Best way to quit AND get my bonus?
Looking for some opinions on my situation.
I am currently in Asset Management but recently accepted an offer from another firm to go into investment banking. My bonus at my current firm will be paid out in December and I don't start my new job until January, so common sense says not to say anything about leaving until my bonus is sitting in my checking account.
However, I work in a very small team and have a great relationship with my MD. If I leave without much warning they will be screwed big time, so I feel like I should give them a heads up that I will be leaving at the end of the year to give them more time to plan for it. My MD doesn't strike me as the type that will feel it is his duty or obligation to tell the higher ups I am leaving, but who really knows?
Also, I really want to maintain a good relationship with him because he is well-connected in the sector I will be focusing on and I'd like to be able to call him up for info/news flow as I continue in my career.
What should I do? I initially planned to give him a heads up in early November, but now I am starting to think it is crazy to risk losing a substantial cash bonus. Have you ever heard of people giving a heads up like this to a small group and it not getting out?
Dude, don't be an idiot and keep your mouth shut. If you work in banking, you will be done on the spot once you tell him you quit and you can kiss your bonus goodbye.
First sentence of the entire post:
I am currently in asset management but recently accepted an offer from another firm to go into investment banking.
So no, I don't work in banking right now. I realize the standard protocol in IB is for you to be escorted out immediately when the higher ups find out, but that is not what I am proposing.
"Common sense says..." Just wait, you really only need to give 2 weeks. Is leaving in November really worth losing your bonus? I say no, just stick it out until then.
Tough call. Do you receive the bonus at least 2 weeks before you plan to leave (new firm starting date)?
I get bonused out in mid-December, and would plan to give an official two week notice at that point, but I would only work the first week because I am going home for Christmas the second week.
I've heard/believe its always good to give 2 weeks before you leave; to be courteous. So technically that's 2 weeks. I would also think about how much your bonus is compared to how badly you want to maintain a close relationship with group. Maybe offer to work some of the days during that Christmas week you are off. All in all, I'm leaning towards taking the bonus, not as much of a dick move as you'd think.
You've worked the past year and are being assessed/rewarded for the past year's performance not future. You could think of it like that to make your self feel better.
Do you want to do IB then MBA then PE? Is that your route?
P.S. You're getting a whole week for Christmas?
Your boss will understand. He won't be happy about the fact that you are leaving but don't say anything until the bonus hits and then tell him as soon as you can to give him your two weeks. Make sure that if you are interested in maintaining the relationship that you do everything you can to make a transition as smooth as possible (i.e. make sure all the stuff you need to have done is done, be well organized, make sure they don't have to look all over for files/reports etc.) but don't feel bad about waiting till your money hits. You worked a full year to get that bonus and it isn't smart or fair to you to leave that money on the table. Your boss would do the same thing so he will have to respect your decision. Be straight up with him when you give him your notice, let him know that it was a privilege to work with him and the group but that you have to do what's best for your career and this is a great opportunity for you. He'll get it... and if for some reason he does try to lay a guilt trip on you or make you feel guilty, just understand that you aren't doing anything thousands of guys do every year. Be firm and keep your eyes on the next opportunity.
Wait for the bonus to clear your account then let them know. That will most likely be your last day even if you say its "two weeks"
Yeah - you need to wait lol.
The most popular day of the year is the day the bonus hits your bank account. Don't quit until the money is in the account. Everyone will understand. This is how things work.
Yeah I get what you're saying, but again I am not working on a large investment banking team where someone else will just pick up the slack. I am on an investment management team that consists of only three guys, so it is going to be a HUGE pickup in workload for the one other junior on the team.
Part of me feels like I owe them a heads up so they have enough time to work back channels to see if someone would be interested to slot in my spot, learn my models/companies, hire an intern, etc. They also fired someone to hire me so I am feeling extra guilty.
quit after you get your bonus. don't tell them you're leaving for another job, but say that the experience isn't what you expected/ looking for something different. thank them for everything, and be as vague as to what you will be doing next.
I don't see why this would be necessary. Again, I am leaving a very small group and want to remain in contact with my MD because he knows everyone in the sector I will be focusing on. I am definitely planning on telling him where I am going so I can call him up every now and then and see what he's hearing on ABC sector or XYZ company.
you are more easily replaceable than you think op...shut your mouth, get bonus, open mouth, don't be a dick
To be clear, are we talking a potential $5,000 bonus or a $65,000 bonus.
SB for the simple yet brilliant question.
you have to do what you have to do, DO NOT tell them before the bonus clears. You can however spend some time before then organizing your documents on a shared drive, annotating your models etc to make it easier. Just dont let people catch on to that.
