8/18/11

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/08/evolution_gop...

A vote for Perry, Bachmann, or Santorum is a vote against science and reason. Bachmann's quotes on the subject are pretty fucking remarkable for their stupidity.

For the GOP's sake, and the sake of America, I hope they nominate Paul, Huntsman, or even Romney. Given the media's obsession with Perry, I'm not sure that's going to happen.

Comments (181)

Best Response
8/19/11

I don't necessarily care about a person's religion or their belief in God - that's a private issue and it's usually of no concern to me. I do have an issue when those beliefs bleed into the public sphere. More than anything, I think this is an issue of character. I don't trust Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann and Rick Santorum to not govern based on religion. They're uncompromising and willfully ignorant people. They can believe what they want, but their black and white mentality has no place in governing this country.

This isn't a knock against religion. There are many religious people who can reconcile their faith and evidence supporting evolution. There are also many religious people who don't believe in evolution but would never support teaching intelligent design in classes. I could vote for Huntsman or Romney knowing that they're religious and conservative, but open to different perspectives and willing to compromise when governing.

I guess it's kind of a proxy indicator for me. But honestly, who doesn't believe in evolution these days? It's not even belief as much as acceptance. The fact that this is still up for debate is crazy to me.

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8/18/11

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think a candidate's views on evolution don't matter much. Honestly, so what? I'd rather focus on what the policy plans are. But in today's media climate (all screaming and no discussing), policy doesn't seem to matter much either.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

In reply to In The Flesh
8/18/11
In The Flesh:

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think a candidate's views on evolution don't matter much. Honestly, so what? I'd rather focus on what the policy plans are. But in today's media climate (all screaming and no discussing), policy doesn't seem to matter much either.

+1

I dont understand what the problem is if they do not believe in Evolution. How is that going to effect any kind of policy? There are a lot of reasons to not vote for them. Not believing in evolution should not be one.

8/18/11

Actually, to me, this is the single most important part of their platform, and the main reason why I would not even look at the rest of their platform. Any candidate that doesn't believe in evolution, or that supports intelligent designed, is automatically dinged in my book.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
In reply to WestCoastDeveloper
8/18/11
Nobama88:
In The Flesh:

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think a candidate's views on evolution don't matter much. Honestly, so what? I'd rather focus on what the policy plans are. But in today's media climate (all screaming and no discussing), policy doesn't seem to matter much either.

+1

I dont understand what the problem is if they do not believe in Evolution. How is that going to effect any kind of policy? There are a lot of reasons to not vote for them. Not believing in evolution should not be one.

These are the same people that would want to push faith based education in schools. These sort of positions matter enormously.

8/18/11

This sort of shit absolutely effects policy. i.e.) stem cell research, education policy, etc.

Beyond that, give me a fucking break. It reflects their inability to process facts and information that goes against something they previously believed in (regardless of it being true or not.) The whole, "I won't let facts get in the way of my beliefs" mentality is a problem.

Beyond that, it's just retarded. Gravity is a "theory" with some holes in it (blackhole singularities), does that mean these people are going to walk out of a window on the 20th floor of a building?

In reply to LIBOR
8/18/11

Actually, to me, this is the single most important part of their platform, and the main reason why I would not even look at the rest of their platform. Any candidate that doesn't believe in evolution, or that supports intelligent designed, is automatically dinged in my book.

At the risk of being pedantic, Romney's position is what Intelligent Design implies, using an outside force to explain the observed and proven fact of evolution. This would be equivalent to claiming an outside force causes gravity as opposed to gravitons as implied by current models of the universe. Huntsman, probably Newt and possibly Paul, depending on what they meant with their statements seem to understand what the Theory of Evolution actually implies, but the rest seem to be just denying facts.

In reply to awm55
8/18/11
awm55:
Nobama88:
In The Flesh:

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think a candidate's views on evolution don't matter much. Honestly, so what? I'd rather focus on what the policy plans are. But in today's media climate (all screaming and no discussing), policy doesn't seem to matter much either.

+1

I dont understand what the problem is if they do not believe in Evolution. How is that going to effect any kind of policy? There are a lot of reasons to not vote for them. Not believing in evolution should not be one.

These are the same people that would want to push faith based education in schools. These sort of positions matter enormously.

Not necessarily. I think you'll find that the most common position is that both viewpoints should be taught so that thje kids can make up their own minds. That would be ideal, because both ideas would get heard, there wouldn't be any shrieking about brainwashing, and it would be removed as an electoral issue so we can get back to arguing with each other about more important things, like taxes. :)

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

8/18/11

This matters immensely, denying evolution shows they refute science and progress. If a candidate isn't smart enough to correctly analyze the data on something as simple and with as much of a scientific consensus as evolution, how are we supposed to trust them with any of the more complicated issues that presidents deal with daily?

8/18/11

It begins....

OP why do you think there is no creator?

What started the big bang?

In reply to Michael Scarn
8/18/11
Michael Scarn:

This matters immensely, denying evolution shows they refute science and progress. If a candidate isn't smart enough to correctly analyze the data on something as simple and with as much of a scientific consensus as evolution, how are we supposed to trust them with any of the more complicated issues that presidents deal with daily?

If god(s) do not exist then you must do so say or reveal logic to prove your beliefs. Until then I will continue to believe that there must be something that created everything, because there is no logical conclusion to draw from science to bring forth a counter proof to move my motivation of contemplation to a ratification.

In reply to TheKing
8/18/11
TheKing:

This sort of shit absolutely effects policy. i.e.) stem cell research, education policy, etc.

Last I checked, the President of the United States is not a dictator.

In reply to blastoise
8/18/11
blastoise:
Michael Scarn:

This matters immensely, denying evolution shows they refute science and progress. If a candidate isn't smart enough to correctly analyze the data on something as simple and with as much of a scientific consensus as evolution, how are we supposed to trust them with any of the more complicated issues that presidents deal with daily?

If god(s) do not exist then you must do so say or reveal logic to prove your beliefs. Until then I will continue to believe that there must be something that created everything, because there is no logical conclusion to draw from science to bring forth a counter proof to move my motivation of contemplation to a ratification.

So let me get this straight. I have to PROVE to you with PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that there is a god. Seems to me someone who desires PROOF and PHYSICAL EVIDENCE wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the 'almighty creator'

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to happypantsmcgee
8/18/11
happypantsmcgee:
blastoise:
Michael Scarn:

This matters immensely, denying evolution shows they refute science and progress. If a candidate isn't smart enough to correctly analyze the data on something as simple and with as much of a scientific consensus as evolution, how are we supposed to trust them with any of the more complicated issues that presidents deal with daily?

If god(s) do not exist then you must do so say or reveal logic to prove your beliefs. Until then I will continue to believe that there must be something that created everything, because there is no logical conclusion to draw from science to bring forth a counter proof to move my motivation of contemplation to a ratification.

So let me get this straight. I have to PROVE to you with PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that there is a god. Seems to me someone who desires PROOF and PHYSICAL EVIDENCE wouldn't necessarily be on the side of the 'almighty creator'

No, one must hence fourth reveal logic that disproves god(s) with on all reasonable doubt. Until then there is a God. For one does not need to prove a creator exists since he/she is around us for it your position that holds the stance of abolitionism of dissolution in this stance on all indefatigable entities from which we hence forth came.

8/18/11

Can God throw a football so far he can't catch it?

Yes.

God is omnipotent.

8/18/11

Some love to scream about how stupid and illogical people 'clinging to their bibles' are, but the only logical conclusion to ANY science out there is that something had to create everything.

Sooo...If a candidate isn't smart enough to correctly analyze the data on something as simple and with as much of a scientific consensus as something has to come from somewhere, how are we supposed to trust them with any of the more complicated issues that presidents deal with daily?

8/18/11

A creator is not the default answer. It's your default answer. Check yo selves.

8/18/11
In reply to In The Flesh
8/18/11
In The Flesh:

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think a candidate's views on evolution don't matter much. Honestly, so what? I'd rather focus on what the policy plans are. But in today's media climate (all screaming and no discussing), policy doesn't seem to matter much either.

