Who Has Heard of Ernst & Young Transfer Pricing?
Has anyone heard of the EY Transfer Pricing Group? It sounds pretty cool, like they do due dilligence and get to travel alot. Does this fall under the TAS heading, or is it something else entirely? Has anyone had any experience with it or heard anything about it? I would appreciate any sort of info, experiences to exit opps. I realize that flaming is probably inevitable, but I am truly looking for information, so I would really appreciate any constructive feedback.
thanks
transfer pricing consulting
EY explains the transfer pricing group on their corporate website. An excerpt from the description is below.
Transfer pricing is the setting of the prices that one division of a company charges another. The main motivation for "manipulating" it is for tax purposes.It's not a sexy area - you won't read much about it outside of specialist tax publications - but it is fairly interesting if you like creative finance. In my opinion, Ernst & Young is a great company to work for.
I work in TP, and as someone said before its great for delving into multinationals. You have to look at their operations, functions, and risks to see how profits should be split. Its not a science TP its an art.The most interesting work is working on planning projects. Could be the shift of Intellectual property within the firm or something like that, and it requires valuations to be done etc, and deciding strategically if its a good idea etc. Other interesting work is tax aligned supply chained stuff, shifting functions and risks around subsidiaries in the supply chain, working with consultants to get the most effective operation and aligning it with ta to ensure that taxes are kept low.
Its very interesting work, and in my opinion, is one of the best areas to work in at big 4. You really get a broad top down overview of a business. But then again most of the work you do at the low level is going to be documentation, which is comparability searches etc, and justifying the price setting. So this could be a bit boring for some.
transfer pricing salary and lifestyle
Our users shared that the base salary will be comparable with investment banking but that the bonus was miniscule.
at entry level, the pay would be approximately street base, though the bonus, if any, is likely to be very small. the work is definitely seasonal, with the tax season (sept 15) deadline, so summer is pretty busy, but nothing like what bankers would work.
User @yoruboy" shared details on pay and hours (in 2011):
I used to work as a transfer pricing analyst for a Big 4. The pay was on par with what my IB friends were getting out of college ($50k p.a). The bonus was crap (maybe about $2k). The work was, for the most part, very boring stuff. At the associate level it is all about documentation (filling out a template on things like the company description, industry description, description of the transactions under review, e.t.c). Most of this was rote stuff where you'd just go over to the company's website or check their 10-K and pretty much put down what you saw there. Industry descriptions were easy to get from places like OneSource and Data Monitor so on.The workload is pretty light compared to I-banking. Heck it doesn't even come close to I-Banking hours. Also it was highly seasonal. SO you would spend about 4 to 5 months of the year being relatively busy, and the other half PRAYING for some work to do. Associates would just buy privacy screens for their laptops and play video games all day.
Read more about Ernst & Young on the Wall Street Oasis Company Database.
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Transfer pricing is the setting of the prices that one division of a company charges another. The main motivation for "manipulating" it is for tax purposes.
It's not a sexy area - you won't read much about it outside of specialist tax publications - but it is fairly interesting if you like creative finance. I don't know specifics of pay but I would hazard that it is comparable to consultancy (so not as high as investment banking has traditionally been but better hours and more responsibility earlier on).
In my opinion, Ernst & Young is a great company to work for.
Yes. Know about E&Y's transfer pricing.
If you consider your average multinational company with more than one operating subsidiary overseas and that these subsidiaries share in the P&L of the parent, then you can appreciate transfer pricing. Most countries have established some type of transfer pricing rule - usually enforced by a local tax authority. What I think is intriguing is the complexity of some of the transactions. In some cases, transfer pricing professionals work with a company such as Toyota and they'll do a deep dive into all of Toyota's businesses to determine the type of "remuneration" that the subsidiary should pay to the parent for the use of licenses, tradenames, advertising, customer relationships etc. A lot of the work in transfer pricing is tax based in that you are dealing with tax regulatory authorities in the parent country and subsidiary country and these are almost always in conflict with each other. Complex international tax matters could significantly impact a company's P&L. There are lots of transfer pricing professionals working in Big 4 and there are a significant number of Big Law firms expanding their transfer pricing practices (usually part of a Corporate/Securities/International Tax practice) to compete with some of the due diligence work that is traditionally done by the accounting firms.
Basic premise of transfer pricing work is similar to Income, Market, Transaction approaches used in corporate finance. Except the perspective that transfer pricing specialists have is one of an "arm's length" and "related party" transaction.
The only reason I have some familiarity with transfer pricing is because a lot of law school friends wound up in tax practices in "Big Law" or are using their JD commercially in the Big 4 within international transfer pricing practices such as Deloitte, E&Y etc.
Hope this helps.
a buddy of mine works for KPMG-Boston doing transfer pricing...
i am not sure what his comp is now... but 3 years back he was at 80k base (not sure of bonus).... at the time he had about 2 or 3 years experience.
the job is very seasonal... working around the clock during tax season.
at entry level, the pay would be approximately street base, though the bonus, if any, is likely to be very small. the work is definitely seasonal, with the tax season (sept 15) deadline, so summer is pretty busy, but nothing like what bankers would work.
a question i had for others in the forum concerned potential mba options after doing tp for a few years, versus a banking job. is being a leader in a less respected function, like tax, better than being in the middle of the analyst crowd at an investment bank? i am concerned that if i make the move to ibanking, i won't stand out as much as i currently do---will this hurt my mba application, or does the challenging role / job recognition make up for it?
You're going about it the wrong way... the job itself - TP or IB - isn't going to guarantee your admission into B-school. I've known plenty of CSFB analysts who didn't get into a top tier b-school and I know a woman from a not-for-profit background who did! Go figure that?
Remember, with an MBA application it's your complete profile - i.e. Undergrad grades, GPA / GMAT / professional experience / reference letters / admissions interviews / essays etc.
--
Hey!
No, Transfer Pricing people dont travel a lot..at the Senior Manager level, maybe once a month at most and at Consultant level, once in 2 months.You do lot of stuff, which is similar to Investment banking like due diligence, data scrubbing, comp searches but its lot less pay and lot less hours...I have worked in Ibanking before, and now work in Transfer Pricing in a Big 4...now they are hiring a lot of people, so you have a great chance of getting in...feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions...
I work in TP, and as someone said ebfore its great for delving into multinationals. You have to look at their operations, functions, and risks to see how profits should be split. Its nota science TP its an art.
The most interesting work is working on planning projects. Could be the shift of Intellectual property within the firm or soemthing like that, and it requires valuiations to be done etc, and deciding strategically if its a good idea etc. Other interesting work is tax aligned supply chained stuff, shifting functions and risks around subsidiaries in the supply chaiin, working with consultants to get the most effective operation and aligning it with ta to ensure that taxes are kept low.
Its very interesting work, and in my opinion is one of the best areas to work in at big 4.You really get a broad top down overview of a business.
Ive been doing it for over six months and its true there is not much travel (personally i dont want to do much anyway). I do it in europe, most of the travel is out to the clients office in your home coutnry every now and then, and then there is some other. But ive done a couple of trips to client operations around europe and its been great, learning a lot.
