Wealth Management Into Investment Banking...And Beyond
Is it possible to begin a career in wealth management and ultimately transition into PE/HF?
An example timeline: Begin at very successful wealth management firm. After 1st year pass Series 7. After 3rd year, attend school for MBA in finance (or related). After biz school, begin as an associate (ideally at BB) in IBD. Pay my dues, pick up PE/HF job.
Is this possible, albeit along an unconventional path? I am obsessed with finance and doing it all in Russian related business, I just didn't figure this out until halfway through my junior year of university...Therefore just trying to get my foot in the door of the finance game.
Any thoughts would be much appreciated, really just trying to make the right choices. Thanks.
This doesn't sound that unconventional, given that you're going through an MBA program (just make sure it's a top program). It'd be harder if you were trying to go straight from PWM to IB, but most people use b-school to rebrand themselves.
I actually contacted a HF manager who started in acounting, transitioned into S&T after a year, went into Wealth Management after the two year trading analyst stint, received training and mentorship from a really famous trader/fund manager, worked as portfolio manager for a global macro fund and is now running his own macro HF. No b-school beyond undergrad.
Alright this is all great to hear. Thanks a million
Hey I'm currently in your position. Just wanted to hear any updates since then
Wealth Management: a common stepping stone for IBD internships/full-time jobs? (Originally Posted: 10/10/2012)
Hi. I'm currently a sophomore student. Through a series of lucky occurrences, I was able to get a good wealth management internship for 5 weeks over this past summer. I'm really aiming for IBD/S&T by the summer after my junior year. The executive vice president at the relevant wealth management firm really liked me, and I feel like she would want me back next summer. Are wealth management internships a good way to eventually get internships/full-time jobs for bulge brackets in IBD and S&T? Any stories/anecdotes to back this up?
No. The fact of the matter is that PWM will do nothing to help you get a job in IBD. It is better than nothing for the summer of your freshman year since it's 'finance', but you need to bust your ass and contact alumni at your school or cold email MDs or Partners at regional investment banks near you. Those you can leverage to get a junior SA, which will give you an opportunity to secure a FT offer. Do a search on the WSO Company Database for the zip codes around you, go to their websites, and cold email them. The higher up your alumni are, the better chance you have of getting an internship for your sophomore summer in IBD.
I think you did good to get it and to impress your boss. There's nothing wrong with what you have going so far especially seeing as how you were only a freshman last year. But BTbanker is right in that you can't just keep going back there each summer and expect that to lead to something else. Leverage what you did into relevant IB experience if that is what you are going for.
How necessary is the ib internship after sophomore year for non targets?
I know it is more difficult but how much more? Did consulting after my freshman year.
its a good way to get exposure to wall st when your a freshmen/sophomore. helps you explore your interests in finance
PWM to IB/PE (Originally Posted: 12/15/2006)
Has anyone made the move from PWM to traditional IB or PE after 2 years? After MBA?
My concern is that I may not get the modeling experience necessary to get to PE or IB, but I like the fact that you can have significant client interaction in your first year or two-which can be very attractive experience in the eyes of IB and/or PE.
Any thoughts?
As an analyst (especially first year) you're expected to do comps, models, format your pitchbook 100 times and end up with the original design. Other stuff all include heaps of ppt, word, excel etc.
Being able to interact with clients is not important. It barely impacts the work you do as an analyst... at least it didn't impact mine.
Well being able to interact with clients becomes important at the associate level and above. I assume that banks look to hire associates that they believe can help to bring in business-that was the reason I said client interaction is important.
Anyone know how difficult it would be to lateral after 2 years? Anyone seen it done?
How difficult would it be to move into an associate or private equity position after MBA from a top school (H/W/S) and BB(GS) PWM experience?
Do you have an offer for GS PWM? I am decideing if I want to try for PWM or IB, I think they both have benefits and drawbacks. The one thing that I am questioning about PWM is that it is very focused, I think that the people who like it can do really well, but it is not like IB where you can move into industry or PE or somthing.
As for moving to IB I think that if you make the right contacts in the back after your PWM analyst stint some banks are open to switching divisions, I am not sure if you would have to start at the bottom as a 1st year or what.
The other option is to try for a MBA after PWM. If you get into a top program it matters very little what you did before and PWM would actually probably be better than the people who did marketing or IT or somthing unrelated to finance. If you were trying for Private Equity after the MBA not IB it is harder and I think they like to see IB or consulting experience.
It definatly can be done, I have herad of people doing it but don't know anyone personally.
Yea, I have an offer from GS PWM.....i feel like the industry is more insulated from the volatility of the economy..more so than IB and much more so than S and T. However, PE is also not as affected by market downturns as traditional IB. However, i know that I need to get some modeling experience before I can get into PE..thats why I would consider doing a third year in IB.
