Where should I go for undergrad for the best shot at making it to the street?

So I've got most of my decisions and financial aid and I have 4 viable options.

Miami University - non-target, but out of all the schools I might go to, it's definitely my favorite. Oh and it's basically free.

Ohio State University - very cheap for me, also a non-target, but well-respected in Ohio. But, like Miami, I'm doubtful about what kind of opportunities I could get.

Notre Dame - accepted, haven't received financial aid yet. I'd likely have to take out 15k-20k a year in loans to go, but it's much better represented on the street and the alumni network is pretty phenomenal.

Vanderbilt University - accepted, good financial aid (same situation as notre dame; likely 15k a year in loans). From what I've read, Vandy is a great school and well-represented on Wall Street.

Also, I was waitlisted at Dartmouth; should I wait and see if I'm eventually accepted?

Basically, I'm set on investment banking; it would take a lot to make me change my mind. So, where should I go? I'd be happy at any 4 of the schools and I just want the best possible chance for banking. Thanks for any advice.

 

Vandy is a great school but if you want to make it onto "wall street" (e.g New York) I'm unsure that it places better than UND. If you're fine with Chicago/West Coast/etc then Vandy is a great choice. Really fun school to boot.

 
efeens15:

So I've got most of my decisions and financial aid and I have 4 viable options.

Miami University - non-target, but out of all the schools I might go to, it's definitely my favorite. Oh and it's basically free.

Ohio State University - very cheap for me, also a non-target, but well-respected in Ohio. But, like Miami, I'm doubtful about what kind of opportunities I could get.

Notre Dame - accepted, haven't received financial aid yet. I'd likely have to take out 15k-20k a year in loans to go, but it's much better represented on the street and the alumni network is pretty phenomenal.

Vanderbilt University - accepted, good financial aid (same situation as notre dame; likely 15k a year in loans). From what I've read, Vandy is a great school and well-represented on Wall Street.

Also, I was waitlisted at Dartmouth; should I wait and see if I'm eventually accepted?

Basically, I'm set on investment banking; it would take a lot to make me change my mind. So, where should I go? I'd be happy at any 4 of the schools and I just want the best possible chance for banking. Thanks for any advice.

If you have the chance, absolutely go to Dartmouth. Not only is it an Ivy, but Dartmouth has a loyal alumni base at all the Bulge Brackets. It will make landing an internship/FT offer much easier.

I would send a letter to Dartmouth this week saying that though you've been accepted to Vanderbilt (only mention Vandy), you see yourself at Dartmouth. Give 2-3 reasons why Dartmouth would be a better fit for you. Send a paper fedex copy to the admissions office as well as an email to A) the admission officer representing your region (call anonymously and ask for the name/contact) and B) to the general admissions office email. Think about it this way: right now you will not being going to Dartmouth, so you might as well send something to help yourself stand out/draw attention to your application. Just don't be pushy.

If you do not get off the waitlist, go to Vanderbilt. At my top BB we have more Vandy than Notre Dame and it is seen as a better school. Plus Nashville is supposed to be a nice place+you have a great financial aid package.

During your first year, crush it with your grades (3.5+) and apply as a transfer to Columbia/UPenn/HYP/Dartmouth. If you do this, you'll be well along the way to breaking in to IB.

The master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play. He simply pursues his vision of excellence at whatever he does, leaving others to decide whether he is working or playing. To him he is always doing both.
 

How difficult would it be if I didn't transfer? Honestly, I'd probably rather not try to transfer (especially since I've heard Vandy is fun as hell), so coming out of Notre Dame or Vanderbilt can't be THAT hard, right?

 
efeens15:

How difficult would it be if I didn't transfer? Honestly, I'd probably rather not try to transfer (especially since I've heard Vandy is fun as hell), so coming out of Notre Dame or Vanderbilt can't be THAT hard, right?

Unless your most important goal is NYC at a BB/top group in IBD, I don't think you'll kick yourself for going to Vandy.

