Repayment of sign on bonus?
I have a dilemma I'm hoping to get some advice about
I started my job July 2nd of last year. There's a clause in my offer that states if I voluntarily quit my job within a year of my start date I need to return the full amount of the signing bonus. I have accepted a job offer elsewhere now and am trying to figure out how to quit without being on the hook for signing bonus.
I want to give 2 week notice because I know that's the standard. But if I give it on say today that I'm quitting on july 2nd, I am afraid my manager would say that my submission of quitting was today and therefore I voluntarily terminated my position today and I need to repay the bonus.
Is that a legit concern? Should I give 2 week notice or wait till July 2nd and give 3 day notice, basically working till the end of that week?
This is in investment management, not IB, but Im hoping to hear some opinion since I need to act soon.
Should have thought this through and asked for 3 weeks notice :p Whatever it happens, just wait it out and give 3 days notice.
How much is the sign on bonus? Just out of curiosity.
Street level is ~$10k.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
yes a little more than 10k, 12-15k
It depends on how technical you want to get. You are technically working for the 1 year, does your boss think you are an ass? That's the real question.
I don't quite follow what you mean. If I give 2 week notice now, I will technically be working for the full year since 2 weeks from now is July 2nd 2013. But If my manager tells me I have to leave on the spot (not allowing me to have the 2 week transition) does that constitute a firing or a resignation?
I think that's my main concern. If that is still a resignation then I will need to wait till July 3rd for sure.
Absolutely do not give notice until you are past the date of your full year. I've seen friends who've had to fight to hold on to their money in similar situations, and trust me, it is not worth the trouble.
Have you considered telling your future employer about the situation and asking them if it would be alright for you to start slightly later?
I can work remotely for 2 more weeks after July 5th but I can't show up to office except for maybe a few days in that period.
I don't feel good about not giving the 2 weeks, but I think i must protect myself.
anyone have ever quit while giving short notice? I can imagine that conversation will be very awkward
Wait it out to be safe.
give three days notice, you gotta look out for #1
It's interesting that your repayment clause is all or nothing. Mine says that the longer I work the less I have to repay until it goes down to zero after a full year. I.E. if I left after 11 months I would only have to repay 1-2k or so.
You have to repay full amount when you only receive 40-50% of it (taxes)?
Just play it safe. If there's any reason for them to take the money from you, they will. After July 2nd, just say that you are resigning instead of giving them a specifc time period. Let them ask you about two weeks notice if they want that from you, and cross your fingers that they'll just let you go the day of so you can start your new job.
You should wait. If you're not Operations, and you have access to anything investment related, you will most likely be walked and won't even get to give two weeks. If you don't have an "important" investment related role, and there is no risk to you still being there, they might give you the two weeks. Regardless, it's not worth the risk that they walk you and you piss away 10k+ because you want to be a "good guy" and do right by them. Wait until July 2 and tell them on that day.
Wait - they wouldn't think twice about giving you a doughnut for your year-end bonus if their earnings were going to be a penny below guidance.
seriously do not give notice until the full year is up. and as mentioned previously, it is highly likely you will be walked as soon as you give notice anyway
I have never seen them claw it back but some banks might do it given their circumstances. If you are worried just don't give them notice. In a perfect world, you would be able to give them 2 weeks notice and have confidence that they wouldn't take anything back but companies have their own interests in mind and they don't view loyalty as a two way street. They would happily lay off an entire class of analysts the day before their bonuses were paid out if it meant getting themselves out of a financial bind or was advantageous to them in any way. Do what's best for you. This is a fairly common scenario, especially in banking where people often get immediate start offers near their bonus date. Make sure that the check hits the account or in your case that you hit your 1 year mark indisputably, and then give them the news. They'll live.
This. Nothing is final unless the check hits your account.
Ok here is the deal, most banks are not going to chase after you for 10k. Also I would really reread the clauses. My repayment clause states as each quarter passes, the repayment penatly is less. So say you worked for three quarters and leave, then you only have to repay 1/4 of the bonus. I have never heard all or nothing and honestly you'd be surprised how much these guys forgot about the bonus, so if you leave, they may not even notice or care for that matter.
They will garnish your accrued check and vacation that they should be paying you out, and if that doesn't cover the amount you owe, they will ask you to pay it back. They aren't going to demand their money on the spot, but will expect a check from you. If you don't have the cash, they might let you pay over time. Don't think for a minute that they will just let it slide or something. Not gonna happen.
