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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » I-Banking Bullpen
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Am I being underpaid?
 

tgfp20's picture
tgfp20
     
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 5:30am
underpaid.jpg

Alright, so let me give you guys the rundown (FYI this is my first post).

I interned (unpaid) at a middle market investment bank for 3 months (Sep-Dec 2011) and was offered a job with the firm at the end of the year. The terms were $40k salary + a discretionary bonus of up to 100% of my base salary (so possible $40k bonus). I accepted the position and am still with the firm as of now. The hours here aren't too brutal, I average 12 hour days but during peak times I may have to pull 2-3 all nighters in a period of a couple weeks.

My bonus will be paid out at the end of the year, but I have absolutely no idea what it will be. As of right now the $40k salary I am making seems ridiculously low for 12 hour days plus having to pull all nighters and working on the weekends and pretty much no vacation. I compare this with friends working at Deloitte making $50-60k working 9-5 and it makes me wonder why am I still where I am at.

So, my question to everyone is, should I work for the firm for another year? What percent of my bonus do I need to receive to continue to work for the firm? If my bonus is terribly low, how do I approach my MDs with the news that I am leaving based on compensation?

I am happy to provide more information if that helps.

Additional info:

I am located in Southern California
Deal sizes (primarily sell-side) have ranged between $10-50mm
Bonus is paid at the end of the year

Thanks in advance!

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Tags:
  • 1st Year Analyst Salary
  • I-Banking Bullpen
nonos's picture

Where are you located? It

nonos
     
 
(Baboon, 154
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 12:42pm

Where are you located?
It really sounds like you're underpaid. Honestly, I wouldn't put too much hope on your bonus because if they've been that cheap with you so far, they probably will be cheap with your bonus too... Anyway, even with 40k bonus, your total comp would be far below the street.

Start looking for other firms...

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som1's picture

Def start looking around esp

som1
      IB
 
(Monkey, 64
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 12:51pm

Def start looking around esp if ur in NYC

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BBnkr10's picture

Yeah, I agree. You are being

BBnkr10
      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,107
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 12:53pm

Yeah, I agree. You are being underpaid for the hours, stress, and work you are putting in. How is their deal flow? When you say MM, around what market cap are you talking about? 40k is def under the street norm. Do you get your bonus towards the end of this month?

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pacman007's picture

underpaid.

pacman007
     
 
(Gorilla, 668
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 12:56pm

underpaid.

"Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a Champion" - Muhammad Ali

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asiamoney's picture

Is this in NYC?

asiamoney
     
 
(King Kong, 1,117
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 12:58pm

Is this in NYC?

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pplstuff's picture

If you get the 100% and you

pplstuff
      CD
 
 
(Orangutan, 296
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 12:58pm

If you get the 100% and you feel you're learning a lot and you're making the right connections and you like run-on sentences, then keep the job. Otherwise, I'd leave right after the check clears.

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.

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tgfp20's picture

Thanks for all of the

tgfp20
     
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:18pm

Thanks for all of the responses, very much appreciated. Answers to your questions below:

I am located in Southern California, and the deals I have completed this year (pretty much all sell-side) have ranged from $10-50mm, with one debt deal that was $150mm+. My bonus is paid out at the end of this month (although I can see my MDs coming up with an excuse to delay my bonus).

I have an employee review in two weeks, and I am thinking about breaking the news that I am not going to tolerate such low compensation anymore and am going to leave, although it will significantly impact my year end bonus. I expect to get destroyed by my MDs that I am making a terrible decision, so any more input as to what I should do is appreciated.

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Kassad's picture

Most definitely underpaid.

Kassad
      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,193
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:31pm

Most definitely underpaid. Unless you get over >$20K for YE bonus, you're doing slave labor. $80K is a respectable number for what you described, in my opinion.