Policy plans don't mean shit when it's some bread and circus shit meant to appease voters.

8/18/11

Wow, another religious hating post by TheKing.

1) Who gives a shit if they believe or not.

2) Who fucking cares if the government funds stem cell research. As long as they do not make it illegal private parties can fund it.

3) For everyone that shits on religion, I am waiting to see evolution and atheism comfort someone who is dying or help a grieving family. If a "fairy tale" helps a wife who lost her husband or comforts someone who is going through a horrible time in their life, then it is without a doubt better than the "truth".

I love how liberals cry about the rights of all these poor, oppressed groups, but they cannot stop themselves from shitting on and wanting to oppress people who hold views unlike themselves.

8/18/11

^^^ RE: #2. Uh, and you don't think someone like Bachmann would move to make research illegal? I don't think it's that far of a stretch man.

8/18/11

God created the big bang, you're welcome. Next topic.

Get busy living

8/18/11

Bush didn't make it illegal and I think it is doubtful that it even could be made illegal. Either way Congress has the real power and this country is pretty evenly split when it comes to political parties.

8/18/11

Agreed. I'm just afraid of any sort of extremism from either party. Bush was a fucking moderate (at least as far as social issues) compared to the first two in the thread title.

8/18/11

Neither are electable.

They are just pandering to a small part of their party. Just like Obama was pretty far left when he started, all move to the center as time goes on.

I personally don't want the government funding any of this shit. Who says Stem Cells are the best thing to research? Ya know. I mean maybe something else is key, but people are ignoring it because government money is too lucrative.

Market distortions.

8/18/11

For fucks sake who cares if they believe in the boogey man or not. Quit being an asshat and trying to start political debates about things no one gives a fuck about.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

3) For everyone that shits on religion, I am waiting to see evolution and atheism comfort someone who is dying or help a grieving family. If a "fairy tale" helps a wife who lost her husband or comforts someone who is going through a horrible time in their life, then it is without a doubt better than the "truth".

Holy shit, people need to get comfortable with existential ambiguity. It's awfully weak-minded to hold religion above the pursuit of truth because it provides an intellectual prozac in times of emotional and mental vulnerability.

8/18/11

I personally don't want the government funding any of this shit. Who says Stem Cells are the best thing to research? Ya know. I mean maybe something else is key, but people are ignoring it because government money is too lucrative.

^ You can't be serious. Stem-cell research is the future.

IMO, if the government should spend money on anything, it should be R&D (research and development). Innovations got America where it is today and they can restore its greatness in the future as well. Just imagine, if he have another internet-like breakthrough, the demand created would solve the recession in a matter of months.

That's why promoting STEM majors is so important as well - they lead to innovation. And America, again, badly needs someone to innovate right now.

8/18/11

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to ThaVanBurenBoyz
8/18/11
ThaVanBurenBoyz:
ANT:

3) For everyone that shits on religion, I am waiting to see evolution and atheism comfort someone who is dying or help a grieving family. If a "fairy tale" helps a wife who lost her husband or comforts someone who is going through a horrible time in their life, then it is without a doubt better than the "truth".

Holy shit, people need to get comfortable with existential ambiguity. It's awfully weak-minded to hold religion above the pursuit of truth because it provides an intellectual prozac in times of emotional and mental vulnerability.

Weak minded huh? I believe it takes a strong mind to believe in something that cannot be proven, especially when there are insulting cunts out there who chortle because they think something is silly.

Why should the government fund stem cells and why are they better than other research areas? I didn't realize it was the government that should be making allocation decisions.
http://blog.bioethics.net/2007/08/whos-funding-ste...

The private sector is spending the most and they should be the ones deciding to spend it. My tax dollars should go to national defense and other ACTIUAL jobs of a federal government. Some people don't agree with using dead fetuses for research. Last time I checked we try and respect everyone's opinion and belief.

Oh and someone who believes in religion is unfit to be president? How wonderfully tolerant. Sorry that I disagree, I mean I support respecting everyone, including people who believe in God.

Oh that's right, humans know everything and we have never believed something to be scientifically true and then proven otherwise.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/18/11
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

8/18/11

I believe it takes a strong mind to believe in something that cannot be proven

I don't think strong is the appropriate word here...

Anyways, government does have a small role in boosting an economy. Increasing the minimum-wage today would spur consumption, for instance.

8/18/11

Or it will put more people out of work.

You don't think strong is the right word? Most of the people who believe in evolution know very little about it. They were taught the basics in science class and because it is science they roll with it.

If you think that the government setting wages is a good idea, you are nuts. People blow off minimum wage jobs all the time. Do you think they would even bother if wages dropped to 3 bucks an hour? Get real. Wages are set by people who are willing to do them.

The entire argument you hear from the left supporting illegal immigration is that they do jobs Americans wont. McDonalds would pay 7 bucks an hour with our without the government interfering.

8/18/11

ANT, I never said it was weak-minded to believe in the unproven. And I don't claim that there isn't a God, nor do I think anyone is less intelligent because they believe in a God.

You said that religion is better than the "truth" (or atheism and evolution), because it comforts those in times of death. I don't think I could come up with a better illustration of weak-mindedness. How could the pursuit of truth be less valuable than an emotional crutch? Just because one finds themselves in a vulnerable state? That's insulting as a human being.

8/18/11

How people can complain about the government forcing religion in schools, fighting wars in 3 countries and the patriot act, but at the same time want government to set prices, teach only evolution and fund stem cell research is beyond me.

More government means more good if you believe one thing or more bad if you believe another. How about we just live and let live and shrink this fucking beast so we wont have to complain about it interfering anymore.

8/18/11

Oh, and not all of us atheists (or agnostic atheists) are liberal. There are many secular conservatives in our generation, yours truly included.

8/18/11

I didn't mean the chortling cunt comment at you BTW.

Science is great. Finding the truth is great. I support and encourage it all. But to shit on religion or religious people, without seeing the good within it is awfully closed minded.

The theory of evolution will change and adapt as more information is uncovered. The majority of people who believe in it and look down on creationism couldn't explain evolution past "we came from monkeys". If you want to believe in evolution ,fine, but actually learn the details about it. Otherwise you are just believe what someone else tells you which is basically the same thing as believe in a creator.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

How people can complain about the government forcing religion in schools, fighting wars in 3 countries and the patriot act, but at the same time want government to set prices, teach only evolution and fund stem cell research is beyond me.

More government means more good if you believe one thing or more bad if you believe another. How about we just live and let live and shrink this fucking beast so we wont have to complain about it interfering anymore.

The government cannot force one religion in school, that is the problem. This is not Iran.

The beauty of science is that it is a universal language, and its not clouded by the scientists bias belief system. There is research and a background of evidence and fact to back-up scientific teachings, you want to incorporate intelligent design because it supports the religious beliefs that YOU were brought up to believe were the absolute truth. In addition, there is scientific evidence to support the usefulness of stem cell research.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

I didn't mean the chortling cunt comment at you BTW.

Science is great. Finding the truth is great. I support and encourage it all. But to shit on religion or religious people, without seeing the good within it is awfully closed minded.

The theory of evolution will change and adapt as more information is uncovered. The majority of people who believe in it and look down on creationism couldn't explain evolution past "we came from monkeys". If you want to believe in evolution ,fine, but actually learn the details about it. Otherwise you are just believe what someone else tells you which is basically the same thing as believe in a creator.

The only issue I have with religion is that you guys throw out or forget the hundreds of crazy things said in the bible and cherry pick the ideas that could still apply or be believable in a modern context. As society progresses, more and more of the shit said in the Bible is going out of fashion as civil liberties are expanded. You guys will fight tooth and nail to prevent that, and that is why many people hate bible humping religious conservatives.

8/18/11

Wow, please FUCKING quote where I said I want to to the following:

1) Teach Intelligent Design

2) Teach religion in school

I really want to see where I said either.

Yes, there is plenty of usefulness to support researching stem cells. I personally support it. I don't support the GOVERNMENT supporting it.

Let the private enterprise fund it, which they are already doing.

8/18/11

Yeah, because Bible thumping conservatives are any less fucking annoying as big government, liberals.

