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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » bankerella's blog
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Cold Hard GMAT: Lessons from fat chicks, black belts, and the 4-minute mile.
 

bankerella's picture
bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 7:30am
Wall

As I showed last week, following commonsense GMAT strategies sometimes gets you hosed.

One example of a popular but very bad strategy: “Don’t go it alone.” In other words, your common sense probably suggests that you use the GMAT community to get oriented and figure out what it’s all about. Then you cop their strategies. You commiserate when you fail. You use them as your support group.

Of course we want to be able to think and act and study like the bottom 99%... but all of us want to somehow magically land in the top 1%. This is bogus. You study in a herd, you fail in a herd.

If you’re a chick, be doubly vigilant about this kind of thinking. Ever notice that the chicks who eat lunch together (in groups, not just 2-3) often seem to gain weight together? It’s because this herd becomes our reference point, and it tells us what’s good enough, rich enough, thin enough. This is slightly more common for chicks than for dudes, but it goes for both genders: where willpower is concerned, friendship (often) facilitates failure.

So how do you use this fact to land in the one percent?

I don’t know how many of you guys have studied martial arts, but you’ve all probably seen someone break boards. There’s a trick to it. If you punch the board, you typically hurt yourself and get nowhere. If you punch four inches beyond the board, it breaks.

What’s that have to do with the GMAT? Let’s say you go on some forums and notice that a whole lot of people (at least some of whom must be smarter than you) say that they can’t get through some big notional wall at 720 or 750 or whatever. And you check the official averages and see that there does appear to be a cliff at 720 or 750.

Should that worry you? No. Be happy about it. Your 99th-percentile strategy depends on a majority of very smart people perceiving that there is a wall there. The wall has to be real for them. But not for you.

Performance barriers are viral. This is a critical basic lesson for performance in almost any area. Take the four-minute mile. A ton of people could have broken the four-minute mile before 1954, but didn’t. They were all focused on how much they had to do in order to get from 4:14 to 4:06.

After Bannister broke 4:00, everyone started breaking it, even high school kids. So I don’t think he was truly the world’s fastest middle-distance runner in ’54. He just didn’t stop at the wall.

And neither will you. Because focus directs force; whatever’s on your mind becomes part of your strategy.

Most people will hear about performance barriers from other GMAT students, then train against it and typically lose to it.

But you are going to quarantine yourself and play a pure 760+ game. Don’t read advice or questions targeted at the sub-750 set. The strategy that helped that guy get from 680 to 710 could knock you from 790 to 740 (this happened to me in practice tests).

And don’t talk to or count/measure people who got into top programs but had low scores. Those people are irrelevant because you will never be like them. They were checking their email every twenty seconds on the day decisions went out. On the other hand, you'll probably do what I did: wake up two hours late, remember what day it is, read admit decision on phone, then roll over and go back to sleep.

To sum it up: Punch the wall and it hurts you. Punch four inches behind the wall and it breaks clean. There’s no pain.

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Comments

wannabeaballer's picture

I'm gonna start a 6 week

wannabeaballer
      O
 
(Senior Orangutan, 460
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 9:03am

I'm gonna start a 6 week series on how to get guys to call you back.

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

Ok, I think four essays on

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 9:37am

Ok, I think four essays on the gmat is enough.

Bankerella, I am happy you did well on your GMATs and got into b-school. However, if you keep making posts like this, folks will assume that you got in on test scores rather than professional success or on being an interesting person.

Test scores are helpful, but they aren't something worth a four or five post series. Buy a Kaplan GMAT 800 book, spend a good 60-80 hours practicing for the exam, get a 780, and go home.

Standardized tests are worth studying for. But if you're obsessing over it, you're doing something wrong. I spent a week and a half of vacation studying for the GREs in between waterskiing and wakeboarding, I got a 780 GMAT equivalent, I forgot about them for two years, I applied to a few graduate programs, I got into my top choice. It shouldn't be this hard.

The Q section is incredibly easy. All you have to do is understand every question they can throw at you and know how to solve them. There is really no excuse for not getting a perfect score on the Q if you are a highschool graduate and know basic algebra.