This is finance dude, do not feel sorry for anyone no would feel sorry for you if it was a down year and that bonus would be near zero. They need to pickup huge slack? Guess what that's how it works, but now the other 2 get to share a majority of your bonus next year, since the new guy will not start right away and be bonus'd for 12 months.
Seriously everyone does the way explained and really no you have no reason to feel sorry for anyone. You do not owe anyone anything.
What kind of bonus are we talking here?
Chiming in with consensus. You have already done the hard work, so you should be entitled to your bonus.
It is generally accepted that in finance, people will move around...a lot. Your MD would have seen this countless times so he shouldn't take this personally (some do, though doesn't make you any more guilty).
Guys, it is a substantial bonus. I would not be worried if we were talking about $5000.
And yeah I totally agree that this happens constantly in finance, but this is a small team (much smaller than an average investment banking team) and he actually fired someone to bring me on. I just feel like this is a unique situation.
Has anyone heard of someone giving an MD a heads up before quitting and it working out?
What's a substantial Bonus?
I'm sure he fired someone because they sucked, not because you are so great.
Haha, how in the world would you be in a position to even speculate on this? You literally know nothing about my background.
My God, 95% of the posters on this board are worthless. I have no idea why I even come here anymore.
You feel like it's a unique situation, but it's not. If you ask a question and don't want to listen to the responses that people give, then that's your prerogative.
I would ask: are you just looking for reassurance and you're going to tell your boss you are going to quit anyway? What's the point?
You can't keep asking the same question and expect to get a different response. Even if someone comes back and says 'yeah, I saw it work out for one guy who notified early', there will still be at least 100x cases for the opposite to be true.
Fair point. My response:
Yes, I think I am partially wanting to get some reassurance. Good catch. I think that is only natural though.
I wonder how many people that have replied in this thread are either college kids or IB analysts, in which case their responses are almost worthless given their lack of experience.
I don't feel I am continuing to ask the same question. I am actually just replying to questions others ask, and then adding additional dialogue. I apologize if replying to my own thread bothers you.
Of course there will be 100x more cases of someone quitting without giving a heads up. That is the standard in the industry and I was well aware of that before even posting the thread. But that doesn't mean my situation can't be different, and I would be curious to hear about situations where someone gave a heads up and it worked out perfectly.
I have had people quit on my team with somewhat similar circumstances who I still speak with and am friendly with today. Nobody is going to take it personally, unless they are a douche to begin with. Do not throw your bonus away.
We had a policy at my old firm that was, if someone quits, they can't "unquit". Meaning, if you tell them you are going to quit, you have effectively quit and are not entitled to any bonus. Some managers may not comply with that rule fully, but it is not worth the risk. They could try to counter offer you, but that seems unlikely, given the reasons you want to leave.
Alright, since you want someone who has been in these sorts of situations as opposed to "college kids or IB analysts. I have to echo SirTradesaLot, this is not a unique situation, not even remotely close. At a small firm where you have a good relationship with a senior manager, you are still a junior employee. This MD will help you out while you are at the firm, but there is zero advantage for him to look out for you over the interests of the firm. If you need to be replaced, or it will hurt the firm to pay you that bonus, the MD will tell someone.
Now, there are firms who will still pay you out the entire bonus with you leaving, there are firms that will still give you a bonus, and there are firms that will give you your walking papers. You will have to ask yourself if you are willing to risk the less favorable outcomes to give a little extra notice. If you can still give standard notice (2 weeks), and make sure that all of your work is transitioned appropriately, then you are in the green and don't worry. I have watched firms with under ten employees only use a week of that notice to get everything transitioned and then tell the employee, "that's good enough."
At junior levels, we often overestimate how important we are and think the firm will be "screwed" when we leave. Regardless of what models you know, what your client book is, or other arcane knowledge, you can be replaced or the firm can operate differently for a little while (I've seen firms lose entire coverage groups and continue the deals they were working on).
In summary, get your bonus, then give notice. Your boss will understand. If you for some reason ignore this advice, there is a good chance of a reduced or no bonus. Keeping up a good relationship with your boss is important and you will not have burned a bridge with 2 weeks notice.
I haven't heard of a situation where someone gave a heads up for longer than 2 weeks, besides 2nd year IB analysts who were in 2-year programs. However, this is how I've thought about it - when things are tough and they're making firing decisions, I've rarely seen companies giving a heads up.
