Apple Corporate Finance?
I was reached out to by an Apple recruiter today for a corp fin analyst role and was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of what working in CF there is like? Any knowledge on what the work is like, compensation/pay, atmosphere and culture, etc would be very helpful. Would like to have an idea of what it's like before deciding whether to engage seriously with the recruitment/interview process.
Background: I worked for Apple in both the US and EMEAI with some limited travel to other offices as well.
CF: First of all, there are various teams within finance. WW is worldwide, then you have all the other regions. Within finance itself there are also other depts looking at their own subject areas. There is sales finance, commercial teams, acquisition, and more. If you are used to the regular banking or ibd climate - this is very different. Everything from dress code, demeanor, politics, hierarchy and rest are not comparable to a traditional bank. In fact, people try their best to be "non traditional". You will not see people yelling at each other or stab each other in the back like in most other places. Junior members of the team are encouraged to speak up more and not be afraid. It is a very American tech company, especially in the finance teams.
Disadvantages of finance culture: Because of their unique status in the world of tech and the market there is at times a feeling of insularity. While real banking and finance is connected to other banks, has a "common culture" among key institutes and has a relatively large networking element, I always thought Apple staff were aloof regarding a lot of external market factors. I guess when you are the perceived #1 in the world you can afford the luxury of behaving this way. Also, if you want to learn the traditional trade of finance, some elements are there, others are not. This is not a bank.
People: Very diverse, very different from each other, very different professional and education paths, very different personalities - all combined with their passion for the company and the brand. No race, ethnicity or background is favored, so this seems to be a better place if you are not white/a minority, too short, not very attractive, or not any of the other "perceived values" in normal banking. This does not mean that staff here are all fat geeks in unwashed clothes - but a lot of them are. Women also seem to get better opportunities here compared to other industries or companies. I think the part of the office I was based at in Cupertino had more than 50 languages and 40 nationalities. If a company is this important you can simply get the best brains from anywhere in the world. Talking about brains - I must say my colleagues were all exceptionally smart when it came to traditional intelligence.
Compensation: Low compared to street comp. But people don't work at Apple to get rich. They do it because they like the culture, want to work for a really cool company and want job security. I don't think I have ever heard that someone got laid off at Apple. Except on the self-driving car project. But that was an experiment anyway.
Culture: Very supportive, fewer politics, it is about getting work done. You can email pretty much anyone in the business and they will do their best to help you. There is no culture of "hoarding information or documents" like in many British or American blue-chip companies. Even today you can feel Steve Job's impact on product, leadership, guidance and how confident they are walking through this world.
Exit opps: The biggest upside, IMO. After I finished at Apple my phone wouldn't stop ringing. Everybody wanted to talk to me. There were recruiters and line managers who called me up just to speak to someone who worked at this firm before. They wanted to ask questions and learn about the culture. This is by far the biggest takeaway from my job - people didn't care as much about what I did at Apple, they were more fascinated about the fact that I worked there. I could have landed 3-4 jobs right after leaving within 2 weeks if I wanted to and even years after that gig people still refer to me at other offices "as the guy who worked at Apple before".
Conclusion: If you are into traditional careers at traditional white-shoe firms, don't join Apple. Things are done differently here and I mean everything will be different. Work processes, how projects are managed, how people communicate is vastly incompatible with how the old guys are doing it in Manhattan or the Square Mile.
Do interview and join if you are willing to be flexible, able to open up and learn and have a passion for one of the most incredible companies in the world. Passion and emotions are important because all your hard labor and input may not be reflected in your paycheck.
Why did I leave? - Apple, while it is a very unique and interesting company, was too small for me. When I worked there, after subtracting retail, support, admin, and off-shore staff - only a small portion was left in the management team. What does that mean? It means smaller teams, smaller projects (even though these are still very important), smaller titles and smaller responsibilities than in larger corporations. - Money All the infatuation in the world is not going to support my financial goals. Maybe I shouldn't have worked in IB before I joined the fruit? Joining Apple was a down round for me and at some point I wanted to be rewarded for my work. The salaries are not "low" at Apple, they are just low compared to finance jobs elsewhere. But I guess some people like prestige more than money. - Too many men Like many tech firms there are quite a few male dominated teams. There is a strong cultural push to bring in more women in tech, but due to many reasons this is still an issue. Based on my experience teams are more productive with gender mixed staff. While performance is not an issue at Apple, it is a bit sad that traditional stereotypes against women exist here. There are a lot of people from other cultures at Apple, maybe that is the reason? - Too diverse I grew up in the West (US + UK) and I thought I was always open-minded and friendly towards other nationalities and cultures. In some teams at this company there is a very strong bias towards men from a certain sub-continent. This is totally fine and they are really smart people, but sometimes it could become an issue if they bring in cultural elements from their homeland to the US or Europe (like how they talk about women or disregard certain decisions). Being in a hyper-diverse team where every skill, race, language and culture is present is the ideal goal, but it also has challenges we have to cope with. This environment is the opposite of traditional firms. Likewise, a lot of men in there dress like S. Jobs. black turtleneck, same glasses, new balance shoes, and the rest. I found that really weird. I guess they think the same about bankers who dress alike.