The V section is a little bit tougher, but you just get out the flash cards and go over words and definitions, then cover the analogy problems over and over again. Again, not too hard to score in the top 1%.

Work hard, play hard.

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onedumbmonkey's picture

I enjoy the motivational

onedumbmonkey
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 84
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 9:50am

I enjoy the motivational essays Bankerella,

IlliniProgrammer is probably jealous he didn't read your posts before he took the GMAT.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"

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Abdel's picture

Not sure what the big deal is

Abdel
      O
 
(Neanderthal, 2,064
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:01am

Not sure what the big deal is with this GMAT thing. My friends who took it here in mtl all got 770 and + and they're not even native english speakers.

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In reply to onedumbmonkey
IlliniProgrammer's picture

onedumbmonkey: I enjoy the

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:09am
onedumbmonkey:

I enjoy the motivational essays Bankerella,

IlliniProgrammer is probably jealous he didn't read your posts before he took the GMAT.

Eh. I got into my top choice program. I am all for studying for the GMAT. I studied for the GREs. What I am not for is obsessing over the GMAT. It's one exam that helps provide a decent basis for your intellect if there are any questions about it.

It is fairly easy for a banker to get a 780 and have a shot at an 800 on the exam. You learn to do the quantitative questions carefully, you spend about 50 hours studying words, and you're there. Then you get on with your life. Go kitesurfing. Buy a motorcycle and learn to race it on the track. Volunteer with inner-city kids. Run a marathon.

A couple posts on the GMATs are helpful. A series of four posts pretending it is the most important factor in b-school admits is an unhealthy obsession, IMHO. This is a banking forum that happens to care a little about b-school admits, not a GMAT forum. Let's not obsess too much.

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
onedumbmonkey's picture

IlliniProgrammer: onedumbmo

onedumbmonkey
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 84
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:26am
IlliniProgrammer:
onedumbmonkey:

I enjoy the motivational essays Bankerella,

IlliniProgrammer is probably jealous he didn't read your posts before he took the GMAT.

Eh. I got into my top choice program. I am all for studying for the GMAT. I studied for the GREs. What I am not for is obsessing over the GMAT. It's one exam that helps provide a decent basis for your intellect if there are any questions about it.

It is fairly easy for a banker to get a 780 and have a shot at an 800 on the exam. You learn to do the quantitative questions carefully, you spend about 50 hours studying words, and you're there. Then you get on with your life. Go kitesurfing. Buy a motorcycle and learn to race it on the track. Volunteer with inner-city kids. Run a marathon.

A couple posts on the GMATs are helpful. A series of four posts pretending it is the most important factor in b-school admits is an unhealthy obsession, IMHO. This is a banking forum that happens to care a little about b-school admits, not a GMAT forum. Let's not obsess too much.

I see your point IlliniProgrammer, however I would agrue that your situation is different than a lot of other people reading posts about the GMAT. We have not yet applied to business school and I know that for my personal situation I will have to get a great score to go to my top school. I feel that if I obesse over the GMAT I will accomplish my GMAT score.

I am not even sure why you would choose to waste your time reading this post if you already got into your top school? Sounds like an inefficient use of your time IMHO.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"

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In reply to onedumbmonkey
IlliniProgrammer's picture

onedumbmonkey: I see your

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:32am
onedumbmonkey:

I see your point IlliniProgrammer, however I would agrue that your situation is different than a lot of other people reading posts about the GMAT. We have not yet applied to business school and I know that for my personal situation I will have to get a great score to go to my top school. I feel that if I obesse over the GMAT I will accomplish my GMAT score.

I am not even sure why you would choose to waste your time reading this post if you already got into your top school? Sounds like an inefficient use of your time IMHO.

I have some surplus time right now. So does bankerella, apparently, given that she has also gotten into her top school and has posted five essays on the need to get a decent GMAT.

Spending the time to get a 760 or 780 GMAT is worth it. However, this should not require obsessing. Give it 60 hours of study and you'll get there. This is more like running a seven minute mile, not a four minute mile. You give it a week or two of practice, and you just do it. Then you get back to the important stuff- like the essays.

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
bankerella's picture

IlliniProgrammer: onedumbmo

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:36am
IlliniProgrammer:
onedumbmonkey:

I enjoy the motivational essays Bankerella,

IlliniProgrammer is probably jealous he didn't read your posts before he took the GMAT.

