B-School Q&A w/ Betsy Massar of Master Admissions
I'm Betsy Massar, founder of Master Admissions. I'm glad to be here on Wall Street Oasis back with kindred spirits. Right out of Harvard Business School I worked for Goldman Sachs and have spent most of my professional career in and around the financial industry. I worked on both the sell and buy sides (Barclays Global Investors, now BlackRock), and have worked on Wall Street, Asia, and San Francisco.
You might think I am partial to HBS, but I'm actually quite fond of Stanford Graduate School of Business, as a communications and resume coach and an editor of GSB professors' academic papers. I am also a writer for the Journal of PortfolioManagement. Back to MBA admissions, I'm a member of the Association of International Graduate Admissions Consultants, the industry group, and a bit of an ethical watchdog on all things MBA admissions.
For this Q&A thread, I'd like to focus on these two things:
- How you can improve your profile
- How to talk about leadership in your application.
In both cases, the answers may surprise you.
I look forward to reading your questions and learning about you.
If you keep it to just a paragraph or two, it's easier for everyone to read and for me to include your question in my response. No worries about follow up questions, please ask!
I will do my best to check in often and respond promptly.






Dear Betsy, Thank
Dear Betsy,
Thank you very much for taking the time to give out advice for free. I am sure myself and many other monkey on WSO are appreciative and grateful. I am very young (23 years old), and I know that it's too early to be thinking about business school. However, I would like to have an idea of where it would be possible for me to end up for an MBA program in the future. Also, I would appreciate any advice that you have on improving my profile or any suggestions on how to talk about leaderships experiences.
My stats are as follows:
Asian American Male, 23 years old, U.S. Citizen
gmat score: 730, 50/51 Quant and 40/51 Verbal
Undergrad: Fordham University, Cumulative GPA: 3.95/4:00, Major in Finance and Minor in Business Economics
Class rank: top 2%, Highest GPA in the undergrad finance major
Grad School: London Business School Masters in Management (2012-2013, haven't started yet)
Extracurriculars: Involved in Asia Club, Finance Club, and did a volunteer internship with Asia Society
After I start working full-time, I would definitely want to find time to work at an asian non-profit
Speak fluent English and Shanghai dialect, basic Mandarin, and basic Spanish
Post-LBS, I am probably going to begin a career in investment banking in either London or Singapore
My post MBA goals are PE/VC, and my target schools are HBS/Wharton/LBS/Columbia (the traditional "finance" schools)
I don't think that I would be a good fit for the midwestern Chicago culture or the techy culture of Stanford. If you have additional insights into other programs that are good for PE/VC or any advice in general, I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks!
@ShanghaiBanker: you'll
@ShanghaiBanker: you'll obviously likely be a competitive applicant even at HSW type schools, though in the end it will all come down to your work experience. Guys in the typical IBD/PE track tend to do pretty well everywhere.
Did you grow up in the States? Your low verbal score surprises me.
Yep, I grew up in the States.
Yep, I grew up in the States. The thing is I pushed all of my GMAT studying into 2 weeks to meet LBS deadlines. Did very minimal studying, which I know is really bad. Math was always the stronger section, and verbal was always weaker. Embarassing story, but I drank too many energy drinks before the exam and really had to use the bathroom during the verbal section with my current score as a result lol. If I have to re-take for a 20-30 point boost, I would definitely be open to it as well.
shanghaibanker123: Yep, I
Yep, I grew up in the States. The thing is I pushed all of my GMAT studying into 2 weeks to meet LBS deadlines. Did very minimal studying, which I know is really bad. Math was always the stronger section, and verbal was always weaker. Embarassing story, but I drank too many energy drinks before the exam and really had to use the bathroom during the verbal section with my current score as a result lol. If I have to re-take for a 20-30 point boost, I would definitely be open to it as well.
You're already looking far better than most applicants, I just thought your split was unusual. On the bright side, there's no need to worry about it at all for a while.
Hi Betsy, I'm graduating from
Hi Betsy,
I'm graduating from undergrad this week and was wondering, based on my stats, what I could do to improve my chances over the next few years. I don't want my life to revolve around going to b-school, but I would like to know if you have any tips for things I should look into on the side. I would like to stay in Finance (dream is to work as an Analyst for a hedge fund) preferably on the West coast.
My question:
Which schools will I be competitive for in 4 years and what could I do on the side to improve my odds at Stanford/Harvard?
