somewhere else?
EquityTrader: [00:38:37] Yes, I at this time, yeah, I was still, as I said, I was still brainwashed. Yeah, I can only be a size. I cannot be a trader is too difficult. But actually, when I met my traders in New York, that's kind of where things start shifting a bit because I was saying that I was like, Yeah, I'm trying to apply to sales jobs. And they were like, yeah, but what about trading jobs? And I was like, I know I can't like why. And I was like. I don't know. And then, like, come on, you should apply, you should apply, and maybe I apply to a few, but I was not really convinced. And um, and actually so I spend like a few months applying spending time, like passing interviews. But at the end, that's quite funny because actually the way I got my job is not through all of these applications. So at the end, I had different options. I had three different offers. You know, there was there was one offer that was a bit on the research side of things because I really like behavioural Finance and I kind of pitched myself to a desk in Paris internally. And we were talking about a potential position in this area. So that would have been a very big shift. Like that would have been a bit difficult and difficult, but a bit
different. But it was very interesting
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:40:23] To research is very different.
EquityTrader: [00:40:25] Yeah. But I mean, I love the topic. And honestly, if I could do a PhD in that, I would. So I was I was really I was really going for it anyway. So that was for Paris. Otherwise I was shortlisted for a sales job in Hong Kong. Cool. And finally, so
actually my current job in London, I got it. Not because I never applied to it, and I never
saw the job description of my job, which is weird. But basically one of my clients when I was in Germany talked with someone of the bank. I'm working for now and they were looking for someone and they were and basically said, Oh, I know someone who is looking for a job right now. And so they contacted me, asking me, Is London an option for you? And I was like, yes. And then, you know, then I paused interviews. Everything worked well for me, and that's it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:38] But this is for a trading. This is for a trading role now.
EquityTrader: [00:41:40] Yeah. So that was that's the funny part, basically. So when they approached me first time by email, they were talking about a sales job. So I was I was obviously up for it because I was a sales already, which I was like, Yeah, of course. Then when I arrived, when we met, the first person I met told me, Oh, by the way, I actually is going to be a sales trader role. But then it was like, Yeah, well, whatever, I'm here. So yeah, I'm done for it too. And then when I received my contract to sign it, so by email as well on my contract, it was within trader only. So I was like, OK, fine.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:42:24] But HTC gradually moved you over. She's just pure trading and you're not doing any sales. But I mean, sales, trading and sales are in their length, right? So tell me about like how things I'd love to hear, how things have shift from like the pure sales to now you're the trader.
EquityTrader: [00:42:38] Yeah. So tell me about that. That's that's definitely not an in-between sales trading role, and that's definitely a pure trading role for the simple reason that we have a sales team to help us. So definitely, I'm not doing the job. You're actually execute, you're actually executing the trades and looking at markets and. Yes, exactly.
So as
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:43:01] We look at making what doing risk trying to
EquityTrader: [00:43:05] Deal with. So basically, I'm managing the risk on my books
covering the interest of the clients that are manage by the sales guys. And otherwise, you know, internally trying to optimize revenues on the different books and and working on some optimization for internal processes as well. Yeah, that's basically the overview
of the job.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:43:38] Tell me about the culture. Are people screaming all the time? Is it calm? Is it?
EquityTrader: [00:43:42] Not at all. That's that's a that's a big cliché. Yeah, that that's coming every time. But yeah, that's because of what you see on the screen. There's no
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:43:53] Hazing. There's no hazing.
EquityTrader: [00:43:56] I mean, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:43:57] A little time.
EquityTrader: [00:43:58] Interns, so sometimes obviously, you know, if you have like a big news and a lot of these. Yeah, a lot of going on, then maybe you're going to be like shouting to your thighs and then back to you because that's a very quick way to communicate and we are city very close to each other. But other ways most of our job is virtual, so we're going to just see a lot of people lined up, seated at the desk and working, looking at the screens. So. So it's not it's not like screaming and moving everywhere and like, you know, being like almost jumping and coming about.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:44:49] Tell me about what it's like being a female on the desk and
EquityTrader: [00:44:52] How you felt just kind
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:44:55] Of just when you started there and that can be firm all the way back to now.
EquityTrader: [00:44:59] Yeah, that's yeah, that's actually interesting because there's a big change, like since I'm in London, basically in the team I'm working in. That's the first time in my career ever that I'm not the only woman in my team. Yeah, and that's a huge change. We're only two, but two out of four. So that's nice. Yeah. And yeah, that that can seem like a very, you know, small thing to say. But that's that changed the whole dynamic in an in a good way because otherwise, If you only see guys, if you notice that you're only four women in the whole trading floor, well, you feel a bit alone and just you feel like something is wrong here, you know, because it's not like outside in the streets, like there. Yeah, it's not mixed at all. Yeah. So yeah, when I was in the brokerage company, I was the only sales female cells working there. And in my first bank position again, I was I was the only woman in the team. And yeah, we were only four or five women in the trading floor that was small trading for maybe 50, 60 people in total. But still, that's very small if you look at the present. So. So yeah, I mean, definitely I would say currently, I'm in a bank that definitely is giving very good efforts to to do a shift. And I noticed it like from day one because in comparison to the other bank was still very traditional, I would say. Um yeah, it was. It was really like, yeah, it shows like it really shows like, do you
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:47:18] Feel like you feel like you're more at home and comfortable at your current bank?