Eh. I got into my top choice program. I am all for studying for the GMAT. I studied for the GREs. What I am not for is obsessing over the GMAT. It's one exam that helps provide a decent basis for your intellect if there are any questions about it.

It is fairly easy for a banker to get a 780 and have a shot at an 800 on the exam. You learn to do the quantitative questions carefully, you spend about 50 hours studying words, and you're there. Then you get on with your life. Go kitesurfing. Buy a motorcycle and learn to race it on the track. Volunteer with inner-city kids. Run a marathon.

A couple posts on the GMATs are helpful. A series of four posts pretending it is the most important factor in b-school admits is an unhealthy obsession, IMHO. This is a banking forum that happens to care a little about b-school admits, not a GMAT forum. Let's not obsess too much.

Wait, are you talking about your GRE score as if it were a GMAT score equivalent? Because you study words on the GRE, not the GMAT.

IMO, there's no comparison. I never studied for the GREs but took them while studying for my GMATs to keep me sharp. Got a perfect GRE long before I broke the 99th percentile in GMAT. They are extremely easy in comparison. There's just no time pressure, and the verbals follow far simpler rules.

See my other WSO blog posts

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

I think your comment here is

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 10:40am

I think your comment here is really helpful to my point. It seems like you're saying it's a lot easier for these kids to do the GREs and submit them for b-school. (Most of the M7, including HBS, Stanford, and Wharton, accept GRE scores instead of GMATs) It's fairly easy to get a 760 GMAT equivalent on the GREs- I spent about 60 hours studying for them, and the schools go off of ETS's GMAT algorithm:

http://www.ets.org/gre/institutions/about/mba/comp...

Standardized tests aren't that complicated. Study for them, get a good score, and go home. Folks can use the 140 hours they save to do something they enjoy, write their essays, or become more interesting people.

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
WallStreetOasis.com's picture

IlliniProgrammer: So then why

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,190
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:01am
IlliniProgrammer:

So then why not just save yourself all the hassle and take the GREs? Most of the M7, including HBS and Stanford, accept them for GMAT equivalency these days, anyways.

Take the GREs, get a 780 GMAT equivalent, go home and work on your essays. Why spend 200 hours trying to get a 760 GMAT when you can spend 60 hours getting a 780 GMAT equivalent? You can spend those other 140 hours on something a lot more fun.

Actually your comment here is really helpful. If you're saying it's easier to get a 760 or 780 GMAT equivalent on the GREs, that's great. Let's steer these kids that way. There's no more need to obsess over this and devote weeks of your life to an otherwise meaningless exam. Spend a week studying for the GREs, get a 760 GMAT equivalent, go (hang gliding) (kitesurfing) (volunteer) for the 140 hours you save.

Interesting point here...so do adcoms view the GRE as favorably as the GMAT though? Isn't that a risky assumption...maybe things have changed since I graduated in 2010, but at Wharton I don't think there were too many people that just took the GRE.

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cinnamontoastcrunch's picture

these...posts...must...stop..

cinnamontoastcrunch
      O
 
(Orangutan, 262
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:01am

these...posts...must...stop...

My WSO Blog

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In reply to WallStreetOasis.com
IlliniProgrammer's picture

WallStreetOasis.com: Interest

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:08am
WallStreetOasis.com:

Interesting point here...so do adcoms view the GRE as favorably as the GMAT though? Isn't that a risky assumption...maybe things have changed since I graduated in 2010, but at Wharton I don't think there were too many people that just took the GRE.

I dunno. I see an increasing trend towards allowing the GRE by schools- with my favorite school- Booth- being one of the few holdouts. I think it is sort of turning into an ACT/SAT thing.

They all use ETS's algorithm as a basis for comparing scores. ETS had a similar algorithm for ACTs to SATs. But frankly, I'd much rather submit a 750V/800Q GRE (770 GMAT equiv) than a 750 GMAT, and it looks like ETS is already factoring some conservativism on the conversion (Converting an 800Q/800V GRE as a 790 GMAT).