I know exactly how you feel, as I had formed really close relationships with certain groups in my firm as well. However, don't feel bad about waiting for your bonus, then notifying - that's how it works everywhere, especially in finance. It's not worth losing a bonus or getting a lower bonus because they now know you're out the door.
As an FYI, I am neither a college kid nor an IB analyst, but I've been both.
When is the earliest time a 1st year should quit without hurting the bonus (Originally Posted: 05/27/2007)
Got a HF offer, can start whenever and so I can't wait to quit.
Technically review is over, but HR has not finalized the bonus number. Should I wait till the bonus hits my bank account, when they gave me the bonus number, or even earlier?
Any of you have experience quitting after 1 year in a BB ibanking firm, or know stories of other quitting after 1 year?
quit on payday - check your account first thing and then hand in your letter.
"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"
Wait until it hits your account.
You won't need to give two weeks, because you will get walked out the door the same morning you give notice.
Agreed. You'll be walked out shortly after resigning, so be prepared for an abrupt exit. I personally know two analysts who resigned after completing their review with HR and got screwed on their bonus. If I were you I wouldn't speak another word about the HF position until you notify your MD on pay day.
Everyone above is right. Although technically you might be able to leave at the end of the month of whenever bonus communication is. Just to be safe, I would go with everyone's suggestion above.
Yeah, most important thing is just to wait until it is in your account.
Definitely wait until you get the money. You don't want them to get pissed and fuck you at the last second. Wait until they can't, then fuck them.
Please answer the following questions, but don't mention your name:
Thank you, Primate1
Can you elaborate on the stock picking track record a lil' bit? I know someone else doing HF interviews who said that his lack of personal investing is giving him a hard time with interviews.
Interned at a HF before and picked some good stocks. No personal investing experience though due to long hours and compliance complication.
It is probably harder with no personal investing experience, but some HF just want to know how you think about businesses (if it's long/short equities).
I have some HF interviews that did not ask me about personal investing experience, but they do want to know if you have a view on certain industry/company... so you do need to be ready to have a few stock picks.
Regarding Primate1's Q4, 1st year analyst can land HF/PE jobs through headhunters too.
Fully agree with SirTrades... you have all the info you need now and you know what you need to do. Now all you need to do is do it.
quitting job - can i still get my announced bonus? (Originally Posted: 03/24/2010)
Hey everyone! Wondering whether anyone knows/has experience with the following: I am about to give a resignation letter to my employer (investment bank) and move to another bank. I got my bonus announced (in writing) and it is supposed to be paid within a month. If I announce my resignation this week (I don't have the option to wait till the end of the month) and bonus payments are supposed to happen within a month, am I entitled to receive anything? (I have a letter saying that a certain amount will be paid in a months time). However I am not going to be working for my current employer at the end of the month already. Does anyone have any kind of similar experience/knows how I should proceed with this? Would greatly appreciate any feedback.
This is going to depend on your bank, but if you already have the bonus in writing, I think you have a good shot at getting paid. I mean...the bonus isn't a 'sign-on' for committing to a contract, right? It's your reward for a job well done from last year.
That said, the firm only pays bonuses to retain talent. If they know you are leaving, why pay you? Once it's in writing, though, I think it might be a binding contract. If I wrote up a contract that said, "I am going to pay you 100k USD in the next month," and I sign it, I am pretty sure I would have to pay unless there are stipulations to the contract.
Is your bonus offer signed? Is it dated? Are there any quid-pro-quos? Specifically, does it mention anything about you quitting before the bonus is paid?
I think you should get the money, but you're going to want to leave on good terms with your boss. If the firm feels like fucking you, they will, so don't tell your boss to suck your cock on the way out the door.
What does your contract say?
I've heard of contracts that will only pay the bonus if you're employed by the bank on the date of payment, i.e. the day the transfer into your account is supposed to take place.
If you can, wait a while.
Could you talk to your prospective employer (I'm guessing by now you probably already tried this, but it might be worth another shot). Generally people wait until the bonus has hit their bank accounts before quitting... And banks know the drill too. So I'm sure your new group will understand if you want to wait it out a bit.
Interesting question. I have heard banks 'buy-out' a candidates bonus, but only at senior management levels. I would be interested to see other experiences of people.
From experience, depending on the bank, they may or may not payout the bonus if you leave early... even if its in writing. Bonuses are discretionary and, if you leave before it hits the old bank account, banks are not obligated to follow through. This practice varies by bank and by state.
If you're really concerned about losing out on the bonus, contact an employment attorney... but, double-check with the new bank first to see if you can defer your start date by a week or two.