You all are the same, just forcing different beliefs down peoples throat.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

Yeah, because Bible thumping conservatives are any less fucking annoying as big government, liberals.

You all are the same, just forcing different beliefs down peoples throat.

yep yep yep

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

Wow, please FUCKING quote where I said I want to to the following:

1) Teach Intelligent Design

2) Teach religion in school

I really want to see where I said either.

Yes, there is plenty of usefulness to support researching stem cells. I personally support it. I don't support the GOVERNMENT supporting it.

Let the private enterprise fund it, which they are already doing.

The government has an interest in protecting public health. Most major medical research is at least partly funded by the government. You want profit driven companies to determine what medical research deserves funding? Why would a private company fund research for diseases that are not lucrative for the company to treat?

8/18/11

Public health?

That is polio, the flu, measles, etc.

Most major medical research is funded by universities and private companies. If something doesn't affect many people why should we focus on it?

Kind of like HIV research. How many more people die of illnesses that are not easily preventable. I mean a 25 cent condom and regular blood tests would reduce the spread of HIV, but we spend an enormous amount on it because of a vocal and highly affected group.

God forbid people wore condoms when they had sex. I mean too much to ask that someone practices safe sex.

8/18/11

If you don't want the government telling you who to marry, what to believe in and what to do you should want a smaller government.

But no. People just want a government that does what they want.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

Public health?

That is polio, the flu, measles, etc.

Most major medical research is funded by universities and private companies. If something doesn't affect many people why should we focus on it?

Kind of like HIV research. How many more people die of illnesses that are not easily preventable. I mean a 25 cent condom and regular blood tests would reduce the spread of HIV, but we spend an enormous amount on it because of a vocal and highly affected group.

God forbid people wore condoms when they had sex. I mean too much to ask that someone practices safe sex.

I agree HIV research funding could be spent better elsewhere.

"If something doesn't affect many people why should we focus on it?"

So those people should just wallow in the fact that they have a disease that is rare and not profitable for companies to research and treat?

8/18/11

Dude, you know that there are tons of biotech companies looking at all kinds of rare diseases.

The government funds populace crap, not real stuff.

C'mon man, you know government funding isn't going to anything but headline illnesses.

In reply to awm55
8/18/11
awm55:

The government has an interest in protecting public safety.

fixed

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

Dude, you know that there are tons of biotech companies looking at all kinds of rare diseases.

The government funds populace crap, not real stuff.

C'mon man, you know government funding isn't going to anything but headline illnesses.

Just looked at the numbers, the government funds 36% of medical research. It also funds about 20% of military research. Do you support the latter?

8/18/11

AWM

1) I 100% support military spending. It is the actual job of the Federal Government and something that the private sector cannot fund or manage.

2) I am doing some due diligence on government medical spending. Give me 5 minutes.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

AWM

1) I 100% support military spending. It is the actual job of the Federal Government and something that the private sector cannot fund or manage.

2) I am doing some due diligence on government medical spending. Give me 5 minutes.

I think most citizens of the USA would prefer the government to support medical research and not research in the most efficient ways to kill people.

8/18/11

Clinical Research 6.81%
Genetics 6.37%
Biotechnology 5.32%
Prevention 3.75%
Cancer 3.55%
Neurosciences 3.51%
Bioengineering 3.36%
Brain Disorders 2.74%
Behavioral/Social Science 2.67%
Human Genome 2.64%
Infectious Diseases 2.51%
Pediatric 2.12%
Women's Health 5/ 1.99%
Aging 1.96%
Cardiovascular 1.76%
Clinical Trials 1.57%
Health Disparities 5/ 1.55%

This is the top ~55% of the NIH funding for 2010. None of this is really focusing on those small illnesses youre talking about. Most of it is simply funding universities, etc.

So the government funds this crap and it gets sold to Pharma companies that end up profiting from it? How is this anything but a kick back to the biotech companies?

C'mon, this is big government giving kick backs, not some altruistic endeavor.

FYI - HIV/AIDS research is not on this list, but next year and all the years prior as well as going forward, it is 14th on the list of most funding.

When you consider that HIV/AIDS is one disease and all the other funding goes to general areas that encompass a lot of illnesses, you really see how one sided the government spending really is.

Distortions in the market.

8/18/11

People's unfailing capacity to believe what they prefer to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible astounds me. Faced with significant evidence to the contrary, we still pin all hope on the slimmest doubt or weakest argument.

"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."
"These people have not been able to find a job during the last 18 months on welfare. Therefore, we need to extend welfare so that they may have more time to find a job."

Regardless, whoever wrote that article and the op are needlessly exacerbating the issue. The president will not be able to mandate what schools teach, he will not shut down universities that accept evolution, nor will he have the power to decide if evolution or creationism is taught. Quit rattling the sabres.

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8/18/11

I'm going to point out that X% to 'Brain disorders could mean that .5% of that goes to some super rare whatever the fuck disease. I know this happens in genetics all the time.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to awm55
8/18/11
awm55:
ANT:

AWM

1) I 100% support military spending. It is the actual job of the Federal Government and something that the private sector cannot fund or manage.

2) I am doing some due diligence on government medical spending. Give me 5 minutes.

I think most citizens of the USA would prefer the government to support medical research and not research in the most efficient ways to kill people.

I think most Americans would support the government handing out ice cream cones to children, doesn't mean that their opinions mean dick.

National defense is a true job of government. Most of the budget goes to maintaining a ready military as well as military research, which has benefited all of us.

Internet

GPS

Space Program

Nuclear Energy

I mean this is just off the top of my head.

8/18/11

Religion is the opiate of the masses

People who say they believe in religion are:

1. Ignorant/stupid people (and actually believe the bible literally)
2. Trying to use religion to control ignorant/stupid people (it works, when was the last time you met a devout Christian democrat)
3. Contrarians (I would think most people on here saying they believe in God fall into this category because there is no way an intelligent person (someone smart enough to possibly work on Wall Street) could believe in something as dumb as a man in the sky creating humans

8/18/11

Yes, because working on wall street is indicative of intelligence.

I can deal with TheKing and AWM because they are at least intelligent, but this clown shit above is too much.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11

ANT:
I didn't mean the chortling cunt comment at you BTW.

The theory of evolution will change and adapt as more information is uncovered. The majority of people who believe in it and look down on creationism couldn't explain evolution past "we came from monkeys". If you want to believe in evolution ,fine, but actually learn the details about it. Otherwise you are just believe what someone else tells you which is basically the same thing as believe in a creator.


That's right. And we didn't come from monkeys, but we do share a common ancestor. And for your and everyone else's enjoyment, a partial explanation...from a theist, no less! Don't mind the video's title...
In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

The Bill of Rights? Come on, that was written over 200 years ago. I hate when people interpret it as an unwavering document to guide our country. It is a living document, meaning it should change with the times. Should not be so rigidly viewed. And who would tell them otherwise? FYI, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. Are you saying that people who don't have the money, shouldn't be able to send their kids to school? Because that is what you're saying if you think schools should be their own entities. You can send your kids to Catholic school if you want, but for the people going to public schools, it is very much part of the government.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/18/11

Why religious people even try and argue with creationists is beyond me. Religion is a faith based concept and will not stand up to scientific rigor. It is not supposed, nor does it benefit you. if you can't believe without proof you shouldn't bother with religion.

And this guy can comfortably says he believes in evolution. 95% of the people who say they believe in evolution couldn't get past the monkey shit. They blindly believe in evolution just like religious people blindly believe in god.

In reply to awm55
8/18/11
awm55:
ANT:

AWM

1) I 100% support military spending. It is the actual job of the Federal Government and something that the private sector cannot fund or manage.

2) I am doing some due diligence on government medical spending. Give me 5 minutes.

I think most citizens of the USA would prefer the government to support medical research and not research in the most efficient ways to kill people.

That is not the role of the government. You can't cherrypick bud.

In reply to dwight schrute
8/18/11
dwight schrute:

People's unfailing capacity to believe what they prefer to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible astounds me. Faced with significant evidence to the contrary, we still pin all hope on the slimmest doubt or weakest argument.

