Shall I do a MBA to pursue a PE career?
Dear all,
I have been thinking for the past few weeks regarding whether to pursue a MBA given my situation. Would be great if some experienced people here could give me some valuable opinions.
I have a finance postgraduate degree already from a top UK university (think oxbridge, LSE etc). I have more than 2 years of BB investment banking experience in London. Currently i work at a megafund (think KKR, blackstone, TPG etc) in Asia.
I would one day want to work in the U.S or go back to London to work in either PE or HF.
My question is that should i pursue a top MBA (Harvard, stanford etc) in the U.S in order to work in HF or PE in the U.S? I would like to know my chances of getting into a good HF or PE in the U.S? MBA is indeed very expensive, so i would like to make a well-informed decision here.
My concerns are firstly i will need to get a work visa to work in the U.S, some employer might not like this. secondly I dont really have mature market (U.S or Europe) buyside experiences, I have good Asian PE experiences but not sure how relevant it is if i want to work in the U.S. thirdly from my experience i am not sure how valuable MBA is to break into HF, as i dont think HF really values MBA that much. PE does value MBA, but i am not sure how competitive i will be going against other ppl who are also after post MBA PE opportunities.
Thank you so much!
In London, the PE route from
In London, the PE route from what I understand is less structured. The opportunity to move up the ladder in the US might require a MBA but in London, it's less rigid.
That being said, doing an MBA at a top school WITH prior PE experience makes you a good candidate for post MBA PE jobs and the US wouldn't be out of reach in terms of employability.
My question is, are you hoping to gain a shot at the EU/US job market with a MBA? I know most people will use the MBA as a switching tool but for jobs, not geography. Why not stay on in the megafund (since that will be your exit op post business school) and find an opportunity to move abroad that way?
When do you sleep?...Sunday
thanks for this. That is
thanks for this.
That is exactly my problem. I think you are right saying that I am using a MBA PURELY trying to switch geography, so that is why i dont know if that is worth it. I like what I am doing now and see HF or PE as a long term career focus but just cant see myself living in Asia for the long term. I am not sure whether using MBA to switch geography but doing the same job afterwards is possible or not.
Also you mentioned that with my mega fund pre MBA experience that make me a good candidate for post MBA PE, however do you think my experience in Asian PE is that relevant? i think the skill set is different between the U.S and mature market. I also heard some bad stories about how hard it is to get a work visa in the U.S.
Of course ideally situation will be i can relocate to US or London with my current fund, but as you know this is very political and difficult to do in reality.
Ideally i wouldnt mind moving back to London again to do HF or PE given i dont need a work visa there, so probably make things easier. But europe has been very difficult given the current weak economic situation.
Are you a EU citizen (re
Are you a EU citizen (re London visa?)
At the end of the day, you are at a megafund and while average asian PE experience might not cut it, MF PE experience will.
Visa wise, I doubt a big PE house is going to choke at the thought of a visa considering the number of international MBA students staying on to work in the US.
When do you sleep?...Sunday
I went through some of the
I went through some of the same issues that the OP did - I tried (and failed) to transfer to another office within my bank and therefore decided to go to b-school to accomplish that geographic change (long story). Based on my experience, here are my two cents with regards to your questions:
- Getting a HF job: this is certainly possible if you are at a good b-school in the US. HFs are more flexible with regards to a candidate's experience, and even though they definitely value the MBA less than PE funds, they still recruit at business schools. Furthermore, your international experience in London and Asia might actually be an advantage and a way to differentiate yourself. HFs tend to have smaller global footprints than PE funds (i.e. less offices), and therefore have a bigger tendency of covering certain far flung geographies from a central office in London or NY. This might be your ticket to getting H1-B sponsorship, which depending on whom you ask can be a major or minor issue (I know people that have gotten sponsored at smaller HF/PE funds so its not impossible, but it is a point against you).
- PE funds: I think mega-fund in the US will be tough, but not impossible because it sounds like you have a great resume. Unfortunately, it seems to me that PE is a very "local" business, which requires experience and contacts in the specific geography you are investing in (believe it or not, more so than banking and definitely more so than HFs/public markets investing). Again, you may be able to leverage your int'l experience to swing something in the States, but I think most megafunds already cover Asia via local offices. It may be easier for you to find something in London, given that you already have the visa and the IB experience there. Finally, you can try to recruit at solid middle market PE funds - these tend to be more domestic focused and might balk at sponsoring your H1-B, but brand names matter and your CV will let you at least get you through the door for interviews at many places.
