Graduated from a target in May, still unemployed. Living the nightmare - what now?

I went to a top target in the US. My employer from my junior year internship (in a niche product) didn't give anyone return offers, and FT recruiting was weak this year + didn't go so hot for me. I'm Canadian, which is hardly international but I would need to get sponsored and for smaller firms this was more of an issue.

I applied for Post-Completion OPT and made it to some final rounds for off-cycle openings in asset-based finance (to keep it non-specific), and I didn't really get negative feedback (my interview skills have greatly improved over the course of the year, a bit too late hah), just that they took pre-2013 grads with more experience. With the 90-day unemployment gap closing soon, I came back to Canada a few days ago. So close, very disheartening etc.

I don't have my heart set on i-banking (that would be stupid at this point anyway), but it seems like the Canadian finance industry is very different, and generally pretty consolidated into big banks and big institutional investors like the pension funds. The alumni base here is relatively small and they mostly fall into the former categories.

Any advice into breaking in when the hiring process seems a lot more structured than in the US? I'm especially interested in real estate acquisitions/development (either at an integrated firm or REIT) or infrastructure, and willing to do an internship and relocate anywhere, but I'm guessing my best bets are in Toronto or Calgary. I feel like I'm starting from scratch without the cache of my degree, because it seems like employers in Canada DGAF about American degrees.

 

If you are Canadian and interested in real estate, look into those Canadian pension funds. They didn't get hit with the recession barely at all and are buying up real estate EVERYWHERE, including in the US.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

What kind of grades did you have? If you went to a top target you shouldn't have any trouble finding alums to connect with in the financial industry. Your alumni network is going to be your best bet for landing a job so leverage it all that you can.

It sounds like your interview skills are questionable so that's the first thing you should look to improve. Get your resume reviewed and make sure that it's worth its weight in gold. If you spent 5 hours on your resume go spend another 5 tweaking it. You have almost zero control over the job hunting process except for twothings: how you dress and your resume. The dress part is simple, don't dress like a fucking clown. Your resume should be bulletproof and you should have it memorized.

Lastly, reflect on your previous job hunt. Were you getting interviews? Were you getting through phone screens, 1st rounds, 2nd rounds, etc... try to hone in on your weakness(es).

 

I graduated with a 3.6.

Interviews have been all over the place, really. I had a good number of first round interviews during recruiting, but most of them didn't go anywhere - in retrospect I can either pinpoint where it went wrong, or they asked me upfront if they would eventually have to sponsor a visa. In terms of being brutally honest with myself, a) I'm too casual, which can be hit or miss and b) I'm probably not assertive enough in interviews. At this point, it's like an unvirtuous circle...the farther I get away from graduation, the more each interview matters and the more nervous I get. Cold-dropping has been virtually useless, except for one top RE firm that had a superday of 5 people from ~400 candidates (the process has been weird in terms of being mostly smaller places and then bam random elite firm). Most of my luck has been through a headhunter who reached out to me because of my niche internship, or through postings on career services, even if they're not recruiting on campus.

 
Best Response

In Canada you have the global real estate and infrastructure groups within the large pension funds: CPPIB real estate and infrastructure, Cadillac Fairview / Teachers' Infrastructure, Oxford Properties / Borealis (OMERS), Ivanhoe Cambridge / Caisse Depot Infrastructure, etc. These are difficult positions to get into without prior work experience or entering through a structured recruiting process (they typically hire ex-investment bankers with at least a year of experience). The good thing about these pension funds is that they're growing at a rapid clip because of contributions and they are at the forefront of developing independent investment platforms. Asset-based industries in particular, such as real estate and infrastructure, work very well within the pension fund model of investing (lower hurdle rates, aversion towards volatility, and a long-term investment horizon). This has resulted in world class real estate and infrastructure investment platforms (whereas the same can't be said for private / public equities, credit even though they're aggressively trying to build it out). Given the growth in AUM over the foreseeable future, there should be a number of high quality opportunities with significant potential for career advancement continuing to open up in both real estate and infrastructure.