"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."
"These people have not been able to find a job during the last 18 months on welfare. Therefore, we need to extend welfare so that they may have more time to find a job."

Regardless, whoever wrote that article and the op are needlessly exacerbating the issue. The president will not be able to mandate what schools teach, he will not shut down universities that accept evolution, nor will he have the power to decide if evolution or creationism is taught. Quit rattling the sabres.

Uhh, pretty sure GW signed No Child Left Behind. Kind of affects the way teaching is done and is actually a really stupid bill.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to streetwannabe
8/18/11
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

The Bill of Rights? Come on, that was written over 200 years ago. I hate when people interpret it as an unwavering document to guide our country. It is a living document, meaning it should change with the times. Should not be so rigidly viewed. And who would tell them otherwise? FYI, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. Are you saying that people who don't have the money, shouldn't be able to send their kids to school? Because that is what you're saying if you think schools should be their own entities. You can send your kids to Catholic school if you want, but for the people going to public schools, it is very much part of the government.

1) Schools are funded at the state and local level, primarily through property taxes.

2) No where did I say I want to end public school. I want to end the Federal government interfering with what is largely a local issue.

3) I am against unionized teachers. We all work in a non unionized environment and as long as you do your job, you will be fine. Unions distort things and hurt education.

4) The Bill of Rights does not change. The Constituion is "living and breathing". The Bill of Rights are unalienable rights.

This is why the USA is fucked up. People think the Bill of Rights changes with time. No fucking way dude.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/18/11
streetwannabe:
dwight schrute:

People's unfailing capacity to believe what they prefer to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible astounds me. Faced with significant evidence to the contrary, we still pin all hope on the slimmest doubt or weakest argument.

"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."
"These people have not been able to find a job during the last 18 months on welfare. Therefore, we need to extend welfare so that they may have more time to find a job."

Regardless, whoever wrote that article and the op are needlessly exacerbating the issue. The president will not be able to mandate what schools teach, he will not shut down universities that accept evolution, nor will he have the power to decide if evolution or creationism is taught. Quit rattling the sabres.

Uhh, pretty sure GW signed No Child Left Behind. Kind of affects the way teaching is done and is actually a really stupid bill.

NCLB was passed with overwhelming CONGRESSIONAL support. The President doesn't do shit unless Congress says so (except in matters of foreign affairs, etc).

"NCLB supports standards-based education reform, which is based on the belief that setting high standards and establishing measurable goals can improve individual outcomes in education. The Act requires states to develop assessments in basic skills to be given to all students in certain grades, if those states are to receive federal funding for schools. The Act does not assert a national achievement standard; standards are set by each individual state"

It did not institute curriculum. It was about accountability and standardized testing.

This is the bullshit that big government gives you.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/18/11
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

The Bill of Rights? Come on, that was written over 200 years ago. I hate when people interpret it as an unwavering document to guide our country. It is a living document, meaning it should change with the times. Should not be so rigidly viewed. And who would tell them otherwise? FYI, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. Are you saying that people who don't have the money, shouldn't be able to send their kids to school? Because that is what you're saying if you think schools should be their own entities. You can send your kids to Catholic school if you want, but for the people going to public schools, it is very much part of the government.

The Department of Education is another wasteful and broken government program. Nowhere did he say what you said.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

The Bill of Rights? Come on, that was written over 200 years ago. I hate when people interpret it as an unwavering document to guide our country. It is a living document, meaning it should change with the times. Should not be so rigidly viewed. And who would tell them otherwise? FYI, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. Are you saying that people who don't have the money, shouldn't be able to send their kids to school? Because that is what you're saying if you think schools should be their own entities. You can send your kids to Catholic school if you want, but for the people going to public schools, it is very much part of the government.

1) Schools are funded at the state and local level, primarily through property taxes.

2) No where did I say I want to end public school. I want to end the Federal government interfering with what is largely a local issue.

3) I am against unionized teachers. We all work in a non unionized environment and as long as you do your job, you will be fine. Unions distort things and hurt education.

4) The Bill of Rights does not change. The Constituion is "living and breathing". The Bill of Rights are unalienable rights.

This is why the USA is fucked up. People think the Bill of Rights changes with time. No fucking way dude.

Granted it is on a local level, but it is still an arm of the government. Different places have different taxes/laws etc. but they are still guided by the government on a federal level.

Also, the Bill of Rights is living in my opinion. The Right to Bear Arms I think is a little ridiculous, but of course here in America, its one our greatest past times.

And I don't mind teachers unionizing as they are paid through the government. But that is besides the point.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:
streetwannabe:
dwight schrute:

People's unfailing capacity to believe what they prefer to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible astounds me. Faced with significant evidence to the contrary, we still pin all hope on the slimmest doubt or weakest argument.

"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."
"These people have not been able to find a job during the last 18 months on welfare. Therefore, we need to extend welfare so that they may have more time to find a job."

Regardless, whoever wrote that article and the op are needlessly exacerbating the issue. The president will not be able to mandate what schools teach, he will not shut down universities that accept evolution, nor will he have the power to decide if evolution or creationism is taught. Quit rattling the sabres.

Uhh, pretty sure GW signed No Child Left Behind. Kind of affects the way teaching is done and is actually a really stupid bill.

NCLB was passed with overwhelming CONGRESSIONAL support. The President doesn't do shit unless Congress says so (except in matters of foreign affairs, etc).

"NCLB supports standards-based education reform, which is based on the belief that setting high standards and establishing measurable goals can improve individual outcomes in education. The Act requires states to develop assessments in basic skills to be given to all students in certain grades, if those states are to receive federal funding for schools. The Act does not assert a national achievement standard; standards are set by each individual state"

It did not institute curriculum. It was about accountability and standardized testing.

This is the bullshit that big government gives you.

The president did sign the bill into affect. Of course he will do what his Republican led Congress would like, but it is a stupid bill and holds teachers accountable for their students testing.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/18/11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Departm...

70 Billion wasted on this crock of shit.

about 170MM people in this country pay federal taxes.

that is about 400.00 per person, per year, that could be saved. How many Americans could use $400 bucks.

Suppose you means tested that shit and only gave it to people earning less that 100K

that might be well over 1K per person

Yup, libertarians helping the common man. You're welcome.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:
streetwannabe:
dwight schrute:

People's unfailing capacity to believe what they prefer to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible astounds me. Faced with significant evidence to the contrary, we still pin all hope on the slimmest doubt or weakest argument.

"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."
"These people have not been able to find a job during the last 18 months on welfare. Therefore, we need to extend welfare so that they may have more time to find a job."

Regardless, whoever wrote that article and the op are needlessly exacerbating the issue. The president will not be able to mandate what schools teach, he will not shut down universities that accept evolution, nor will he have the power to decide if evolution or creationism is taught. Quit rattling the sabres.

Uhh, pretty sure GW signed No Child Left Behind. Kind of affects the way teaching is done and is actually a really stupid bill.

NCLB was passed with overwhelming CONGRESSIONAL support. The President doesn't do shit unless Congress says so (except in matters of foreign affairs, etc).

"NCLB supports standards-based education reform, which is based on the belief that setting high standards and establishing measurable goals can improve individual outcomes in education. The Act requires states to develop assessments in basic skills to be given to all students in certain grades, if those states are to receive federal funding for schools. The Act does not assert a national achievement standard; standards are set by each individual state"

It did not institute curriculum. It was about accountability and standardized testing.

This is the bullshit that big government gives you.

Beat me to it.
street, the state government creates and institutes the education and deems if the student is proficient. dubya, obama, and the 2012 winner have no authority over the subject matter

Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art - Andy Warhol

8/18/11

Teachers being paid by the government is exactly why they shouldn't be able to unionize. We as taxpayers are getting fucked. All government employees should be barred from unionizing. It's unethical and downright stupid.

You be sure to post in your front yard that you think the 2A is ridiculous so the thieves know who won't put up a fight.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/18/11
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

The Bill of Rights? Come on, that was written over 200 years ago. I hate when people interpret it as an unwavering document to guide our country. It is a living document, meaning it should change with the times. Should not be so rigidly viewed. And who would tell them otherwise? FYI, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. Are you saying that people who don't have the money, shouldn't be able to send their kids to school? Because that is what you're saying if you think schools should be their own entities. You can send your kids to Catholic school if you want, but for the people going to public schools, it is very much part of the government.

