2013 Rankings
With the understanding of a few things:
1. Many trading operations are extremely different, and that is important to factor in.
2. These are subjective opinions based off of user experience.
3. Fit is usually more important than "rank".
I think it's somewhat important that people have a better idea of where they stand, given it's about that time where people have to start making decisions.
I think we should do the best we can to objectively categorize companies based off of their performance and the quality of people they attract and retain. Does everybody else agree?
That being said, the categories: (all rankings tentative until further discussion...)
Sales & Trading: Equities (and Related)
Tier 1: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, BAML
Tier 2:
Tier 3:
Is GS still at the top here? I'm not knowledgeable in this area.
Sales & Trading: Commodities (and Related)
Tier 1: JPM, baml, Citi, Barclays
Tier 2: Credit Suisse, Wells Fargo
Tier 3:
Sales & Trading: Credit (and Related)
Tier 1: JPM, DB, Citi, BAML
Tier 2:
Tier 3:
Hearing JPM does a lot of volume here?
Sales & Trading: Currencies (and Related)
Tier 1: Citi, Barclays, DB, maybe JPM? not sure
Tier 2: UBS, JPM, GS
Tier 3:
Sales & Trading: Rates
Tier 1: DB, CS, Citi, MS, (maybe JPM again?)
Tier 2: GS, JPM, BNP, WF
Tier 3: RBC, Nomura, RBS
Sales & Trading: Emerging Markets
Tier 1:
Tier 2: Jeffries
Tier 3:
no clue
Sales & Trading: Securitized Products
Tier 1:
Tier 2:
Tier 3:
no clue
Market Making, HFT, Statistical Arbitrage ("Quantitative Prop Shops")
Tier 1: Getco, Jane Street
Tier 2: Susquehanna International Group, Chicago Trading Company, DRW Trading...?
Tier 3:
Getco, Jane Street, Virtu...? Anybody know?
"Discretionary Prop Shops"
Tier 1: First New York Securities (???), Trillium
Tier 2:
Tier 3:
Are there any still left? lol
Physical Trading: Energy
Tier 1: BP, Vitol, Trafigura, Koch, Glencore
Tier 2: Shell, Total, Phillips 66
Tier 3: others
Remember physical trading is very niche and some small shops dominate in certain areas. Again, focus is on UG/Grad students for right now.
Physical Trading: Metals
Tier 1: Glencore, Trafigura
Tier 2:
Tier 3:
Physical Trading: Agriculture
Tier 1: Cargill, Bunge, Louis Dreyfus
Tier 2:
Tier 3:
ADM, Cargill, Koch, Bunge, Louis Dreyfus...?







i approve this
i approve this
Would love to hear peoples
Would love to hear peoples thoughts/opinions on firms by product, have a decision to make myself soon
Strongly endorse this thread
Strongly endorse this thread being made. I have some knowledge of some firms but not comprehensive enough for a ranking.
For equities, i think GS, MS
For equities, i think GS, MS and BAML are up there in top 3. Speaking from experience on a buyside desk
Agree with all rankings so
Agree with all rankings so far. Especially the ones towards the very top.
I hate victims who respect their executioners
Follow BH & Co. on Twitter: @DumbLuckCapital
twitter.com/DumbLuckCapital
BlackHat: Agree with all
Agree with all rankings so far. Especially the ones towards the very top.
Blackhat or anyone else knowledgeable and experienced:
For FICC (particularly rates, fx, or HY/distressed credit), any insight into which firms are best positioned for now/ future
This is a great thread, I
This is a great thread, I hope we can fill it out a bit more.
