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I think all of the above (assuming it is Moelis LA) are going to give you similar buyside exit opps. Lazard and BX might have slightly better reputations outside finance though.
Thanks. Only looking to go to a PE Megafund afterwards.
BX is slightly better than LAZ, GHL, or EVR for buyside exit ops, IMO.
LAZ has the most established reputation, but that won't really be a factor as most of the people making hiring decisions will know all of them.
Moelis is going to be at the bottom for exit ops. Anyone who says Moelis LA is going to be best, when Moelis is moving most of their operations and almost all their junior staff to NYC, doesn't know what they're talking about.
All of them are solid, unless it's a new office.
In terms of exit, I'd rank them into 2 groups
1: BX, Lazard, Evercore (not enough cred on WSO even though they've been killing it recently) 2: GHL, Moelis
There's some sort of stinging fetish with the Moelis name and the former UBS LA (pre-2008) on this forum for some reason.
Thanks guys! Sent you a PM Sirbankalot
GHL and LAZ sent one person each to KKR last year. none from BX or EVR - just saying.
Yeah, but from EVR, one guy recently got several megafund offers including BX PE and SL. Another guy went to Carlyle the year before. Plenty of analysts have gotten into Apax/Warburg Pincus amongst others. One of the top guys (a senior partner I think) at KKR was an analyst at Evercore for what that's worth.
As for BX, it's pretty much the same thing. A few into BX PE, TPG, etc, over the years. Pretty much everyone gets into PE or a HF, if they want to just the same. If it's not one of the megafunds, it's usually at least the PE arm of of one the BBs (think CS' PE group and the like).
Again, it's all pretty much the same for these boutiques. When I was in the position of the poster, I got slightly insane trying to figure out the difference between these firms, but again, it's pretty much minimal in terms of exit ops. Your performance and recs from senior partners at whatever firm you're at by far matter the most.
Hope that helps...
is KKR considered the "best" PE or is carlyle, KKR, Blackstone, TPG considered the same?
KKR= pioneers of PE, King of PE,
IMO
Difference is minimal between those four
nvm
you got those offers coming from ut?
he didnt say he had all of them. i know ghl loves texas for some reason.
greenhill would probably give you the best combination of exit ops + good culture. bx is probably the most "prestigious" of them. moelis is worse than the others. evercore and lazard will give you great deal experience but have shitty cultures, especially lazard.
.
i agree that moelis does not belong in the same sentence as the other four.
imo, tier 1 elite boutiques are ghl evercore bx lazard and the tier 2s are centerview pwp and rothschild
rest are not elite... moelis hasn't done a legitimate m&a deal in 2 years... what a joke.. you are not gonna get good experience if the firm is not doing any deals.
in the tier 1 firms, i would personally choose ghl, then evercore, followed by bx and lazard last. ghl has great culture, tremendous deal flow and placement. evercore has arguably the best dealflow out of all of them. you are also a generalist at these two firms. blackstone is super prestigious but doesn't compare to the other 3 in terms of dealflow. they do a lot of buy side advisory for blackstone pe. lazard has horrible culture, and you will join an industry group with in my opinion defeats the purpose of a boutique analyst experience.
best of luck.
Elite Boutiques, BB vs MBB for exit opps (Originally Posted: 03/24/2011)
Which have better exit opps?
We all know non-MBB consulting firms basically only have one exit opp: death by mediocrity or suicide. What about MBB?
Bain & Company -> Bain Cap
HBS does not lead to "anything" - are you kidding me. Getting into PE from business school without PE experience would be very difficult.
MBB and BB will usually have better exit opps over elite boutiques due to brand name alone. In general, MBB tend to go into industry or PE and BB generally goes to HF or PE.
Then there's the fact that a lot of people from MBB/BB just burn out eventually and start their own business or move into unrelated fields to finally spend their cash and enjoy life ;)
Riffs, Moelis/Evercore/Lazard place a lot better than Credit Suisse, DB, Citi, Barclays, etc.
I agree that certain boutiques definitely do, and to be honest if I were a banker I think I'd rather work at Lazard/Evercore than any BB. However, boutique banks in a general sense would probably not place better than BB's I would assume, outside of a handful (including those you listed).
Ultimately it really just depends on who you know though anyway heh
^ yeah this is so true actually. BAML had excellent placements last year but not so much this year.
Are these all for nyc?
Blackstone's analyst placement into PE megafunds is unrivaled.
Lazard comes the closest to BX, but the culture there is a nightmare.