- With regards to the H1-B: I am less well versed on this as of this point, but it seems to be mostly a matter of hiring a lawyer to do a bunch of paper work and paying some $3,000 - $5,000 dollars. I.e., if an employer wants to hire you, this should NOT be an issue. However, every place is different - I know certain megafunds here in NY who had a policy of not sponsoring H1-Bs for junior ppl (despite having plenty of resources to do so), though nowadays it seems like the application process is a lot easier due to lower hiring across the board (both of US workers and foreigners - this means the annual H1-B quota is only met towards the end of the Fiscal Year; in 2007 there were no H1-Bs left after the first week of applications).
- Finally, with regards to tranferring internally: every case (and firm) is different, but I had bad experiences in this regard. Its tough nowadays to transfer to London or NY because there simply isn't too much hiring. I tried to do this at my former bank and wasn't able to (like you said, politics, etc.). I think in PE its even harder based on the "local" factor I mentioned above (and also because PE investment teams tend to be much smaller than IBD teams).
Overall, if you are hell-bent on switching geographies, I would consider b-school. It is expensive, but its a terrific experience and in my (biased) opinion worth it just in that regard. However, the job search will be painful and stressful, and you are right in trying to make as informed a decision as possible.
Hopefully others can chime in based on their own experiences. Hope this helps.
Holy shit, didn't realize how
Holy shit, didn't realize how long that post was. Sorry!
Have you tried reaching out
Have you tried reaching out to some London based Headhunters directly? You might be in a position to break in directly at the pre-mba associate level in London. I know of some people that have made the move from BB/MBB in Asia/Middle East to London based PE funds (MF and mid market).
It would possibly mean a sidewards step (assuming you are already at the pre-mba associate level) but since a lot of funds in London will promote through without an MBA, that mightn't be a big concern.
Re Rumplesmoothspin: thank
Re Rumplesmoothspin: thank you for your response, i am an EU citizen, so working in London is no problem at all from a visa perspective. i am a pretty pessimistic guy in general, so let me be honest, in Asia private equity deal is typically minority investment with very few control deals. therefore although i know how LBO etc works from my European investment banking experience (where i had a lot of LBO modelling experiences), but i have never done nor looked at a buyside LBO case in Asia. I am about to close a cornerstone deal for an upcoming IPO and the equity check is about $100m and it is already consider pretty big in Asia by even mega fund standard. After considering what I have just said, what is your honest view of me landing a post MBA PE offer in the US?
re masolam: thank you for such insightful advice. I agree with you that I am not banking on the chance of moving geographically within my existing fund, chances are very small. From your analysis above, I guess it is reasonable to conclude that i am more likely to get a HF or solid mid market MM after I pursue a MBA in the US. I agree with you totally that PE is such a local business, in Asia for example, if you dont speak the language it is almost impossible for you to invest in certain countries. Based on this and the fact most megafund already has Asia local offices, i would think making into megafund post MBA for me is not likely. I also forgot to mention that if i decide to purse a 2013 MBA, that would mean i only have 1 and half year PE experiences as oppose to 2 years experience that most other ppl might have. Do you think this will work again me?
re PZ87: yes, i am trying to reach out to some old contacts in London to get into PE or HF there. Let me be honest, i have no interest in doing a MBA, the only motives for me to do one is change geography as I cannot stand the lifestyle in Asia in the long term (personal preference). However, as you probably aware the economic situation in Europe, it is not looking bright and it is hard to find jobs there. I know that MBA in Europe is not valued as highly as in the US, so i am approaching headhunters directly as well.
also guys, i am turning 26
also guys, i am turning 26 next year. Ideally as many ppl have suggested is for me to directly find a job in the US or in London without a MBA, however that would have meant i will need to do my search this year and probably miss the MBA application process for 2013. If that is the case, and i didnt find anything say until 2013, that would mean i will do my MBA in 2014 at the age of 27. is this abit too old for a MBA already??
Why are you so sure that
Why are you so sure that moving within your fund is nto possible? Have you made any inquiries?
(genuinely curious)
I really don't know how
I really don't know how recruiters / funds / etc will look at you having done 1.5 years of PE vs. 2. If I were looking at your resume, I wouldn't give a shit... plenty of ppl use the time between January/Feb bonus and the start of their b-school program to travel, and I think it's the best possible thing to do, as opposed to doing the same work for a few more months for which, in most instances, you will not get a pro-rated six month bonus anyways. That being said, you are better off listening to what others in this site have to say, or maybe actually ask this to recruiters if you think it is appropriate.