1) Schools are funded at the state and local level, primarily through property taxes.

2) No where did I say I want to end public school. I want to end the Federal government interfering with what is largely a local issue.

3) I am against unionized teachers. We all work in a non unionized environment and as long as you do your job, you will be fine. Unions distort things and hurt education.

4) The Bill of Rights does not change. The Constituion is "living and breathing". The Bill of Rights are unalienable rights.

This is why the USA is fucked up. People think the Bill of Rights changes with time. No fucking way dude.

Granted it is on a local level, but it is still an arm of the government. Different places have different taxes/laws etc. but they are still guided by the government on a federal level.

Also, the Bill of Rights is living in my opinion. The Right to Bear Arms I think is a little ridiculous, but of course here in America, its one our greatest past times.

And I don't mind teachers unionizing as they are paid through the government. But that is besides the point.

OMG, dude, listen. Go learn something and then come back and debate.

1) NCLB was passed with an overwhelming, bipartisan support. Both parties supported it

2) Being a libertarian means supporting states rights. The state government has different duties than the Federal government. The local level is very different than the Federal.

The DOE should be shut down and the FEDERAL government should be shrunk.

3) Good thing your opinion isn't the law of the land. The Bill of Rights is unalienable and natural rights. Freedom of speech, right to bear arms, freedom of the press, etc. These are not up for discussion or what you think.

Paid through the government? How do you think the government gets fucking money dude? WE PAY FOR TEACHERS.

Holy shit, is this really the conversation I am having right now. People don't know how the government gets paid. They don't know what the Bill of Rights are. No wonder our freedoms and liberties are being trampled. People don't even know what hey are.

8/18/11
8/18/11

The reason it is an issue is because isn't so much because of stem cell research or teaching intelligent design (although, at least to me, this is a big issue and I think its terribly wrong to teach intelligent design in public school) is because these politicians blatantly ignore scientific evidence, opting instead to pander to religious interests. The fact is, it is wrong, and shows that they will bring this wrong sort of judgment to the Oval Office if elected.

Everyone sees that the sky is blue. How many people know that its caused by Rayleigh Scattering? If the Bible said something like "The sky is blue because it was the color of Jesus' eyes", they would force this to be taught in public schools. Its not wrong to have a religion. It is wrong to force the beliefs and dogmas of that religion onto the general populace.

BTW, the world was created by the flying spaghetti monster. This should be taught in public schools as well.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
In reply to txjustin
8/18/11
txjustin:

Teachers being paid by the government is exactly why they shouldn't be able to unionize. We as taxpayers are getting fucked. All government employees should be barred from unionizing. It's unethical and downright stupid.

You be sure to post in your front yard that you think the 2A is ridiculous so the thieves know who won't put up a fight.

This. It places an unfair burden on future taxpayers who have no option but to pay increasing taxes in order to fund raises or benefit increases.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo88/speezack/G...

Just for you TX

Dude that is fucking awesome!! Thanks for the laugh.

8/18/11

Why do teachers need unions, but most other white collar workers do not?

Unions came into being because people were being forced to work inhumane hours and in horrible conditions. Eventually these things stopped and unions had to find another way to stay in power. So now they spread to other fields of work that have no business being unionized.

I love it. Look at non unionized auto workers in the south. They make like $15-20 bucks an hour with great benefits and do their job. Meanwhile the union guys in Michigan are dying a slow death.

If teachers were not unionized the good ones would make a ton of money and the shitty ones would probably just never get a raise. If shitty workers can keep their jobs in every industry under the sun, shitty teachers would still find work.

8/18/11

Ant, you didn't have to do Street like that man. He's prolly crying behind his liberal computer screen right now.

In reply to LIBOR
8/18/11

The reason it is an issue is because isn't so much because of stem cell research or teaching intelligent design (although, at least to me, this is a big issue and I think its terribly wrong to teach intelligent design in public school) is because these politicians blatantly ignore scientific evidence, opting instead to pander to religious interests. The fact is, it is wrong, and shows that they will bring this wrong sort of judgment to the Oval Office if elected.

Everyone sees that the sky is blue. How many people know that its caused by Rayleigh Scattering? If the Bible said something like "The sky is blue because it was the color of Jesus' eyes", they would force this to be taught in public schools. Its not wrong to have a religion. It is wrong to force the beliefs and dogmas of that religion onto the general populace.

BTW, the world was created by the flying spaghetti monster. This should be taught in public schools as well.

LIBOR

I 100% agree with you. I think anyone who ignores OVERWHELMING scientific evidence and does something counter to this should never be President.

In fact, someone who does this should be impeached.

Kind of like people who smoke even though all the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE points to it killing you.
http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/obama_smokes.jpg

See what I did there? You single out religion, but people ignore shit all the time. We are not vulcans, we don't always do what science says.

I've taken maybe 3 biology classes my whole life. Doesn't really hinder me. Believing in God and not believe in evolution doesn't mean shit. It is a personal opinion and has zero bearing on being President.

I still love ya bro, just pointing some stuff out.

In reply to txjustin
8/18/11
txjustin:

Teachers being paid by the government is exactly why they shouldn't be able to unionize. We as taxpayers are getting fucked. All government employees should be barred from unionizing. It's unethical and downright stupid.

You be sure to post in your front yard that you think the 2A is ridiculous so the thieves know who won't put up a fight.

Teachers signed a contract when they took that job that promised them X salary, X benefits, and X pension. The government cannot break those promises, they are contractually bound. I believe Christie tried to do that in NJ, its unethical and exactly the reason many people think Unions are necessary.

In reply to awm55
8/18/11
awm55:
txjustin:

Teachers being paid by the government is exactly why they shouldn't be able to unionize. We as taxpayers are getting fucked. All government employees should be barred from unionizing. It's unethical and downright stupid.

You be sure to post in your front yard that you think the 2A is ridiculous so the thieves know who won't put up a fight.

Teachers signed a contract when they took that job that promised them X salary, X benefits, and X pension. The government cannot break those promises, they are contractually bound. I believe Christie tried to do that in NJ, its unethical and exactly the reason many people think Unions are necessary.

I agree, contracts should not be broken. But they can also end and not be renewed. Let the union contract end and then tell people unions are done with. Real simple. Life will go on, people will get paid and not much will change.

In reply to awm55
8/18/11
awm55:
txjustin:

Teachers being paid by the government is exactly why they shouldn't be able to unionize. We as taxpayers are getting fucked. All government employees should be barred from unionizing. It's unethical and downright stupid.

You be sure to post in your front yard that you think the 2A is ridiculous so the thieves know who won't put up a fight.

Teachers signed a contract when they took that job that promised them X salary, X benefits, and X pension. The government cannot break those promises, they are contractually bound. I believe Christie tried to do that in NJ, its unethical and exactly the reason many people think Unions are necessary.

what does that have to do with unions

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

The reason it is an issue is because isn't so much because of stem cell research or teaching intelligent design (although, at least to me, this is a big issue and I think its terribly wrong to teach intelligent design in public school) is because these politicians blatantly ignore scientific evidence, opting instead to pander to religious interests. The fact is, it is wrong, and shows that they will bring this wrong sort of judgment to the Oval Office if elected.

Everyone sees that the sky is blue. How many people know that its caused by Rayleigh Scattering? If the Bible said something like "The sky is blue because it was the color of Jesus' eyes", they would force this to be taught in public schools. Its not wrong to have a religion. It is wrong to force the beliefs and dogmas of that religion onto the general populace.

BTW, the world was created by the flying spaghetti monster. This should be taught in public schools as well.

LIBOR

I 100% agree with you. I think anyone who ignores OVERWHELMING scientific evidence and does something counter to this should never be President.

In fact, someone who does this should be impeached.

Kind of like people who smoke even though all the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE points to it killing you.
http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/obama_smokes.jpg

See what I did there? You single out religion, but people ignore shit all the time. We are not vulcans, we don't always do what science says.