But then again most of the work you do at the low level is going to be documentation, which is comparability searches etc, and justifying the price setting. So this could be a bit boring for some.
This post is coming so very late, but it might actually help someone.
I used to work as a transfer pricing analyst for a Big 4. The pay was on par with what my IB friends were getting out of college ($50k p.a). The bonus was crap (maybe about $2k). The work was, for the most part, very boring stuff. At the associate level it is all about documentation (filling out a template on things like the company description, industry description, description of the transactions under review, e.t.c). Most of this was rote stuff where you'd just go over to the company's website or check their 10-K and pretty much put down what you saw there. Industry descriptions were easy to get from places like OneSource and Data Monitor so on.
The workload is pretty light compared to I-banking. Heck it doesn't even come close to I-Banking hours. Also it was highly seasonal. SO you would spend about 4 to 5 months of the year being relatively busy, and the other half PRAYING for some work to do. Associates would just buy privacy screens for their laptops and play video games all day.
To me, it was boring, repetitive work. You won't really learn much finance and you will probably end up with a limited set of skills.
^While entitled to your opinion, TP these days is very very different. Documentation work is not that common these days, and when it is done it is much more sophisticated transaction analysis than in the past.
Hi,
Thanks very much for this comment. It help me to think about my ideals.
Tks again and pls keep posting.
Apart from that, you also can ref more resources at: Pricing analyst interview questions
Best rgs
At the big 4, TP folks get paid more than auditors but less than advisory/consultants. You have to be a manager to break through 100k. entry level is closer to low $50'sk.
bump. any more recent info on this?
good job - no prestige
Prestige? In relation to what? Most aren't trying to go from transfer pricing to IB/PE/HF.
Hi there, it seems that there are some experienced tp practitioners here!
Could anyone give some references about current compensation in the USA for TP with 3-4 years experience? I guess it depends on the city you're leaving, but I'm trying to figure out how is the market in the main places (NY, Chicago,etc...) I've been doing financial transactions transfer pricing since 2012 and considering to move to the USA.
Have an interview coming up for EY Transfer pricing. can anyone offer some advice/insight? Also what's compensation like these days?
Thanks.
There is a transfer pricing AMA in which you can see (bottom) someone that recently got hired by EY TP.
I did this for 3years, just switched. PM me if you want.
Cheers
Transfer Pricing Consulting to equity research or other finance roles (Originally Posted: 09/08/2008)
I was offered a Transfer Pricing consultant job at one of the Big 4 firms. From reading the job description, the role seems pretty interesting and from talking with people in the field, it seems as though a lot of the work one does as a junior is similar to those in the finance industry (industry and company analysis, economic analysis, data scrubbing, modeling, etc).
Although I am looking forward to this job, I am also kind of worried about my exit opps if I stay in the industry too long. One thing that many people have warned me about is that Transfer Pricing is a very niche area and one person compared it to having "golden handcuffs"; the work is fairly interesting, the pay is on the high side at the Big 4 firms, and the hrs are fairly good, but because of the specialized nature of the field, exit opps could be limiting.
Now I know that I am only a college student, and that I may have a very naive view of things, but I think that my true desire is to get into equity research. Being able to analyze and follow stock as well as give my own investment advice seems like a job that would be exciting. Also, the potential pay in finance is much better than consulting at a Big 4.
If I can I would like to use my opportunity at the Big 4 firm to get my CPA, possibly a CFA, and lateral into equity research. Do you guys think this is possible? Any advice that you guys could give me?
Thanks.
Would be good to see it and compare.
Unrelated, Big 4 provides decent exit opps. May not be PE or BB right off the bat, but at least some Mezz, debt, and boutiques...
Are you in TP still? Did you explore your exit ops?
Anyone in TP or used to be in TP here? I'm curious about exit ops as well.
I work in TP at PwC. Been here about 3 years. Got my MBA while working there, they paid it 100% as long as I agreed to work there for 2 more years.
Exit ops are really fantastic. TP is getting a lot of heat these days with new OECD regs. A friend of mine left to become a financial analyst in LA and another left for consulting at Citi in NYC. These people worked in TP for 1 year before they got hounded by recruiters. Hell, I'd leave too if I wasn't under contract. Good work but exit ops are phenomenal especially if you have a grad degree
I am not in TP but I was given an offer earlier this year and this is a question I definitely thought about. I ended up turning it down because of other opportunities but I did have the chance to talk to a couple people in TP.
It seems like you do have a fair amount of options for b-school, and 1 guy I talked to from KPMG is going to Haas next year. I can't really speak to opps outside of TP like in IB or whatever, as it does seem like many people choose to stay in the industry.
Transfer pricing to IBD / Transaction services (Originally Posted: 09/30/2008)
Anyone here know much about transfer pricing?
Im starting a job at a big 4 doing it. I wanted to know if its a good profession that can be used as a stepping stone to move into IBD/ Transaction services as form what I understand a lot of the wrok involves industry analysis, comparables, data scrubbing, valuation etc?
in a good market..sure why not.
im not familiar with transfer pricing, but if it is what you mentioned, then why IB/TAS?
Just jump straight to PE if thats why u wanted to do banking/valuation consulting/TAS in the first place.
Transfer pricing is in no way similar to IB.
a lot of the skills are tranferable I have been told. But yes obviously the two aspects of the job are very different
Not sure who told you that you would do those things. I did Transfer Pricing at PwC for part of a summer, and it has none of those things. It is data entry and reading through financials or tax returns, little to no tranferable skills. Can you transfer over to Transaction Services? Sure, after a CPA they let people transfer, but I would imagine a transfer to IBD is much harder.
Told I would do industry and comparable analysis, things like that.
And I mean say a company contributes an oil rig to a subsidiary Cross Border, this needs to be valued I assume, and this is where valuation skills would come in I imagine?
what i want to know is - how did you get the job if you had no idea what you'd be doing?
hhhaha, im an awesome bullshi**ER. im good at winging it
if uve already started Transfer Pricing at the big4 since ur last post, could you please reflect on ur experiences so far?
Is it what you expected as per your first statement: "..as form what I understand a lot of the wrok involves industry analysis, comparables, data scrubbing, valuation etc?"
I'm starting as a TP grad analyst in July, hence any first-hand insight would be appreciated :) thanks
I worked in TS at a big 4 and had some exposure to the transfer pricing guys. It won't be much like banking, but i think you will get a decent education in overall financial statement analysis and business understanding. You basically try to figure out if intercompany prices are fair (at market value). My suggestion to get to banking. Transfer to TS in 1-2 years (they're not busy now with the M&A market anyway), then go back for your MBA after 2 years in TS. From there, you can jump into banking from a top 5-10 school.
Thanks Mr. Teeny for your last post.
Other insights are much appreciated...
JP Morgan Finance vs. EY Transfer Pricing Consultant (Originally Posted: 11/14/2008)
So I got a offer from JP Morgan in its finance division and also an offer from Ernst and Young in its Transfer Pricing group. Both positions are for a foreign office.