Elite Boutique Exit Opps (Originally Posted: 03/17/2011)
First time posting on WSO. I'm looking to transfer from a MM shop in LA to NYC. Partly because of girlfriend / family stuff but also because I'm interested in buy-side opportunities that the shop that I'm at now doesn't really afford. I have the opportunity to go to either a pretty good BB (think CS, BarCap, BAML, Citi) or potentially to one of the top elite boutiques (think Lazard, Evercore, Greenhill, Moelis). Clearly don't want to specify to give it away. My questions is... how well do the elite boutiques really place? I know there is a lot of chatter on these formus about them, but some of it is contradictory. For you on this forum who have been in this year's recruiting season, how well have the people from these top boutiques placed? Also, which has placed the best? Finally, do they rank up there with GS and MS as far as placement? I hear that LAZ and EVR place very well and better than the rest, but wanted to get some first hand feedback.
LAZ places very well, but it's tough to say that they place up there with GS and MS (as you know... those are the two "best" banks in the world). I'd say Evercore is another step below Lazard in terms of placement (from what I've seen), but without question the lifestyle would be better at Evercore (the one person i spoke to who was an analyst there like it... whereas all 4-5 people I know well who worked at Lazard said they worked 100 hours every single week for 2 years). If you've got an offer at Citi or CS I'd take that over any of those boutiques though... generally speaking
disclaimer: Everything above is somewhat arbitrary... but I think you'll find others on this board agree that if they had to make an arbitrary claim about this they'd make similar claims
Really appreciate the feedback. Interesting about the preference for Citi or CS though.. as I've heard that Lazard or Evercore are definitely the way to go compared to any BB besides GS or some parts of MS. However, this is just from my friends, so definitely nice to get your opinion. Would be great to hear from people who have first hand knowledge on where analysts from LAZ or EVR placed this year.
^that's very silly advice. To say that Evercore has better exit ops than Citi M&A or CS Sponsors or another top group at one of these BBs is actually ludicrous. I mean, I think that's just a lot of college kids who are starting at Evercore next summer trying to tell you that. I think you've got a better argument with Lazard or Blackstone IB, but still...
If you anywhere outside the U.S. or maybe London no one has every heard of Evercore, Moelis, etc... that's one thing to keep in mind.
If I were in college, I would have chosen Citi M&A or CS Sponsors over LAZ/EVR/Moelis/GHL because brand recognition was very important factor. But now, after 2yrs of banking and going through the PE recruiting process, I know boutiques really do much better than BBs. Other than GS TMT/MS M&A/few other top BB groups, boutiques do better at placement, % wise. And you know, each BB has ~100 people in their class. It's much easier to stand out among 10~15 people than 100.
In terms of this year's placement, I've heard BX Restructuring and Moelis killed it. Surprisingly, LAZ not so well. Not sure about other boutiques
^ How come they place better? I would actually prefer to work at one of the top boutiques so i'm interested in hearing why they do better than BB's.
It's pretty simple. Every analyst working at boutiques is going to be contacted by the recruiters, because boutiques have small class (and all generalists, no separation). On the other hand, BB has 60~100 people per class. It's just too much to handle. They are only going to pick few guys from the groups that they have been working with. So lots of analysts at BB won't even get a call from the recruiters.
In terms of the modeling test, although it's very straightforward, I saw many analysts from industry groups without solid understanding of model/finance/transaction, having hard time to pass. Yes, each bank has different structures and execute deals within the house, but in general speaking.
I think (totally biased) there are about 100 analysts from elite boutiques vs ~800 BB. If megafunds hire 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 5 from boutiques (which I think is totally conservative assumption), I think it gives you the answer.
interesting - that's not what I would have expected.
just chose the place you fell will give the best experience, best fit, deal flow etc. you will get your exit opps if your are set on those, nonetheless to which of those you go.
what about Perella Weinberg? I have heard that they have the best exit opps as far as b school is concerned. (perella sits on hbs board) and they have a kick ass rainmakers?
PWP has very good b-school placement, and also internal promotes a lot of their analysts, but isn't great if you want to go buy-side, as they tend to discourage that.
I concur with dbdbdip. I believe it's a numbers game.
id take laz and Evercore over the bbs you mentioned in your post. dbdbdip is right. the elite boutiques place very well. not saying that you wont get the same interviews/opps from a CS or Citi, but still i'd take the boutiques
boutiques like Moelis, Lazard and Evercore, they are soly focused on M&A advisory, which gives the analysts the chance to really develop their understanding of this businesss and practice modeling skills. PE shops are exactly looking for such deal experience/skills.
plus Evercore/Greenhill got the att deal, what happened to GS TMT lol
ATT deal was all Greenhill. EVR came in the last week for Altman's regulatory experience.