I've taken maybe 3 biology classes my whole life. Doesn't really hinder me. Believing in God and not believe in evolution doesn't mean shit. It is a personal opinion and has zero bearing on being President.

I still love ya bro, just pointing some stuff out.

But Obama is not espousing smoking and forcing people to do it. In fact he raised taxes on cigarettes.

Pushing creationism in school is a slippery slope. As I said before, science is a universal language, religion isn't.

8/18/11

To the OP, I won't vote for a candidate that doesn't believe in evolution because it shows they are illogical and biased by their faith, which will wreak havoc over all of their decision making skills.

Just curious, were any of you Biology, Chemistry, or Physics majors? If not, you should shut the fuck up.

In reply to whatwhatwhat
8/18/11
whatwhatwhat:
awm55:
txjustin:

Teachers being paid by the government is exactly why they shouldn't be able to unionize. We as taxpayers are getting fucked. All government employees should be barred from unionizing. It's unethical and downright stupid.

You be sure to post in your front yard that you think the 2A is ridiculous so the thieves know who won't put up a fight.

Teachers signed a contract when they took that job that promised them X salary, X benefits, and X pension. The government cannot break those promises, they are contractually bound. I believe Christie tried to do that in NJ, its unethical and exactly the reason many people think Unions are necessary.

what does that have to do with unions

X2, patiently waiting.

8/18/11

Please tell me what President is pushing creationism?

The Federal government has jack shit power or right to push anything on the schools.

Let science classes teach whatever they want. Evolution is sciences theory of creation. It is going to be updated and change as time goes on. We keep getting closer or finding new information.

In reply to Jose.Rey
8/18/11
Jose.Rey:

To the OP, I won't vote for a candidate that doesn't believe in evolution because it shows they are illogical and biased by their faith, which will wreak havoc over all of their decision making skills.

Just curious, were any of you Biology, Chemistry, or Physics majors? If not, you should shut the fuck up.

Exactly what I have been saying. Too many people believe science without knowing the the research that supports it.

8/18/11

It's getting frothy in here. I am going for a run. Hopefully some more misinformation will be posted while I am gone.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11

ANT:
Evolution is sciences theory of creation.

Let's be careful about how we use the word "theory" in the context of science. It's much more meaningful than used in it's common form.
http://notjustatheory.com/
In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

It's getting frothy in here. I am going for a run. Hopefully some more misinformation will be posted while I am gone.

Running at midnight in Philly? At least we'll know how you died.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

8/18/11

Evolution is still filling in the gaps, still uncovering missing pieces, still refining the story. It is a theory and a work in progress.

Anyone who says they don't believe in evolution because it is a theory is a retard. You can't shit on something without at least having a reason.

In reply to TNA
8/18/11
ANT:

The reason it is an issue is because isn't so much because of stem cell research or teaching intelligent design (although, at least to me, this is a big issue and I think its terribly wrong to teach intelligent design in public school) is because these politicians blatantly ignore scientific evidence, opting instead to pander to religious interests. The fact is, it is wrong, and shows that they will bring this wrong sort of judgment to the Oval Office if elected.

Everyone sees that the sky is blue. How many people know that its caused by Rayleigh Scattering? If the Bible said something like "The sky is blue because it was the color of Jesus' eyes", they would force this to be taught in public schools. Its not wrong to have a religion. It is wrong to force the beliefs and dogmas of that religion onto the general populace.

BTW, the world was created by the flying spaghetti monster. This should be taught in public schools as well.

LIBOR

I 100% agree with you. I think anyone who ignores OVERWHELMING scientific evidence and does something counter to this should never be President.

In fact, someone who does this should be impeached.

Kind of like people who smoke even though all the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE points to it killing you.
http://www.dba-oracle.com/images/obama_smokes.jpg

See what I did there? You single out religion, but people ignore shit all the time. We are not vulcans, we don't always do what science says.

I've taken maybe 3 biology classes my whole life. Doesn't really hinder me. Believing in God and not believe in evolution doesn't mean shit. It is a personal opinion and has zero bearing on being President.

I still love ya bro, just pointing some stuff out.

I guess, to me personally, I find it to be an important issue. Its not that they are religious... every president is (at least, publicly) religious, so I don't have any problems with that. In fact, I can't name a single atheist politician.

To me, there is a difference between being religious and reasonable, and being religious to the extent where you not only ignore overwhelming evidence supporting a scientific theory, but to demand that our public institutions also teach an 'alternative' to this theory(intelligent design), an alternative which has no scientific backing or academic credibility. Its one thing to ignore evolution, or to not accept it as scientific fact. It is another thing to demand that our government also endorses a religious alternative, despite the lack of credibility for intelligent design.

Candidates that do so, at least to me, demonstrate that they might also do the same sort of thing for other policy issues while in office. Thus, a candidate who supports intelligent design might choose to ignore the facts of a situation, and instead endorse a particular policy without any credibility, since it complies with their own personal beliefs.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
In reply to happypantsmcgee
8/18/11
happypantsmcgee:
ANT:

It's getting frothy in here. I am going for a run. Hopefully some more misinformation will be posted while I am gone.

Running at midnight in Philly? At least we'll know how you died.

Fully gym in my building. I'm not stupid bro.

8/19/11

I do find it hilarious that liberals are all up in arms if people believe in evolution or God. Why? Because they don't like hearing what they regard as stupidity. The so-called tolerant liberals are intolerant on a vast variety of things. Look at circumcision- SF banned it for no real reason. Some medical advice says its beneficial, but because they think it is so stupid it is banned. The list goes on and on. STEM CELLS? Do they have to be fetal...no...but is that what the government funds? Yes. Rather than solving diseases by adult donation, it is simply easier to kill fetal children and experiment. The government shouldn't be in the business of helping this. Nor abortion. Look at the Department of education. Why not use a voucher system? Because that would hurt the crappy union teachers at the benefit of the students. Boo-hoo, how dare the big bad Republicans introduce competition.

Although I believe in evolution, short-term evolution is proven, but the mass migration from one species to another is not.

he thing about the government funding rare diseases is an utter fallacy. I have a rare disease affecting about 70k people across the world and it gets no funding from the government. The selection of diseases to research by the government is detrimental to the other, rarer ones. Why was AIDS such a problems when the government didn't address it? Because they were funding other research ones. If you don't wanna cut NIH funding, then at lest line item veto the programs. I mean come on....there are programs testing the effects of cocaine on sheep.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

In reply to txjustin
8/19/11
txjustin:

Ant, you didn't have to do Street like that man. He's prolly crying behind his liberal computer screen right now.

Haha, thank you for so blatantly labeling me, but it is alright. I always like some good banter, even if I lose. All part of sharing opinions and such. I did shed a small tear though

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/19/11

Just pointing out as well, it really doesn't matter if evolution could be completely confirmed. There are still a lot of philosophical questions that it does not answer that many believe religion does answer. Either way, I think the best belief is to acknowledge that it doesn't matter and by admitting that you don't have the answers (nobody does, has, or ever will) is the best answer.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/19/11

Socrates was the wisest man because he recognized how little he truly did know. The second we start thinking we know it all is the second we set ourselves up to look like fools.

In reply to TNA
8/19/11
ANT:

This is why the USA is fucked up. People think the Bill of Rights changes with time. No fucking way dude.

No the USA is fucked because there are more reasonable people then dumbasses but it is the dumbasses who make the choices. I have a theory that the more popular someone is the less they see reality the way it is. Im not talking about like the "cool kid in school" types but on a national scale. You see it everywhere sports, entertainment, politics. The more popular some one is the less they feel the moral and legal systems apply to them. That my fellow monkeys is why the USA and more likely mankind is fucked.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

In reply to streetwannabe
8/19/11
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:
ANT:
streetwannabe:

It is immensely important in whether or not they believe in creationism! If you believe in creationism in America, usually you are Christian. Therefore it is safe to assume that these people will have very different stances on abortion, global warming, teaching science in school, stem cell research, etc. Most stances that people with religious views take is not one guided by reason, but their own faith. Or even worse, how they interpret it.

and ANT; telling people that their spouse/friend/child went to heaven or telling that dying person that does not make anything easier. If they believe they will go to heaven then they already do, but it will not change anything for them (the fact that they are dying) or people who lose them. Atheism isn't meant to comfort people, and if you perhaps don't believe in an afterlife, you just might be a little more appreciative and aware of this one.