From my research, Transfer Pricing seems fairly interesting but could be limiting in terms of exit opps. JP Morgan has a more prestigious name and I get to take part in a 3 yr rotational leadership program (similar to FMP of GE?), but it is back office so it may be that the work would be a little boring.
As of now I want to be able to use my accounting skills (I like accounting) and actually like the work that I do. Which offer in your guys' opinion is better?
JPM finance, for sure. like you said, JPM has a more prestigious name. plus, even if your initial role isn't as interesting, you have a rotational program. furthermore, your thoughts regarding "back office" work are probably misplaced anyways when you compare to E&Y transfer pricing, since JPM back office "finance" is probably comparable to E&Y front office "transfer pricing." remember, functional roles are the important point of comparison.
OK, so almost every person I asked this question replied by saying that JP would be the better offer. What are typical exit opps after a rotational program such as this (doesn't have to be banking per se)?
People in the finance program generally stay in the finance program and move up. You'd be aligned with the CFO of a business, so that's your path. If you want to look at external exit ops, I think you'd really only be able to move to the finance department of another large corporate. This would depend largely on the group within finance though I suppose--some lines of business require the finance people to have intimate product knowledge so it makes the jump to the front office (in that line of business) more possible.
How would you compare this opportunity to Big 4 audit? Do you think those that lateraled after a Big 4 audit stint will get a promotion over me down the road when shooting for controller, CFO, etc down the road?
I'd choose EY. Transfer pricing is more interesting and challenging than the dull corporate finance you'd do at JPM. Aside from that, there's more opportunity for movement within EY than JPM in your case. Your exit ops are not as big as you think coming out of JPM, and purely relying on the name is like saying you'd rather trade equities in Dallas for Goldman than do fixed income for Citi in New York. Name only goes so far, and I would advise you to read the job description carefully before making that decision. Otherwise, you'll find yourself a couple of years down the line with zero opportunities outside the vertical, slow ascend in corporate finance.
I always had the impression that these finance rotational programs expose you to modeling and other skills that are transferable to an analyst stint. Also, wouldn't these programs be decent feeders to business schools?
There is no modeling in back office finance, lots of excel, but you'd be working with pivot tables etc., not a DCF. Lots of data management, lots of analyzing numbers and perhaps finding drivers, the only forecasting you would do would be based off of budget plans.
Not sure about being feeders to bschools. The rotational program may offer some interesting experiences that could prove attractive to some schools, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of kids in the finance program going into top schools.
i wonder how the bschool factor plays out--just thinking about it, while finance positions in ibanks are well-paying etc, you'll probably be considered 2nd tier to the front office analysts by bschools. these are the people you'll be compared against...
on the other hand, E&Y transfer pricing probably puts you in an entirely different category, so you probably wouldn't be competing with the ibankers but with other types of people. bschools don't just look for finance types, after all.
I've heard both place well.
Oh yea, Transfer Pricing is legitimate front office work. Every person I've talked to loves their job in TP, making this decision hard for me.
How do rotational programs such as these compare with Big4 Audit in terms of career progression within corporate finance? I always had the impression that there's nothing better in corporate finance then a stint in Big4.
Also, what would salary progression be like for the finance division? I know that Transfer Pricing is among the best-paying divisions within EY (probably will hit 6 figures in 5-6yrs).
Hi lionheart,
Can you complete your thread and let everyone know what you decided to do and why you chose it?
What are you doing now and how were your prospects for b-school.
Thanks
Hi Lionheart,
If you're still around... I'm facing a similar dilemma. What did you end up doing/ any advice?
Thanks
Transfer Pricing to IB (Originally Posted: 02/28/2009)
Hi,
I got an offer as a graduate analyst in global transfer pricing at a big four firm from mid 2009. I am completing an accounting and applied finance double degree with a gpa of 3.8/4.0 for this degree. I worked as an intern for two big four audit firms- auditing (financial services) and Corporate and International Tax.
I ideally want to get into investment banking (i.e. a foot in the door).
1) What exactly will I be doing within transfer pricing? 2) How closely related is it to finance? 3) What are the career prospects within tp? 4) How easy will it be for me to move into corporate finance or an investment bank? 5) Which area within investment banking am I best positioned to apply for based on my experience?
Any comments and insights are awesomely appreciated (esp from those who have experience in this field)!!
thanks
you didn't know what you'd be doing and got an offer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing
great. congrats.
Doesn't look anything like IB.
The world has changed. And we must change with it.
Looks interesting, though as Cornelius said, not really relevant to IB.
probably more relevant for corporate finance than IB, I'd imagine. You could probably go transfer pricing -> corporate finance -> bschool -> ibd
Thanks for the comments so far =)
I initially didn't even know the area existed within tax. I was offered the position through my most recent internship at a big four within Corporate and International Tax. The partner offered me a role before the internship ended and said he was impressed with my knowledge of the market (along with the fact that im completing an applied finance and accounting degree) and wanted me in Transfer Pricing. The director then broadly explained that it involves application of finance, looking up stock prices, bloomberg, economics, research, documentation, calculating 'arms length' transfer prices, compliance- basically it being the most finance based role within tax. On the contrary, i'm not sure if they may have 'beefed' up the job description to make it sound more like finance than tax....
Given the state of the market, I accepted the offer on the fact that a) having a job vs none during current times is certainly a bonus, and b) it involves finance and could be an excellent stepping stone to ib or corporate finance (hopefully!)
I know what transfer pricing is, but my main concern is what people on this forum have actually experienced within transfer pricing (or know those within the area). What are the career prospects within this niche area? Will it be of significant help in obtaining a role at an ib?
Comments are much appreciated!
thanks
comments please...
hi, this isn't what you want to hear but its not really relevant at all you should aim to work hard and get a top10/m7/etc MBA a few years later
Its relevant.
Problem is people in IB wont realise it ason here, therefore it is irrelevant.
I’ve done valuation work. Yes, the work itself is very relevant. DCFs, market approaches & powerpoints out the ass. However, it is highly unlikely to lead to IB without getting an MBA.
Why doesn’t transfer pricing lead to IB despite the transferable skill set? Because one can attain a transfer pricing job without knowing what the fuck transfer pricing is, as the op has proved.
You have done TP buysideCFA?
Also a lot of people in TP do CFA program, thats got to help. I am gunning for level 3 in june, cant be bothered though!!
You have done TP buysideCFA?
Also a lot of people in TP do CFA program, thats got to help. I am gunning for level 3 in june, cant be bothered though!!
I worked for a small independent valuation shop (lots of ex Big 4 ts). Did 141/142 work (Enterprise valuations and intangible asset valuations).
Most people in valuation tend to stay in valuation forever. You don’t need an MBA to advance and you make solid money.
Our clients were big PE shops and F500 companies. We didn’t really work for banks so it was tough to make banking contacts.
I personally believe that someone with a year or 2 of TS experience could be an immediate contributor in M&A. However, banks would rather hire a graduating senior from an Ivy league school.