Haha I wish banks were so kind. When I left my S&T job earlier this year, on my exit interview, I was given a document that stated something along the lines of: "Under state law, as stated in your offer letter, you owe us ~$6k because you left before July 2013." Also, you are asked to pay back the post-tax amount; it would be egregious if they asked for the full 10k. Most places are all-or-nothing but your mileage may vary depending on your firm.
Read your contracts carefully ladies and gentlemen and let this be a lesson. Employment contracts are NOT boiler plate and can and should be negotiated line by line. In this particular case if the language seems unclear you can ask the new employer if they will cover it, often times they will (just as occasionally the will offer a signing bonus with the caveat that it is reduced by any outgoing performance ((usually commission or trading profit)) bonus you get from the shop your leaving). If you give 2 weeks notice and exhibit a willingness to fulfill the full terms of your contract you SHOULD get paid out and would probably win in court, though 13k is not worth the time, money or reputation lost in litigation.
By definition as signing bonus is paid when you sign on.
They still have his final paycheck.
Also, I quit on short notice. Actually I drove to work with my bags packed in a rental car and quit on the way to the airport while moving to the biggest competitor in Europe. And yes, it's awkward. But if your move makes sense your coworkers will understand, even if the company tries to screw you. I got asked to write a check for half a day's vacation pay they decided I hadn't accrued yet...
lol i jst had bonus in my account, then quit and had to give it back (post-tax of curse )
Didn't they just net it out of your owed pay?
Why would you pay them? What are they gonna do if you don't? Try and black list you? Sue you for a couple of grand? Its a joke just blow them off and don't pay them anything.
u act liek payrull actullay functions correctly - same stuff happens w/ us 2
Send ...
What language is this? Hentai? Pokemon?
LOL, yea right. It will cost them more than its worth.
Was being facetious.
I know, but would be kinda awesome if that was the case.
-not hent** - not sure if that's an actul lang -not pokemon - i'd jst be saying mudkipz all day
-shortened english online spk umirin? But in reality my keyboard is broken :p
They figured out a few months after I left that they wanted the money back. I didn't pay. They haven't sent a debt collector.
But it was for half a day's pay...
Would be like Repo Men!
Tell them you spent it on Jelly Beans, if they ask for the money back ask them where they would like 10,000lbs of jelly beans to be sent to.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/aug/29/apple-samsung-tru…
usually the day that you put your 2 weeks in they escort you out that day.
3 day notice, don't even question it.
Just wait it's almost July anyway.
Do you recall that banks are... you know... in the business of collections? If it costs a bank >$10k to put your signing bonus into collections, they should be bankrupt by now. But, by all means, if the OP wants to risk having his credit screwed by his bank by not paying his bonus back, go for it!
Don't most debt collection agencies work on a contingency fee? From my understanding, if they are able to get you to pay, the agency keeps X % of the money and the bank gets (100-X) %. Usually the collectors keep up to 30-50%, so I don't get how it would be more expensive for a bank to assign it to collections (unless the admin costs/hassle outweighs the potential reward, but given how everything is completely automated nowadays, I doubt that's the case).
This is true, but even this is being apologetic to the absurdity of the claim that "it's not worth the money to pursue getting the bonus back." These are banks we're talking about. How do you think a bank would fare if its general approach to $10k debts was "it's too expensive to pursue"? How exactly do you think credit card debts work?
All of that even ignores the fact that bonus clawback is a commonplace occurrence at IBs. It's not like this is some strange scenario that will "confuse" the payroll department.
Quit and left the same day from a BB, did not work an entire year. They asked for my sign on bonus back. I haven't paid it
It has to do with how it would fare in court. If he went into the court and said my contract said I had to work for 1 year I put in my 2 weeks notice that extended my working time past the 1 year mark. A court would on almost all cases side with the employee even if the bank walked him the day he turned in his 2 weeks notice. He is showing intent to fulfill the contract. If the bank wants to break the contract and walk him early that their choice but in such case they are the ones breaking the contract. So the cost of going to court over it is not worth the time or effort of their legal teams.
This has nothing to do with whether or not you actually end up paying back the bonus or not. I can do the same thing with credit card bills. If I just stop paying them, no one is going to sue me. The damage is felt on your credit.
Didn't they just net it out of your owed pay?
u act liek payrull actullay functions correctly - same stuff happens w/ us 2
What language is this? Hentai? Pokemon?
-not hent** - not sure if that's an actul lang
-not pokemon - i'd jst be saying mudkipz all day
-shortened english online spk umirin?