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
WallStreetOasis.com's picture

IlliniProgrammer: WallStree

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,190
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:16am
IlliniProgrammer:
WallStreetOasis.com:

Interesting point here...so do adcoms view the GRE as favorably as the GMAT though? Isn't that a risky assumption...maybe things have changed since I graduated in 2010, but at Wharton I don't think there were too many people that just took the GRE.

I dunno. I see an increasing trend towards allowing the GRE by schools- with my favorite school- Booth- being one of the few holdouts. I think it is sort of turning into an ACT/SAT thing.

They all use ETS's algorithm as a basis for comparing scores. ETS had a similar algorithm for ACTs to SATs. But frankly, I'd much rather submit a 750V/800Q GRE (770 GMAT equiv) than a 750 GMAT, and it looks like ETS is already making conservative assumptions on the conversion (Converting an 800Q/800V GRE as a 790 GMAT).

Yeah, I guess my question is if allowing the GRE really giving it the same weight/importance/trust? even after using the ETS algo to compare (in the minds of the adcoms).

cinnamontoastcrunch:

these...posts...must...stop...

nobody.....forcing.....you......to......read

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
Abdel's picture

IlliniProgrammer: I dunno. I

Abdel
      O
 
(Neanderthal, 2,064
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:25am
IlliniProgrammer:

I dunno. I see an increasing trend towards allowing the GRE by schools- with my favorite school- Booth- being one of the few holdouts. .

Buddy of mine got a perfect GRE score and is headed to Booth for a double Ph.D Econ/Finance (part booth, part U of chicago).

Found on their website for the PhD program:

''GMAT and GRE
Applicants must also complete the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT) or the Graduate Record Examinations (GRE). For most areas of study, applicants may take either the GMAT or GRE. Exceptions are:

For Economics - GRE is required.
For Finance - GRE is preferred; GMAT is acceptable.
For the Joint Program in Financial Economics - GRE is required.''

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/phd/admissions.aspx

If they prefer the GRE for the PhD, does it mean that the GMAT is easier?

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M Friedman's picture

I would honeslty rather hear

M Friedman
     
 
(King Kong, 1,007
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:31am

I would honeslty rather hear about what its like to be a woman in a male dominated industry than the GMAT

See my WSO blogs here.

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

Yeah, I guess my question is

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:32am
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Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
bankerella's picture

IlliniProgrammer: I think

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:34am

See my other WSO blog posts

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In reply to bankerella
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Well, again, the B-schools

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:54am

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
Going Concern's picture

IlliniProgrammer: It's fairly

Going Concern
     
 
 
(King Kong, 1,870
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:57am

You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game.

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In reply to Going Concern
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Going Concern: If it's easier

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:02pm

Work hard, play hard.

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21 Lives's picture

bankerella: To sum it up:

21 Lives
     
 
(Orangutan, 266
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:30pm

My WSO Blog

"Unbelievably Believable" -- RG3

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WallStreetOasis.com's picture

Illini - thanks, interesting

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,190
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:37pm

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sayandarula's picture

hey bankerella~ thanks for

sayandarula
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,809
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:47pm

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

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sayandarula's picture

double post.

sayandarula
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,809
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:48pm

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

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In reply to 21 Lives
IlliniProgrammer's picture

21 Lives: bankerella: To

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:47pm

Work hard, play hard.

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sayandarula's picture

IlliniProgrammer: Get a 780

sayandarula
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,809
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 12:50pm

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
labanker's picture

IlliniProgrammer: The Q

labanker
      PE
 
 
(Orangutan, 333
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 1:01pm
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In reply to labanker
IlliniProgrammer's picture

labanker: Thanks for clearing

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 1:04pm

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to sayandarula
bankerella's picture

sayandarula: IlliniProgramm

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 1:42pm

See my other WSO blog posts

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
charlie 09's picture

IlliniProgrammer: Going

charlie 09
      CO
 
(Senior Baboon, 180
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:23pm
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IlliniProgrammer's picture

For the record, women make up

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:28pm

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
charlie 09's picture

IlliniProgrammer: For the

charlie 09
      CO
 
(Senior Baboon, 180
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:42pm
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In reply to charlie 09
IlliniProgrammer's picture

charlie

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:43pm

Work hard, play hard.

