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Got Game Or Got Games?
 

Asatar's picture
O
(King Kong, 1,968
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 6:30pm
Got Game Or Got Games?

Lets face it, the majority of people currently going into investment banking are male (sorry bankerella!), early 20s, above average intelligence and probably quite averse to serious sports.

You know what else fits that category well? Gamers.

I am going to publicly admit to being a fairly avid gamer and I’m willing to bet a lot of you other monkeys are as well. Yes, I’ve played my fair share of World of Warcraft in my younger days (world top 10 guild ftw) as well as Call of Duty and Starcraft.

Many ‘senior’ people (read: anyone above the age of 30) is likely to have a pretty dim view of us ‘young gamers’ and probably imagine us to be living in a dark basement, eating Doritos and staying up for weeks on end for a Red Bull-fuelled nerd binge. However, consider the following points for a resumé:

  • Led a team of 24 people from various cultural and geographic backgrounds
  • Organised and ran activities requiring a high degree of co-ordination from all team members
  • Delegated different roles to each team member depending on their own strengths and characteristics
  • Overcame new problems which required different techniques and adapting to rapidly-changing situations to solve

Pretty good for a fit interview no? That is basically a summary of what I spent several hours a day doing on World of Warcraft in my late teens but I would never even dream of putting it on my resumé due to the stigma attached.

I would argue that todays youth and those aiming at high finance probably learnt some of their best skills through gaming. You learn multitasking, teamwork, adaptation and the ability to sit almost perfectly still in a chair staring at a screen for several hours at a time while communicating on a headset – ideal skills for an incoming analyst.

So let me hear your views! Who here is courageous enough to admit to their gaming past / present and also do you think in this modern digital age that playing video games can actually enhance your personal skills? Should gaming at the very top level be just as respected as college sports?

See my other WSO blog posts>
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Comments

Ravenous's picture

I don't have anything against

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 6:57pm

I don't have anything against online games, but I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that leading a group of 24 people in online dungeons & dragons will make you a better banker. The average person doing the hiring is likely to agree with me on this, and I think if you talked about this during an interview it would almost certainly backfire on you. Online gaming will never be as respected as college sports.

FWIW, I would have the same reaction to someone trying to convince me they are a value investor because they won last year's fantasy football pool (which is dungeons & dragons for jocks).

Edit: On second thought, this can't be a real post. You got me. I'm trolled.

Asatar's picture

Ravenous: I don't have

O
(King Kong, 1,968
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 7:09pm
Ravenous:

I don't have anything against online games, but I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that leading a group of 24 people in online dungeons & dragons will make you a better banker. The average person doing the hiring is likely to agree with me on this, and I think if you talked about this during an interview it would almost certainly backfire on you. Online gaming will never be as respected as college sports.

FWIW, I would have the same reaction to someone trying to convince me they are a value investor because they won last year's fantasy football pool (which is dungeons & dragons for jocks).

Edit: On second thought, this can't be a real post. You got me. I'm trolled.

It's definitely a real post! I'm not for one second saying people SHOULD use this stuff, I'm just asking the question as to why it's so frowned upon and why is leading 24 other people (even if its in a fantasy game) any less reputable than being captain of some sports team (if they are both done to the same level).

I would say that a lot of it is because people who have no knowledge of either top-end gaming or top-end sport would automatically assume that the sports captain is a better leader and that gaming is just something easy that any kid can do if they put in enough time and effort.

See my other WSO blog posts>

monkeyoasis's picture

Ravenous has clearly never

 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 7:28pm

Ravenous has clearly never played any of the games the OP mentioned.

As for me, old time lurker, first time poster because this is such an epic thread. 2-3yr WoW gamer, quit senior year high school, got back last month after I ended my college junior year internship. Also played SC with southkorean classmates (u can imagine how competitive that was), AoE and many others in the good old days.

One of 10 best guild worldwide, that is impressive. Coordinating 40 people (now 25) to show up every day and motivating them to do what's best for the guild, attend meetings, ascend in rank, etc. is all very impressive and applicable to careers in business. I actually think my current guild master is a better leader than my old boss, lol!

The problem with mentioning this in a resume / internship is that most people with hiring power in Wall Street are like Ravenous, they have never played such games at a competitive level, so they don't know what it takes. Maybe if more ppl like us make it up the ranks in a few years this might change.