Yea, Ive heard that it can be done as well. You are right on the mark about client exposure----doesnt matter as an analyst, but definitely matters at vp and md level(associate level to a lesser extent).
I would imagine that they would probably bring you on as a 2nd year(you would lose a year). Although I havent started yet, so take my advice for what its worth.
Any vets wanna add to this?
To be brutally honest, it's rare for someone to go from PWM to IB. If you're doing PWM at GS, it's going to be next to impossible to get into their IBD. I know at GS in particular, alot of their PWM interview candidates were non-target kids passed over for ibd interviews. It's possible to make even more money at PWM than in IBD, yet the IBD guys still look down upon PWM.
It might be possible to do 2 years at GS PWM and move to another bank's IBD but it all depends on your contacts. Also, I think it goes without saying that you have to be a standout at what you do. It probably wouldn't hurt to go out of your way to learn modeling and valuation on your own time. Also highly doubt they would bring you on as a 2nd year. You would start as a first year.
Game, you are referring to pre-mba, right. I would assume that after MBA at a top school like I was referring to, it wouldnt be a problem to go into GS IB.
Yes, sorry if I was unclear. I wouldn't say it "wouldn't be a problem to go into GS IB" because you're still competing against the top MBA students in the country, but your shot at a respectable IBD increases significantly with a top MBA.
PWM pivot to IB - possible or impossible? (Originally Posted: 04/15/2015)
Hi everyone, need some guidance/opinions.
I'm currently an assistant PM and I manage individual client monies (roughly 260 MM) in their individual accounts, so not on the mutual fund/hedge fund PM side of things. I'm doing broad asset class plays, choosing certain managers, and rebalancing portfolios etc. Not doing any in-depth equity analysis or company analysis looking at income statements, cash flows, balance sheets, all that fun stuff that IB or analysts do.
My question is, is a jump from wealth management to IB feasible/realistic? My personal opinion is that my skill sets I've learned in my job here, have nothing to do with IB. With that said, I am keen on the markets and I think I'll be able to 'tell my story' and explain why I want to get into IB. I also have a few friends who are willing to help introduce and get my resume in front of the right person and hopefully get my foot in the door for an interview with some good firms and for IB analyst positions- obviously exponentially increasing my chances than posting on an online portal.
I've jumped on here to start browsing everything I can but I wanted to throw out a feeler and get some input from people who may have been in the recruiting person's shoes/HR manager's shoes etc.
Any help is appreciated, thanks.
-
Possible? Yes, but will be extremely challenging. Are you in PWM within a bank with investment banking teams?
Private Wealth Management -> IBanking (Originally Posted: 04/28/2009)
Hello,
I am a Freshman at Dartmouth who was offered an internship at Deutsch Bank's private wealth management division. How much will this internship help me when I apply for an IBanking position next year?
bumpidy bump bump
i'm still a student but from i've read of course take it especially during these times that's reasonably one of the best internships u can get freshmen summer unless you have some good connections
Not a bad internship for a freshman. Take it if you don't have anything else.
Nature of the PWM business, the higher-level guys will have broad connections at least within the firm and most probably in the industry. So, if you can make a good impression, they could help you get your foot in the door in IBD (though some would look down at DB IBD, any IB experience is good at this point).
Would a fall BB PWM internship look as good/help equally as much as a summer internship?
ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE HELP!!! PWM->IB (Originally Posted: 04/28/2014)
Monkeys,
I recently completed a PWM internship at a BB and moved to a PWM group at another BB primarily for a source of extra money while going to school and to give me something to do otherwise I'd have a huge gap in my schedule during the time range that I would go to work.
3 weeks into my new position at the new bank I have recieved an offer from an elite boutique in IB -- IB has always been my dream, but would it be wrong to leave my current position after only 3 weeks? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
This will most likely burn a bridge at the BB, but if it is your dream to be in IB then it might be worth it for you.
Only 3 weeks in? Jump ship. You can leave the current PWM role off your resume completely in future.
Also, all caps headers with multiple exclamation marks - sure sign of insanity.
FYI I do a lot to help the team, and it took a few weeks for the current intern to make the transition to me in regards to teaching me what the FA needs his interns to do on a daily basis.
And I'm pretty sure I'm going to leave, but how do I go about explaining it to the people here?
I would say just tell them the truth. I agree with AcctNerd that it will burn the bridge with the BB you are currently with. At the same time, people do understand that things come up. I wouldnt walk in tomorrow morning and say 'I Quit!' however. See what you can work out with the new IB offer with regards to when they are starting you. If they say they dont need you for 3 weeks, let your current BB know that you will be happy to stay on for those 3 weeks so they arent left with a hole in the office and can work on finding someone to fill your spot.
