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I cold-called a candidate about a new opportunity. It was a big step up from his current role, and he had all the right skills and qualifications."Sorry but I'm not interested," he politely said.
I pressed him on it until he said something that really confused me. He told me that he "already made it to the top".
I was familiar with his current company and looked at his resume again.
He wasn't anywhere near the top. He would have needed a telescope to see the top. He wasn't even a manager yet.
He explained to me that "making it to the top" for him meant he loved the exact work he did each day, he loved his company, he was treated fairly and with respect, he made enough money to be comfortable, he had excellent benefits, he had flexibility, and most importantly to him, he's never missed a single football game, dance recital, parent-teacher conference, anniversary, birthday, or any family event.
He knew what taking the next step in his career meant. More time, travel, and sacrifice. "Not worth it," he said.
Your definition of "making it to the top" doesn't have to be society's or anyone else's definition. You Do You.
We can admit that all of us have at least contemplated about setting your goals higher and higher, above your expectations. Getting into a target at university, getting an investment banking internship...the list goes on and on.
When does it really end? Will we ever make it 'to the top'? What is your opinion on this?
It ends either when you decide to call it quits or die. The top is up to the individual to decide, for some it is a title, maybe a salary or a certain amount of security in your nest egg. For some it is unattainable because their goal is out of reach, they constantly set it at new heights or they bow out early.
How many people on WSO actually "make it"? (Originally Posted: 05/13/2013)
I have noticed that there are many people on WSO hoping to do the IBD----> HF/PE/VC route while looking down upon other careers such as PWM, Corp. Fin, IM, and especially Accounting.
My question is how many people actually make it in IBD and successfully transition to HF/PE/VC? Is this mostly a pipedream or do many people actually make this happen?
Mod Note: Good response to this from Patrick:
I personally know 10 who went IB to PE on WSO
all of them.
Quite a few I would imagine...
This is an interesting question...but also one that has to be put into perspective. You can hear about some of our Success Stories here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/wso-success-stories , but you probably don't hear a lot about the members on here that don't ever "make it" the way they initially envisioned they would make it....
My goal is that that WSO will both educate and entertain. My goal is to grow WSO into such a strong community (not just online, but also through the happy hours and WSO Conference) that real meaningful relationships are built and by being a part of that community, we can all make each other more successful.
I can't say how many people make it and how many "sort-of make it" by taking what some might consider "lesser jobs"...but I can also tell you that the most educated and successful on here (Certified Users) typically aren't the ones looking down at those other careers. Usually that is the most immature and delusional users. IB is only 1 path...it's a proven path with nice exit opps, but there is also a lot of sacrifice involved and it is very competitive.
And whether or not something is a pipedream is completely subjective...it depends fully on what the persons background is, how much they want it (ie are they willing to work, study and become the best candidate they can be?), among a whole host of factors ...including luck.
So while I think this question is interesting to think about, it really has to be looked at on a case by case basis...
Oh no I really like the site, it is both informative and entertaining. Next time I read a condescending remark about a particular path I should see if that person is actually a verified member. It is likely that most of those posts are coming from college kids or those who are still trying to break into the industry.
Awesome reply.
Amen, brother. More than one way to "make it"
I did PWM during High School, interned at a more traditional AM senior year of High School and did M&A at a BB freshman summer, all of these in continental Europe. In June I will be starting a summer analyst gig at a $20b+ HF, will I convert to full-time? Nobody knows but this transition is not unheard of.
It's funny how a large majority of the shitload of people on WSO who look down on less 'prestigious' jobs like accounting or PWM haven't even secured a job.
I wouldn't consider getting out of the investment industry/failing to transition to VC/HF/PE failure. Failure is when you are not true to yourself and are doing something that isn't helping you achieve your end goal 10+ years out. You need to find out what makes YOU happy and not what makes 99% of your peers happy.
If you find yourself not interested in the investment industry anymore after your experience, then staying in it for the money is closer to failing than tackling the risks associated with leaving. I know at least one person who has left for programming after he/she found the experience of IBD to be awful and in no way did I think he/she failed.
I tend to assume that most monkeys at WSO are aware that the discourse here is quite hysteric. Especially when it comes to industry perks, exit ops, PE transition and implications of having gone to an Ivy league school.
With regards to the discourse on here, it's the internet. I think the fact that a good portion of people here are sincere (whether or not they are in the industry) makes it better than the vast majority of sites out there.
For what its what, the caliber of discussion on here is several times better than the subscribers only comments treads on WSJ, and I'd imagine that's pretty high up there as far as internet boards go
It seems that many do transition from IB to PE and HFs.