My stats:
- Starting in Equity Research with an elite buyside firm (~$100 bil. AUM), would like to matriculate in 4 years
- 730 GMAT (48 Q, 42 V), just took it
- 3.65 GPA in Finance from state school (Magna Cum Laude and Beta Gamma Sigma)
- President of undergrad Finance club, Treasurer of Fraternity, several awards for leadership
- 5 undergrad internships - 1 in IB M&A, 1 in IB public finance
- Private Pilot (looking to start training aerobatics)
- Starting professional prep./leadership development non-profit for highschool students
I know it's a little early to be thinking about this, but I'd love to hear your opinion on what I could do to improve my application. Thanks in advance for your help!
"One man with courage makes a majority." — Andrew Jackson
eriginal: (looking to start
(looking to start training aerobatics)
that's awesome wish I had that as a hobby
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hi, Canadian, quant at a
hi,
Canadian, quant at a hedge fund (1b aum) in NYC for 2 years.
Computer science, 3.4 in the US
760 gmat, 50math/42
which school should i focus? which schools are a long shot?
Thanks
AndyLouis: eriginal: (looki
(looking to start training aerobatics)
that's awesome wish I had that as a hobby
Not yet! I'm just a pilot now, but looking into some classes that would get me ready for basic aerobatics. Flying for leisure is only so much fun, I need to up the ante. This video got me interested in the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqIRCihzPH0
"One man with courage makes a majority." — Andrew Jackson
shanghaibanker123: Dear
Dear Betsy,
Thank you very much for taking the time to give out advice for free. I am sure myself and many other monkey on WSO are appreciative and grateful. I am very young (23 years old), and I know that it's too early to be thinking about business school. However, I would like to have an idea of where it would be possible for me to end up for an MBA program in the future. Also, I would appreciate any advice that you have on improving my profile or any suggestions on how to talk about leaderships experiences.
,,,,
Speak fluent English and Shanghai dialect, basic Mandarin, and basic Spanish
Post-LBS, I am probably going to begin a career in investment banking in either London or Singapore
My post MBA goals are PE/VC, and my target schools are HBS/Wharton/LBS/Columbia (the traditional "finance" schools)
I don't think that I would be a good fit for the midwestern Chicago culture or the techy culture of Stanford. If you have additional insights into other programs that are good for PE/VC or any advice in general, I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks!
Hi Shanghai Banker,
Thanks for being the first to weigh in. I want to say that it's a real honor to be on this forum, and I certainly hope I can add some insight into the whole process. i look forward to getting to know some of you online and maybe even in person.
In your case, you already have the next year planned out for you by going to the LBS Masters in Management Programme, which is one of the premier post-undergraduate programs of its kind. Some might say that it's enough to get your MiM, and not even to bother with an MBA, but they are not mutually exclusive.
It's going to be a fantastic, eye-opening, learning experience, surrounding you with an international cohort of top students. You will learn from them about their own experiences and backgrounds -- and that's more than half of the benefit of being at LBS.
I know you are trying to plan things way out, but since my focus on this thread is really about what you can do right now, my suggestion is to relax and enjoy your position. I don't want to give you suggestions on which schools, because I think that will narrow, rather than expand your choices.
Think strategically: If you really want to go into PE or VC (bearing in mind that these industries may look very different after your receive your MBA), then spend time meeting people in both those industries. You can
Find out :
--What they like about their jobs
--What they wish they knew
--What kind of international experience should you aim for now
--What they do for fun
And whatever else you want to ask.
I also am glad to see that you want to work at an Asian non-profit. That would be amazing. Do it! And tell us all about what you learned. I lived in Asia for 10 years (Taiwan, Singapore, HK, and even a bit in Vietnam) -- and boy do I miss it. Especially the food!
Let us know how it goes,
Best regards,
Betsy
Betsy Massar
Check out my B-School Q&A Forum on WSO
Good posts get silver bananas!
Founder of MasterAdmissions.com
eriginal: Hi Betsy, I'm
Hi Betsy,
I'm graduating from undergrad this week and was wondering, based on my stats, what I could do to improve my chances over the next few years. I don't want my life to revolve around going to b-school, but I would like to know if you have any tips for things I should look into on the side. I would like to stay in Finance (dream is to work as an Analyst for a hedge fund) preferably on the West coast.
My question:
Which schools will I be competitive for in 4 years and what could I do on the side to improve my odds at Stanford/Harvard?