"I've always wanted to work in IB. I appreciate this leaves you in a difficult position, but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for me. Goodbye."
In general, people get it and aren't huge jerks. I walked into my first day of a new job at 7 AM and quit because I got and signed a better offer the Friday before. You know what the boss said? "For that money, I don't blame you."
Just be polite, and you'll be fine.
Thanks for the advice guys I really appreciate it!
pwm to IB (networking) (Originally Posted: 03/09/2013)
I am in the process of cold calling/emailing boutique banks around my town for a summer internship. I have only contacted a few places and I'm not sure how successful my attempts will be. Should this fail, my back up plan would be to get a PWM internship at ML or Morgan Stanley Smith Barney. I've already done a PWM internship last year, and I know it isn't much real work, but it still is better than nothing. Morgan Stanley recruits at my school in the fall for IB interns - if I do their PWM this summer, will my boss (or any upper level manager/adviser) be able to give me a referral? Is this kind of networking normal/common?
worked at MS pwm last summer...they passed my resume along with some great words to upper level people who do the intern stuff at the main office of recruiting for s and t, etc. It can definitely help you get an interview but it really comes down to your resume and if you are what they are looking for. Having a BB in any divsiion helps a lot though on the resume
great, thanks. did you directly ask for referrals (or how did you get them to pass your resume on)? and how exactly does this work if i apply for next year's MS IB internship in the fall - I mean, might sound like a silly question, but there are so many interviewers and recruiters, how can you know your resume was passed on to the right person in the main office?
Moving from PWM into an IBD Analyst Position (Originally Posted: 04/07/2008)
Longtime lurker, first time member and poster...
Have any of you guys seen this done, where a guy you starts just out of college in PWM moves after a year of being with the firm into an IBD analyst program as a 1st year analyst (ex. Joins the bank FT in Summer '07 and joins the Summer '09 FT Analyst class)? Is this even possible? The reason this comes up is that a buddy of mine who graduated last spring and I were talking yesterday when he came up to visit his alma matter for the weekend. I graduate in the fall and was asking him for career advice as I'm just starting my job hunt for a january job. I told him I was intrested in finance, law and a few other fields, however i wasn't sure what i want to do with reality. The guy told me he does PWM and that he hates it. While the hours are good, he just finds the work he does extremely droll and menial, he called himself a glorified assistant. He was telling me that he'd rather be an excel monkey than work in PWM because at least he can aquire a skill-set transferable across a number of areas in finance.
Even though I don't know much about PWM in general, although wikipedia has made it seem reasonable for a sociable guy to get into, it seems like a dead end job in finance if you're not good at it and you get pidgeonhold easily in it. Even though I am looking at other fields, my buddy did throw me an offer because the firm he works for is always looking for hard working people and he'd pass my resume along to his boss, but like him I don't want the possibility of being stuck without much room for growth, either personally or professionally, for the 2-3 years out of school before I go back and get my post-grad degree (not sure if I want a JD or an MBA yet...). Any advice about moving is greatly apprecited.
Also any thought on PWM as a field in general? I used the search function and saw some interesting beliefs, but any more info is appreciated. IF things go my way, hopefully I'll be doing law, but I don't know, so here's to hoping for something good.
Thanks for the Info
~J. "Scooter Pie" D.
if you can still get in...or MBA the market is shit
I've actually met a few people that worked in PWM and lateraled to ER, but don't know any that made the jump to IBD.
I think PWM is good depending on your personality type. It's basically sales, so if you like that, then it might be for you.
PWM->IBD? (Originally Posted: 03/15/2008)
For all the posts I've read disparaging PWM (summer internships and more), I'm wondering whether I should just continue with economics/math research over the summer, or whether having that BB PWM internship on my resume will actually give me a leg-up for IBD/PE/HF summer roles next year. Thoughts or comments for the inexperienced?
Thanks!
I guess if you say you will be looking for summer opportunities next year, that means you are a current freshman or sophomore. If that is in fact the case, taking a PWM internship is completely fine. There are lots of people who do PWM and then jump to ibanking/pe/hf the following summer. Infact it isnt that unheard of for people to jump from a PWM internship to a FT offer.
It's slightly more complicated. If you're currently a freshman, PWM is great! It adds something nice to your resume and gives you a bit of credibility. If you're a sophomore however, a PWM stint even at a top BB is average at best. Come SA or FT recruiting, the banks will look towards those with specific high finance experience (i.e. HF/boutiques/VC/PE) well over those from PWM/marketing/sales etc... backgrounds.
My recommendation would be to pick up a PWM as a freshman (since they're relatively easy to get), and use it as leverage at a small boutique/hf/vc/pe your sophomore year. Getting that prior "banking experience" is what really gives you a leg-up to your peers.