I get the impression from your posts that you are interested in IB, but are not a "GS TMT or bust" type of person, and would be satisfied if you had a lot of fun in college and got a job at a good, but not uber elite/prestige, ibank.

But if you ARE hellbent on the most elite groups Ibanking has to offer, try to transfer.

 

Just as an added note: if you're going to contact admissions, CONTACT ADMISSIONS YOURSELF. Admissions WILL make a note on your application, and it will say who actually called (ie you are or your parents). If they go to reevaluate your application, it will make a difference. You calling > you emailing >> your parents calling > your parents emailing.

Also, be wary of being waitlisted. A lot of times waitlists are ways to fill certain quotas. For instance, if the orchestra director needs more clarinets, clarinet players will be picked off the waitlist. This extends to sports teams, certain majors, and diversity recruitment as well. If you have a special talent, are an athlete, or are URM status, you have a good shot of getting off the waitlist. If not, I wouldn't put a lot of weight on it.

Disclosure: used to coach high schoolers on getting into college. PM me if you have any questions.

 

Guys guys guys.... Have you seen the chicks at UMiami? That alone should be enough to sway your decision. Other than Dartmouth, the remaining schools are all so-so (ND might be a bit better but not worth the 80k of loans you gonna have to go through), and plus you're still not guaranteed a BB IBD job after graduation. Might as well go to UMiami where hot chicks are GUARANTEED

 
monkeyleverage:

Guys guys guys.... Have you seen the chicks at UMiami? That alone should be enough to sway your decision. Other than Dartmouth, the remaining schools are all so-so (ND might be a bit better but not worth the 80k of loans you gonna have to go through), and plus you're still not guaranteed a BB IBD job after graduation. Might as well go to UMiami where hot chicks are GUARANTEED

Big difference between Univ. of Miami and Miami Univ. (the one in Ohio to which he is referring).
 

it's miami ohio, and yes the girls there are really hot haha and i mean it's pretty well-respected here in ohio and i have no doubt it places into IB but i'm doubtful it places into BB let alone in New York.

Would you guys say there's any discernible difference between OCR for Vandy and Notre Dame?

 
efeens15:

it's miami ohio, and yes the girls there are really hot haha and i mean it's pretty well-respected here in ohio and i have no doubt it places into IB but i'm doubtful it places into BB let alone in New York.

Would you guys say there's any discernible difference between OCR for Vandy and Notre Dame?

In Chicago, Notre Dame has the edge, I think it's similar elsewhere.
 

If you're looking to work in finance in Chicago, I would say go to Notre Dame. If you're indifferent about the city you eventually land in then I'd say Vandy or ND. Of course, if the Dartmouth thing pans out just go there. Also, I'd try to forget about these "respected in Ohio" ideas.

Keep in mind the cultures of the schools you listed here vary widely so it's hard to get an idea what you care about. For me, I'd never even consider going to ND because it has an absolutely terrible party culture e.g. too religious, no greek system, unattractive female population, bad weather, kids living in the dorms for 3-4 years is common, etc.

That is why I personally would give Vandy an edge over ND. There are a number of schools in this country with a decent social scene and target/semi target recruiting so I'd look at them. If you just want to stay in Ohio and have a really fun college experience just go to Ohio St. or Miami, OH.

 

I agree with above regarding writing a letter to the adcom at Dartmouth. This may put you over the mark to get accepted. If you do not, I would consider everything across the board for the other schools. ND has a better street cred but if you work hard enough you can place well from many different schools. If Miami is in state, cheaper and you like it, (and of course the chicks) then go there and work hard, network, and have fun, it's still a good school.

 

Other posters are correct when they say Dartmouth has good representation on Wall Street. However, Vanderbilt and Notre Dame also have good representation on Wall Street, so I don't think this should be the deciding factor. I would evaluate this decision more on which school you will have the best educational experience.