LilJon101's picture

I'd auto ding you because you

 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 7:26pm

I'd auto ding you because you didn't lead the old school vanilla 40 people raids

Ravenous's picture

Yes, it's because people have

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 7:29pm

Yes, it's because people have no knowledge, are not creative / are risk averse, and because people put an excessively high premium on sports experience because it is highly socially regarded. That said, I can't think of even one really good investor who was a star college athlete, and my bias is against athletes in general when I am hiring (there's zero chance a lax bro even gets an interview). Maybe it's different in banking though.

I played a lot of chess when I was younger at a very high level and that is probably THE reason that I ended up at a top hedge fund. I assume some games are similar. But games are much harder to sell. People are dumb. You have to communicate in well understood narratives.

Ravenous's picture

monkeyoasis: Ravenous has

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 7:31pm
monkeyoasis:

Ravenous has clearly never played any of the games the OP mentioned.

As for me, old time lurker, first time poster because this is such an epic thread. 2-3yr WoW gamer, quit senior year high school, got back last month after I ended my college junior year internship. Also played SC with southkorean classmates (u can imagine how competitive that was), AoE and many others in the good old days.

One of 10 best guild worldwide, that is impressive. Coordinating 40 people (now 25) to show up every day and motivating them to do what's best for the guild, attend meetings, ascend in rank, etc. is all very impressive and applicable to careers in business. I actually think my current guild master is a better leader than my old boss, lol!

The problem with mentioning this in a resume / internship is that most people with hiring power in Wall Street are like Ravenous, they have never played such games at a competitive level, so they don't know what it takes. Maybe if more ppl like us make it up the ranks in a few years this might change.

Like I said, I'm neutral. I have never played these games and admit that I don't know. But I can assure you that most people are negative, and you will shoot yourself in the foot if you try to pitch that during an interview.

oowij's picture

Actually went semi-pro

 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 7:40pm

Actually went semi-pro e-gaming for Counter Strike 1.6 back in the day, those were seriously the days....nothing to worry about except upcoming scrims and matches.

I've always wanted to put this under my Interests section on my resume.

vitaminc's picture

Just FYI, people in their 30s

AM
(Baboon, 115
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 8:20pm

Just FYI, people in their 30s played video games as well.

LAN party anyone? BBS dial ups RTS games? Or Final Fantasy when it was still a fantasy game instead of a SciFi thriller starting at FF7?

Nothing wrong being a gamer, but its going to be a hard sell as a story/competitive advantage, unless you were fighting for the ZNGA deal. Didn't that MD has a very high level Farmville toon or something, probably farmed out by a poor associate?

BTbanker's picture

I've never found much appeal

IB
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 8:23pm

I've never found much appeal in video games. Not sure why.

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

Relinquis's picture

NEVER ever bring up video

RE
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 8:40pm

NEVER ever bring up video games in any of your interviews or networking. People will hold it against you and think of you as immature / childlike.

Even after getting a job, don't talk about video games for the first year on the job unless you happen to be at your associates place and he invites you to a game of Pro Evolution Soccer or something.

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

DELETED_ACCOUNT's picture

Ravenous: That said, I can't

 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 8:48pm
Ravenous:

That said, I can't think of even one really good investor who was a star college athlete, and my bias is against athletes in general when I am hiring (there's zero chance a lax bro even gets an interview). Maybe it's different in banking though.

Mark Holowesko, protégé of Sir John Templeton is an Olympic Athlete.

I don't play, but I recognize the rigor of international competition, and the diligence required by elite gamers. If you're an elite player it is not going to hurt you dropping a title/achievement under 'Interests.' I've met extremely successful people who are vocal about their quirky interests in WOW/comic books/Magic (card game). And, if you connect with them...that definitely makes you stand out.

DELETED_ACCOUNT

peyo212's picture

For what it's worth, I had

PT
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 10:29pm

For what it's worth, I had this on my resume (it's legit) and I was told that this was one of the biggest things that one of my final round interviewers liked about me:

Gaming Club Name
Co-founder, President, Video
- United gaming community on campus and spearheaded the establishment of an intercollegiate league
- Successfully solicited several media outlets for club promotion and publicity, including the New York Times
- Secured alumni sponsorship and funding by effectively communicating vision and long-term strategy for club’s sustenance

It's not that they don't understand that gaming can be legit, it's that they want to see more than just that you play it a lot. Kind of like in sports, they're looking for team captains (or at least they should be, I totally agree that the bias is usually overblown on the sell-side), not just players.