My stats:
- Starting in Equity Research with an elite buyside firm (~$100 bil. AUM), would like to matriculate in 4 years
- 730 GMAT (48 Q, 42 V), just took it
- 3.65 GPA in Finance from state school (Magna Cum Laude and Beta Gamma Sigma)
- President of undergrad Finance club, Treasurer of Fraternity, several awards for leadership
- 5 undergrad internships - 1 in IB M&A, 1 in IB public finance
- Private Pilot (looking to start training aerobatics)
- Starting professional prep./leadership development non-profit for highschool students
I know it's a little early to be thinking about this, but I'd love to hear your opinion on what I could do to improve my application. Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi Eriginal,
Andy is right, that's one awesome hobby! Also, congratulations on graduating this week. It looks like you've done quite a bit in your 4 years. And also congratulations for having taken the GMAT. I'd like to evangelize your strategy -- taking the GMAT and getting it out of the way so you can concentrate on the rest, that is *your life*!
As I read through your email, it looks to me like you want to work for Pimco or a division of Blackrock, right? If so, I actually wonder if you are already on your way there by having landed such a great post-undergraduate job.
In reality, the best thing you can do now is to concentrate on performing well at that job. Admissions officers care about career progression, but it's too early for me to advise you on what you can do because you haven't even started.
So I would have to say, keep doing what you are doing, and if you want to start studying for your CFA, that can't hurt either.
Having said that, since this is my first day, I am going to spell out a bit of what I've been thinking about lately, especially as I have been working with some undergraduate groups lately. Here's the deal -- the top business schools are looking for 3 things
1. Intellectual ability
2. Career progression
3. Global awareness
In your case, you have pretty much proven you have the smarts and are on your way to career progression. You also seem like in interesting person who has made the most of his time on this earth so far. My bet is that you will do the same for the next few years.
As you look forward, see if you can incorporate an international angle into your career and your life. Tomorrow's leaders will be global leaders. The top schools are 33% or more filled with international students. You cannot even qualify for a school like INSEAD unless you are bilingual.
Even if you've never had the chance to live or work abroad, I guarantee you will be working on a cross-cultural project within the next 5 years. If you can bring some experience with and sensitivity to other cultures, you will add more to your future class and work teams.
I wrote a blog post on the three things admissions officers are looking for : here.
Good luckl
Betsy Massar
Check out my B-School Q&A Forum on WSO
Good posts get silver bananas!
Founder of MasterAdmissions.com
lil_barac: hi, Canadian,
hi,
Canadian, quant at a hedge fund (1b aum) in NYC for 2 years.
Computer science, 3.4 in the US
760 gmat, 50math/42
which school should i focus? which schools are a long shot?
Thanks
Hi Lil Barac
I have to be honest. You should focus on the schools which interest you the most. Business school admissions and the business schools themselves are holistic. That is, they look for the right fit for the right person. It's really your job to do your research to figure out what schools appeal. The schools spend a lot of time and money on marketing and outreach. Take advantage.
The numbers themselves are merely goalposts. If your stats are within the standard deviation of what the school publishes on its class profile page, then perhaps you are in the running. from what I can tell, your numbers look fine. But I cannot tell you any more than that.
Admissions are much more art than science. If you have good numbers, then you have passed one hurdle. And . But when considering the top 15 schools that show up regularly in the top 10, that's only a small piece of it. The rest is all about your leadership: character, goals, teamwork, and vision.
I suggest you attend a few outreach sessions that all the business schools put on in New York and talk to current students and recent grads. That will be some of the best use of your time over the next few years as you embark on the application process. It's worth it.
Best to you,
Betsy
Betsy Massar
Check out my B-School Q&A Forum on WSO
Good posts get silver bananas!
Founder of MasterAdmissions.com
Betsy
Dear Betsy,
Thank you very much for taking the time to give out advice for free. I am sure myself and many other monkey on WSO are appreciative and grateful. I am very young (23 years old), and I know that it's too early to be thinking about business school. However, I would like to have an idea of where it would be possible for me to end up for an MBA program in the future. Also, I would appreciate any advice that you have on improving my profile or any suggestions on how to talk about leaderships experiences.
,,,,
Speak fluent English and Shanghai dialect, basic Mandarin, and basic Spanish
Post-LBS, I am probably going to begin a career in investment banking in either London or Singapore
My post MBA goals are PE/VC, and my target schools are HBS/Wharton/LBS/Columbia (the traditional "finance" schools)
I don't think that I would be a good fit for the midwestern Chicago culture or the techy culture of Stanford. If you have additional insights into other programs that are good for PE/VC or any advice in general, I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks!