To me valuation work is one of the core elements of an IBer isnt it?? Surely it should be valued if you have that experience
In this thread, insecure transfer pricing back office monkeys try to convince another transfer pricing back office monkey in order to avoid his own realization and repressed thoughts of being utterly screwed and pidgeonholed in life.
Next!
1styear banker, eat my sh*t
1) Uhh, I'm in AM - my lifelong ambition.
2) "try to convince another transfer pricing back office monkey in order to avoid his own realization and repressed thoughts of being utterly screwed and pidgeonholed in life. "
If you burn someone, use proper grammar. A nonsensical, gibberish sentence just makes you look stupid.
this is the first post I remember seeing on WSO my senior year in high school 2 years later I'm on here 24/7. don't even know how the fuck i got on this post. transfer pricing is worse than accounting.
transfer pricing exit ops (Originally Posted: 04/29/2009)
Is anyone here in or better yet previously been in a transfer pricing position?
I am wondering what exit ops are available.
It is a great job, where you get to learn alot about multinationals and the industry and how they operate, functions, risks etc.
Also lots of financial work etc. And writing memos and planning etc.
So I am just wondering what possibilities there are.
Like I would love to move in a couple of years into VC, or maybe PE or ibanking if possible.
^Bump
I'm curious as well. Anyone?
Also curious, also do people currently in transfer pricing get a lot of international/ex-pat assignments? I think it would be a nice way to get to see the world...
big4 Transfer Pricing vs big4 bank (Finance) (Originally Posted: 05/09/2009)
Hi all,
I am in my final semester of Accounting and Applied Finance with a GPA of 3.8/4.0 for this degree.
I have accepted a grad offer within Transfer Pricing at a big4.
Given the conditions of the financial markets (and soaring unemployment), I applied elsewhere even though I already have a job waiting for me this July. I did this because I know of people whom accepted offers, only later told they were rescinded because of the crisis.
I have one application which is still active as I have reached the final round- ironically, Behavioral Event Interview. This is a grad rotation program starting in Feb next year within Finance at a big4 bank.
My concerns are as follows (if I receive an offer at the bank):
1) Will this create a problem/ conflict with big4 audit firm and big4 bank?
2) Is there a possibility that the TP offer will be rescinded because I already accepted their offer, but seeking employment elsewhere?
3) Which is better between the two in moving into an investment bank down the line? Which offers better career prospects?
I am definitely starting the big4 TP role in July and was thinking of asking to move into corporate finance towards the end of the year, and if they refuse then move to the bank within their Finance grad program.
Is this smart play or really risky dumb-founding (aka stupid and potentially regretful) play?
Thank you for your input in advance!!
I work in Tp for a big 4 and like it a lot.
I think you are looking to move to soon once you start Tp. ok fair enough if you can move internally into corporate finance thats fine. Having said that, corporate finance departments of msot big 4s are pretty slowa tthe moment considering. They may pickup at the end of this year, but doubtful it will be enough. buut I think changing firms after 6 months from a pretty good job is madness. But hey, its your life
Thanks balooshi.
Re the Finance position at the bank, the final interview is this Wednesday.
Should I withdraw my application? Should I just go anyways, hoping that they dont ask me about other offers/etc?
Also, since I did a summer analyst stint at the big4 within Corp Tax, would the bank call up the big4 as a point of reference? If so, there's bound to be conflict...
I understand completely what you mean, and I absolutely love the culture and work at the big4. I applied mainly because I was worried about them rescinding my graduate offer, and since I graduate in 2 months, I would have to wait at least 1.5 years before entering another grad program (apply in March-May period next year, and potentially start in Feb the following year!!!)
This is merely a means to hedging my career..... I am in a sticky situation... please advise asap~
I dont think tis very sticky. You have an offer. Its unlikely tehy will rescind, particular is TP. This is an area, if not growing at the moment, certainly not suffering the contraction of otehr departments. Who knows maybe they will delay your start date, but I havent heard of any big4s in aus rescinding grad offers as of yet.
By the way, its hard to get into grad programs in australia after more than 1 year experience, as you are no longer considered a grad. While not impossible, definately harder.
And hedge by all means go to the MLC interview. I suspect working in MLC finance is working in a financial controller type position? or rather the career progression is working up to that? Go to it see what happens, if you get the job, then you are in a stick situation as you ahve to decide what you want. If not, well you got the big4 offer, and you dont have to make a decision so you are set.
I've decided to go with the big4 commercial bank option within their Finance Graduate Program (in their wealth management arm).
Main reasons for this choice for those whom are interested in the update: 1) Pay is much higher (at least 10k difference) 2) Breaking into the banking industry (even though commercial banking) with financial services experience/ exposure 3) Finance vs Tax - the former wins hands-down in terms of where I want to go in the long-term (Chartered Accountants program and CFA) 4) Very prestige role at the big4 bank (intake of 2/500 apps) with high-performance culture 5) I believe it will provide a much better opportunity to move into ib or other investments-type role down the track once i've built up experience
I'm really happy with this decision.
Good luck with the choice mate.
One thing is you know lots of TP professionals do CFA.
Sounds like a decent gig since you probably get to rotate around.
What exactly is finacne in the wealth management arm by the way?
It is basically working on investments, unit pricing, distribution and financial analysis- i.e. "full-on" finance (according to HR). Lots of excel training and the like.
One rotation is in investment control and the other is in decision support (12 months each).
After speaking to people whom worked there, it is a really good opportunity and many whom go through it have actuarial, finance, banking and commerce backgrounds.
I'm sure the exit opportunities, when applying for ib or investment-type roles, are much better through this Finance Program rather than through Tax (even though TP is a little more economics-inclined).
I have rejected TP, and feel confident about my decision. I hope everything works out well.
Big4 bank (non ib) vs Big4 Transfer Pricing (Originally Posted: 05/14/2009)
Hi all,
Please let me know your thoughts on which of the two offers I should pursue in terms of long-term career prospects, and in helping me move towards an investment bank role down the line.
1) I received an offer from a big4 bank (not ib) within their wealth management arm (globally reputable) as part of their Finance Graduate Program.
From what I was told, this role is 'full-on' finance and involves unit pricing, superannuation, investments, forecasting, distribution analysis, accounting, etc. It doesn't appear to involve international transactions.
The total pay package (incl. super) is $55k + 2.5% short-term incentive.
2) I also received another offer, but within transfer pricing at a big4 firm (eg PwC, Deloitte, etc) as part of their Graduate Program (tax services).
From what I was told, this role involves determining/ valuing fair-value of arm's length inter-company (and cross-border) transactions, economic analysis of different tax jurisdictions, financial statement analysis, comparable company analysis (to find similar firms to help with pricing of those transactions), tax, etc.
The total pay package (incl. super) is $46k.
I am heavily leaning towards option 1 as it is 'full-on finance', but from talking with a few others (esp on this forum), I have been told transfer pricing is a very good career option that should not be overlooked.
