6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...and More.

Enter your e-mail below to get our new Free Modeling Tutorials ($200+ Value).

< previous | next >

Are the exit opps really that different?
 

Cries's picture
HF
 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 1:00am
exit opps.jpg

I have 1.5yrs of experience at WF. I have finally received an offer from a decent BB (GS, MS, JPM, CS). However I have recently found success in landing a few (though not many) interviews for credit investing gigs (which is the ultimate goal).

I have no pedigree whatsoever.

Would the incremental benefit of committing an additional 1-2yrs to a relevant group at one of these banks be worth it? Will I actually have access to any opportunities that aren't available to me now?

In addition, I'm currently in a southeast financial center. Will recruiting for funds be any easier by moving to NYC?

Will my lack of pedigree still keep me locked out of fund recruiting channels regardless of which bank I work at?

I am considering passing on the opportunity and trying my luck with the few hedge funds that are willing to speak with me now. This is an incredibly difficult decision for me, and I have no idea what to do. Accepting this offer means I will have to drop out of the recruiting process for a $2B & a $500MM credit fund, and also wait a year to begin recruiting again.

Help!

wso_user's picture

Not sure about lateralling,

 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 3:49am

Not sure about lateralling, but the difference between good and bad groups is night and day. A BX M&A kid will get magnitude more top-tier than the average MS/JPM kid, who will in turn get magnitude more interviews than an average BB candidate. It's kind of a J-curve where you'll have kids from top groups get 10 megafund interviews and kids from ok groups (CS/BAML/LAZ) get literally 0 megafund interviews and struggle for a good middle-market. Yes, how articulate you are, deal experience, etc all matter but a good group is probably 50% of the equation

In reply to wso_user
wso_user's picture

.

 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 3:50am

.

Cries's picture

Thanks for the detail. Do

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 10:47am

Thanks for the detail. Do others share this sentiment as well? Does this even apply to me if I have no pedigree to speak of?

I believe I have no shot at a megafund based on my academic background alone, so I'm thinking in terms of mid-sized funds.

Thankfully this offer is related to what I want to do (credit investing), and its at a bank that is highly ranked for this particular space.

In reply to wso_user
ricottacheese's picture

wso_user: Not sure about

PE
(Orangutan, 291
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 7:36am
wso_user:

Not sure about lateralling, but the difference between good and bad groups is night and day. A BX M&A kid will get magnitude more top-tier than the average MS/JPM kid, who will in turn get magnitude more interviews than an average BB candidate. It's kind of a J-curve where you'll have kids from top groups get 10 megafund interviews and kids from ok groups (CS/BAML/LAZ) get literally 0 megafund interviews and struggle for a good middle-market. Yes, how articulate you are, deal experience, etc all matter but a good group is probably 50% of the equation

Completely agree, did my analyst stint at a top 2 BB (GS/MS) and while you'd think everyone from those firms get interviews like noone's business, the people in the top groups (GS TMT, GS FIG, MS M&A) got literally twice the number of them.

dest149's picture

But the thing about location

ST
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 10:24am

But the thing about location of your group never came into the equation. Is it a factor? I.E. - TMT in NYC or Chicago vs TMT in Miami or Denver?

In reply to wso_user
mrb87's picture

wso_user: Not sure about

PE
(Gorilla, 551
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 10:52am
wso_user:

Not sure about lateralling, but the difference between good and bad groups is night and day. A BX M&A kid will get magnitude more top-tier than the average MS/JPM kid, who will in turn get magnitude more interviews than an average BB candidate. It's kind of a J-curve where you'll have kids from top groups get 10 megafund interviews and kids from ok groups (CS/BAML/LAZ) get literally 0 megafund interviews and struggle for a good middle-market. Yes, how articulate you are, deal experience, etc all matter but a good group is probably 50% of the equation

And that is a J-curve how?

In reply to mrb87
dest149's picture

mrb87: wso_user: Not sure

ST
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 11:12am
mrb87:
wso_user:

Not sure about lateralling, but the difference between good and bad groups is night and day. A BX M&A kid will get magnitude more top-tier than the average MS/JPM kid, who will in turn get magnitude more interviews than an average BB candidate. It's kind of a J-curve where you'll have kids from top groups get 10 megafund interviews and kids from ok groups (CS/BAML/LAZ) get literally 0 megafund interviews and struggle for a good middle-market. Yes, how articulate you are, deal experience, etc all matter but a good group is probably 50% of the equation

And that is a J-curve how?

I think what he is trying to say is that it's a step curve lol.

Cries's picture

So where does your average

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 2:37pm

So where does your average WF/RBC/SunTrust group & average GS/MS/JPM/CS group sit on the aforementioned "j-shaped curve?" Is there actually a significant difference between these two tiers of banks in terms of recruiting opportunities?

AnalystMonkey2769's picture

so people that are going into

IB
(Gorilla, 614
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 2:49pm

so people that are going into top MMs are bascially fucked you are saying according to this thread if mid tier BB analysts are struggling....GREAT haha.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

triplectz's picture

If your goal is credit

IB
(Gorilla, 550
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 3:26pm

If your goal is credit investing and you have interviews with a $ 2bn credit investing fund, I certainly wouldn't drop out of that process yet. Feel like it'd be easier going from there to another fund (assuming you'd even want to switch) than going to another BB, restarting recruiting, targeting credit funds, etc. Can you delay signing with your lateral offer until you complete the process?

In reply to triplectz
Cries's picture

triplectz: If your goal is

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/15/12 at 9:57pm
triplectz:

If your goal is credit investing and you have interviews with a $ 2bn credit investing fund, I certainly wouldn't drop out of that process yet. Feel like it'd be easier going from there to another fund (assuming you'd even want to switch) than going to another BB, restarting recruiting, targeting credit funds, etc. Can you delay signing with your lateral offer until you complete the process?