Keep in mind that Dartmouth and Vanderbilt/Notre Dame are two very different types of schools and so you are likely to have very different types of educational and personal experiences. Dartmouth in some ways will feel as if you are in boarding school 2.0 The campus is beautiful but it is in the countryside and there will be times during those long winters where you feel you are completely isolated from civilization (could be a plus, depending on your personality/interests). Vanderbilt and Notre Dame are in somewhat more urban areas, but definitely not major cities (e.g. New York, Boston, etc.).

Vanderbilt and Notre Dame are also effectively double the size of Dartmouth, which has about 6,000 students (including graduate students) vs. Notre Dame and Vanderbilt which have 12,000+ total students. Sports are also huge at Vanderbilt (SEC) and Notre Dame (football). I attended an Ivy League school and I can tell you that a significant portion of the student body is apathetic about sports. I know some people who never attended a single football game during their four years, even the "biggest" game (against the rival school, e.g. Harvard vs. Yale) of the season.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Dartmouth operates on a quarter system called the "Dartmouth Plan" as opposed to a semester system. You should really look into this system and see whether it's the right fit for you, because I do know someone (granted, this is only one data point) who said he hated the quarter system when he was at Dartmouth.

Good luck. You have plenty of great choices so you should choose the one that you will be happiest at.

 

I go to Miami so I can add some insight as to what to expect here.

There are definitely people making it into IB from here, though it's usually in MM banks. JPMorgan weirdly enough has a huge presence on campus, and Bank of America has been known to show up every now and then for career fairs. A professor of mine this semester was in capital markets at JPMorgan, actually. There's also an active IB club that takes a yearly trip to New York.

Dartmouth if you can. Notre Dame and Vanderbilt will definitely have a bit of an edge as well. But it's a running joke here that Ohio State's business program is the world's leading supplier of bank tellers. Miami will have better opportunities than OSU for undergrad, that much I can promise you. As to if the edge Notre Dame or Vanderbilt will give you is worth $80,000 in loans, that's for you to decide. Again, Dartmouth is ideal.

 
Anarchyz11:

I go to Miami so I can add some insight as to what to expect here.

There are definitely people making it into IB from here, though it's usually in MM banks. JPMorgan weirdly enough has a huge presence on campus, and Bank of America has been known to show up every now and then for career fairs. A professor of mine this semester was in capital markets at JPMorgan, actually. There's also an active IB club that takes a yearly trip to New York.

Dartmouth if you can. Notre Dame and Vanderbilt will definitely have a bit of an edge as well. But it's a running joke here that Ohio State's business program is the world's leading supplier of bank tellers. Miami will have better opportunities than OSU for undergrad, that much I can promise you. As to if the edge Notre Dame or Vanderbilt will give you is worth $80,000 in loans, that's for you to decide. Again, Dartmouth is ideal.

So how difficult would you say it'd be for me to go to Miami and land a job at a BB?

 
efeens15:

So how difficult would you say it'd be for me to go to Miami and land a job at a BB?

It all depends on you. If it's a bank that actively recruits at career fairs/on campus, you've probably got as good of a chance as any target/semi-target. You can find a list through Google easy. If it's one that doesn't, such as those on the other end of the cultural spectrum (ie. Goldman Sachs), you're probably in the same boat as most non-targets. That being said, again, the IB club here has a lot of connections right to those who recruit on campus and alumni.
 
Anarchyz11:
it's a running joke here that Ohio State's business program is the world's leading supplier of bank tellers.

haha, I love the guy from Miami of Ohio destroying Ohio St., at least people around the country have heard of OSU being in the Big Ten. It's a better brand and prob 100x more fun college experience than Miami OH.

I would estimate your realistic chances of landing an IBD analyst spot at a BB from Miami OH at ~5% and that's after you've gotten the requisite GPA and internships.

 
adapt or die:

haha, I love the guy from Miami of Ohio destroying Ohio St., at least people around the country have heard of OSU being in the Big Ten. It's a better brand and prob 100x more fun college experience than Miami OH.

I would estimate your realistic chances of landing an IBD analyst spot at a BB from Miami OH at ~5% and that's after you've gotten the requisite GPA and internships.

