Was hoping I could get some views from folks who have gotten a top tier MBA in the real estate industry.
Is it worth the time and money?
If not one of the M7 should you just skip the MBA?
Which MBA programs would be the best?
If you're already an analyst/associate at a pere 100 what benefits would an MBA provide?
Thanks for any thoughts y'all may have.
| +51 | Leave brokerage to be GP | 12 | 4h | |
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| +24 | Seeking Career Guidance in Real Estate Development Post-Graduation | 3 | 1d | |
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| +17 | MSRE/MSRED with no RE experience; Naive to think I’ll land a job afterwards? | 4 | 4d | |
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interested as well
Can you let us know what your aims are?
MF? Different location?
I think you could focus on MBAs with strong RE programs (regionally strong ones, and/or T20 and down to M7) and be fine but that's dependent on what your LT and ST goals are.
Depends on your goals and where you want to live, existing network, and experience.
If you are all about prestige and/or breaking into a Blackstone type shop or competitive market like New York or San Francisco with limited experience, you will likely need an MBA.
If you have real experience, a strong network in the market you want to be in, and are targeting middle market firms, you likely don't need an MBA.
Personally, I would echo what the others above have said in that it depends on your goals
Perhaps the largest shops in the gateway markets care most about a schools reputation, but my guess and from what I've read here and elsewhere is that in real estate most shops won't care as much as one might think
Fwiw, I've also been kicking the tires on going to get an MBA and came the decision that while the prestige and glamour of having an MBA from an MBA business schools">M7 wouldn't hurt in any way, I'm not sure it makes sense to assign a school's ranking as your top criteria vs. choosing a top 20 school that has a dedicated RE program such as UNC or UCLA, etc. when you know you'd like to remain in real estate
To further answer the questions you asked, while this may not be the most helpful answer I think it will be the most honest one: I don't believe there are right or wrong answers to your questions but the questions you are asking you need to answer for yourself
Ex.Is it worth the time and money? This is mostly a personal question, everyone will likely have a different answer. Would you like is a resume builder, would you value the experience of going back to school? We can't answer these for you
The main benefits would be a valuable network, somewhat increased knowledge of the space (although some/most would argue that work experience trumps this), and not having to worry later in your career if you get passed up for a position if it was because you didn't have an advanced degree
Anyways, this is how I would think about it. Legal disclaimer: YMMV
I went the MBA route. My situation was a bit unique as my employer would pay for 100%. I found that the majority of people who were getting their MBA and wanted to focus on RE out of school were either trying to break into RE from a different industry, trying to move to an acquisitions position from a asset management or other position, or trying to move into a MF or national developer from a smaller or more regional firm. I would say those candidates made up the vast majority of my RE focused MBA classmates. There were a handful of my classmates that were coming from PERE top 10 firms with goals to pivot to a different property type or geographic market.
All the questions you asked are too personal for a stranger on the internet to give a "good" answer. It can be worth the time and money. There are MBA's outside of MBA business schools">M7 that are great for real estate as real estate is still a very relationship driven business. UNC Flagler is a great example of this. The best MBA program depends on where you would want to work after you graduate. If you are already at a PERE 100 an MBA could allow you to change to a different company, change to a different group, or demonstrate yo your department head you are better prepared to lead a team and advance internally.
This is a really personal decision.
Can you give any details as to salary progression? Role and Salary pre-MBA vs. post-MBA?
Incredibly personal decision.
What is your target post MBA position and can you get there without the MBA?
Are you market agnostic or do you already know where you want to live and what markets you want to work in?
etc.
I went through a similar process, decided to dual track MBA application and job search processes. Ultimately decided to forego the MBA as I ended up getting the post-mba role I wanted in the market I wanted to be in. If you're on the fence, I think dual tracking the processes can be helpful as it'll allow you to compare all of your options.
Barring no insights into OP's situation, this is the best situation. I went with this strategy and ultimately decided that the MBA route served me best (enrolling this year). My situation was hampered by this virus though on the job-searching front.
Can you explain a bit more about the dual track process? Don't think I've heard of it but it sounds interesting as I may be in that position next year. Thanks
All I meant by that, is that I both went through the business school application process and a job search at the same time. if you get a jump on b school apps it’s doable (I.e. take the gmat, visit schools, and talk to students / alumni far in advance of actually working on your application / essays).
If you wanted to stick to the west coast, would you prefer UCLA's Anderson or would you go to Wharton? Any other schools in the west that would land you mega fund roles in the west?
Lastly, what internship positions does an MBA provide? Acquisitions Associate/AVP roles?
I'm trying to get a sense of what schools I should target if I want to be at a megafund RE acquisitions team.
If you’re angling for a top MF, then Wharton would place best no matter the location. Wharton and HBS are still pretty much in their own tiers with regards to PE placement.
Either would be excellent options though and I’d even look into Marshall or Haas as well.
So, see the below, I actually posted this as a comment to a similar question months ago, then re-posted again to a similar question. It is still applicable.....
So someone asked something similar a few weeks ago.... here is what I said, still applicable
"*Here is the general deal with grad degrees right now..... TONS of people are getting them, especially MBAs but increasingly specialized MS degrees like MSF, MSRE, MSRED, etc.