You also have the large asset managers / REITs such as Brookfield and RioCan but their recruitment process is similar to the large pension funds mentioned above.

All the large Canadian banks have infrastructure (mostly PPP / financing work) and real estate (capital markets and brokerage) investment banking groups. Some of these have fairly disparate real estate / infrastructure groups (e.g., RBC, CIBC on the infrastructure side) and may do recruiting outside of the typical cycle so it may make sense to reach out directly to people in those groups. Particularly on the brokerage side of things which is less formal.

Real estate development is an area that is booming in Toronto given the housing market. However, outside of the pension funds and large asset managers, it's mostly private Italian and Jewish families in Toronto and that can be difficult to break into without relationships.

Where I would focus your attention on is (i) the pension funds with emerging investment platforms that are growing head count rapidly and on a more ad-hoc basis (e.g., AIMCo, PSP, OPTrust); and (ii) smaller lesser known infrastructure funds (e.g., Northleaf Capital just started an infrastructure group and Caledon Capital is a smaller but reputable infrastructure fund). These places are likely more receptive to networking and non-traditional backgrounds (although it sounds like you have some good experience and just need to find the right opportunity), and where your interest in the industry will set you apart.

Toronto is a fantastic city to live in and you'll not be short of opportunities in the areas you're interested in. Good luck.

 

You lost me at "went to a top target". What was your major and why are you looking for a job after graduation? I'd like to be of assistance but first I need to know what your deal is.

What have you been doing with your time?

Get busy living
 
Prospect022:

A top tier target + unemployed? Wow, must've had some bad luck run your way. Goodluck man.

Not unheard of. Also went to top tier target and many of my friends are unemployed or underemployed (working data-entry/assistant type jobs to pay the bills). It's not as unheard of as you imagine, especially for those who did a change of major, decided a little too late what career they wanted, or simply didn't have the right connections.
Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

Yeah...I know a few people in the same situation, just without the international angle. Based on some conversations with career services, the percentage still looking isn't totally insignificant.

From what I've seen, the people who end up at the very best groups are really on another level or well connected. Beyond that, going to a target isn't a golden ticket into a BB or MBB job. It's still hypercompetitive (I have a ton of respect for the non-target underdog hustle and make it story that WSO loves), and a lot of people don't end up where they thought they'd be, orrrr in some cases, with anything at all. The last few months, really this last year as this current predicament unfolded, have been particularly humbling.

 
chicandtoughness:
Prospect022:

A top tier target + unemployed? Wow, must've had some bad luck run your way. Goodluck man.

Not unheard of. Also went to top tier target and many of my friends are unemployed or underemployed (working data-entry/assistant type jobs to pay the bills). It's not as unheard of as you imagine, especially for those who did a change of major, decided a little too late what career they wanted, or simply didn't have the right connections.

This baffles me. I didn't go to an ivy and it took me a year to find the job I wanted. A buddy of mine who went to an ivy and had no connections whatsoever just made a few phone calls to the alumni network and found a job in a few weeks.

Take this for what it's worth:

I have to be completely honest - from my perspective, if you went to an ivy and aren't working or in grad school within a year of graduation and wish to be....you're doing something very wrong. Aside from encouraging you to just keep trying, there really isn't enough information to tailor any advice to your particular situation. You need to give a little more info and explain what you've been doing to find a job so that the errors can be located and addressed....what have you been doing with your time?

If I were you, I'd pick a line of work and hit up your alumni network....they're the primary reason people want to go to ivies, and they can literally change your life with one phone call.

Get busy living
 

Target with 3.6? Yeah, I don't feel bad for you. Network and apply to everything online, work with recruiters, you are bound to find something good.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

Getting MBB consulting out of a top target Ivy college is still ridiculously competitive. I always kind of laugh when some clueless posters here imply that coming from HYP, you'd have to be a screw up not to get one of MBB or BB IBD gigs.

From my college (HYP), around 300 kids applied for 5-7 analyst slots at places like Bain and McKinsey. You needed to have at least 3.7 GPA just to be in running for first round interviews on campus. The kids who got top gigs, such as MBB, top hedge fund (DE Shaw, Citadel, etc) were all ridiculously smart and easily ranked top 10% of the class at my college, in terms of intelligence and work ethic.

