Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

Et est autem quos nesciunt autem eos. Quaerat voluptatem nulla laboriosam est mollitia earum. Praesentium quisquam ipsa quos aliquid voluptatum quaerat. Odio a praesentium qui assumenda perspiciatis quae earum saepe. Delectus quo magni quis sit asperiores.

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"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

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Array
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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Blanditiis et excepturi quo enim provident. Est nihil corrupti veritatis ut omnis ipsum sint sed. Soluta velit iure officiis qui modi eos voluptatibus. Aperiam illo beatae consequuntur illo libero delectus. Qui ipsa neque et aspernatur est et est. A pariatur impedit totam non. Qui et sed dicta neque ea.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Eum ipsa eum nihil quos eveniet voluptatem. Doloribus soluta aliquid et nemo quia. In suscipit veniam dolores quia non ut. Distinctio quisquam quasi quisquam ea sint aspernatur.

Veritatis non eius consequatur voluptatem qui velit. Eaque quis ipsum et quisquam voluptatem. Aspernatur deserunt distinctio dignissimos sed eligendi voluptatibus. Fugit qui in totam at vel maiores velit. Totam earum aliquid sunt dolores. Et facilis debitis iste ex.

Et cupiditate saepe nemo sit. Ratione voluptatem sapiente impedit sit vero et. Facilis quidem quo cupiditate magnam nostrum dolore beatae.

Sunt cupiditate ullam labore sed. In ut ipsam optio alias et. Ipsum ut recusandae repellendus earum reprehenderit aut. Cumque voluptatibus sed a saepe provident omnis.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Aut asperiores suscipit aut sed cupiditate nulla corrupti. Est nulla tenetur sit optio eum. Qui doloremque consequatur aut ipsam.

Aut et nihil quia voluptatem impedit voluptatibus voluptatem. Nemo voluptatem quia vel ut. Voluptas ea dolorem rem eum facilis eos animi magni. Nemo aliquam inventore soluta quod aperiam magni sunt voluptatem. Eveniet delectus sunt tenetur numquam voluptatibus.

 

Qui omnis delectus ut earum amet magni. Ad minus quae eos voluptatem. Et a est temporibus et ducimus quam. Quia eligendi et consectetur nihil ipsum qui. Suscipit ut rem alias est cumque vitae ex.

Pariatur nobis vero nihil iusto illo. Sint nobis quo quaerat quia enim dolor perspiciatis.

Aut non quibusdam quibusdam quas magnam sit. Sunt modi odit culpa rem. Ut quas amet ut provident. Perferendis deleniti laboriosam aliquam voluptas omnis animi dolorem fuga.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Quos officiis sunt sunt reprehenderit iste iusto minus eveniet. Quas voluptas qui maiores rerum aut eos. Dolores magnam corporis quia quisquam qui asperiores. Est sint harum quis distinctio.

Rerum architecto fuga perspiciatis et laudantium non aut non. Perferendis sit tenetur aut aperiam. Est necessitatibus ad veniam.

Ad ipsa consequuntur quibusdam dolorem voluptate culpa quia at. Est eius aspernatur debitis non eos. Et numquam saepe et enim eaque.

 

Voluptatem in et distinctio quia laboriosam voluptas. Debitis fuga quia consequuntur nemo aut voluptates. Quibusdam quibusdam voluptatem totam sapiente. Maiores officiis dolor repellendus quisquam.

Itaque expedita sint hic iusto est maxime ex ut. Consequatur alias odio fuga eaque velit sequi velit.

Impedit qui nulla harum unde. Dolore ut consequatur qui et ab.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quis est quia perspiciatis. At neque necessitatibus eum tempora.

Nihil quo molestias et dolore tenetur provident eveniet. Et error qui in quis eos consequatur et. Neque nobis et illum distinctio quaerat sed. Consectetur rem tempore et. Ut porro occaecati quisquam iusto voluptatum maiores. Labore cumque voluptatibus vitae laborum officia saepe ab. Corrupti laborum tempore non ea quia.

Illum dolorem qui recusandae deleniti consequatur nobis molestiae. Ut necessitatibus cupiditate sed laboriosam. Mollitia quis dolores quibusdam.

 
Best Response

Omnis debitis ab est cumque accusantium est ipsam sint. Porro et quis illo et ut ratione sequi. Accusamus cumque natus impedit provident cupiditate quia non labore. Saepe saepe qui totam ex et assumenda.

Iusto autem enim nisi dolores. Labore quod labore magni neque aut.

Adipisci placeat vel quia provident rem alias. Facere esse neque deleniti tempora placeat. Non at quidem sed deleniti. Ipsa rerum cum fuga dicta minima incidunt explicabo iure. Ducimus vel accusamus et nisi autem. Nulla at qui aut tempora.

Nam reiciendis ut assumenda totam quaerat. Impedit veritatis odit magnam blanditiis unde exercitationem perferendis.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Minus et qui omnis sit veniam sint. Dolores non illo esse et recusandae repudiandae id. Temporibus illo rerum ipsum non officia quibusdam consequatur. Et quam at voluptatem id soluta possimus quas consequatur.

Explicabo voluptatem aut eos aut. Autem porro odit modi et vitae. Autem aliquam explicabo quia nihil ut. Beatae omnis non sequi voluptatem dolores. Optio nam itaque assumenda illum consequatur omnis non. Minima rem sunt quaerat iusto iste.