Ever heard of green beer day? Also, I'd rather not take my business courses with someone majoring in "Golf Management". But seriously, that is a bad stereotype. OSU is a decent undergrad and an even better MBA (for us commoners).

5% is a good estimate for those who eventually do get something wallstreet related. But since the OP knows what he wants, his fate is in his own hands. Much like JDPowerhouse stated above me, OP (hopefully) knows what needs to happen. As long as he goes to a school with decent enough connections into IB, which Miami does considering a few BBs do actively recruit on campus even if it is 1-2, the path is there. Even if you don't make it to a BB, there are a lot of MM banks here and you end up debt free. Just my opinion.

The gap between these schools where perfectly equal candidates would only get an offer based on their school is very slim and not worth spending $80k on, especially when the fallback of MM is still there.

 

My ranking (considering all factors, including cost and the fact that you want into a NYC BB)

1 Dartmouth 2 Vanderbilt 3a Miami Ohio 3b Notre Dame 5 Ohio State

I think you'll really like Vanderbilt. SEC athletics; hot, rich, smart southern girls; well respected throughout the country; Greek life; milder weather compared to alternatives. The $80,000 in additional cost is worth it just to meet a hot rich girl. Consider it an investment into your retirement fund.

 
DCDepository:

My ranking (considering all factors, including cost and the fact that you want into a NYC BB)

1 Dartmouth
2 Vanderbilt
3a Miami Ohio
3b Notre Dame
5 Ohio State

I think you'll really like Vanderbilt. SEC athletics; hot, rich, smart southern girls; well respected throughout the country; Greek life; milder weather compared to alternatives. The $80,000 in additional cost is worth it just to meet a hot rich girl. Consider it an investment into your retirement fund.

I really like your line of thinking and budfox's comments. Vandy is probably awesome (I didn't go to an SEC school) and I know how terrible ND is socially. What it really comes down to is, does the OP really value the opportunity to have both FO recruiting and a good social scene at school. If so, there are a handful of schools that do have both and I would consider Vandy one of them.

 

Dude go to Vandy. I think Vandy may have a slight edge in NYC, but at worst they're roughly the same. The main selling point is that you'll have a WAY, I repeat, WAY, better college experience at Vandy. I have friends and have visited both schools and trust me when I tell you that outside football Notre Dame fucking sucks. I go to an Ivy and it's way more fun/parties more than ND. Like I feel bad for my friends who go there because I'm basically having way more fun at college while having better job prospects at the same time. The school honestly works against you having any sort of fun in college. Even when it comes to football games, they make it a pain in the ass. It's also sad because a lot of the student body knows that the school sucks and wishes they were else where or are jealous of their friends at other schools.

Vandy on the other is completely different. You'll get a great education, great network, great sports, and you'll have a fucking blast in college. You'll be able to partake in all sorts of debauchery that you can only partake (and the only time where its socially acceptable) in college while still getting a kick-ass job. It's honestly the best of both worlds. Plus, have you seen the girls at Vandy? GOOD LAWD. Sundresses are a beautiful thing.

 

If you're a good student at Notre Dame (Finance major with 3.6+ GPA) and get involved in relevant clubs (i.e. SIBC) you will probably get interviews with most BB banks (based in NYC and Chicago). If you're a stellar student, you will have a great shot at going straight to PE (have several friends that did this when ND was half the target school as it is now). Don't know much about Vandy but I can assure you that ND is placing A LOT of kids on Wall Street (based in NYC) lately, so you really can't go wrong with ND.

 

Since you know going in that you want IB, I'd seriously consider Miami. By working towards that goal your first couple years, you mitigate a lot of the disadvantage of coming from a non-target.

As mentioned above, Miami has an IB Club on campus with a lot of strong connections. I had a friend from high school who wanted to get into IB, went to Miami, worked hard, and will be at GS IBD in Chicago this summer.

The no debt and social scenes are two more pluses to consider.