Im going to try, but I doubt it. They seem to be looking for a quick commitment, given that I would start in early january.

The alternative is reneging, but Im not sure that that would go over well...(although its incredibly tempting).

My main problem is that the BB offer is in hand, but the chance of me landing the fund offers are slim, I think.

n1cktm's picture

OP, From the sound of it you

(Orangutan, 304
 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 11:26am

OP,

From the sound of it you are based out of Charlotte. I am graduating from Emory this spring and know a few people who have interned at WF Charlotte and have accepted FT as well as a few from STRH (from MDs all the way down to Analysts). Please take this with a grain of salt as this is just based on things I have heard...

First, your exit oops are not very good from STRH if you are looking at megafunds. I think most guys will be going to MM PE shops in the southeast or business school. I have one friend from STRH that was in HCIB and was able to get a IBD job with Goldman Sachs in London. So yes technically anything is possible if you know how to sell yourself (this guy was a networking guru). But he did mention that exit opps from STRH are not very strong, you will mostly be limited to ATL/SE, so for those guys the best chance is to actually lateral to a BB in NYC or go to a top MBA.

For WF Charlotte, similar to STRH but not quite as bad. WF is a much stronger bank but if your gunning for megafuds you will have a hard time competing with kids from top shops in NYC, no way around that. NYC PE/HF is definitely possible and people have done it but when you look at the middle 50% of WF Charlotte vs middle 50% of NYC BB the placement will be much better at the latter. If you are top bucket and have a strong network you might make some things happen for yourself, but its all about the odds. If you need to be at a top fund you would be better off trying to lateral to a top BB. If you just want the pay bump and better work-life balance at a mid-tier shop then I would just make the transition now.

In reply to ricottacheese
Banana Bread's picture

ricottacheese: wso_user: No

(Chimp, 3
 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 12:28pm
ricottacheese:
wso_user:

Not sure about lateralling, but the difference between good and bad groups is night and day. A BX M&A kid will get magnitude more top-tier than the average MS/JPM kid, who will in turn get magnitude more interviews than an average BB candidate. It's kind of a J-curve where you'll have kids from top groups get 10 megafund interviews and kids from ok groups (CS/BAML/LAZ) get literally 0 megafund interviews and struggle for a good middle-market. Yes, how articulate you are, deal experience, etc all matter but a good group is probably 50% of the equation

Completely agree, did my analyst stint at a top 2 BB (GS/MS) and while you'd think everyone from those firms get interviews like noone's business, the people in the top groups (GS TMT, GS FIG, MS M&A) got literally twice the number of them.

ricottacheese, how would you say the other groups in GS / MS perform in terms of getting interviews compared to JPM / CS / Lazard?

Cries's picture

Thanks for the responses thus

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 3:26pm

Thanks for the responses thus far.

If I jump to the BB, will I be able to start recruiting early without any recommendations from my current (they expect a 2yr commit) or past employers (burned bridges from jumping ship early; I've already informally accepted a 3rd year offer)?

Dunkin Donuts Banker's picture

At the end of the day, PE

IB
 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 3:57pm

At the end of the day, PE exit opps, like any other job interview, is about YOU. Certainly at a top bank you will have access to more headhunters and job posts because that's who they will target. But if you make an effort to reach out, network, talk to your senior guys who may help you, you can for sure receive interviews at credit/PE funds as you have. Going to a BB is not a solution to the problem- you still have to perform in those interviews to get those offers after your potential BB stint and now you're set back for another grueling two years while your peers have moved on. Are you not getting good exp currently?

In reply to Dunkin Donuts Banker
Cries's picture

Dunkin Donuts Banker: At the

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 4:15pm
Mark2010's picture

I can't believe this is even

 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 6:54pm
In reply to Dunkin Donuts Banker
wso_user's picture

Dunkin Donuts Banker: At the

 
Points)
 on 12/16/12 at 8:28pm
Cries's picture

Thanks to the above 2 for

HF
 
Points)
 on 12/17/12 at 10:08am
johnwayne7's picture

You have somewhat of a

 
Points)
 on 12/17/12 at 12:45pm
dayaaam's picture

Just wanted to comment since

 
Points)
 on 12/17/12 at 2:31pm
porkbellies's picture

I would take the BB offer, no

IB
(Orangutan, 295
 
Points)
 on 12/18/12 at 2:22pm
Cries's picture

For anyone who cares, I

HF
 
Points)
 on 1/8/13 at 2:38am
In reply to Cries
duffmt6's picture

Cries: For anyone who cares,

IB
(Neanderthal, 2,475
 
Points)
 on 1/8/13 at 8:45am

"Social cohesion and puritanical morality place roughly on my list of concerns between whether I'll pick up jock itch at the gym this week (not likely, since I don't go the gym) and whether it'll rain in Christchurch, New Zealand next Tuesday."
-Eddie

In reply to Cries
AnalystMonkey2769's picture

Cries: For anyone who cares,

IB
(Gorilla, 614
 
Points)
 on 1/8/13 at 1:38pm

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

In reply to AnalystMonkey2769
porkbellies's picture

AnalystMonkey2769: Cries: F

IB
(Orangutan, 295
 
Points)
 on 1/14/13 at 2:59pm
In reply to Cries
dayaaam's picture

Cries: For anyone who cares,

 
Points)
 on 1/17/13 at 8:50pm

6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...Straight to Your Inbox.

Confirm your name and e-mail below to get our best tips

Monkey Stats
Account information
We respect your Name and E-mail privacy. By joining you accept our terms of service.