Guided by reason? This country is guided by the mother fucking constitution and bill of rights. Last time I checked people are allowed to have any religious beliefs. You don't want the President or government telling schools what they should teach? Well me either, hence my desire for a smaller government and more liberty.

The Bill of Rights? Come on, that was written over 200 years ago. I hate when people interpret it as an unwavering document to guide our country. It is a living document, meaning it should change with the times. Should not be so rigidly viewed. And who would tell them otherwise? FYI, PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT. Are you saying that people who don't have the money, shouldn't be able to send their kids to school? Because that is what you're saying if you think schools should be their own entities. You can send your kids to Catholic school if you want, but for the people going to public schools, it is very much part of the government.

1) Schools are funded at the state and local level, primarily through property taxes.

2) No where did I say I want to end public school. I want to end the Federal government interfering with what is largely a local issue.

3) I am against unionized teachers. We all work in a non unionized environment and as long as you do your job, you will be fine. Unions distort things and hurt education.

4) The Bill of Rights does not change. The Constituion is "living and breathing". The Bill of Rights are unalienable rights.

This is why the USA is fucked up. People think the Bill of Rights changes with time. No fucking way dude.

Granted it is on a local level, but it is still an arm of the government. Different places have different taxes/laws etc. but they are still guided by the government on a federal level.

Also, the Bill of Rights is living in my opinion. The Right to Bear Arms I think is a little ridiculous, but of course here in America, its one our greatest past times.

And I don't mind teachers unionizing as they are paid through the government. But that is besides the point.

LOL... Holy Shit...

In reply to happypantsmcgee
8/19/11
happypantsmcgee:

I'm going to point out that X% to 'Brain disorders could mean that .5% of that goes to some super rare whatever the fuck disease. I know this happens in genetics all the time.

^ yep. It's typically not profitable to treat this stuff, so if the gov't doesn't fund it, it will never get done. That 5% is better than nothing.

Get busy living

8/19/11

I get a good laugh when I see people argue against what I posted with the "theKing hates religion" argument. I did not mention religion in my post, nor do I hate religion when kept private.

What I am saying, is that I cannot take someone seriously if they dismiss facts and reason because it does not fit with what what want to believe in. I have no issue with someone believing in God (again, I am not an atheist), but I have big issues with someone pushing their religious dogma onto others.

Others have argued that pushing a political point of view is analogous to pushing religion. That is not true. Why? Because no one can prove their religious belief system to be true because it is impossible to prove the existence of God. Further, there is virtually zero reason to believe in a personal God who created man in his image. It's fine if you want to believe that, but there is zero proof, so don't push religious views on the public in place of science, and don't mock incredibly thorough, researched, and documented science because it doesn't tie with what you want to believe.

Again, I believe in a higher power of sorts, spinoza's God, if you will, I just think that imaging it to be a father figure in the sky in our image who really cares about where you stick your dick is incredibly egotistical on the part of mankind, and quite frankly, pretty stupid (with regard to the sex stuff).

In reply to TNA
8/19/11
ANT:

Socrates was the wisest man because he recognized how little he truly did know. The second we start thinking we know it all is the second we set ourselves up to look like fools.

Glad to agree on something reasonable.

But one more thing for me to clarify, I may be wrong so feel free to correct me again; Teachers deserve to unionize because they no not work for a private corporation. They cannot be compared with auto workers in the south and union workers in the north. Teachers unionize I feel out of pay concerns, which seem legitimate to me seeing as they go to school for 6 years and get paid hardly enough, especially the good teachers.

Also, on your former post ANT, you really agree with military spending? I am all for homeland defense, but I think that is a big difference compared to blowing 3 million dollars on a missile that can destroy a village from 350 miles away.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/19/11

What teachers go to school for 6 years? Maybe if they took 9 hours per semester.

8/19/11

Well you can go for 5, but my girlfriend is actually a teacher. You have to get your masters to even get a job in teaching anymore, especially with the cuts schools are making. She went for four years, graduated, and is starting her 2 year masters program.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to streetwannabe
8/19/11
streetwannabe:

Well you can go for 5, but my girlfriend is actually a teacher. You have to get your masters to even get a job in teaching anymore, especially with the cuts schools are making. She went for four years, graduated, and is starting her 2 year masters program.

What did she major in? Over the passed two years, my friends with chemistry and biology degrees have had no trouble getting high school teaching jobs. No masters needed.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/19/11
streetwannabe:

Well you can go for 5, but my girlfriend is actually a teacher. You have to get your masters to even get a job in teaching anymore, especially with the cuts schools are making. She went for four years, graduated, and is starting her 2 year masters program.

Not sure where you are, but where I am I know several teachers and they have nothing but the run of the mill 4 year degree.

8/19/11

I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but in the Northeast competetion for full time teaching positions is becoming very tough. The older generation is a different story, but to GET a teaching job now is becoming very difficult and a masters is becoming an unofficial requisite. Contracts that are multiple years long, say 4 or 5 are a good idea, but I don't support permanent tenure OR annual review.

The goal is long term stability and growth, and the current trend is to redline the system for short term growth and then dump the problem on the next guy.....maybe good on Wall Street, not good for children. The educational system isn't THAT bad. I'm just thinking that maybe American parents put some more emphasis on education and we'll be ok.

Seriously, what's with the hysterics??????

Get busy living

8/19/11

txjustin and vanburenboyz, she majored in secondary english education. I am in the Northeast and she has an internship this fall, however here (in NY) they recently made huge teaching cuts and she would be lucky to get a job after her internship. She has a decent GPA and already has student taught. Her internship doesn't pay hardly anything (1200 a month in NY is almost min wage) so it is really hard for her to get into schools around here without a masters in English.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/19/11

Not necessarily talking about your girl street, but what motivates somebody to get a masters to become a teacher? Not exactly cost effective. If that is the new norm, the education bubble is gonna be huge before it pops.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/19/11
streetwannabe:

Well you can go for 5, but my girlfriend is actually a teacher. You have to get your masters to even get a job in teaching anymore, especially with the cuts schools are making. She went for four years, graduated, and is starting her 2 year masters program.

The majority of teachers out there went to STATE U and studied Gen Ed / Sec Ed/ Special Ed. Most people would not consider the average teacher anything more then average from the rest of America. For the Gen Ed / Sec Ed / Special Ed degree at State U, they get $XXK a year (starting) for 8 months of work. They contribute very little to benefits, if any at all. In most states, They cannot be fired after they receive tenure at 2 years. Once the teacher has her class plan down, which is what her undergrad was mainly for, she just teaches and follows the exact same plan year after year.

Teaching addition and subtraction to 2nd graders is not rocket science. They get exceptional benefits and pay for the work they do 8 months out of the year. I know a couple kids in TFA and they get their masters from the local state school while working full time. They aren't doing fucking applied mathematics.

8/19/11

txjustin, I think this will become the new norm, not just teaching, but everything. These days, even in business if you want to move up, you have to go to Bus school. Its almost the same in every profession now. I mean, my grandfather was an engineer for IBM and never even went to college! Now days you couldn't hardly be a receptionist at IBM without some college degree. Everything is more competitive and younger people are doing more things. Everybody is just trying to keep up

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/19/11

I agree with that, the masters has basically become the new bachelor degree in a large part of the US. Virtually everyone I know who majored in engineering did a 1-year masters coming out of undergrad to be hire-able. I'm guessing that this rule may not hold as true in the south or the flyover states, but if you want a white-collar job (and I consider teaching and engineering to be white-collar) in an urban area, you have to get the masters eventually, if not right away.

8/19/11

Maybe there are more jobs here in Texas, I don't know. Engineering and such don't need to get a masters to be employable. Doesn't hurt, but not necessary.