Please let me know which option you think is best from the above, as would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm guessing this is in Australia...
Anyways $46k for Big Four TP??? They must be low-balling you, even accountants get paid more than 46k..
Yeah... its in Aussie.
Big4 TP is interstate, hence the lower salary. I know tax grads in my state starting on 50-55k.
On face-value, which do you think is the better option?
I need to make the decision by next week.... and my mind is saying take both, but I can only choose one..... which to pick???
What did you choose and how did it turn out?
transfer pricing to... PE? (Originally Posted: 07/21/2009)
Hi all,
I am a transfer pricing consultant at a big4.
Im just wondering here if its somewhat possible after some years of experience to transfer into something like PE.
I think the work done in TP is little known, and in my opinion could be quite possible.
Firstly the work invloves a lot of industry analysis, heavy focus on analysis of business's operations, functions and risks from a high level, valuations (normally of intangibles but others too), etc.
So I am just wondering if people think what the chances of this is at some stage down the track?
Chances are slim (as they are for everyone based solely on supply/demand) but I would network as much as possible and find a good headhunter. The problem is that PE shops run lean businesses as it is and you will be competing against applicants from more traditional tracks/backgrounds (i.e. IB/industry).
big 4 transfer pricing (Originally Posted: 10/01/2009)
I have a B.A. in Economics and a minor in bus management from uc schools(target school for big4) and currently I'm in a master of business taxation prgram at the target school. I wanted to pursue TP (study abroad experience got me interested in multinational transactions) and one of the reason why I chose to go back to school for tax degree was to break into big 4 (if not directly into tp, my plan was to start with tax).
Given the market, I have a slim chance of getting into tax practice. Then, I found out that PwC and Deloitte are hiring for TP. Now, my concern is my B.A. gpa is 3.3 and 3.3 for tax as well. I do not have prior experience in TP but I have some research experiences during college (mainly economic, linear regression analysis and market research).
1) generally speaking as a first time associate, are people more likely to have just bachelor's degree in econ/finance/accounting? having a tax degree is a plus?
2) With 3.3 gpa, is it enough to get an interview? (I think gpa was the factor that I did not get some of tax jobs)
3)I'm assuming that not a lot of students know about TP, is there a high competition? I have a contact in TP at big 4 and would that make any difference?(suggestions for using resources)
Your answers would be appreciated. If this doesn't work out, I would have to stick with mid-tier tax jobs for awhile.
It took three years for someone to comment on your thread. Did you get an interview with your low GPA and tax focused masters?
Big 4 Transfer pricing (Originally Posted: 07/21/2010)
hey guys...
wanted to know your thoughts on a job prospect... it's in the tranfer pricing dept for a Big 4
any insight/exit ops/type of work/ etc... opinions/thoughts
thanks bean
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/transfer-pricing-the-real-story
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/transfer-pricing-to-ib
I've been wondering the same thing myself...
I think this sums it up best:
"G'day
I'm a TP economist with a PhD and it is a pretty simple task really. The economics of TP is readily understood, the actual depth of theory you will need to apply is not too deep, and your main challenge will come through gaining the right understanding of the economic circumstances of the businesses and transactions you are dealing with and how to fit them into the TP framework.
In terms of boring well, no, actually it is not boring. Like any job there are repetitive parts and tasks associated with it, and there are always junior economists and assistants to take on those parts once you are familiar with them yourself. This would leave you (about 6 months down the track) being concerned only with the interesting and complex aspects of TP, managing and directing juniors (always looks good on any CV), and building networks in and around the accounting and large business world.
In the non-government sector you need to ask yourself what you want from your career; TP will let you apply your economics, build networks within the TP/Tax profession, and you will find that you will grasp the job quite readily. The challenging part of the TP job is working with/against national taxation authorities and their TP experts, lining your knowledge against theirs and having multi million dollar tax liabilities of your clients riding on the outcome YOU obtain. In addition, TP is a growing field (in particular in financials and IP) so if you are good at what you do and prepared to put in the time, partnership in a Big 4 firm is not an unrealistic expectation.
For an exit in 2 to 3 years you would be looking at government TP / Taxation employment (around A$100k with reasonable track record) that could leverage to senior management if you stay the course; employment in large global enterprise as an in house TP expert (big bucks here but very narrow focus); setting up your own external economics consultancy based on TP (TP would be the bread and butter work, you can then leverage into other areas); or you could even just stay in one of the Big 4 and shift to management / partner stream - then the whole world of upper management etc opens up.
Honestly, as a first job out of Masters with one of the Big 4 in Europe you can't go too wrong with this. With plans to exit in 2 to 3 years you won't get too narrow, and it will give you a good start to your career.
Ciao "
-econjobrumors economist 8821
Transfer Pricing - Anyone familiar? (Originally Posted: 01/20/2011)
Anyone familiar with transfer pricing? Are exit ops pretty much restricted to the Big 4?
Transfer pricing is the devils' work. Don't do it.
I have definitely seen people go from TP to MM IB. It's tough and you have to network hard. Lots of transferable skills, but you have to convince someone you're not an accountant since you have a big 4 name on your resume.
If you're in it/plan to go into it, get out after 2 years and don't stay longer.
why the devils work? It would be with a niche consulting firm. not big 4. I just thought big 4 probably is the only major firms needing TP
If we're talking outside of the Big 4, then exit ops drop way off. Which firm?
It's hiding corporate income tax from the Feds. Legalized tax evasion - outside of a recission expert at a large healthcare provider it's the most dishonest white collar job out there.
Transfer Pricing Consultant (Originally Posted: 04/02/2012)
Hi, I saw a listing for a Transfer Pricing Consultant through one of the Big 4 firms in a foreign country. Can someone help my n00b self and give me a quick rundown on what exactly a Transfer Pricing Consultant would do?
Thanks!
Help use transfer pricing to minimize tax consequences for companies
So what exactly is transfer pricing...yes I'm a noob haha
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/transferprice.asp#axzz1qrzHJjiG
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-transfer-pricing.htm
When A Co sells to a subsidiary firm B Co, it has a few options regarding how much to sell for. Variable cost, cost plus, market rate, etc.
Figuring out how much to price stuff at is, essentially, transfer pricing.
Transfer Pricing - How is comp? (Originally Posted: 01/18/2013)
Anyone know about this group at the big 4? I've heard it's one of the more competitive groups, but does it pay just like any other accounting position? Thanks.
I got an offer with a big 4 transfer pricing. My experience was that each office of a firm was different. The office my offer was in primarily served the auto industry (it was in the midwest). I believe most financial services transfer pricing is out of NY (at least in the US). Not sure about pay once you rise up a bit, but the offer I got from the federal government was significantly better than the transfer pricing gig. I also know that it can get a bit repetitive after a while. You can only learn so much and it becomes pretty boring, from what others in the field have said.
Not a bad career to get into honestly. I almost chose that route.
Big 4 Transfer Pricing vs TAS (Originally Posted: 07/18/2013)
Can anyone provide insight on both of these career paths? Exit ops, Work/Life balance, compensation, career progression, daily responsibilities, etc.