That said, I did go from a PWM background to landing a top SA position, but it most definitely wasn't without struggle. Everyone with the prior high finance experience landed many more 1st rounds and overall had more success in terms of offers. Being able to talk comfortable about a deal you've worked on or a model you helped build sets you miles apart from others. Of course, this is assuming you know your technical and are likable.
If you want to be in IB and PWM is the only internship option you have, I'd definetly take it. The work isn't really applicable to banking but there is the opportunity to make good connections and references that will help you in your future job search.
I did a PWM internship at a BB and my boss happened to manage money for a few of the BB's i-bankers and prop traders. I made a good impression over the summer, she made some introductions and presto: I'm working FT with ex-BB bankers at a large HF/PE firm. All because of a "shitty" PWM internship.
Don't pass up on potentially good opportunities because you never know where they'll lead. Take the internship, work as hard as possible and meet as many people as possible. It can only help you.
Pwm gives you the opportunity to network but more importantly gives you a solid foundation for how the markets work. I did pwm for two summers at a bb and this summer will be doing ER. If you take full advantage of your time at pwm than it is worth it
Pwm gives you the opportunity to network but more importantly gives you a solid foundation for how the markets work. I did pwm for two summers at a bb and this summer will be doing ER. If you take full advantage of your time at pwm then it is worth it
PWM to IB/PE? (Originally Posted: 02/12/2015)
--
The fact that you are so enamored with prestige instead of actually learning applicable skills is rather indicative, don't you think?
Prestige plays a huge role in which grad school you get into. Read my post slowly, and then comment back when you have something useful to add.
get the thought of PE out of your head for now, what you're talking about could work in theory, but in reality, post MBA PE requires experience in PE pre MBA.
if you get do top tier MBA (doubtful with your stats unless you crush the GMAT and saved all of those pilot whales in new zealand), IB for a few years and then PE could work
your position is likely bullshit. I've competed with (or work at) whatever firm you're talking about and you will be client facing in the sense that you get to try to explain standard deviation and correlation to a wealthy couple/family, but you're not doing God's work, don't mistake that.
the good news is if you're talking about goldman, CS, DB alex brown, us trust, northern trust, or jp private bank, that's a terrific name brand that should serve you well in MBA applications.
the more likely thing is you're working at a wirehouse like Morgan Stanley, Merrill, UBS, wells, etc. and are going to be doing bitch work. not terrible from an exit opp standpoint if you want MBA, but if you don't get into a top MBA you're going to be pissed that you went into this to begin with.
PWM is not about prestige, so get that thought out of your head. what does the role entail? that will enable us to give better advice
Gotcha
Exactly. As it stands right now getting into a top tier is going to be brutal unless I crush the GMAT. Outside of work I'm currently volunteering on political campaigns/and non-profits while also running for a campaign myself. I'm hoping getting involved with my community will help my chances, certainly can't hurt right?
True, but it tells a better story than where I'm at right now hopefully when it comes to getting an internship (I'm hoping).
Would be best case scenario, but I don't have the networks/credentials for those places.
Yep.
The role is essentially a portfolio associate for private clients. So there's going to be a lot of client service and sells along with portfolio analysis for private clients for this research firm.
For me it's a great opportunity from where I currently am at. I think my main concern right now is to get into a target MBA program. I don't think a boutique would take me as is right now unfortunately.
My main concern is that this experience will be a negative rather than a positive for getting into a target MBA program AND getting a decent-to-good internship. In retrospect my current experience (While not bad) has nothing to do with the world of investing so I suppose anything would be better as long as I can weave it into my story.
I guess my question should really be this:
What should I put all my effort into currently career-wise in order to get into a target MBA program?
I know I'm not getting in i banking right now unless I get extremely lucky and find a network through my political contacts, so I'm going to assume that won't happen and will plan on getting into i banking during and after grad school instead.
Trying to come up with a strategy for i banking is headache inducing..
You could definitely get into a good grad school if you do well on the GMAT, have a good story, all that. I'm sure your government work could be spun into something interesting, as could the role you're talking about switching to.
I'm not trying to bash the role, it sounds like how I got my start. I simply wanted you to get off of your high horse (you write as if you have an overinflated ego about the position) and realize that you will be someone's assistant and the work will be dull.
If the pay is better, I'd take the job. Once you're in, try to crush the GMAT immediately. You'll be at an 8-5 schedule so plenty of time for volunteer work and studying, take advantage of that. Keep an eye on the projects you're doing and see if they correspond to any current events (like Dodd frank, sec rulings, etc) because that will help your story.
Best of luck, but try to keep an open mind. You can certainly get into a decent mba, but banking at a non MBA business schools">m7 will be tough. Why banking? For the money? Tons of ways to make a buck, not just banking, so spend some time thinking about where your interests and strengths lie, and that should help your decision making.
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