EVERY BULGE BRACKET BANK WILL REQUIRE YOU TO BE EMPLOYED ON THE DATE OF BONUS PAYMENT
which is 2-4 weeks from announce. When I was analyst i got announced 6/30 to be paid on or before 7/30
Also what's your notice period? most banks will require 1 month garden leave ...
if no garden leave - then just take a 2 week vacation
Depends on the firm's policy... My firm has a policy written specifically for this that says you have to be employed at the time the bonus is paid in order to receive it.. Aka no quitting after bonus reviews in Jan before the bonus is paid out in Feb.
My contract also stated that you need to be fully employed on the date of payment. (i.e. not on garden leave or notice period either)
Check your bonus letter. Mine explicitly stated I need to be employed on the payment date.
And regardless of whatever wording your contract or bonus letter have, just wait till the money is in the bank. Your future employer will understand if you need more time before joining, but they're certainly not going to reimburse your bonus if you mess this up yourself.
everything is discretionary no matter what your contract says...dont even bother checking your contract. what are yo going to do if they dont pay it, go get a lawyer and sue? Just wait till it hits your account...the only time i did this I even immediately transfered the money out of the account so they couldnt try to pull back the wire but im paranoid about this stuff. But anything that has the word @bonus@ in it is just that...100% discretionary, always there is nothing obligatory even if they have indicated in writing that the amount to they are going to pay you is a specific number.
Don't leave until it is paid, regardless of what your bonus contract says. The only way you can leave and get paid is if your employment contract says that the bank is liable to pay any and all compensation during your employment contract unless you violate clauses in said contract.
Wait until it hits the account. As someone said before, we have a tendency to believe that "this time is different", or that "they will be doomed without my help", but reality is that this industry has a compensation premium for a reason: it attracts the best athletes, and life will go on just fine for them. I've seen stuff like that happen at least 20 times in my immediate professional vicinity: co-workers, friends, classmates... and for all of them, holding the information has always (or would have) been the optimal strategy, ex-post. Yeah, OK, people might get pissed in the short term, but no long term bridges will be burned if you do what is, in the end, only economically rational.
Quitting around bonus time (Originally Posted: 07/20/2010)
I'm finishing up my second year as an analyst at a MM firm and am going to work elsewhere in finance. We receive numbers on 7/22 and get paid on 7/30 or 7/31 depending on if the deposit clears on Friday (it usually does for our paychecks). Unfortunately, the new firm is understaffed and needs me to start ASAP (8/2), so I don't have a cushion between the pay date and my start date.
When should I tell my bosses? As far as I know, it will be a complete surprise to them. I see myself having a few options:
Tell them this Thursday or Friday after receiving my number. The risk is that they somehow reduce my number or, worse yet, find a reason to lay me off without paying a bonus. Does this ever happen? Multiple people seem to think that they won't let an analyst go just to get out of paying them, but it's a lot easier to think that way when you're not the one who's quitting. The upside in this option is that I give them a week to transfer my projects to other analysts and associates, so they're less likely to see my departure as "screwing them".
Hope that the check clears next Friday instead of next Saturday and tell them on Friday. The risk is that I burn bridges by not giving them any time to transfer me off projects. This is especially a risk because I'm the primary junior person on a deal that we're expecting to launch in the next week or so. The upside in this option is they don't have time to adjust my number / let me go.
I understand the "watch out for yourself" mentality of finance, but I'd really like to keep these connections - both as references and future opportunities. Any thoughts on how to avoid burning bridges would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Thats a tough spot, but your new employer is already understaffed, what another 5 days? I would be VERY apprehensive about screwing over an employer like that, but I absolutely don't think you should tell them before you get paid unless you want to see your bonus number potentially slashed to a fraction of what you're expecting.
Why don't you just tell your new employer that you've got existing obligations to your current employer and don't want to leave them hanging without transitioning your responsibilities over? Thats a reasonable request. And if you already told them you can start, well then you're an idiot because you got yourself into this situation, no offense.
No offense taken. I accepted my offer months ago with a flexible start date depending on when I got paid (although they implied I would start sometime in July). About two months ago, HR told us that bonuses would be paid on the 15th. I waited a few weeks to tell my new employer so as to minimize the risk of pushing out my start date. A few weeks ago, my current employer told us that bonuses would be paid on the 31st instead of the 15th, so I updated my future employer. I proposed starting on August 9th so I could build in one week between my bonus date and my start date for transitioning or vacation or whatever, but they asked me to start on the 2nd instead. I didn't want to start off on the wrong foot, especially sInce I had already pushed my start date back once, so I told them I would try to start the 2nd or 3rd.