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In reply to IlliniProgrammer
charlie 09's picture

IlliniProgrammer: charlie

charlie 09
      CO
 
(Senior Baboon, 180
 
Points)
 on 6/25/12 at 11:50pm
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keensetofpeepers's picture

Absolutely agree that

keensetofpeepers
     
 
(Baboon, 147
 
Points)
 on 6/27/12 at 12:12pm
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charlie 09's picture

If you have a crappy story

charlie 09
      CO
 
(Senior Baboon, 180
 
Points)
 on 6/27/12 at 12:44pm
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In reply to keensetofpeepers
IlliniProgrammer's picture

keensetofpeepers: Absolutely

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 6/27/12 at 1:16pm

Work hard, play hard.

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keensetofpeepers's picture

ok, I think you're now

keensetofpeepers
     
 
(Baboon, 147
 
Points)
 on 6/27/12 at 1:47pm
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TW Pepper's picture

The GRE is easier than the

TW Pepper
      IB
 
(Senior Monkey, 77
 
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 on 7/1/12 at 2:01pm
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You should not violate any other law or regulation, including, without limitation, the rules and regulations of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the national or other securities exchanges, especially including the rule against making false or misleading statements to manipulate the price of a security or the rule requiring you to disclose any compensation you may receive for describing a security.

You should not access WallStreetOasis.com by any means other than through the interfaces we provide for use in accessing our services or use any automated means, including, without limitation, agents, robots, scripts, or spiders, to access, monitor, copy, or harvest data from any part of our sites, except those automated means that we have approved in advance and in writing.

The Company, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to remove any postings, or deny access by any individuals, for any reason or no reason.

If you see something that you feel is a violation of the these Terms and Conditions, please notify us by emailing wallstreetoasis at wallstreetoasis.com.

We reserve the right to change the Terms and Conditions at any time. Changes will be posted on the applicable web page.

Use of Material.

The Company authorizes you to view and download a single copy of the material on www.WallStreetOasis.com (the "Web Site") solely for your personal, noncommercial use. By using the Web Site you are giving the Company the sole right to use any and all content you generate or publish on the site for commercial, non-commercial or promotional purposes. This includes any and all forum posts, comments, blog posts or any other material you generate on the Web Site.

The contents of this Web Site, such as text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, software and other items (collectively, "Material"), are protected under both United States and foreign copyright, trademark and other laws. All Material is the property of the Company or its content suppliers or clients. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement and assembly) of all content on this Web Site is the exclusive property of the Company and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of the Material may violate copyright, trademark, and other laws. You must retain all copyright, trademark, service-mark and other proprietary notices contained in the original Material on any copy you make of the Material. You may not sell or modify the Material or reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute, or otherwise use the Material in any way for any public or commercial purpose. The use of the Material on any other web site or in a networked computer environment for any purpose is prohibited.

You shall not copy or adapt the HTML code that the Company creates to generate its pages. It is also protected by the Company?s copyright.

Acceptable Site Use.