 

Go wheverer you want to go. It really doesn't matter. If you get solid grades at any one of those schools you will get a great job. I agree, Dartmouth is defintely above the other four, but you can't go wrong. Miami and Ohio St are the top schools in Ohio. I happen to know a couple of guys that went to Miami, and trust me, they are doing just fine. I also know several Notre Dame and Vandy guys who have IB/PB jobs. I'm going to give you some fatherly advice here, because I went to a school very similar to the ones you are discussing (size, reputation, b-school, etc.). Go have fun. Go to the school you feel you fit in the most at. If you go to a school because of where you "think it could get you", you may regret it for the rest of your life. Forget about the target and the non-target situation for a moment. The friends you make at school will be the people who open up doors for you. It is the best four years of your life, so you shouldn't have any regrets. The guys I went to school with would stop at nothing to help me land a job, and you will do the same for them. They all have jobs at law firms, banks, and consulting firms.... they didn't go to Harvard / Stanford/ Yale...and partied like it was the last day on earth. Trust me on this one....pick the school you like.

If nobody hates you, you're doing something wrong
 

ND has great OCR, and Vandy's is not bad. I work in Houston, and there's plenty of both here (although more Vandy)-ND is more of a Chi-Town feeder. NYC opportunities won't be Wharton-esque at either. Dartmouth places a lot of kids on the street, but I don't know if it's as cut and dry as other posters have made it out to be. I'd pick whatever one of the three (if you get off waitlist at Dartmouth) that you think you'd have the most fun at, because each school is going to give you adequate OCR.

Miami and Ohio U are going to put you in a spot where you'd have to hustle REAL hard to break in. If it's 200k vs free, then maybe it's a different story, but I'd pick between the three others so as to not put yourself in a bad spot. 60k in loans is a pretty insignificant amount when you consider the likely bump in your earning potential (on average). This isn't a Full-Ride vs Sticker scenario y'all.

 
Best Response

You guys obviously don't know much of anything about Notre Dame's placement on the Street. Just this year alone, ND placed 5 at Goldman, 5 at JPM, 2 at MS, 10 at BAML, and more at the other BBs (all of those are in NYC btw). They also placed a few at PE shops. ND's reputation on the Street has been skyrocketing in recent years. Every BB has OCR at ND and ND has become a target school for many BBs. This is partly due to their incredible alumni network.

As for where you should go to school, it's really up to you. I'd say you should have 2 different ways to think about it.

  1. You want to save money. Go to Miami. Miami is a ton of fun, it has really good looking girls, and I actually know a few people who have made it in IB from there. I don't know a ton about it, but Miami has to place better than Ohio St. I've never heard of anyone from Ohio St landing in BB.

  2. You are okay with taking out a loan. This one depends on what you want. ND definitely gives you a better shot at making it in IB, if that really is your #1 goal. ND's social life is average, and the weather sucks, but it's a great school. Vandy, on the other hand, has really good academics, good weather, hot girls, and great Greek life, but they don't place nearly as well as ND does. That being said, if you work hard and have a stellar GPA, you will have plenty of opportunities from Vandy.

  3. If you get into Dartmouth, I'd have a hard time turning that down if I were you. I visited Dartmouth when I was looking at colleges, and it's an awesome place, not to mention a top 10, if not top 5, undergrad school.

 

Dartmouth or Vandy; you also need to look further down the road. Those schools (esp Dartmouth) will be invaluable to you throughout the rest of your career. I come from a non target and one thing I think will require me to go back to school is lack of "proper pedigree" (as much as I despise the elitist idea).

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

My two cents as someone who made the path from the "southern/mid-atlantic not really ivy" school bracket to BB IB / top MBA etc. blah:

  1. Get active on Dartmouth and see if you can get more transparency there
  2. Vandy - great social life, great college atmosphere, good reputation, and you have good financial aid. Get good grades and you WILL have a great chance at IB - i.e., interviews will be in the mix and then it's up to you. One dimension to consider is to honestly think whether the social scene there is for you: very greek driven, very conservative, very southern, not much room in their definition of what is cool. That said if you feel comfortable there, you will love your time and thrive there
  3. ND - placement seems fine, unless you LOVE football, Vandy is probably overall better (weather, social, slightly better reputation, etc.)