Do you have a source for this? Would be interested to read about that. Also, I believe the reason that GS wasn't on this deal is because they're advising Sprint on their options, though I can't remember where I heard that.
Why is Blackstone M&A not mentioned with LAZ/EVR/GHL? Are they not considered a boutique? How do they typically place?
Do you think Citi or BAML is stronger
Are people here actually involved in recruiting / in touch with the composition of pre-MBA associate classes at the largest funds? Here's how the recruiters and firms look at the banks:
(CS Sponsors = BarCap NatRes = Citi M&A) > (Evercore = Lazard = Moelis) > (Greenhill = BAML M&A = CS M&A) > hodgepodge of all other groups
This is all indicative, though. I've seen kids who had a great degree (i.e. Wharton), worked at pidgeonholey groups and ended up at megafunds. Bank is only one factor.
This probably isn't going to help you much, but frankly, whether you're coming from GS, BarCap, Evercore, Moelis, Greenhill.... at the end of the day, your experience and personality fit will carry the day. I've hired guys from William Blair and Houlihan over guys from GS and MS.
Remember, PE recruitment isn't like IB recruitment. It's not like banking where you have your campus candidates and then the different IB groups essentially have to choose who they like from the available pool that came through HR. We (PE) can be and are extremely picky.
Also, we come from diverse backgrounds and unlike bankers, we don't keep track of league tables. To me, many of the banks people are listing here are interchangeable and a candidate with any of them would impress me equally. What would matter more to me is the industry focus and the deal experience.
i love how every post insulting moelis got monkey shit thrown at it. someone at moelis is a little insecure...
London Offices - EBs vs BB / Exit (Originally Posted: 02/24/2016)
Hey all,
I am interested in Exit possibilities to good PEs from London Boutiques, in particular Moelis & Co, Greenhill, Rothschild, Centerview and PWP. How would you compare against BB exits? Research on linkedin does not show a clear picture.
bump. PJT (fka Blackstone as well)
I'm interested in similar things, more aligned to BB though... I think generally it is less structured than in the US. Less firms want to chuck out out after 2/3 years like in US and so you don't have MD's or the bank trying to bat for you, and so exits are more down to individual than bank. Just my 2 cents but I could be wrong. Any more insight appreciated.
Lots of BB analysts exit into PE - wherereas for Moelis (which is a less known brand) its not like the US. However Rothschild seem to have decent ops and Lazards. If you get BB London then it would be preferable over EB - top analysts go to BB so where PE recruits from.
It all depends on the BB and the EB in my opinion... And even more on the group. A bad group in a lower-tier BB will not be as good as a top group in a EB... And inversely. As long as you are in a BB or a EB I still think that you get good exits in London. Though don't expect to go to a MegaFund easily if you don't come from the top shops
Bump
Elite boutique exit opportunities (Originally Posted: 11/06/2010)
I know people mention how great the exit opportunities out of Greenhill/Evercore/Perella, etc. are, but how true is that (first hand experience please, not reading WSO experience)? If there are 40-50 kids in all elite boutiques a year and ~100 at say Morgan Stanley, there should be 2 Morgan kids for every elite boutique kid at most funds, but going through PE firm profiles there are WAY more GS/MS guys than boutique guys even adjusting for size.
I do go to UT, and all my offers are for NYC. Thanks for your help guys!
Firstly, congrats on the offers
Secondly, are you a Texas BBA in finance or part of the Texas Master in Professional Accounting program?
Thirdly, how did you manage to get those offers in NYC? I know UT is a big feeder into Houston IB but didn't think they placed that many in NYC.
Yup, I was wondering the same thing. I have a friend that I just had lunch with that graduated from UT, now at Simmons, said that UT students do not get opps in NY.
You know if you weren't a bro-hating, anti-lax, GDI hipster.
Best of luck,
laxBrah4life
String
Any idea ?
bump thoughts?
are you sure? I just looked through KKR and carlyle, and I saw very few associates from GS/MS IBD
.
We only recruit UT kids for houston, this guy's probably a liar and playing another ranking game.