LOL coming from a non target my goal is to get into big 4, and that is usually looked down upon here.
Agree with general consensus here. "Making it" is all relative. I graduated with a 3.0gpa from a non-target and got a Big 4 audit position. WSO played a huge role in "making it" for me..
what exactly is "making it"?
To go further down the rabbit hole of some WSO members' delusion, check out this recent post. Hilarious stuff at times: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-did-you-know-when-you-made-it
Jokes aside, I think OP is referring to "making it" as the Student > IBD > PE/HF path. As others have mentioned, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and IBD should only be considered one way there, albeit the most popular/logical way to the buyside. However, in my own experience, while I know plenty of finance folks that are very well off, the most successful people I know are in completely unrelated fields.
I think that those who make the cut can be seen in those who stick around. Guys who go to a BB probably tend to stick around a website obsessed with banking more than those who don't go into banking.
There are a TON of very successful people on WSO. I don't really think that's in question. Especially when you look at certified users and the users who have been around for a long time and have a lot of posts. That said, on any day to day much of the discourse revolving around specific threads is obviously HS and college level kids talking at, over, and above other HS and college level kids. It obviously sometimes gets a little tiresome. But, that said, there is also a lot of very useful information and posts from those who know what they are talking about. You just have to kind of search it out and weed through some of the other stuff.
It's also true that some of the IB mentality that dominates the site (regimented paths to success, everyone will be rich, PRESTIGE MATTERS SO MUCH, etc) sometimes forces out the more useful posters in different disciplines. But at the end of the day, this is a site geared towards banking, so that is to be expected.
if you are in a position that you like with an upward trajectory then you have made it, for now. Like the old saying goes "spend your twenties to find out what you like, your thirties to master what you like..."
The so called "making it" will change as you age. Nothing is constant until death.
When I got my job offer in corporate finance I considered that making it...for the time being.
I think this happens quite often.
I don't think this happens for everyone.
I think there are ceilings on what is reasonably achievable for people.
I think we do ourselves and our friends a favor when we're not too ambitious. "I am content with what I have." is probably the kindest sentence in the English language- to oneself and those around him.
I think that if you take home (after tax) more than $50K/year (ok, $65K/year in NYC) as an individual and you're unhappy with the lifestyle you can afford, you've got serious issues.
I think the best advice I can give to a 21 year old is to shoot for the stars, but do it quietly. Older people don't want to kill your dreams, but we occasionally find it annoying if it signals a sense of entitlement. Finally, if the outcome isn't reaching the moon, but just a ride in an open cockpit biplane, that's still awesome compared to what most people experience in life, and you should be extremely happy.
At 22, I wanted to run my own hedge fund. That probably will never happen and was ridiculously unrealistic in the first place. My dream since 23 has been financial independence, a farm on Lake Michigan, and being able to go hang gliding every day. That's something I can achieve, and it's something that's a lot easier for people to want me to achieve. I know what I want out of life, and what makes me happy. I know what my limit is. I don't need to own the whole state of Texas, just 40 acres a little ways north of Holland, MI.
Probably the wisest sentence on this site.
The job market is a market like any other - you get what you pay for, more or less. There's no such thing as "making it" in an absolute sense - it all depends on what factors you value.
I started coming on this forum in 2007 as a college student that literally knew nothing about the industry. I was at a semi-target at best. No experience. I didn't know a single person in the industry. In fact, I had basically been a total slacker for my entire life until that point. I started following the forum pretty regularly, and learned a lot over the years. I ended up going into banking at a BB, then to a hedge fund, and then a larger hedge fund. The knowledge I gained here has definitely played a part. The key is to separate the wheat from the chaff, there is a lot of noise and garbage, but just find the few people that know what they are talking about, and soak up everything they share. I have certainly not even come close to "making it" yet - I will never stop pushing myself to achieve more - but I have gone further than I ever imagined when I first started this journey.
Plenty of ppl in my school. Some didn't even do their mbas when they made the transition to HF, PE, & Venture Capital and I go to a non-target.
I made it. Starting at a BB in July. WSO has been super helpful!
I define making it as working because you choose to, not because you must. If you are at Amazon as a simple developer making $90k/year and have just cashed in $800k worth of options, that's making it. If you are a VP at Goldman bringing in $350k with two kids in private school, a $1.5 million mortgage in New Brunswick, and no savings, that's not making it.
We're all gonna make it brahs
^lot of self-promoting going on here...
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