So basic economic theory applies, the greater the supply, the lower the value all else equal. Are firms "demanding" these degrees, short answer, "sort of", but that goes to next point....
The more people have a grad degree, the less unique advantage any particular person will get out of it, BUT, those without are at a greater and greater disadvantage. Hence, the grad degree is becoming the new BS/BA degree (decades ago, simply getting a 4-yr degree gave people the same leg up a grad degree is supposed to do today).
Here is what is happening in the real world. Firm posts a job requiring a BS/BA degree, gets 100 applicants, 10 have grad degrees. Guess who (sometimes) gets interviewed first....
Now, seeing the success of hiring people with grad degrees (sometimes at rates barely more than what people with BS/BA degrees want) they change the job post.... Requires BS/BA, graduate degree PREFERRED. Now, 100 applicants, maybe 50 have grad degrees, want to guess who will get called or not called?
That is the shitty truth of it, the value is eroding, but need is increasing. My advice, if you are young/junior and still establishing yourself, you should probably plan on getting a grad degree if most people along that same path (think about those 5-10 yrs senior to you) have them.
Further, many big firms require them for promotions, making partner, etc. and people do get a passed over for lacking a piece of paper (even if otherwise qualified). That is the world we live in.
If you are okay potentially staying at smaller, entrepreneurial firms (which are common in RE), then not having one may never matter, but your option are theoretically more limited."*
To add on...
The MBA vs. MSRE debate often misses the point. The content is different, and that really is what should be factored. If you already work in CRE and basically know the content (which you should not just assume), then getting a degree that doesn't expand knowledge or skills is not the best path (the 'certification' and network still has value). I honestly don't think employers actually think MBA > MSRE, in fact in many cases MSRE > MBA. The fact that it's hard to get hired at BX and places like that, and they DO hire from HBS and the like when then hire gives people an overconfidence about those MBA programs. Trust me, going to HBS/Wharton/etc. and getting an MBA even if top of class is not a guarantee of an analyst/associate role at one of those 'top tier' firms, they are just super competitive to start.
It’s a bit off topic but to expand on this, I do think a grad degree is the new college degree due to the growing prevalence of these credentials. I think for many of us, it’s a good trend and also an incentive to not get into heavy debt for undergrad (unless for a top tier university).
Let me explain. When you are a 17 - 18 year old, who knows what your potential earning power is? Likely, you don’t know your field of study. You don’t know how you would fare in the work world. Are you driven or want a lifestyle career.
Usually before you apply for a grad degree, say the MBA / MSRE at a reputable school, usually you do have a sense of what you want to do, what you are good at, and identify potential paths for career growth, and likely you have saved up some money. Now is the time to really bet on yourself and invest, and spend the money if your goals are defined (usually your grad school applications and references are supposed to validate that).
Great ”follow on” if you attended a non-target undergrad. I call it follow on because in the grad school dominated world of the current and future; you can bloom later and still achieve. In fact, if my kids couldn’t get into a top university (obviously would love Cal or Stanford); I’d be happy if they attended my alma mater in Hawaii (state school $13-17k/yr tuition) and experienced life there and really crush their classes and grow. I’d want them to try many things and latch onto something that interests them (hopefully with a career in mind). There would be another swipe of the card if they prove to be talented and resourceful, with grad school.
With that context, when is the tipping point where having a grad degree is a distinct advantage for the so-called post-MBA jobs at institutional firms (I’m thinking. associate level)? I think it was between 2010-2016 for CRE. Also to give context, a grad degree holder is more likely to hire another grad degree holder, especially if that boss needed it for their hiring way back. It validates them. Human nature. Hence, this trend is likely not going to reverse itself.
I’ll add. The majority of my peers at the REPE when I was an analyst, and even at a highly institutional development shop, the ones who resisted getting a grad degree the most were those from real estate families, and they had some idea of one day returning to the nest. For those of you without that, it’s the Jungle out there. It’s up or out. Unless you can walk on water, credential up.
Some great points here. Especially that one about people with grad degrees only wanting to hire those with grad degrees, I just realized I am in that camp. Also, I've heard (have several anecdotal data points in NYC) that more and more so-called 'juniors' of big names/families are being sent to grad school (MBA/MSRE/etc) as part of their training before getting real spots in family firms (I know people who have classes with them). I think that is also trying to get rid of the stigma of being 'junior'. That just shows strong this competitive dynamic has become.
Not meant to derail the thread, but I have seen a lot of guys come out of MSRE and MBA programs that land analyst roles.
Is that common? Say they are 25-28 when they graduated, why take an analyst role? I can see the argument for taking an analyst position at a MF or something, but why go through grad school when you'll come out as an analyst at some sponsor or LMM firm? Can't the same be done via networking?
It's possible, and does happen, but its increasingly difficult. You would have to already be in the CRE world (like IS brokerage or whatever) to have a real shot at this. Many getting MSREs or MBAs have little real legit CRE exp (many something related), and/or had an unimpressive UG credential. For this cohort, the marginal gain from an MSRE/MBA can be huge.
If you are already in the game, then the marginal bump will be much less.
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