General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Forum Topics

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  • Thoughts on this? Heister brings up a good question: <em>"Who else is going to the job? Which senior Goldman partner is planning on retiring and needs to shield millions in stock options from taxes?"</em> via Bloomberg: <strong>Obama Says Bernanke Has Been at Fed...
    Bye Bye Bernanke? Who Would Be Next?
  • Hi all - As i have been looking through this site, i have found their seems to be a lack on anything Australian. While that is understandable seeming as the industry is US focused, i thought i'd take the opportunity to try and develop a useful collection of tid-bits and facts by sharing...
    Answering Australian I-Banking Questions!
  • As summer rolls around, many folks leave the office a little earlier on Thursday or Friday nights to make it out for a cocktail event or weekend away from town. There will be a solid amount of extra-industry networking going on, to say the least. And by that I mean sloppy cocktail parties. But...
    Summer Cocktail Events - 5 Tips to Keep the Conversation Flowing
  • ...
    -
  • Hi everyone, I got admitted in the MSF programs at Olin and McCombs recently. Both B.schools are well recognized in their respective regions but I am very confused because of the following factors. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. I would like to work in IB/ Asset Management. I...
    McCombs MSF or Olins MSF(corp track)
  • Is it possible to get sponsored for series 7 as an undergraduate intern? The company is indeed a member of FINRA. Was thinking of reaching out to one of the executives. Any advice or suggestions are greatly...
    Series 7 while on undergrad internship
  • I've supposedly had one unread PM since registering... but there's clearly no new messages there. Not a big deal but it is annoying, any way to fix...
    "1 unread message"
  • I've uploaded the IBD template provided by Mergers and Inquistions to expedite the process of resume review. I believe it would be helpful for any prospective monkeys to review this template before posting. Hope this helps. ...
    Resume Posting
  • Would appreciate it if someone could breakdown my resume and inform me about any glaring...
    Resume Critique please
  • Any rule of thumb for dry cleaning these? I generally try to do it twice a year, depending on how often I wear the tie. Always seems to put them back to...
    Care for neck ties
  • Does anyone have PE recruiting resources they'd be willing to share/ trade? I'm looking for modeling tests (with solutions) and have a few tests from top tier funds to trade in exchange. Any other recruiting resources would be appreciated as well. Please PM me. Thanks...
    PE recruiting resources
  • ...
    city boy by Geraint Anderson
  • Hey all, I will be matriculating at NYU for MBA this fall and am considering IBD since the recruiting process seems fairly reliable. I have a few questions about IBD at this level (some of these are dupes from my post "IBD pay ... really that great?" that I would like more color...
    Questions about post-MBA level IBD
  • Hi, if a story is printed in the FT or WSJ, it can apparently have quite a significant impact on the market. partly because everyone working in finance is reading at least one of the two. but what about other daily newspapers? assume a similar story is printed in the times or the guardian. what the...
    Which impact on markets do newspapers have (excluding Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, etc.)?
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Highest Ranked Content

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<em>Mod note: make sure to see the great comment below by CompBanker</em> I come from a small town where nobody had ever heard of consulting or IB. I was fortunate enough to attend a top target college (a good Ivy) and land a gig in IB at a BB/EB. I'm starting full time this...
Finance Culture - Personalities
<strong>Background</strong> I randomly discovered WSO nearly seven years ago just weeks after I secured a FT MM IB position. The website was extremely nascent at the time with only a few thousand registered users. The majority of the users were college students with only a handful...
How WSO has enhanced my IB/PE career
<em>Mod note: for the tl;dr version, skip down to "Circa 1960"</em> First, some background. I’m going to explain how we got to where we are today in order to frame our place in history and our model of life, so bear with me...
Your Model of Life Is Wrong
After over one year in the making, the <strong><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/2013-wso-compensation-report-full">2013 WSO Compensation Report</a></strong> is here! Access to the FULL 108 page 2013 WSO Compensation Report is <strong>100%...
2013 WSO Compensation Report has Arrived
Where do i even start..I learned so much from this forum. The brutally honest opinions, sincere willingness to help, the technical information and random tips on everything has been absolutely crucial for me landing this offer. Coming from a non-target I didnt get that 3rd year SA position at...
Thank you WSO! Got my FT Offer! ADVICE NEEDED
When I first started as a PE analyst, I constantly struggled with judging the amount of time I should spend on reviewing sourced deals. How much time is enough to really get a handle on the company’s revenue streams? How granular do I need my analysis to be on industry threats? With this...
Misguided Efforts: A Cautionary Tale
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
Any Asset Management people here who could give me some insights on it, such as the nature of the work, the pay, the hours, the potential for career advancement, ect? I was looking into IB before but I've decided that I would rather pursue a career that's more intellectually...
Asset Management a better choice than Investment Banking?
<img src="//img.pandawhale.com/48721-Sexually-Oblivious-Female-Meme-Ze2w.png" alt="Sexually Oblivious Female Meme - Favorite Position? I would like to be a CEO.">
If you could be the richest person in the world with your dream job only as a public virgin forever would you do it?
Many of the questions that have come in surround recruiting for front office Wall Street careers from a non-target so we’ll start with some ideas for recruiting, move on to interviewing, preparing for the job and finally long-term career management advice. Before we begin, it has been...
Stand Out as a Non-Target: Recruiting (Part 1 of 4)
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