I think you should kindly discuss the terms of your salary at the YE review. Reason being:

- You go balls to the wall and demand more money = they may shit on you with the bonus
- You kindly assert that the work you do is worth more and that you can find better work elsewhere = they take you seriously and will likely not shit on you with the bonus.

The most important thing in this situation is to have your bases covered. Make sure you can or do find employment elsewhere. Once the bonus is in, if you still don't like the numbers, make good on your assertion and bounce.

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Black Jack's picture

I would wait until you see

Black Jack
      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,180
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:32pm

I would wait until you see your bonus figure to do anything. if it is 40k, then at a small MM firm in socal that sounds about what I would expect you to make. If it is 20 or less then speak with management.

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TechBanking's picture

Wait to see what your bonus

TechBanking
      EN
 
 
(King Kong, 1,111
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:39pm

Wait to see what your bonus is. $40k is way low, but $80k a boutique in SoCal may not be. If you like working there, you may want to see where total comp falls out and then have a conversation. If it is low, tell them that you know that you are well below market. If it ends up at $80k, that isn't terrible as a first year at a boutique. Ask them what your salary progression will be and say that you live off of your salary, and it's been hard making bills at $40k. No reason to risk your current job without knowing what the playing field is. If they screw you then, yes, head for the doors.

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jr253's picture

Why on earth would you bring

jr253
     
 
(Monkey, 63
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:39pm

Why on earth would you bring that up in a review, presumably before you've found something else?

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Soros's picture

Deloitte 9-5? Please show me

Soros
      O
 
(Baboon, 100
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:41pm

Deloitte 9-5? Please show me where.

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Bearearns's picture

When you say Southern

Bearearns
     
 
(Orangutan, 275
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 1:44pm

When you say Southern California. Is that in a city or in suburbs? Because pay differential could be due to that.

Friends at Deloitte are they working in city?

I wouldn't make a rash decision until.... a week after bonus. Can you live fine if you don't find work for a year? What is your financial status?

It may be good to set a bonus target, but just think about finances before quitting. If you quit MBA back on target or just try to find work. You may get raise in bonus talks and may be something you should ask after you get bonus number. Might be appropriate to quote market statistics/friends are making etc. See what they say. Make sure to do it in a nice way and that your appreciative of bonus.

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futurectdoc's picture

You're at a small boutique,

futurectdoc
      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,675
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 2:00pm

You're at a small boutique, 10-50 is the lower MM, the pay isn't great, but what are your other options? I'd look to lateral.

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ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

1) Do not express

ThaVanBurenBoyz
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,516
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 2:11pm

1) Do not express disappointment in pay until the bonus hits your account.
2) Do not tell them you're going to leave. Ever. Go get an offer for them to compete with. They will assume you're looking after (1) above.

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accountingbyday's picture

Do NOT bring this up during

accountingbyday
      CF
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 820
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 2:11pm
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tgfp20's picture

Thanks again for the

tgfp20
     
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 2:36pm
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ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

Actually, I wouldn't express

ThaVanBurenBoyz
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,516
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 3:13pm
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idragmazda's picture

Sounds awful. Put together

idragmazda
      PE
 
 
(Gorilla, 728
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 3:25pm

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this

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asiamoney's picture

ThaVanBurenBoyz: Actually, I

asiamoney
     
 
(King Kong, 1,117
 
Points)
 on 12/5/12 at 3:45pm
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mgotrade's picture

tgfp, you're spot on with the

mgotrade
      CS
 
(Senior Monkey, 67
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 6:40am

"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."