Trying to learn as much as possible about non-Audit/Tax Big 4 positions
I'm always happy to help with Big 4 questions (I was an unfortunate auditor) but I would suggest taking a look over at goingconcern.com, they get a lot of that type of question. Maybe someone can help, but you'll find pretty substantive answers over there. FWIW, if a finance-related gig is your goal, I'd go w/ TAS.
Big 4 Transaction Services starts you out around $55k (maybe 10% more in NY/SF). You may be eligible for a credential bonus of $5k in your first year if you do the CPA or CFA. There are also small bonuses paid out a couple times a year ($2k or so).
Lifestyle is pretty good most of the year (45 hours/week or so), but can be bad during busy season (70+ from Jan.-April).
Responsibilities for some work is very similar to IB (building DCFs, putting together comp. sets, doing reports in PowerPoint). Other work involves reviewing valuations performed by competing firms to support your firm's audit practice. This work is mind-numbing and provides little (if any value) to anyone. On the plus side, it's easy.
Big 4 is also good because they give you a lot of time to learn and are patient; less intense than IB. The skill set is transferable to a lot of areas (IB, corp. fin. analyst, etc.).
I interned at TP at a Big 4 firm. PM me for details.
How to break into Transfer Pricing at Big 4? (Originally Posted: 08/07/2013)
Thanks for reading!
If you think I should be posting this question someplace else I would appreciate the reference to another forum!!
The short on my education: ~3.8 UGRAD Business: Pre-Law ~3.8 MBA: Finance ~3.0 JD: Tax/Business Focused (School doesn't off specializations)
Experience: -Still in school till May '14 (JD/MBA) -Working for a small business/tax firm -Interned with a judge -Ran a small business for a year
Future Ed: -Would be ok with getting a CPA and/or Tax LLM once I get my foot inside the door to progress further.
Where at? I live near Baton Rouge/New Orleans, Louisiana. Would be open to staying put or moving to Texas or Alabama.
What i'm looking to do: Transfer Pricing - Really looking hard into this right now. Seems perfect for my strengths with a nice blend to law, tax, economics, and business. Something else? Think i'm fit for something else? Please tell me!
Exits? Dont exit and progress 3-5yrs LLM program --> Back to Law 3-5yrs ? ? ?
Thanks for the help!!
The easiest way would be going through your campus recruiting process or asking a big 4 recruiter specifically about this group. As a niche area of practice your interest will carry you far. Our office follows a typical recruiting schedule with a new class during the summer. Off season hires account for a small number, usually winter grads.
The majority of exits have been back to school including MSF, MBA, and law. Our office has been placing pretty well in all three categories. Let me know if you have any questions and best of luck.
Big 4 Transfer Pricing SA -> Consulting FT? (Originally Posted: 11/13/2013)
I just heard back from one of the Big 4 for a summer internship in transfer pricing. It's in one of the big offices (not NY, but think Chicago, Boston, etc.). The issue is that the offer basically has a 2 week deadline and I don't know if I should just accept it and take a shot at the absolute fuckfest that is FT recruiting for next year.
My big worry is that coming from transfer pricing, which is in tax, won't be viewed that favorably, and I understand the importance of summer internships leading to full-time offers in consulting. I definitely would've accepted a consulting gig from the Big 4 but transfer pricing? I'm really having conflicting thoughts.
Of course the Big 4 name is well known and I know transfer pricing does lead to some transferable skills that, but I'm mainly worried about transfer pricing's perception for consulting.
Thoughts? Thanks in advance. Comp package was ok.
Edit: Also, any thoughts on McGladrey consulting? How would the perception of McGladrey consulting vs Big 4 transfer pricing compare for MBB?
Depends the type of companies you're looking for. I did an Audit internship, and did not get much look at Tier 2 firms, but then did a follow-up internship in Transaction Services (which I imagine is a specialized Assurance group, much like Transfer Pricing is for Tax), and that got me a few interview spots. Nothing like MBB, but I know I was better off then without it.
Also, you'll just need to shape your story really well to to switch from nto consulting, but that goes without saying.
Thanks, do you have an opinion about the last bit I mentioned about McGladrey?
I don't know much about McGladrey consulting. I would say if you want to do consulting, then do something thats directly related, So McGladrey Consulting > PwC Transfer Pricing. Prestige comes into play during recruitment and I know nothing of McGladrey so, I cannot speak on their behalf.
Exit to REPE / REIT from Big4 Transfer Pricing? (Originally Posted: 12/11/2013)
I have an offer standing for an entry level transfer pricing position at a Big 4, and I know one of the senior manager's has a lot of REIT clients. I didn't have the balls to ask him about exit ops in the interview but...
Is it possible to exit from TP into REPE or a REIT? Maybe TP --> MBA --> REPE/ REIT?
TP is a newer/ lesser known field, so I'm having a hard time finding a lot of information about career options/ exit ops. Any and all comments are extremely helpful.
I don't know about transfer pricing, but I made the switch from Big4 audit to REIT acquisitions.
Thanks for the response, that's good to know. Did you get your CPA or MBA before making the switch?
I had my CPA and MS in Accounting (both of which I got before I started at Big4)
I wouldn't recommend Big4 if you're ultimate goal is REPE. RE brokerage shops give you the best opportunity. How? You will see more deal flow at CBRE than E&Y.
Will it be impossible to go from Big4 to REPE? No. You will just have a higher chance if you start off at a brokerage shop.
First time poster long time reader. Acquisitionsguy how easy was it to exit from Big 4 audit to REIT acquisitions. Currently in audit at a top 10 firm (BDO size) and considering making a move to PwC RE audit. Any insight you would be able to provide would be helpful.
The switch from Big 4 to REIT acquisitions was a combination of being in the right place at the right time/having a very robust Excel and modeling background/auditing a RE portfolio while at the Big 4.
But are you looking to go from BDO/GT audit to PwC audit? If so, that is not terribly difficult. I've seen multiple people do that with little to no problem. But going from Big 4 audit to acquisitions is much more difficult. If you're going the acquisitions route, I'd recommend taking the Breaking Into Wall Street REIT and RE Modeling course (I'm not affiliated with them) and doing anything else to bolster your modeling skills and to show your interest in RE. Taking an Argus course wouldn't hurt either.
Transfer Pricing Consultant at Big 4 - AMA (Originally Posted: 11/21/2014)
Hi all,
Thought I'd so a post concerning transfer pricing at the big 4 as I notice a lot of people post on here asking about transfer pricing as quite frankly, most people don't know what it is!
I did it for about 4 years at 2 different Big 4 accounting firms, so can give you a lot of information around it. I also worked in 2 different locations US & EUROPE, in that time, so can give experience from both sides of the pond. I also became a Charterholder of the Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) in that time, as if you work heavily on the financial analysis side of transfer pricing, the experience is acceptable. I no longer work in transfer pricing.and transitioned into another Big 4 service line and since then into corp dev.