He/she didn't say he had offers from all of the firms... I know at least 3 of the firms recruit at UT for NYC
At an EB, but I don't want to do PE or HF. What are my options? (Originally Posted: 08/09/2017)
What are some options for people who are don't want to be in finance long-term? Besides for corporate finance -- which is really just finance at another place -- is there anything else one can do?
what sectors have you worked with / are interested in?
Corp Dev, Bus Dev, FP&A, Venture Capital, Credit Risk, Market Risk, Equity Sales, NA Rates Sales, Sales & Trading or Officer Candidate School :)
What do I have to gain by lying to people I have never met?
Elite Boutique exits not in Private Equity or Hedge Fund? (Originally Posted: 01/06/2018)
I will be going to Moelis/HL RX in LA as an analyst next year and was wondering where analysts from smaller banks go if they choose to not recruit for PE/HF or stay as an associate. I am really excited to be joining the group because I liked the people I met but am questioning how much I'll enjoy the industry itself once I start. I'm concerned because I chose the bank for the great people and small office but now I'm wondering whether it will be hard to leave high finance if I choose to do so.
Will recruiting into a different job be more difficult than from a bulge bracket because my firm is less-known to people outside of the industry? Where have you seen elite boutique analysts go if they didn't want to recruit for buyside jobs or become an associate?
I never claimed you were lying- I am genuinely curious about your situation.
If you could, answer my questions when you get the chance.
cheers
Lazard and Greenhill definitely recruit at TX for the NYC. I know several people in the office and have interviewed in the past with them.
Also... FTPiper most likely attended a school that doesn't have anything remotely close to a reputable sports program. I'd also put good money down that he unsuccessfully tried his little heart out to land a piece of poontang from the collegiate swamp donkeys gracing his proud campus.
Mack Brown for President
AquaVermin, bummer your thread hasn't had a response yet. Maybe one of these threads could point you in the right direction:
If we're lucky, maybe I can guilt some users to help you out: Michael-Pang1 watdo @pubfinanalyst"
Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.
That's awesome. Congrats! Are these full-time offers or summer analyst?
too bad Texas sucks at football
seriously, what is the big deal about moelis? their ny class had very average placement, and they have no m&a dealflow whatsoever. i have asked for someone on this board to name a few deals they worked on in 2009 and no one has stepped up... they have a few restructuring mandates but that skillset is limited and only complementary to the m&a skillset unless someone is focused on doing distressed debt related work later on..
the analysts there i've spoken to are absolutely miserable.... they hired ALOT of people recently and the workload there do not justify the hiring. plus the internal strife there is very bad. their ex head of healthcare, rick langarden, left for barclays less than a year after joining the firm because they weren't seeing any action... so what's so elite about moelis?
They're overrated by their overachieving ex-ubs LA legacy team. Now they're just a shell and in my opinion no longer an elite or even a good boutique. Moelis simply sucks.
why even bother? In the end, we are all getting the same exit opportunity anyways.
FYI, Moelis had a couple of large transactions earlier on right after its founding, but its recent deal activity has been TINY. There are a lot of shitty no name boutiques out there that could trump Moelis' deal volume/size over the past year. Again, it's just a bunch of high school kids on this forum following each other around blindly.
Utexas11,
So you say you have offers from some of those places...
I know for a fact you do not have an offer from Evercore or Greenhill in NYC.
Blackstone did not recruit at UT this year. Lazard houston recruits at UT, not NYC. Moelis has never recruited from UT.
So quit wasting peoples time on this forum and stop being Jeffrey Chiang Jr. and making kids from UT look like idiots.
I told you so.
I can confirm everything theTRUTH said. I know the people who Evercore offered didn't post this. BX, LAZ NY, and Moelis did not recruit at UT this year.
The only offer this person could have would be Greenhill, and I know who the only person Greenhill offered at UT is. So, unless you are that person, you are a liar. If you are that person, I know this is the only offer you, miraculously, got. Don't worry about PE megafund exits. You won't even be getting a FT offer after the summer. How you got this offer? Nobody knows. It truly is a miracle.
Moelis has a ton of bankers. If they don't start doing deals no one will get paid. How were bonuses this year?
theTRUTH is correct. I happen to know every person from UT who got offers at these places and none of them got more than one/wrote this post. So Utexas11 is obviously lying. He/She probably doesn't even go to Texas.
Funny how the past 2 posters' accounts were created in the past hour, and these are their only posts. I wonder why the OP's getting so much hate from one person.
Most likely due to jeffrey chiang's taint on the school. I bet UT kids are very paranoid right now about each other being liars and deceivers.