Trust me, I don't want to be in this situation, but I'm trying to figure out the best exit strategy given the circumstances.
dude take the money and run --- what's the worst that can happen
Do you have any accrued vacation or sick leave? You might see if you can take a few days here and there to help out the new firm while you wait for the check to clear. Maybe sacrifice a few weekends too.
AJ - my primary concern with taking the money and running is that my current bosses would be unwilling to help me in the future. I don't want to completely void all the relationships I've built with senior bankers over the past two years.
Sojourner - I hadn't thought about that. It might be a little too difficult to manage for me, as the legal ramifications could be tricky. Thank you, though.
The way I see it, you have a very small window of time in which you can completely ruin your reputation at your old firm and a much longer window to build a new reputation at your new firm. To me it seems like a no brainer.
give them advance noticed... they may slash you bonus, but so what.......
your rep is one of the most important thing
The after effects of NFing...
The way I see it is that , you should have set a sizeable buffer period for a case like this ( > 1 month). In the current state of things, I think you need to remind yourself your new employers are obvserving every step of the way. Given this condition, I would go for the risk averse route. I believe you have much more downside (-----) than you have upside (++).
If you quit do you have to repay stub bonus? (Originally Posted: 11/30/2010)
If an associate quits does he have to repay the stub? Any different if you are fired?
Also, how long do you have to stay before you don't have to repay the sign on? If you are fired do you have to repay it?
Thank you
This is America afterall, we fuck people and rationalize it by thinking that the fuck-ee's would've done the same if they were in the shoes of the fuck-ers.
In any case, this is one shitty situation to be in. Hope you find your way through it...
Usually 1 year; repay if you quit.
some firms will tier the repayment of the sign on bonus. For example, if you quit after 3 months you would have to pay back 75% of the bonus, after 6 months 50%, after 9 months 25%, and after 12 months the bonus is all yours - odds are you will have spent it all by then anyways. Those numbers aren't exact but you get the idea.
Repay signon bonus within 1 year (usually detailed in contract), never heard of repayment of stub bonus
Stub bonus is when you're starting partially through a bonus cycle? Why would you have to repay? Does anyone ever have to repay regular bonuses? Signing are different, and employers will usually consider them as "loans" that will be paid off by the employer over a period of time. If you leave before the loan is paid, you owe the rest.
I'm only a college kid, but I have to agree with beezle's point. If it were the other way around, do you think they would give you a heads up about firing you? It's not personal; It's business.
Weird Bonus/Quitting Situation (Originally Posted: 02/19/2013)
So I took a consulting offer, start date is March 11th. I am supposed to get my bonus at my current firm on Fed 28th. For me to put in my 2 weeks notice, it has to be by this friday the 22nd or monday the 25th. I am scared that if I put in my notice before getting the bonus, they will not give it to me. I'm weighing the decision of waiting until the 28th to let them know, but still no real clue what to do. Any ideas on the best route? My bonus should be somewhere in the 5-8K range, not huge but i want it obviously.
Yes. He gave the guy I replaced ample time to search for a new job before letting him go, and even called on other buy-side contacts to try to place him. Not everyone in the industry is a heartless Wall Street douchebag.
Do. Not. Quit. Until the money is in the bank. They absolutely will not pay you. Quit and tell them theyre getting 10 or so days notice. They probably wont want you to show up for that period anyway.
This. Once you put in your notice they take you off everything and you just sit at your desk.
^Second this. Also, not sure what the protocol is at your firm, but I've definitely heard of some people who quit and are asked to leave that same day. That's more the case if you're in an entry-level job and don't have any real important projects you're currently working on though i think
Wait until it hits your account before you say or do ANYTHING - forget the two weeks' notice if you need to.
I honestly don't think my firm would be one to make me leave right away. My only concern is that my new employer will call them up for my background check and will tell them I dicked them over and didnt give enough notice.
Don't quit until the money is in your account.
Even if there is overlap, you can just take the last few days as annual leave while you start at the new place.
Quit a few weeks in to your new job. If it comes up for whatever reason, just use the old, "Oh, by the way, I don't work here anymore."
Look at your employment contract just in case because in some cases they have the right to take back your bonus if you quit, so your dilemma might be mute. Also, depends on what is your relationship with the bosses although i don't think anyone will blame you too much for taking the money (they all would probably do it the same way). Also, sometimes you might get the bonus but the check won't be deposited until few days, so that's something to think about. Lastly, consider asking the new employer to extend the starting day to a week later (make up a reason, but gauge how flexible this might be in the firm).
Wait for the money to hit..
Thanks guys. I will hopefully end up with a bonus and testicles in tact.
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