There is also something superficial that I learned about me: I prefer to work with attractive people. I would never say that everyone at Apple is unattractive (not the case), but I have also not seen a lot of well-groomed men or women in nice attire. Some basic standards were missing (nobody shaves, women don't wear always makeup, some people had weight issues,, ..) - the entire environment is very casual. If you like this, you are good to go.
So, this one is not easy to answer because every applicant has their own way of handling a job search. There is no "standard" recipe how to come across as "passionate".
For starters, I am a very enthusiastic and happy person. I always have a smile on my face and look at the positive aspects even on a bad day. My upbringing was in a Christian family with strong values and my parents always taught me to look at opportunities in life regardless of how dire a situation might be. I have also traveled extensively through my life and I connect with people easily.
A job interview is just that - an opportunity in life. Be happy that you were one of the few selected to even speak to them. This is your chance to sell yourself and if you come across as honest, genuine and enthusiastic, your chances of landing the job will increase.
How can you do that? 1) Research everything you can about the company, the department and the people you are going to meet. I know this sounds generic, but it is the best advice I could give you.
Here are the points I work through for every single job application, for every interview, and for each line manager / stakeholder.
Before phone interview: 1) 1st visit to their retail location, 1-2 different locations 2) Full analysis of website(s) and key messages, culture 3) Read at least 1 book about their culture, better more 4) Go to glassdoor to read up on recent employee feedback 5) Call up at least 1 person you know at this company to get details re role/dept/politics/.. Write everything down and analyze your data. 6) Youtube, social networks, twitter, .. research including hashtags
Before f2f interview: 1) I hang out near their offices to get a feel for the people, how they dress, behave, what cars they drive, where do they eat, and more 2) 2nd visit to their retail outlets, to compare with 1st interview notes. I spend more time with their staff and ask indirect questions regarding their work culture. Do retail staff hate corporate? Where drastic cost savings introduced? Do they hate their job? Do they make ends meet? Is the service actually any good? How does the leadership team communicate to them? 3) I buy at least 1 one of their products and give it an evaluation, how was it designed, built, serviced, communicated, (..). This doesn't work for all companies, obviously, but you can try. Don't buy a Porsche when you interview with them, but you can ask a friend if you can drive theirs for a moment or ask them if they are happy with it. Or go to a showroom and sit inside one. There is a strong link between management culture and product innovation. Apple is the #1 company that realized this. Attention to detail matters hugely here. Every pixel on the iPhone home screen is designed to create the best out of the box experience possible. Everything they do has a point do it, it is not a coincidence. Make sure every line that comes out of your mouth equally has a point. You are not answering questions, you are telling a story that leads to a better future for them if they hire you. 4) Psychological profile and SNS background searches for each manager I will meet, especially line manager. This is very helpful to customize how you talk in the interview and how you behave towards them. Absolutely adapt your behavior to each and every person you meet without being fake.
In case of Apple I actually needed a new keyboard and decided to buy one just before the interview. I brought the store bag into the interview room and put it next to my stuff. Two interviewers picked up on it and we discussed what I bought, how they retail experience was, and if the service was ok. People will notice the small things in life, they are either trained to do it (HR) or are naturally perceptive. Don't overdo this bit, just act like it was meant to happen anyway and "not planned". I even mentioned that I had the item in my Amazon basket but wanted to save time.
Passion can be seen in how someone speaks about certain aspects. Their pupils widen, their heart starts to beat faster, they gesticulate more and lean forward with positive body language. A passionate candidate doesn't merely answer interview questions, he delivers mini-speeches that fully engage the people in the room and pull them onto their side. A passionate person creates an emotional bond between them and the other party.