But in reality my keyboard is broken :p
[/quote]
Sorry, but callin' B.S. on the broken keyboard. Typing in that manner seems to me to have two outcomes: 1. you end up taking more time writing that way than you would have typing full words / sentences, or 2. it is actually more efficient for you to write like that, leading to futher dedregation of the English language and likely slipping into your everyday writen and oral verbiage.
TL;DR - Dress for the position you want, speak like those who hold that position.
Look at your copy of the contract. It should explain that issue...problem solved. Either way, I wouldn't say anything until the time was past. People are snakes and deal with rejection poorly.
give no notice and on the last day you do this:
I went through a similar situation, except with a moving stipend. They ended up waiving that because I was "close enough" to the anniversary date (2 year period on this one, though). I honestly think they didn't want to do the paperwork to get back $5k from an outgoing analyst.
So July 2nd, what happened?
How close do you think one has to be to the 1-year anniversary to be considered "close enough"?
I'm 4 months away and desperate to get out of this hell-hole. Problem is it's an associate bonus and I don't exactly have a spare $50k laying around. My contract does say "repay full bonus award" so I'm reluctant to pull the trigger...hoping against hope they might prorate it.
Any anecdotes on this front?
Took on dream job, repayment of bonus (Originally Posted: 02/11/2014)
I posted on here a few days ago regarding an opportunity I was fortunate enough to get.
The opportunity is a job I had hope to land post-banking; sad thing is I got it a few years early.
I wanted to ask two things:
Notice period: is the notice period still applicable if you are no longer in financial services? I ask because our firm (and other BBs) have a so-called "gardening leave" where you're paid to not work.
Sign-on: the sign-on is due within 30 days of quitting within a year. Is it not possible to repay that gross amount in installments? Not sure what the repercussions are otherwise.
This was entirely by luck that I landed this opportunity, and am very excited by it. Just want to make sure I don't have any major issues to deal with post-signing.
Alot of times, people don't chase you for the sign-on. Garden leave is only if you go to a competitor. They may make you serve out your notice period they may not
3 weeks notice is courtesy
HR may send you a few emails, but I never repaid my signing bonus, and I've heard nothing about it in two years.
Congrats on the job.
Thanks guys. Again, I'm shocked I was even considered for this opportunity.
I spoke with an employment lawyer, and there are two takeaways:
Notice provision: only really applies if you move to a competitor (FINRA guided). If not, then forcing you to work at a company where you've made it clear you're leaving won't hold water in court.
Clawback: Clawback payback is preferred obviously, but it's like collections. The chances of the firm collecting the gross amount immediately is rare, so instead of having to go to court and hiring lawyers and incurring more fees, they'd rather just a settlement out of court. They'll be happier accepting some cash than spending a ton and netting out zero.
Anyways, accepting the offer. Thanks everyone!
Bonus Repayment for BB (Originally Posted: 09/23/2010)
I've searched the forums, but no question exists quite like this.
Has anyone has any experience actually having to pay a sign-on bonus back, because they left after the first year. If I leave then I would have to pay a nice pre-tax sum within 60 days. I don't have that kind of money. Do the BB's actually enforce this rule. I wonder what they can actually do to retrieve this money. Would a huge bank like this actually bring you to court for a few thousand dollars? If anyone has any direct experience with this, please advise.
It is in the contract. If I was a BB, I would bring you to court just to fuck you. It's one thing to leave early, it's another thing to leave early and not pay back the bonus....I would bury in legal bills and still take my 10K.
Bump.
I just signed one of those, too. It had a clause saying that, if employment is terminated for any reason other than job elimination, the bonus would be subject to repayment within 60 days.
How often are 1st year analysts fired?
I really just don't see them wasting their time with trying to come after you. I think it would take longer than 60 days for them to get everything together to begin the process of retrieving the money. On top of that, couldn't you work out some type of payment plan or something.
not a BB, but at a top boutique, two analysts in my class quit: one had to pay it back and one was able to wiggle his way out of it. so....50% chance depending on your relationships with the MDs you work for
i think you pay back the signing bonus for the portion of the time you are not there for the remaining of your first year(.i.e., you have 4 month left, so you pay back 10000/3). Usually the banks will try to get the money from you.
IB signing bonus return (Originally Posted: 11/04/2014)
Contemplating leaving mid first year of two year analyst stint. Do bbs require you to pay back the signing bonus ?
Should say on your offer letter. My guess is yes, in full if before 6 months and half if before 1 year.
Check your offer letter but most firms take back some or all if you leave within first year. Usually it's the "gross amount"
Just checked the offer letter and no such language pertinent to the signing bonus or "relocation package"
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