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frooter's picture

yes you probably are, but

frooter
     
 
(Baboon, 124
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 6:50am
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mongoose's picture

Back Office monkeys get paid

mongoose
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,028
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 8:38am
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ladubs111's picture

Hmm you guys are all too used

ladubs111
      IA
 
(Senior Orangutan, 432
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 10:02am
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MistaBooks's picture

You may be underpaid, but if

MistaBooks
     
 
(Orangutan, 289
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 10:02am
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chrisjr's picture

ladubs111: If I was you, i'd

chrisjr
      RE
 
(Senior Monkey, 66
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 10:25am
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milehigh's picture

Based on similar deal sizes,

milehigh
      IB
 
 
(Baboon, 147
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 10:32am
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neilol's picture

Not to highjack a thread - It

neilol
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 251
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 12:33pm
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Bobby Digital's picture

Just ask them what type of

Bobby Digital
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 94
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 12:42pm
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tgfp20's picture

Thanks again for the

tgfp20
     
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 12:51pm
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jpc100's picture

Just my two cents, but I

jpc100
      O
 
(Monkey, 51
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 1:10pm
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ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

tgfp20: What are your

ThaVanBurenBoyz
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,516
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 1:16pm
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blackjack21's picture

Don't ask about it. To sum it

blackjack21
     
 
(Orangutan, 268
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 1:46pm

http://sportstanker.blogspot.com/

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George87's picture

You should expect 20-30% of

George87
      IB
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 243
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 3:10pm
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monkeyDD's picture

As long as your bonus is >=

monkeyDD
     
 
(Monkey, 55
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 4:57pm
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SirTradesaLot's picture

My viewpoint is that if they

SirTradesaLot
     
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,514
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 7:15pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

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n1cktm's picture

Honestly, even if you get a

n1cktm
     
 
(Orangutan, 304
 
Points)
 on 12/6/12 at 9:22pm
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tgfp20's picture

Thanks again guys. I should

tgfp20
     
 
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 12/7/12 at 4:30pm
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SirTradesaLot's picture

tgfp20: Thanks again guys. I

SirTradesaLot
     
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,514
 
Points)
 on 12/7/12 at 4:51pm

Turbo leverage for capital explosion -- BD Capital

My WSO Blog

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Higheck123's picture

I think you got some bunk

Higheck123
     
 
(Senior Orangutan, 497
 
Points)
 on 12/8/12 at 10:43am
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The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Forum Topics