To OP: my advice would be to cast a wide net. Don't just apply for jobs in the industry of your choice. Apply for anything that you think you are remotely qualified in. Look into 2nd/ 3rd tier consulting gigs (Deloitte, Pwc, Accenture, etc) I graduated from a top target with a horrible gpa and was unemployed for like 5 months, but ended up landing a 2nd/ 3rd tier consulting gig after some luck and 'networking'.

 

Boys, my buddy went to a top target school and moved back to Canada as well. Took him about six months to find something but he got a pretty cushy gig at an AM firm. Reach out to alum, they will rapidly expand your network for you. Be relaxed when meeting contacts, its not an interview - networking is big here if not going the structured route. Also remember IB isn't end all be all, there are a lot of FO jobs that I would consider much more intellectually stimulating - take the first FO you are offered and then keep looking (you are much more marketable once you have a job) or who knows you might like it. Other than that enjoy the nightlife on the weekends and don't beat yourself over the head each day - stay positive, you'll be good in the long run.

yea, yea, yea
 

Still unemployed, but have been much more active on the networking front. I'm not from Toronto, but I took a trip down there at the beginning of the month and got some face-to-face meetings in. Other than that, been hitting the phones and LinkedIn trying to talk to people. Nothing concrete, a lot of "You're doing exactly the right thing by setting up this meeting, and don't worry too much because with a xyz degree you'll be ok even if it takes a while." and then referrals to other people based on those conversations.

Have sent my resume to people, including Vlaad (to any Canadians out there) who told me they don't do fresh grads, but the feedback is that the experience, GPA, school, etc. is good, it's just a matter of getting it in the hands of the right person at the right time. The direct application route has proven almost entirely useless, so while I'm still scanning Indeed and LinkedIn, it's really an afterthought to getting out there and trying to create chances for myself.

So basically it's an "ongoing process", to say the least. Also weighing getting a sublet somewhere in Toronto so that I at least have feet on the ground, versus being way off in the Maritimes.

 

Same here. I have been networking and sending out my resumes through Linkedin and Indeed.

I have had people say they will pass my resume along and hopefully something comes up soon enough. Even people who didn't go to my school have been helpful in cold-emailing and got to talk to a few of them on phone for any open positions. Hopefully both of us land something soon.

Shit sucks being unemployed for so long.

 

getting a sublet is a smart idea so you can easily meet anyone at anytime that is good for them.

If you put in banking hours ~80-100hrs per week, you'd be surprised how fast you can find a job, it's just hard to be that disciplined when there is no boss or fire drill to light a fire under your ass.

Like others have said, you may want to widen your scope a bit to some fldps as well.

 
Whgm45:

Keep networking and meeting people, I was in a similar situation after graduation and ended up landing a job through an alum. People are definitely hiring, you just need to contact the right person at the right time.

How long did it take you to land a gig?

I have people telling me it took them three months to six and even eight months.

 
TheKid1:
Whgm45:

Keep networking and meeting people, I was in a similar situation after graduation and ended up landing a job through an alum. People are definitely hiring, you just need to contact the right person at the right time.

How long did it take you to land a gig?

I have people telling me it took them three months to six and even eight months.

It took me three and a half months from starting my search to my first day

 

Bump: Does anyone know how feasible it is to go back to the US or get sponsored in the EU? How do Ivey and Queen's grads work in the US right after graduation when the H-1B doesn't kick in until October? It's frustrating to finely comb through the alum directory in Canada to find 5 names in one industry, as opposed to 1200 immediate results from a global search.

 

Canadian citizens can apply for the NAFTA treaty visa without sponsorship (no H1B hassle) so I would think reaching out to alum in the US should be fine in that regards. Not sure in the EU, might have some luck in England as Canada is part of the Common Wealth (some type of work reciprocity visas might exist and be easier to acquire, I've met a few English/Irish folks here that come here on that type of visa without work, and they are doing roofing/painting jobs so doesn't seem to be a high hurdle).

 

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