EquityTrader: I'm uncomfortable because, as I said, like if inside of the company looks more like outside in the street, I think that's a good yeah, that's a good sign. It's a healthy sign because otherwise, if you're walking through the rows and I don't know
you're seeing only old white male, basically, that's just very weird. You're like, OK, where are the others? Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:47:51] So where's everybody
EquityTrader: [00:47:52] Else? Exactly, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:47:54] So you, so do you feel like this is potentially a long term home for you? I know you've been there for over three years already. What's the thought process in terms of future for you? I'm happy where I am right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:48:08] Then is it pay a big jump going to London?
EquityTrader: [00:48:13] Um, I was a bit scared of this move because I knew it was kind of a long term move. Uh, in comparison, uh, to to before where it was, you know, term contract or a very the very beginning of my career. Like that time, I knew like, uh, that choice was going to be at least, I don't know, five years choice. So I was a bit more stressed and also because also people told me, Ah, when like once I chose, they were like, Oh, you're going to London? Oh my God, the Pace is totally different. This is not
Germany. They're going to work due to the bone. So I was I was a bit stressed about that. And basically the first six months I've been in London, I was really taking care of myself like I was a sportswoman or something like, I
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:49:08] Don't know, I was. I was athlete. You're like working out every day. Exactly.
EquityTrader: [00:49:11] But honestly, like when you think of it, like when you when you see what is required from you for a front office job, like a trader or sales or even lemonade business. Yeah, they want you to be perfect and they want you to be quick. They want you to be precise. They want you to be like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:49:34] So you're saying they should all force their traders, the M&A banker teams, onto the Peloton or something like that? I don't know the half hour.
EquityTrader: [00:49:44] I would say. That's honestly when you when you look at what is required from you, the comparison between you and an athlete is actually quite easy to do because then like, yeah, I was I was just being super careful about my sleep. But what I was eating, I was going to gym.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:50:03] You were you were working 80 hour weeks and you were working at what? Sixty five seventy?
EquityTrader: [00:50:07] When you started, I would say 60, 60 hours a week, yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:50:13] So you can still kind of work out at 60 hours a week, right? You can't.
EquityTrader: [00:50:18] Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm going to the gym like three times a week during the week.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:50:22] Yeah. It's like once you hit like 80, 90, it starts getting hard.
EquityTrader: [00:50:27] Really hard. Oh, yeah, definitely. I would never do M&A and all my condolences to other people who do that. They are really brave. I would never do that. Never.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:50:39] Yes. The different world. Yeah, so you're so you're you were doing you had like about thirty thousand euros kind of come in there and then at this larger bank, was it, you know, closer to 40, would you say now?
EquityTrader: [00:50:54] I'm on and not actually physically all of it double.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:50:58] Yes, a closer to sixty thousand. Yeah. Ok. And then they yeah, and they have
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:51:05] Bonuses too, which can be a lot, right?
EquityTrader: [00:51:07] Yeah. Like, on average, it's I mean, it can be in the 20 to 30 percent,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:51:15] 30, 20, 30 percent. Yeah. Very cool, that's really helpful. It just gives me more.
EquityTrader: [00:51:20] Yeah, obviously sometimes you have a bad year, and that's nice.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:51:24] Sometimes it's a bad, bad year. It can be zero and sometimes it's a great year and it could be closer to 40 percent or whatever. Yeah, for sure. Ok, well, before we call it, thanks for talking for so long about about your experiences, any other kind of final words of wisdom, kind of looking back on your path.
Equity Trader: [00:51:41] Um, with them, they came back
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:51:46] To seeing your path like you. You've jumped countries, you jumped companies, you jumped kind of product groups. Any thoughts on just overall? Kind of.
EquityTrader: [00:51:57] I'm pretty happy about my career. It was tough, But I'm really happy with all the experiences I got and I think I did quite well. So I'm fine, but I'm always like looking, You know, in the future, looking forward
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:52:18] And being curious.
EquityTrader: [00:52:21] Yeah, exactly. I think when you reach, for instance, your first permanent job, you can feel a bit obviously very excited, very proud, very happy. But then you have this kind of rebound feeling like you're like, OK, what's next now? Like, I'm kind of done. So what should I do? And I think I felt a bit like this like during my first year. And it was quite paradoxical because first year in London, I was learning a lot. That was new City, new life, new people, new everything and new job. So I was learning tons of things, but at the same time I was a bit feeling. Um, yeah, I kind of fool, so I was like, OK, I'm just going to stay here forever now or what? Yeah.
[00:53:22] Complacency is not fun, right? And you kind of feel like, Oh, OK, I made it, I made it. Finally, what do I do?
EquityTrader: [00:53:29] Yeah, yeah, that's,you know, like when you when you put so much and so badly for something. And then finally, you get where you want, uh, then your bits.Ok, fine. So I think, yeah, find out what would be like. Uh, it's uh, obviously it's really nice to have different experiences, But I think having goals and priorities within this, this goals is the Most important thing because it's really it really drives you. Mm hmm. For sure. I love it.
EquityTrader: [00:54:12] Well, I appreciate it, equity traders, we're going to call you now, but I appreciate, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your wisdom with everyone. Yeah, of course.
EquityTrader: [00:54:22] And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street, Oasis, if you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
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