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  • does anybody have a shipping model or any idea where i can get info on how these companies are...
    shipping
  • I was wondering how computer-savvy ( leaving aside Excel/PowerPoint skills) you need to be to do well in consulting? Assuming you have an assignment where you need to help a company improve its IT Strategy, are you screwed if you dont know how to code or if you havent taken ANY CS classes in...
    Computer Skills
  • Incoming SA at a BB. Just wondering, does it typically go straight into the 80-100 hours or gradually pick up (maybe a week or so)? Obviously training aside, but once you're actually working....
    How Quick Does It Pick Up?
  • So I stared looking for an internship in late April (I know). The first interview that I got was with Wolters Kluwer for an internal controls internship. They offered me the internship at the end of the interview. I had no other offers on the table, it was mid-May, and they're paying me, so I...
    Wolters Kluwer Internship
  • Hi, I am currently a junior in college and I am interested in pursing a career in management consulting or investment banking. Which internship seems more beneficial in terms of my desired career path: 1) Operations Internship at a Fortune 500 biotech company vs. 2) Commercial banking...
    Operations Internship vs Commercial Banking Internship
  • I'm curious to as what websites / free sources are available to stay up to date on the oil and gas industry. I have a subscription to WSJ and try to read their Energy column daily, but was wondering what everyone else uses. ...
    Oil & Gas News Outlets
  • Hi everyone I was wondering the other day if I ever make it to the S&T division of a BB, how's the chance I get transferred to the US (preferably to NYC), without having a green card and stuff? Is it done through some sponsorship...
    Transferring from London to NYC
  • Hi, does anyone know what exit opps exist for secondary advisory (think blackstone's secondary advisory etc) analysts and any intel on the comp would be...
    Secondary advisory
  • I have a modeling test for a IB analyst position at a boutique bank. I don't really have any modeling experience besides what I learned in school. Is there something I should focus on to prepare for this exercise? Any advice would be appreciated....
    modeling test
  • Does a first year analyst's compensation really put them in the lower-middle class? More specifically, how comfortably can a first year IBD analyst in New York on a 70k base + 20-40k bonus live? If not as flashy as is portrayed in movies (forgive me), then why do so many people want to break...
    Another compensation question
  • Is it appropriate to wear black dress shirt for a business casual environment? If not, what colors are considered ok?...
    Black Shirts
  • <a href="http://dealbreaker.com/2013/05/wouldnt-it-be-nice-for-once-in-your-life-to-get-there-ahead-of-the-major-institutions-id-like-you-to-start-a-relationship-with-firm-and-buy-shares-or-stock/">Dealbreaker</a> wrote (off Buzzfeed) today on some stockbrokers power phrases....
    “This account will come back to you in spades”
  • Background: Semi-target finance major, 3.2 gpa (terrible freshman/sophomore, excellent junior/senior years), previous IB internship at boutique I just graduated and I was unable to leverage my IB internship into a FT offer at a big bank. No return offer either because the bank I interned at...
    Need some advice - take anything?
  • <em>Mod note: Best of Bankerella - this was originally posted 10/1/12</em> I occasionally get PMed by people at colleges I’ve never heard of before, asking if they have a shot at IBD. Folks, why IBD? The finance world is broad and varied, and there are a million ways to make...
    My Biggest Career Mistake to Date: Prestige
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This is the reaction any analyst who has ever worked in banking has when you say you want to leave banking for business school then come back as a post b school associate... <img src="http://epicpinterestfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/how-i-met-your-mother-barney-why.gif"...
Why You DON'T Leave Banking for B School Just to Come Right Back...
Inspired by comments from this: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/basic-guide-ramping-up-on-a-company-with-public-information-part-1-of-3 Lets just jump in. <strong>Technology:</strong> In this space there are really two metrics that matter the most, sales growth and EPS...
Beginners Guide to Valuation and Metrics By Sector
I'm currently a Private Equity Analyst in Shanghai, China. Academically, I graduated from a target school majoring in Economics and Chinese. I also spent my time at college as the president of an on-campus student organization related to Finance and Economics and a volunteer for a local...
Ask me anything… I'm a Private Equity Analyst in Shanghai
For better or for worse, there’s a very unique feeling when everything goes completely according to plan yet nobody seems to care or notice. Such is the case with our favorite company of the moment, Tesla Motors. For those unaware, TSLA has rocketed upwards since its Q1 earnings release,...
A Perfect Storm
I work as a long/short equity analyst at a large hedge fund. I've been lucky enough to be more than just a model monkey early on in my career, but have also been exposed to the stress of being measured on returns. I primarily cover consumer and TMT names. I went the typical path (target...
I'm a Hedge Fund Analyst - Ask Me Anything
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
<em>Mod note: Best of Bankerella - this was originally posted 10/1/12</em> I occasionally get PMed by people at colleges I’ve never heard of before, asking if they have a shot at IBD. Folks, why IBD? The finance world is broad and varied, and there are a million ways to...
My Biggest Career Mistake to Date: Prestige
Someone was asking me about this in PM and I wrote a long and detailed reply about what it is like to work in Big 4 and what advice I would give to people thinking about interning / working there. Thought it might be useful for others so my reply is below. Happy to answer any...
Working In Big 4 Audit in London
<em>Mode note: Blast from the past - "Best of Eddie" - this one is originally from December 2010.</em> Monty09 may have gotten the best plug yet for his <a href="http://energyrodeo.com/">Energy Rodeo</a> in Houston next month, and it came from none...
New York vs. Houston
This is just fantastic. After sitting through Carl Levin and John McCain spewing a bunch of nonsense about how Apple doesn't pay enough taxes (despite being the #3 taxpaying company in America behind ExxonMobil and Chevron), Rand Paul lit them up about what a travesty it was to blame Apple...
Rand Paul GOES OFF at Apple Hearing
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