It's quite a diverse niche area, but it has a lot of skills that you can pickup if you can get on the right projects. For example of done a tonne of DCF's and other valuations for companies and intangibles, plenty of debt analysis work, etc etc.
So go ahead, and ask away. I don't expect this to get too big as its a niche area, but its a growing one, and a lot of people get offers and want to know their options and more about it. So if you want to know about the actual work, the firms, the opportunities, the career progression and exit opps and anything else just ask.
Like I thought no one around interested. You can always PM me too. For anyone who sees this in the future
Do you sometimes wish you chose over service line? How much audit did you do? Main differences between us and europe?
1) Personally, I would've preferred being in a different service line such as transaction services, as this is ultimately where I wanted to be, so starting off there would've been better. But at the same time, transfer pricing really affords you the opportunity to work in different countries (secondments and transfers all over are very very common due to the nature of the work) and for that reason, it was great for me at the time.
2) If you mean being involved in transfer pricing tax audits, were you defend a client against a position by the IRS or other tax authority then, yes I did a few. I think it depends on your partners and what work they bring in whether you do a lot of that work. Some people really love them (the more lawyer types), whereas I didn't like them so much so was happy about this. In essence you look at things similarly, but there is a lot more process and especially legal process if it gets escalated up into the courts.
3) Europe work/life balance was waaaay better. US is long hours, whereas Europe was generally 40 odd hours a week and only extra if something crazy was going on. Also, I generally found the work in Europe to be a lot more interesting. This is probably symptomatic of the fact that a lot of countries in Europe are tax planning advantageous, so there was a lot of interesting restructuring projects, involving the shift of intangibles and companies etc, so a lot of DCF and market valuations, as well as a lot of debt pricing work. For example, I did one project were a company totally shifted its operations to switzerland, so had to value this and then they also converted their manufacturing around the globe to toll/contract manufacturers, so there was a lot of interesting economic analysis and valuation work that had to be done.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for doing this ama. How much of transfer pricing compliance work? I'm looking for a field that has a high learning curve and requires some sort of creativity to succeed in.
It really depends on the kind of work your partners bring in. That said it's still likely to be a high percentage of compliance work, as that's the bead and butter of transfer pricing.
Hey, thanks for the feedback! Really appreciate it! Mind if I throw something at you? I'm a financial math grad who, for my sins, has ended up working in tax doing my accounting exams.. Long term CFA potential but definitely have my eyes on an MBA long term.
I'm working in a boutique tax firm, which specializes in income tax and to a certain extent, wealth management. Great firm, highly regarded in the field of IT but not something I see myself working in forever. Having also come from doing a year as business analyst I've a keen interest in financial modelling in all forms. Obviously not a whole lot of that sort goes on in my office but that hasn't stopped my getting my hands dirty with some VBA, R and Advanced Excel in my own time.
I was recently offered a position in Tax Pricing in the big four and I guess I'm just wondering if you could shed some light on what the breakdown is re modelling and or remedial grunt work? As I understand it I will be coming in as an "experienced hire" and not a trainee one so hopefully could skip on the first year of manual labour!
Obviously I know it's different in every country but really appreciate your feedback!
Thanks!
What is a typical day like in/out of the office?
Hello, Thanks for starting this post, alot of interesting information. I'm currently a second year audit staff at a big 4 firm, and I have been given an opportunity to switch over to TP. I had been looking to get into Valuations but I hadn't really considered TP. Your note about using DCF, financial analysis etc really appealed to me. Could you comment on what % of your work related to that? it seems as though TP pricing and Valuations seems to be some what similar . Also, if you dont mind commenting, what practice did you transfer to before you were able to get into Corp Devp, did you have a hard time trying to get into industry straight from TP? and thats why you went into another practice before leaving for industry? Thanks
Transfer pricing projects are quite diverse ranging from documentation to planning. Depending on the complexity of the project, documentation can consists of conducting interviews, drafting industry analysis, editing reports, and performing market comparables analysis or CPM. As Balooshi mentioned, tax planning projects can consist of restructuring projects, involving the shift of intangibles and companies, most merger analysis, etc. It does depend on what sort of work your partner specializes in and sells. With that said, advancing in transfer pricing requires technical tax knowledge because at the end of the day everything is seen from a tax perspective. In our practice, people from other lines of service who transition in lose a level or do more years to catch up on the technical knowledge. Finance and valuation is not centric to transfer pricing due to the numerous transfer pricing methods. For my project mix, DCF form of valuation is not performed frequently. Also TP and Transaction services are very different fields. I have even seen the valuation part of an engagement get outsourced to the Transaction services group. Balooshi, I would also be interested in learning about your career path particularly around the transitions that you took. Thanks.
duplicate
Hi all,
Davy's answer is a very good one. It really varies, and yes, some TP practices will even outsource the valuation analysis to the valuations team (generally from my understanding though this wouldn't really happen in the US, for example the TP team that does the financial analysis at KPMG is called the "economic & valuations team").
Some of you have asked about what I transitioned into from TP. I took the leap into M&A advisory/transaction services. As this is ultimately where I wanted to be. If you can get a lot of M&A type projects (DD's etc) in TP it may help you make this move if you want as well as valuation work, also you're already in a big 4, so network with the other teams. Another option is to try move to M&A in a boutique firm instead, as Big 4 experience is always going to make you look good there. Did that role for 6 or so months then moved into the corp dev role.
Questions around modelling/valuations can vary. I mean, in my team I did all the valuations and modelling stuff as I was known as the guy who knew valuations as I was doing the CFA and knew excel. While others on the team may have only been involved involved in simple documentation projects performing mind numbing benchmark after benchmark to arrive at pricing a service at cost +10%!! I was luck enough that some of the projects I worked on included a restructuring shift of a billion dollar business unit to another country, centralization of all brands from around the globe business units, planning analysis of structuring the move of patents either via a purchase or royalty to a new headquarter, shift of drug manufacturing service line/tech to another country, etc etc.
You need to ask the senior people in the team what kind of projects the team does. If you have a strong M&A tax team, likely you will get the chance to do DD work. Now the DD work is not really similar to regular financial DD in that its purely from a TP perspective, but the process is very similar (sending info reuqests, follow up questions, management meetings etc). Also, partners who are superstars are generally not afraid and have good understanding and will be pitching restructuring projects to clients, which means you get to do a lot more of the valuation type work potentially and possibly debt stuff too (There is usually always a lot of debt work, the simple benchmarking stuff is bread and butter, but it can get complex at times, and either way, gives a good understanding on the features of debt).
End of the day, if you don't really want to do TP long term and you have better options do them. If you don't have better options it can still be a great starting point as the work can be diverse and useful for future roles, as well as having a Big 4 name on your resume will always be a help rather than a hinder.
Really useful thread, thanks balooshi for your insight!
This is my third year doing TP in a B4, first two in a EU country and I've recently moved to another EU country (worklife balance and pay is far far better now). I basically do transfer pricing for financial services (banks, AM companies and insurance) and financial transactions for transfer pricing (pricing of structured debt, some option pricing, corporate guarantees, etc.)