Hi Shanghai Banker,
Thanks for being the first to weigh in. I want to say that it's a real honor to be on this forum, and I certainly hope I can add some insight into the whole process. i look forward to getting to know some of you online and maybe even in person.
In your case, you already have the next year planned out for you by going to the LBS Masters in Management Programme, which is one of the premier post-undergraduate programs of its kind. Some might say that it's enough to get your MiM, and not even to bother with an MBA, but they are not mutually exclusive.
It's going to be a fantastic, eye-opening, learning experience, surrounding you with an international cohort of top students. You will learn from them about their own experiences and backgrounds -- and that's more than half of the benefit of being at LBS.
I know you are trying to plan things way out, but since my focus on this thread is really about what you can do right now, my suggestion is to relax and enjoy your position. I don't want to give you suggestions on which schools, because I think that will narrow, rather than expand your choices.
Think strategically: If you really want to go into PE or VC (bearing in mind that these industries may look very different after your receive your MBA), then spend time meeting people in both those industries. You can
Find out :
--What they like about their jobs
--What they wish they knew
--What kind of international experience should you aim for now
--What they do for fun
And whatever else you want to ask.
I also am glad to see that you want to work at an Asian non-profit. That would be amazing. Do it! And tell us all about what you learned. I lived in Asia for 10 years (Taiwan, Singapore, HK, and even a bit in Vietnam) -- and boy do I miss it. Especially the food!
Let us know how it goes,
Best regards,
Betsy
Hi Betsy,
Thank you for the excellent advice! Your experience in Asia sounds amazing, and I definitely want to spend some time in either/both HK sometime in the future. The diversity of the student body and the world-class curriculum were what attracted me to LBS, and I am definitely extremely excited to meet my new classmates as well as live in London. Your list of questions is very helpful and I will definitely keep them in mind as I go through the grad program and my first job. Once I get involved with an asian non-profit, I will definitely come back to post about my experience here. Asian food is the best, and every time I go to Shanghai, I seem to come back a few pounds heavier. I definitely hope to stay in touch and hear more about your experiences in Asia.
Cheers,
Shanghaibanker
Have some dumplings for me!
[quote=shanghaibanker123][quote=Betsy Massar]
Hi Betsy,
Thank you for the excellent advice! Your experience in Asia sounds amazing, and I definitely want to spend some time in either/both HK sometime in the future. The diversity of the student body and the world-class curriculum were what attracted me to LBS, and I am definitely extremely excited to meet my new classmates as well as live in London. Your list of questions is very helpful and I will definitely keep them in mind as I go through the grad program and my first job. Once I get involved with an asian non-profit, I will definitely come back to post about my experience here. Asian food is the best, and every time I go to Shanghai, I seem to come back a few pounds heavier. I definitely hope to stay in touch and hear more about your experiences in Asia.
Cheers,
Shanghaibanker
Have some dumplings for me!
Betsy Massar
Check out my B-School Q&A Forum on WSO
Good posts get silver bananas!
Founder of MasterAdmissions.com
Hello Betsy: I think I have a
Hello Betsy:
I think I have a competitive profile for the top schools but things didn't go well when I applied last time. I need to know how to improve my application (through messaging, as realistically, there isn't a ton I can do between now and the fall)
My stats:
Currently ~2 years at top consulting firm, top of class and will be promoted this summer (will have ~3 years at matriculation)
3.8 in Econ from a top LAC (think Vassar/Wesleyan/Middlebury); the only person to make the jump from my school directly to my company
750+ GMAT, but buoyed by a very strong verbal score (thanks, liberal arts college!)
Varsity captain and President of student business club in college, but weak organized extracurriculars after college
Long term, I want to move up the ranks at a sports-focused consumer or retail firm, and eventually become COO. Short term, I'll stay in consulting (I'm sponsored).
I probably didn't do a great job of stating my long-term goals last time (knew I wanted something sports-related and retail-related), I'm on the younger side, and a white male consultant, and I don't have "save the world" type goals or experience.
I do have strong experience from a premier firm, strong stats, interesting casework (a mix of blue-chips, quirky industries and highly public projects), realistic goals (consumer/retail/sports are my current focus at work/personally), and should have international experience by the time I apply (would have gone before, but got offered projects that were too cool domestically to turn down).
I couldn't get any interest from HBS or Stanford before, and I wonder whether that's even the right place to look. Everyone I work with jush pushes their alma mater as the best place to go, but I can't find too many objective parties who understand me, my goals, and business schools...