Quoting some Greenwich
Quoting some Greenwich Associates reports (the most recent one says that DB is number 1 in global FI, and Barclays is number 2, and I think Citi and JPM round it out):
FOREIGN EXCHANGE 2011
Global ranking by market share
1. Deutsche Bank
2. Barclays Capital
3. UBS
4. Citi
5. JPMorgan
US ranking by market share
1. Barclays Capital
2. Deutsche Bank
3. Citi
4. UBS
UNITED STATES FIXED INCOME 2012
Overall market share
1. Deutsche Bank
2. Goldman Sachs
3. Citi, JPMorgan
5. Barclays Capital, Credit Suisse
US Rates market share
1. Deutsche Bank
2. Goldman Sachs
3. Credit Suisse, Barclays Capital, Citi, JPMorgan
US Credit market share
1. Bank of America Merrill Lynch
2. JPMorgan
3. Goldman Sachs
US Emerging Markets market share
1. Barclays Capital, JPMorgan
3. Citi
US Securitized market share
1. Credit Suisse
2. Bank of America Merrill Lynch
3. Barclays Capital
GLOBAL COMMODITIES OTC 2012
Global energy, corporates, OTC derivatives market penetration
1. Barclays Capital, JPMorgan (top in service quality), Goldman Sachs (top in service quality)
4. Morgan Stanley
5. Deutsche Bank, Citi
US energy, corporates, OTC derivatives market penetration
1. JPMorgan
2. Goldman Sachs, Barclays Capital
European energy, corporates, OTC derivatives market penetration
1. Barclays Capital
2. Morgan Stanley, BNP Paribas
Ditto, Asian Pacific
1. Morgan Stanley
2. JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs, Barclays Capital
US EQUITY DERIVATIVES 2012
Options and volatility market penetration
1. Morgan Stanley, Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs
4. Barclays, Credit Suisse
6. Deutsche Bank, Citi
Top quality: BAML, DB, GS, MS
ETF market penetration
1. Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse
4. Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Barclays
I keep referring back to this
I keep referring back to this thread
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/trading-rank...
When Lehman was #1.
Gelber group could fit in prop shop discretionary even though it isnt a pure discretionary shop to my knowledge.
+1 For thread
The energy is all wrong
The energy is all wrong
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
monty09: The energy is all
The energy is all wrong
physical or s&t? can you help clarify?
monty09: The energy is all
The energy is all wrong
Was gonna say..
US Securitized market share
1. Credit Suisse
2. Bank of America Merrill Lynch
3. Barclays Capital
This is wrong. I don't know if this is trying to rank trading, origination, or what have you. But it is wrong.
"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
I don't think BP should be
I don't think BP should be ahead of Shell as far as physical goes. Mercuria and Gunvor can also basically be put in the same breath as Glencore/Trafi. I don't know how you should rank the majors (BP and Shell inclusive) against the pure traders, it's a somewhat different ballgame, whether you're talking about compensation, culture, funding, etc..
Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
Hudson River Trading should
Hudson River Trading should be up there in the quantitative prop shops, as well as Tower Research. Also Spot Trading LLC in Chicago probably
"US Rates market share 1.
"US Rates market share
1. Deutsche Bank
2. Goldman Sachs
3. Credit Suisse, Barclays Capital, Citi, JPMorgan"
Mostly agree, but my personal rankings based on perceived flows and tight pricing
1. DB, CS
2. BAR (just cut their head of swaps, so might drop), Citi, MS
3. GS, JPM
4. BNP, WF (up and coming), BOA
5. RBC, Nomura, RBS
UBS was probably 2nd or 3rd tier, but now they basically don't exist
For fixed income and equity
If nobody hates you, you're doing something wrong
Physical Energy Trading: 1.
Dr. Shakalu: Physical Energy
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
monty09: Dr.
Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital
My WSO Blog
DChedge: "US Rates market
DChedge: "US Rates market
balladechina212: Hudson River
whalesquid123: DChedge: "US
mbavsmfin: balladechina212:
DChedge: whalesquid123: D
I don't think monty09 is
Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
that's the goal, and a reason
Could someone with knowledge
For a S&T fixed income summer
SV4lax: Could someone with
Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital
My WSO Blog
http://online.wsj.com/article
monty09: Dr.
FX Desk Rankings 1. Deutsche
marcellus_wallace: monty09:
Also, not sure about many
Can someone kindly list the
would it be worth adding any
On a global scale, glencore
I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.
Kurt Vonnegut
nyrangers11: For a S&T fixed
DChedge: nyrangers11: For a
DChedge: nyrangers11: For a
Tupac: marcellus_wallace:
marcellus_wallace: Maybe
After Lehman went under,
DChedge: nyrangers11: For a
nyrangers11: DChedge: nyr
I'll just say top tier, in no
Tupac: nyrangers11: DChed
What makes you say GS for
I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.
Kurt Vonnegut
CaR: What makes you say GS