When I went through SA recruiting last year (at UT), Jeffries, HSBC, EVR (Restructuring group), GHL, Citi, and Imperial Capital were the only ones that came on campus looking for New York.
For FT, I think JEF, EVR and GHL came and maybe another boutique.
All the other banks were for Houston only. The people who got offers from other banks/botiques in NY bypassed OCR and went through their networks.
Moelis NYC is sending kids to Apollo, KKR, and TPG.
Moelis LA is sending analysts to TPG, Silver Lake, Carlyle, and KKR.
I agree that some other elite boutiques have worked on bigger name deals but the amount you learn as an analyst and the skill set that you develop are based on a variety of factors such as the amount of responsibility you are expected to assume, the amount of live deals you are on at a single time, and senior mentorship.
I also agree that Moelis LA is unique in that it has a very insular, high-performing culture. However, as shown by the Moelis NYC placement into 3 megafunds - Moelis NYC analysts are also being well-trained.
I think the argument for Moelis is that the analyst experience there is of very high caliber, not necessarily that the firm itself is high caliber yet.
Everyone is saying BX - that suprises me - their name is in PE, not advisory
If I were you I would go with Greenhil/Evercore/Moelis as my top choice and go with Lazard as a second
Also - the obsession on this site with "Mega" shops is interesting - while these names are great and may provide you with a better ability to start your own fund in the future (resume building) but you will learn MUCH more at a solid middle market shop if you want to do pure LBO PE....
If you want to do more market focused things on the investment side you go to Apollo - there is no one else that is as good at those types of this in the "big boy world" (leveraged fixed income investments)
Even though the poster is obviously a fraud it is an interesting discussion around which one of these shops gives you the best options - IMO all good names and you can't go wrong
Moelis isn't sending anyone to KKR NY.
Yeah both Moelis guys going to KKR are going to Menlo/SF. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
That said, KKR NY interviewed Moelis LA guys but their preference was to stay on the West Coast so the one that chose to go there went to Menlo.
There are no Moelis kids at KKR (in ANY office) as of now. Did they just accept an offer for July 2010 start? No Moelis kids in the 2009 associate class
Yes, everything everyone talks about regarding Moelis is for 2010 start. These are all currently 2nd year analysts.
dude, moelis was just created a couple years ago, thus the 1st year entering class back then would be starting their PE gig in the latter of this year. and these guys have soem amazing work exp. with the largest deals of 2008..
Hey guys,
Hypothetically speaking lets say I am working at Moelis this summer. Do you think if I want to move to a bulge bracket or to another firm that will be possible at all? Or not really and they will look at Moelis name and laugh me out of the room.
They may look at your name and laugh you out the room. Also, your post tells me you don't have an offer and have never worked in banking. I can probably tell why, you seem a little low on confidence. Make your own rules kid, if some kid tells you can't do X, Y or Z, would you really not try???. If you believe the college kids on here, no one without a 3.7+ from an elite target like Wharton can get into GS TMT, MS M&A, GHL, LAZ etc kind of places. ALL this is BS. 90% of these posters haven't stepped inside an investment bank. Getting a job is all about your intelligence, knowledge, motivation and personality. If I say you are fucked, Firm X will never take you.....will you go back and not do shit? Stop worrying about what people here say.
Original Question: Depends on the person, I have seen people go from no-name shops to MS, GS FT. Why so insecure? Get a job and then come back and ask questions.
I'm very surprised to hear where Moelis 2nd year analysts are going this summer. That seems like an incredible track record. Does anyone know where Lazard, Blackstone, Greenhill, and Evercore's 2nd year analysts are going this summer? Lastly, how do PE placements at, say, McKinsey compare?
def a troll post... apparent by the fact that the kid's name is UTexas
Because it seems like people would be interested in this, here's how TPG's incoming class stacks up (this is for the buyout fund):
1 from Lazard 1 from Greenhill 2 from Moelis 1 from Credit Suisse 1 from Morgan Stanley 1 from BAML 2 from Goldman Sachs (they typically have 2-3 offers in TMT alone from TPG every year)
I also asked and GHL is sending a guy to TPG, one to Apax, one to GA, and three more to mid-market shops.
Thanks for sharing. What is your source?
My good friend is one of the nine.
Cool, thanks for sharing. Do you have any info about which groups the BB guys were in?
I'm not sure - but if I find out I'll post it
one of my friends from Moelis who is going to TPG said there are 3 of them. Don't know, it maybe two different locations?
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