Thanks,
petergibbons
Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
petergibbons: Hello Betsy: I
Hello Betsy:
I think I have a competitive profile for the top schools but things didn't go well when I applied last time. I need to know how to improve my application (through messaging, as realistically, there isn't a ton I can do between now and the fall)
My stats:
Currently ~2 years at top consulting firm, top of class and will be promoted this summer (will have ~3 years at matriculation)
3.8 in Econ from a top LAC (think Vassar/Wesleyan/Middlebury); the only person to make the jump from my school directly to my company
750+ GMAT, but buoyed by a very strong verbal score (thanks, liberal arts college!)
Varsity captain and President of student business club in college, but weak organized extracurriculars after college
Long term, I want to move up the ranks at a sports-focused consumer or retail firm, and eventually become COO. Short term, I'll stay in consulting (I'm sponsored).
I probably didn't do a great job of stating my long-term goals last time (knew I wanted something sports-related and retail-related), I'm on the younger side, and a white male consultant, and I don't have "save the world" type goals or experience.
I do have strong experience from a premier firm, strong stats, interesting casework (a mix of blue-chips, quirky industries and highly public projects), realistic goals (consumer/retail/sports are my current focus at work/personally), and should have international experience by the time I apply (would have gone before, but got offered projects that were too cool domestically to turn down).
I couldn't get any interest from HBS or Stanford before, and I wonder whether that's even the right place to look. Everyone I work with jush pushes their alma mater as the best place to go, but I can't find too many objective parties who understand me, my goals, and business schools...
Thanks,
petergibbons
First, I have to say I love your tagline! Starwood points is hilarious. I hope you show that kind of spontaneity in your new applications. Second, I have to admit I am a sucker for liberal arts college types, as I did go to Vassar. I actually think the liberal arts combo with a quantitative job shows a tendency toward well-roundedness. So that's a big positive.
My guess, and this is a guess, is that you didn't have enough career progression, and here's what you can do now: keep working and try to get as much international exposure as you can. Global awareness is huge at business schools, and even if you cannot work abroad between now and then, see if you can jump on a cross-cultural team.
I actually think you have all sorts of potential, and a reapplication based more diverse and responsible work experience is actually the easiest argument you can make for yourself.
There's also a possibility that you had boring essays and non-differentiating recommendations, or just didn't show enough self-awareness. I personally don't think the white male from a premier consulting firm is insurmountable. It's just a matter of showing more of who you really are and -- I hate to say this here on a website full of Wall Streeters, -- you need to show some vulnerability.
Having said all that, if you just applied to Harvard and Stanford, the probabilities are just plain too low. It isn't clear if that's what you did, so forgive me if I am making assumptions. You want to be a good risk manager next time and apply to about five or six schools. I personally believe there are 15 schools in the top 10 (just compare the rankings of US News and BusinessWeek, not to mention the weird Economist and FT rankings) so you have actually plenty of choices.
Please feel free to PM me if you want to have a longer conversation about your own situation, I'd be delighted to hear more about you and your sporty goals.
Go to sleep now,
Betsy
Betsy Massar
Check out my B-School Q&A Forum on WSO
Good posts get silver bananas!
Founder of MasterAdmissions.com
Hi Betsy, Many thanks for
Hi Elmir, In answer to your
Betsy Massar
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lol she didnt even read what
TW Pepper: lol she didnt even
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Thanks a lot for your
Betsy Massar: Hi Lil Barac I
Sorry if this format is a
Betsy Massar
Check out my B-School Q&A Forum on WSO
Good posts get silver bananas!
Founder of MasterAdmissions.com
He said 15 years chess
Oh my, thank you for pointing
Betsy Massar
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Yes,now everything is the way
marcus2012: Yes,now
Betsy Massar
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@Phantombanker wrote a very
Betsy Massar
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I'm wondering if you think I
nerdspeak: I'm wondering if
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Betsy
Hi Betsy, This is a great
TraderDaily: Hi Betsy, This
Betsy Massar
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Hey Betsy. Great thread so
Betsy, One topic I've seen a
obscenity: Betsy, One topic
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ElSmokeoMucho: Hey Betsy.
Betsy Massar
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Hi all, I truly apologize if
Betsy Massar
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Betsy Massar: Hi all, I truly
Betsy Massar
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I just wanted to inquire
Hi AQM, Thanks for the
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Question : What is maximum
re your specific question: I
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Betsy Massar: re your
Betsy Massar: re your
Hi Betsy, I hope you can shed
energyanalyst: Thanks for
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oops, trying to remove a
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jwalsh16: Hi Betsy, I hope
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Betsy Massar: jwalsh16: Hi
how did it break down? and
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