Since this is a new area with tons of work, it's crucial for you to raise your hand and say the kind of work you wanna do and you're able to do. For instance, since I'm taking the CFA exams (level 2 on June 2015) I am also seen as the "valuations guy" and now I'm getting involved in a lot of intangibles valuations and some restructuring work. At the same time I see people completely overwhelmed of doing easy compliance stuff basically related to intra-group management services or interest rate benchmarking on a 5 year EUR loan to a BBB+ entity. Two people doing TP could live very different lives, so you definitely want to push to be the "numbers" person. 100% agree that this also depends with the business your partner brings in.
However, I am not sure I will do this for my entire career, and that is what really concerns me. Here is my opinion, much appreciated if balooshi or other TP people can share your thoughts:
Pros: - Extremely fast growing market, with a steep learning and promotion curve (in Europe is not hard to make it to manager in 4-5 years, although it varies across countries) - Good balance between working hours and pay: with 8 years of experience you could perfectly be making a 6 figure salary, either if you are a Senior Manager in a B4 or a TP specialist within industry (biggest MNEs). - Potential opportunity to make it to partner: much easier than in Audit, corporate finance, etc. The average age I've seen so far is 36 years old (12-14 years of experience). Not sure about working hours or pressure, but nothing to say about pay. - Smaller (and in my opinion, more exciting) firms such as NERA, Duff&Phelps, or other valuation boutiques are investing in TP since it can bring additional revenues and skills are pretty much transfereable, so I hope there will be opportunities to move from "tax" to econ/financial consulting. - Not many people are experts in the field, so what I've heard is that the pressure with the clients is lower in comparison with other practices (some clients don't even have a TP department, and the Head of Tax or Finance will not bother you very much with your analyses)
Cons: - Treated as a tax discipline: I really like the valuations and financial analysis part of it, so I don't wanna be treated as a tax guy. Unfortunately there is plenty of bullshit in the B4, and I've had to take stupid and useless tax courses (personal tax, wealth tax, etc.) just because TP is within the tax business, even though it has nothing to do with "taxes". It's an economic/financial discipline that has tax consequences. - Exit ops: as explanied, not many companies have a TP department, so exit ops are in my opinion quite limited, basically to other B4 or consulting firms. You can of course establish your own TP business. - Extremely niche area: if you want to transit from TP to other area, I am not sure how easy this will be. I think you have to really sell it quite well if you want to move to other finance area (CF, AM, etc.). This is other reason why I'm taking the CFA, because I hope it will help me if I eventually decide to change my career.
Great post! This really helps me out.
I'm doing a general Tax internship this summer, but they really want me in TP because of my quantative math background.
How do you think you can spin it into something that is attractive to IB or an MBA down the line if I decided to attempt to go down a different road after my internship or getting an MBA later on?
Great post! This really helps me out.
I'm doing a general Tax internship this summer, but they really want me in TP because of my quantative math background.
How do you think you can spin it into something that is attractive to IB or an MBA down the line if I decided to attempt to go down a different road after my internship or getting an MBA later on?
"UFC" You're welcome, I know this kind of info is useful since this is a very niche area and difficult to gain insight from people working in the field. It happened to me in the past, and it still does.
I guess it will depend on more things, but just knowing you have a "quantitative math background" I would definitely go for TP. As I said, is an econ/finance practice even though it's offered as a "tax service" by the B4s. Try to look in Linkedin for profiles by searching "transfer pricing phd", "transfer pricing CFA", or things like that, and you'll be able to see what kind of people are working there.
Regarding its appeal to MBA/IB, I think it could be a good path to a top-MBA but as you probably know, getting into a top-MBA is much more than just your work experience. But if you work for a B4, let's say in a couple of countries, get rapidly promoted, etc., I think you could easily sell it in your application. Honestly, I don't think it's possible to break into IB from TP without going through a top b-school.
Waiting for others comments!
Awesome. I guess I'm just looking at how it might look if I try for something different after my internship during my senior year. Although I am definitely intrigued about how you described and could see myself doing it (I guess that is what the internship is for)....
As far as exiting into industry, do you know what kind of positions there are, salary, etc in comparison to normal tax?I'm just really looking for something that well keep my options open and good compensation. I like tax and there are definitely some really nice paying jobs but I feel like I might get stuck doing it forever, so TP seems like a good crossover.
Hours seem good as you mentioned, and partner potential is there as well.
I don't know much about exit ops to industry, and as I said above I think there are not many at the moment, even though in-house hires are growing considerably. I'm not sure about salary either, but for a role as in-house Senior Manager (+-8 years) you can make decent money (6 figures approx) with acceptable hours, it will of course depend on the country, industry, etc. though!
The bad thing about industry is that you are capped at Head of TP, and you will probably report to the Head of Tax or Head of Finance, but not bad anyway! For me, a job with 6 figures and decent hours would be just fine... I'm not expecting to earn 7 figures or appear on the FT, just make decent money, enjoy life and enjoy family.
Cheers
Hi Balooshi, thanks for the detailed information, I've followed other posts on transfer pricing as well as yours. I will have an interview with 2 partners at EY NYC office next week, and I saw on LinkedIn there are "transfer pricing economists" who also do models and researches. Is there a very quantitative aspect to the transfer pricing practice? Since I did not come from a finance background (actuarial science master's and econ bachelor's), could you shed a light on what should be expected for such an interview & do I have to know specific models/softwares/etc. for the interview? Thanks a lot for your help!
As explained above, it will depend on the type of transactions/complexity/amounts you're involved in, but if you're applying for a position as an economic analyst in NYC I'm pretty sure you will manage to get involved into the quantitative part. Having said this, I don't know what you mean by "very quantitative aspect" and that's pretty subjective. Expect to see simple and multiple regressions, some option pricing with Black-Merton-Scholes, and you could potentially get to see some statistical tests (Monte Carlo simulation, t-tests, etc.). The more you can get involved within this stuff, the better. Other than that, the quantitative part is limited to financial statement analysis, bond yields, etc. (which is all numbers but just basic maths!)
I don't think you will be asked for the knowledge of specific software apart from standard use of Excel, but of course the more you know the better (Bloomberg for instance).
By the way, I'm assuming this is for an entry position. It could be of great help if you provide your input once the interview is over, I am quite interested on seeing what kind of packages are now offering in NYC for a TP guy.
Good luck in your interview!
Hi Loismine, how did it go?
I spoke to some people in a TP group recently, one JD and one PhD. They really got me interested, as I feel the quantative part could be really great, as you mentioned above.
They all seemed happy with their work, and had reasonable hours. So definitely something I'm still considering.
Good, I hope you end up having a good offer. It'd be great if you can share numbers for those interested.
Hey the content on your website looks reaaaally familiar. I wonder if that's because I wrote it. Couldn't you at least choose a new website theme?
Congrats! And thanks for sharing.
Finally decided to escape the TP world to do finance-oriented work. Moved to the Corp Finance team in another B4. PM if anyone is interested. Cheers
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