End of the day I would say go where you feel most comfortable and just do well. You will give yourself the most options that way. Net net the biggest difference will be to show that you did well, wherever you went, and you will do the best where you are happy.

 
JustADude:

Choose ND>Vanderbilt. If you actually work on the street you'd know that ND places significantly better.

Not in IBD at my BB. Maybe across the bank in all divisions but not IBD. I said it before but Dartmouth>Vanderbilt>ND>>>>>>>Miami (I went to another Ivy so not biased towards any particular school)

Again- Vandy- great weather, great academics, better looking girls, good (not as great as an Ivy) placement at top BBs in NYC.

If you haven't already, reach out to Dartmouth. That is your best shot at landing IBD at GS/MS.

OP: send me a pm if you want some specific advice for my bank/are looking for opps once you start school.

The master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play. He simply pursues his vision of excellence at whatever he does, leaving others to decide whether he is working or playing. To him he is always doing both.
 

Targets outside the Ivies/Stanford/MIT would probably include UChicago, Stern, Ross @ UMich, McIntire @ UVA, Haas @ Berkeley, along with a few others. Semi-targets could range anywhere from Vanderbilt, BC, UT Austin, etc.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

I do IB, International Baccalaureate, I'm going to get around a 40/45, that's PRETTY HIGH, like a 3.9, it's just my SATs that are bringing me down, 1710... I'm starting SAT Sparta training now!

I've heard that to go into investment banking/wall street, you just need to go to a prestigious university, does that mean I can go to an Ivy League like Dartmouth and study anything? Like I am interested in global development since I already have the name of the school?

 
bubblyxlove:
I do IB, International Baccalaureate, I'm going to get around a 40/45, that's PRETTY HIGH, like a 3.9, it's just my SATs that are bringing me down, 1710... I'm starting SAT Sparta training now!

I've heard that to go into investment banking/wall street, you just need to go to a prestigious university, does that mean I can go to an Ivy League like Dartmouth and study anything? Like I am interested in global development since I already have the name of the school?

Dartmouth now takes people with 1710s on their SATs?
 

1710 is retard range. Unless you did like 400 on writing and even then...

It used to be that you could study anything at HYPCCDB and get on the street. Now it's a bit harder. But you won't get into Dartmouth with a 1710 so don't worry about it. Even t50 schools will be tough with a 1710.

 

You're going to have a shit ton of trouble getting into a top school without higher SAT scores. Or epic extracurriculars

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

From what I've seen, once you get into a firm, where you went to college matters a loot less just like when you get into college, where you went to high school matters a loot less

 

A 1710 SAT is better than 73% of the population, so it's not exactly a poor score. And if it's the first time you took it, somewhere in the 1800 range is possible with only minor skill advancement. But with any school that is going to be considered a target, you are talking about needing an SAT in the 95th+ percentile before you really have a chance. If you're not a minority, having a great shot at a top school (Ivies and equivalent) basically requires 99th percentile or higher SAT these days (2200+).

 

Damn...Everyone is being quite harsh on the kid. But OP, study harder for the SAT and pass that 2100 range. Easier said than done, but I would dedicate a whole summer for it. My scores shot up with regular practice. Try to do a few passages a day especially for reading. If that does not work out, try the ACT. Some people tend to do a lot better on that than the SAT. Overall, yes you should work your butt off to get into a good school. If you don't get it in, that is ok. You will have a harder time getting in, but I cannot stress how many people from non-targets breaking into finance but that is totally off topic. Your goal right now should be to get into a top school. Step back once in while and put things in perspective, and don't stress too much. If you get caught up in all the hype, you will never be happy.

 

After the Ivy League your thoughts on the next best option was Georgetown?

Stanford MIT CalTech Duke Notre Dame ITT Tech

But joking aside - Fordham if you can pay for it.

I hate victims who respect their executioners
 

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  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”