For what it's worth, before b-school I had the same anti-b-school mentality as you, but decided to get one anyways because I was dead-set on changing geographies and, to be fair, got a free-ride (making my opportunity cost much lower). After a year here, I am glad I did it, and so is every ex-PE guy I know (many of whom could have stayed in their funds). Life is short, you are young, and you have the rest of your life to chase the dollar.
On a final note, if you disagree with me re MBA, then I would recommend Europe / UK in terms of getting into a PE megafund. The economy might be shit, but you are still a junior guy, and I know plenty of ppl that have gotten into megafunds (KKR / Carlyle / Cerberus, etc) in London as IB Associates (i.e. they had no buyside experience whatsoever). Based on my experiences so far, megafund PE in the States post-MBA is extremely tough... many second years I know, with two years Pre-MBA megafund experience, have been unsuccesful in returning to megafunds.
re 09grad: i have been around
re 09grad: i have been around in the finance industry long enough to see many ppl failed to transfer overseas due to lots of reasons and it leaves you with a very difficult environment afterwards. I am not saying it is impossible, i will surely try my best to give it a shot, but what i am saying is i am not banking all my chances on it.
re masolam: i am not negative towards MBA in general but given personal finance reasons, i really cannot afford it unless i took on lots of debt and even if i do go, i cannot see i a good finance backbone to live decently enough to enjoy my time there, so that is why i am not too keen on MBA. Of course if i get a scholarship or something that will be different, i will probably go.
I see you are saying that post MBA megafund is very difficult, then what about a solid MM PE fund? do you think it is possible given my background? i.e Asia PE experience, work visa issues etc
Also do you think it is too old to go to do MBA when i am 27?
thanks.
First off, you are 100% right
First off, you are 100% right with regards to transferring offices. I tried it twice (one time it worked, barely, the second it failed and I had a horrible time afterwards... and had to work my ass off to "make it right").
Second, I see your point about the finances. The MBA is an expensive proposition, especially if you are in an expensive city or have a significant other / kids to support. A few years back ppl would have said "don't worry about it, just get a loan, you'll repay it in a few years because you have a good CV and the market will pay you well", but I don't know how confident you can be about that in this day and age.
As for PE funds in the states... I am a first year and got many many interviews for smaller funds (i.e. between 500 MM and 1.5 billion AUM). In my case, I am very interested in going to PE as a long-term career, so I would consider funds of this size with a good track record as interesting places to work in. Anything larger, I really don't know... it gets harder to be honest. I think your best bets are megafunds (PE and HF) in London/Europe, HFs in the States, and then everything else.
And no, 27 is not too old to get an MBA. The average in my school is roughly 4 to 6 years experience after undergrad, i.e. 26 to 28 years old upon entering first year.
If you have questions or would like to get more into specifics, PM me.
to the OP: An old
to the OP: An old acquaintance of mine went from a firm in the middle east to a mega fund in NYC after business school at hbs. I honestly think a lot is possible as long you are smart and have a compelling story.
re masolam: are a you first
re masolam: are a you first year MBA student? You seriously think after MBA in the US I have a good chance of getting into a mid market PE?
re 09grad: thanks for the confidence boost....i know many thing can happen if you work hard and is smart....lets see...god bless you all.
also guys, i am turning 26
[quote=Summer Intern]also guys, i am turning 26 next year. Ideally as many ppl have suggested is for me to directly find a job in the US or in London without a MBA, however that would have meant i will need to do my search this year and probably miss the MBA application process for 2013. If that is the case, and i didnt find anything say until 2013, that would mean i will do my MBA in 2014 at the age of 27. is this abit too old for a MBA already??[/quote
]
27 is not too old to start an MBA. You won't be missing the boat if you wait a year, and you could save a lot if you find you don't need the MBA.
Best,
Linda
Linda Abraham
Accepted
Founder of Accepted and author of MBA Admission for Smarties: The No-nonsense Guide to Acceptance at Top Business Schools
Linda Abraham, thank you so
Summer Intern: Linda Abraham,
Linda Abraham
Accepted
Founder of Accepted and author of MBA Admission for Smarties: The No-nonsense Guide to Acceptance at Top Business Schools
Linda, do you mind commenting
Summer Intern, I'm happy
Linda Abraham
Accepted
Founder of Accepted and author of MBA Admission for Smarties: The No-nonsense Guide to Acceptance at Top Business Schools