But also, they like students who achieve at high levels in sports. I think this is unfair. I was ranked internationally for a bit in Guitar Hero and played Super Smash Bros. competitively, but I didn't dare put that on my resume aside from "competitive/professional gaming" in my "Interests & Activities" section.

Nabooru's picture

i love scrabble

(Gorilla, 689
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 10:57pm

i love scrabble

Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

Relinquis's picture

Nabooru: i love scrabble I

RE
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 9/5/12 at 11:55pm
Nabooru:

i love scrabble

I prefer chess, but became disillusioned with the game for a while after toiletgate ...

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

SirTradesaLot's picture

Ok, read what you wrote again

O
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 12:20am

Ok, read what you wrote again with an open mind.

Asatar:
  • Led a team of 24 people from various cultural and geographic backgrounds
  • Organised and ran activities requiring a high degree of co-ordination from all team members
  • Delegated different roles to each team member depending on their own strengths and characteristics
  • Overcame new problems which required different techniques and adapting to rapidly-changing situations to solve

Pretty good for a fit interview no? That is basically a summary of what I spent several hours a day doing

This could also describe the activities of someone who directed an epic porno. The difference being that this guy would have made a lot of money.

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

Jamess1's picture

I love this post. I'm sure

CF
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 12:50am

Blue horseshoe loves Anacott Steel

JDimon's picture

Umm 1) As previously said,

(Orangutan, 252
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 1:18am

There is already a book on you. That book is already being written. And if I talked to your friends, your teachers, your professionals, your family, I would know so much about you I wouldn't even have to meet you. You write the book the way you want to be

Mulah's picture

What about poker? Would you

O
(Monkey, 30
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 1:24am
Cries's picture

I'm guilty of the

IB
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 1:53am
AggregateDemand's picture

I am a level 83 hunter, I

(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 2:21am
Heist's picture

Although I would take you

(Baboon, 129
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 2:50am
phcap's picture

AggregateDemand: small-cap

HF
(Monkey, 36
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 3:24am
Asatar's picture

SirTradesaLot: Ok, read what

O
(King Kong, 1,968
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 4:05am

See my other WSO blog posts>

JDimon's picture

Mulah: What about poker?

(Orangutan, 252
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 4:16am

There is already a book on you. That book is already being written. And if I talked to your friends, your teachers, your professionals, your family, I would know so much about you I wouldn't even have to meet you. You write the book the way you want to be

Zafrynex's picture

Just to say this is complete

(Baboon, 139
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 4:47am
International Pymp's picture

Not mentioning Halo or Diablo

RE
(King Kong, 1,882
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 6:58am
Mr. Hansen's picture

People do have a negative

(Gorilla, 519
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 8:26am
accountingbyday's picture

I definitely fall into the

CF
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 10:23am
DonVon's picture

Another game that could get

IB
(King Kong, 1,914
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 10:29am

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Check out my blog!

neilol's picture

oowij: Actually went semi-pro

IB
(Orangutan, 251
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 10:42am
oowij's picture

neilol: oowij: Actually

 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 11:53am
CaR's picture

I have more than a few

O
(Gorilla, 643
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 12:20pm

I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.
Kurt Vonnegut

Ravenous's picture

I can see strategy games

HF
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 12:27pm
DonVon's picture

CaR: No one that I'm aware of

IB
(King Kong, 1,914
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 12:29pm

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Check out my blog!

CaR's picture

Vontropnats: CaR: No one

O
(Gorilla, 643
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 12:37pm

I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.
Kurt Vonnegut

dwight schrute's picture

I played lots of axis and

(Gorilla, 673
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 2:01pm

Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art - Andy Warhol

Improving's picture

I almost made a living out of

(Monkey, 33
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 2:38pm
pickle's picture

MMORPGs are a waste of time,

(Monkey, 44
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 5:12pm
chicandtoughness's picture

Raising my hand. I used to

CS
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 8:32pm

"Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
Currently: quantitative marketing/business development
Previously: management consulting, investment banking

Relinquis's picture

What message are you

RE
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 7:24pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

SirTradesaLot's picture

You might as well wipe your

O
 
Points)
 on 9/6/12 at 7:32pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

General Disarray's picture

I played final fantasy 11

IB
 
Points)
 on 9/7/12 at 10:07pm

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