Look at Youtube, Tedx, or how other good leaders behave - they have the magic potion that can captivate an audience. Learn from them. I never had a website, an interest in creating art or music and never owned a camera. But I am interested in manipulating people through enthusiasm, passion and psychological levers. At the end of the day, this is what management is about.
Excellent follow-up question, allow me to clarify:
(Please note that Apple was 50% smaller when I worked there! They have more than doubled in size in just a few years. But please also note that Apple have a lot of retail, support and dev staff that don't sit next to you or work with you - in contrast to banking)
I worked in very large corporations before, 200K+ employees (heavy on management) and very global companies. Offices around the entire globe. Market makers and movers. Large departments. Large titles. Lots of responsibilities. Quick promotions, up or out principle. Open plan offices that are encapsulated in the largest office buildings you can imagine (several thousand staff in one building). Think Manhattan and Canary Wharf. This is what I like. When I go to work I need to breathe in the energy from 120,000 people around me who call Canary Wharf their workplace. I need to feel like I am part of the biggest machine there, even though I am only a small wheel in this machine. This also fits with my attitude as a general manager who likes to work on multiple initiatives with many stakeholders. You will most likely be looking after a certain area at Apple.
How does "smallness" feel at Apple?
1) The offices were smaller when I was there. In London, as an example, they sit on top of the Regent Street flagship store and were sharing a small-ish office space with a MM boutique. Yes, you read that correctly. The largest company in the world does share office space with a financial services company. The meeting rooms were tiny, even management desks were compact and there was no large open plan (i.e. 700+ people on a floor plate). I prefer to sit in board rooms where there are 25+ senior people.
2) Smaller titles Culturally, job titles in this company don't mean a lot. I met a very senior guy with 20+ years at Apple, Google and even ran his own startups (/w exits) and who was part of Steve Jobs' inner circle. His title? "Manager". If you come from an environment where titles are handed out like candy (ie finance), this may look funny to you. Also, some people need to express their grandiosity in front of family, friends or even strangers to appear relevant. This person would not be very happy at Apple, in fact these people would probably not be happy anywhere. Your clout at Apple depends on how much you know, how you bring your skills to the table, and how relevant you are to the business. Nothing more. Nobody is going to listen to you because of your title or the fancy school you went to. You have to pull your own weight to make it here. It is pretty much a no-bs business.
3) Smaller ways of (net)working Apple today is not how it was a few years ago, so this point has probably changed a little bit. But they are not heavy on management staff and don't want additional layers. How you engage with others in an environment that is not overstaffed in the senior ranks is very different to a bank or other management-heavy corporations. In banks you will see many people do "similar things", but from a different perspective. Just think of all the various research or risk management teams. At Apple, I found that management staff "own" more within their resort, you could argue they are more specialized and are more responsible for their own work. They were also a bit weaker on processes compared to process heavy industries. There is also less of a regulatory burden in what you do (compared to banking, aviation, automotive,..).
Small startup culture Eventually, everything you find in a company today comes down to how it was created. When Steve Jobs & Steve Wozniak designed, engineered and soldered the Apple I in their garage, nobody knew what could come out of it one day. And today, when you walk into a meeting with your colleagues to work on the latest playbook, you still don't know what could come out of it. But you trust it will be big. There is a "small startup feeling" that got lost along the way in many corporations. Especially banks are guilty of rigidity, slow processes and lack of innovation. Silicon Valley is one of the places where you still have this feeling. People are willing to try, even though it means they might fail. Failure at Apple means you have at least given it a shot and you might learn from it. Go for a role in the bay area if you dream big and are not afraid to fail.
Smaller people Arrogance, politics, working against colleagues, blaming others and similar behavior have no place at Apple (and they shouldn't have a place anywhere, but you know how it is). The people here care less what your parents did for a living or how rich you are. When Steve Jobs came into this world he was an orphaned child with a bleak future. Yet, he persevered and created the world's biggest company. In order to respect him, the employees here check their ego at the door when they walk in every morning.
I was probably a little bit too superficial and too immature when I worked there, I might give my friends a call and see whether I am now a better fit. Income is also less of a problem now and I can take a few steps back. I can not stress enough that working here will be very different if you had exposure to other ecosystems. Especially the velocity of Apple is much higher than anything you have seen before. People here say that 6 months at Apple are like 1.5 years in normal companies. And I believe they are right.