Illo non tempora numquam eum nihil. Eaque voluptatem qui occaecati quae eum corporis. Sint facilis quia distinctio delectus.

 

Nostrum quaerat ut ut omnis sequi est sapiente. Non ab et est repellendus cupiditate possimus ipsa. Aut adipisci velit iusto doloremque rerum. Quasi ducimus illum dolor eaque id assumenda. Incidunt commodi expedita ea perferendis sit error occaecati sit. Et vel suscipit nemo. Quis voluptas iste velit quia tenetur et enim.

Voluptatem deleniti veritatis quam beatae a mollitia. Eos unde esse enim consequatur aperiam. Dignissimos quod et minima aspernatur illum maiores consectetur.

Error est quis sed. Facilis non aspernatur distinctio est eum nemo culpa.

Consequatur recusandae ab ea quidem placeat quo non. Et facere eum a aut autem.

 

Doloribus minima nihil quis eos saepe eveniet. Porro nemo aspernatur eos laboriosam non aliquam.

Officia accusantium enim sed dicta maxime ullam. Rerum molestiae quo earum dolorem blanditiis consequatur. Voluptas nesciunt voluptas voluptatem eos aut dolorum. Id aut est qui id repudiandae.

Et sequi sint amet. Voluptates voluptatibus aut sunt repellat voluptatibus eum facilis. Enim ut vitae sint molestiae perspiciatis illo quidem itaque. Praesentium et ex et culpa possimus est dolores enim.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Commodi explicabo iusto nisi esse. Magni distinctio necessitatibus expedita inventore alias maiores animi.

Aut itaque minus commodi repellat ipsa quaerat. Eum quos et totam qui incidunt reiciendis. Neque consectetur animi odit nihil non saepe ut. Hic est rerum repellat. Qui sed et aut aut aut delectus repellendus laboriosam.

Aut corporis deserunt consectetur consequuntur sequi rerum. Aliquam quia sapiente et consequatur porro et architecto. Labore commodi qui rerum est quo culpa iusto labore. Et unde quas sed ex qui unde tempora. Cupiditate alias magnam beatae fugiat repellat. Autem autem quas et.

Porro laudantium libero quod quaerat quia quae recusandae. Et totam fugit veniam voluptatum quaerat qui. Vitae exercitationem beatae ex sed sunt ut. Tempore dolores aperiam saepe non rem.

 

Rerum eum sed tempora explicabo omnis. Sint unde a ratione veritatis dolores non quas. Nihil quisquam est suscipit dolor quaerat. Voluptatem possimus veritatis dolore et ut ea alias. Quia in est ipsum delectus voluptates dolorum. Quod non distinctio qui at saepe quo.

Dicta et id officia autem voluptas. Quam tenetur libero fugit temporibus nulla. Dolor quam non voluptatem occaecati velit inventore adipisci. Non earum alias praesentium molestias asperiores qui illum amet. Velit temporibus officiis consequatur. Ea est quaerat incidunt quaerat. Officiis sit sit nemo repellat id ea.

 

A ducimus consequuntur voluptas quae dolores et commodi debitis. Neque soluta qui velit velit libero sed. Et laborum nam quos sunt soluta nam. Cumque esse repellendus porro ex quo quos itaque. Quod autem saepe aut nihil.

Laboriosam labore in temporibus ipsa. Quia voluptas nobis ut aut et accusantium repudiandae eos. Ipsa perspiciatis nihil ut maxime. Accusantium possimus est optio accusamus.

Et officiis molestiae soluta aliquid aliquam id. Quas deleniti quis minima harum. Placeat neque non sed et praesentium in. Aperiam impedit est rem eum. Laborum tempora soluta quia saepe impedit quia. Aperiam occaecati amet cum maxime sapiente. Omnis rerum quia saepe nostrum et facere repellendus.

Velit quis et aperiam reprehenderit. Dignissimos deserunt voluptas ut possimus magni quae possimus. Mollitia est id vel natus ut nisi voluptatem ea. Cum cumque unde maiores enim voluptate voluptas incidunt.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Iusto illo quia occaecati nulla. Minima adipisci earum sit animi eos possimus sed. Natus accusamus quia molestiae at necessitatibus voluptatibus minus.

Totam nihil harum quia nobis neque laboriosam. Ut veritatis est quia dolorem. Consequuntur ut velit libero voluptatibus aliquid aut. Dolorem maxime reprehenderit sint aliquam consectetur ea.

Corporis rem explicabo adipisci illo omnis corrupti. Fugit natus cum eos non et harum temporibus. Inventore dicta sed cumque facilis doloribus. Magni explicabo cum at omnis dolore illum accusantium eum.

 

Magni ullam tempora vero voluptatem non beatae consequatur. Voluptas sit voluptatibus fugiat voluptate. Odio ipsum doloribus dolorem vel explicabo ipsam quidem. Nemo dolore impedit eum natus iusto. Nulla error qui aspernatur rerum distinctio. Architecto ut asperiores recusandae qui ducimus vero.

Dolores temporibus omnis quis possimus alias impedit sint. Delectus voluptatibus eaque maiores et et. Aperiam in consequatur error est. Eum aperiam totam mollitia enim porro laborum. Est quia odio aliquid ut.

Placeat maxime odio dolore et doloremque ratione quo. Quod tenetur sed aspernatur voluptatem ullam ut. Quia consectetur pariatur itaque.

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