8/19/11

The one thing I do have against nearly all religions is the way that people choose to accept it. If you think about it, almost nobody actually chooses their religion. There are some converts, but most people are born in town X, go to church, are raised Christian or whatever and therefore believe in that. Had they been born somewhere else or even raised somewhere else, they might have totally different views. How many claimed Christians have actually looked at different religions? I find it very rare that somebody actually chooses their own religious beliefs on what they think is actually a good religious platform. Most conform to the general beliefs in their community and become a product of that environment which in my mind is a very simpleton view of something that usually determines many of your traits and life views.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to BansheeBeats
8/19/11
BansheeBeats:

I don't necessarily care about a person's religion or their belief in God - that's a private issue and it's usually of no concern to me. I do have an issue when those beliefs bleed into the public sphere. More than anything, I think this is an issue of character. I don't trust Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann and Rick Santorum to not govern based on religion. They're uncompromising and willfully ignorant people. They can believe what they want, but their black and white mentality has no place in governing this country.

This isn't a knock against religion. There are many religious people who can reconcile their faith and evidence supporting evolution. There are also many religious people who don't believe in evolution but would never support teaching intelligent design in classes. I could vote for Huntsman or Romney knowing that they're religious and conservative, but open to different perspectives and willing to compromise when governing.

I guess it's kind of a proxy indicator for me. But honestly, who doesn't believe in evolution these days? It's not even belief as much as acceptance. The fact that this is still up for debate is crazy to me.

+1

This is the issue I have with the Republican Party. They constantly put up candidates who are so insanely ideologically stubborn and averse to facts that the media spends half their time pummeling them on stupid shit they have said. They completely dodge the question, and the cycle starts over again. The last debate was stomach churning, all the candidates were repeating talking points, no original ideas at all except from Paul. Put up someone moderate that does not pander to the tea party or the evangelical right and I will vote Republican, simple. Bloomberg comes to mind.

Huntsman and Romney are the best of a bad bunch by far. But again, how many evangelicals are going to vote for a Mormon?

8/19/11
streetwannabe:

The one thing I do have against nearly all religions is the way that people choose to accept it. If you think about it, almost nobody actually chooses their religion. There are some converts, but most people are born in town X, go to church, are raised Christian or whatever and therefore believe in that. Had they been born somewhere else or even raised somewhere else, they might have totally different views. How many claimed Christians have actually looked at different religions? I find it very rare that somebody actually chooses their own religious beliefs on what they think is actually a good religious platform. Most conform to the general beliefs in their community and become a product of that environment which in my mind is a very simpleton view of something that usually determines many of your traits and life views.

Great point. I think this is the real problem with religions today. People are usually (not always) afraid to explore the purpose of their religion and religion in general. If you look at the messages of the great religious figures throughout history you can find commonality in the underlying message. As someone who was raised in a religious family but never had it forced on me I've explored many of the religions particularly the eastern ones. Just like with any methodology you will see results if you practice the steps. People aren't only looking for material understanding provided by science in this life. If you are looking for a greater understanding of self you will see why people gravitate toward the message of religion and spirituality. There's need for a greater science than simply the science of modern times. It's clear that we want an answer to how it all started, why we exist, or any "deep" question, but it seems evident that these questions won't be answered by science so we simply deem them unanswerable. When someone states they have found answers through whatever medium we dismiss them because it seems illogical that a person can reach that understanding. How can you know the result of a methodology if you don't practice it yourself? Most religious people simply believe in God, whatever that means. They don't strive or aim to achieve a connection where God is actually realized (I use the term God liberally, there is no need to qualify God as a white bearded governor in the sky). I do disagree with blind belief but unfortunately that seems to be prevalent. We believe in evolution because we were taught it, the same way we believe in religion. If you study evolution you will see there are differing ideologies. I've read Stephen Jay Gould's view on it and it is vastly different then the common understanding of slow and steady evolution throughout the history of species. In each field we are progressing towards the truth and as different people look to find it, there will be an inevitable rise of differing paths and opinions. The Yogis say that through many paths we will come to a final truth. Perhaps there will be a convergence of many of the ideas we currently think are incompatible. I know there has been some study into the convergence of spirituality and quantum physics although I personally don't know how much merit there is to it.

Bit of a ramble and slightly off topic but the quote spurred some thoughts I had.

8/19/11

the term intelligent design is pretty ironic if you ask kenny fucking powers.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

8/22/11

As a non-American I must admit I'm pretty ignorant on these issues, but from what our media suggests, most Americans are anti-free healthcare provision and anti-free education provision. If this is true then seriously?? WTF. No wonder most of the world thinks Americans are gun-toting, right wingers.

For what it's worth, it seems as though Obama has been on the right track socially, but has failed abysmally economically. From what we've seen of the Republican candidates over here, it seems as though Paul is the best! God help us if Perry or Bachmann get in.....

In reply to Asatar
8/22/11
Asatar:

As a non-American I must admit I'm pretty ignorant on these issues, but from what our media suggests, most Americans are anti-free healthcare provision and anti-free education provision. If this is true then seriously?? WTF. No wonder most of the world thinks Americans are gun-toting, right wingers..

News Flash: Healthcare and Education aren't fucking FREE. This entitlement bullshit that the rest of the world has is the difference between the USA and everyone else. Its why America is the greatest nation in the world. Its funny that the rest of the world thinks we are such lazy hillbillys, yet almost all innovation comes from an American company or entrepreneur, we are constantly at the front of any research and cure, and we donate money and supplies hand over fist to the next closest country, both as a government and as individual citizens.

In reply to WestCoastDeveloper
8/22/11
Nobama88:
Asatar:

As a non-American I must admit I'm pretty ignorant on these issues, but from what our media suggests, most Americans are anti-free healthcare provision and anti-free education provision. If this is true then seriously?? WTF. No wonder most of the world thinks Americans are gun-toting, right wingers..

News Flash: Healthcare and Education aren't fucking FREE. This entitlement bullshit that the rest of the world has is the difference between the USA and everyone else. Its why America is the greatest nation in the world. Its funny that the rest of the world thinks we are such lazy hillbillys, yet almost all innovation comes from an American company or entrepreneur, we are constantly at the front of any research and cure, and we donate money and supplies hand over fist to the next closest country, both as a government and as individual citizens.

Agree 100000000% with this. Europe can have its 35 hour work weeks and welfare state governments because while they're "busy" taking siestas, we're protecting the free world. We're the ones fighting the war on terror, we're the ones responsible for the bulk of major innovations and the greatest and most powerful companies on Earth. Yes, America has its flaws as all nations do, but I'd rather have a bullet in my skull than live anywhere else.

In reply to TheKing
8/22/11
TheKing:
Nobama88:
Asatar:

As a non-American I must admit I'm pretty ignorant on these issues, but from what our media suggests, most Americans are anti-free healthcare provision and anti-free education provision. If this is true then seriously?? WTF. No wonder most of the world thinks Americans are gun-toting, right wingers..

News Flash: Healthcare and Education aren't fucking FREE. This entitlement bullshit that the rest of the world has is the difference between the USA and everyone else. Its why America is the greatest nation in the world. Its funny that the rest of the world thinks we are such lazy hillbillys, yet almost all innovation comes from an American company or entrepreneur, we are constantly at the front of any research and cure, and we donate money and supplies hand over fist to the next closest country, both as a government and as individual citizens.

Agree 100000000% with this. Europe can have its 35 hour work weeks and welfare state governments because while they're "busy" taking siestas, we're protecting the free world. We're the ones fighting the war on terror, we're the ones responsible for the bulk of major innovations and the greatest and most powerful companies on Earth. Yes, America has its flaws as all nations do, but I'd rather have a bullet in my skull than live anywhere else.

I'll avoid the bullet in the brain part [the Caribbean is nice] but I agree as well. The European welfare state is a massive fraud: the security concerns of the world have been foisted upon us and so they can afford [sort of] such a laid back way of life. It's unraveling though, just look at Greece....I hope Europe gets their head out of their ass, and fast: their civilization is collapsing.

Get busy living

In reply to TheKing
8/22/11
TheKing:
Nobama88:
Asatar:

As a non-American I must admit I'm pretty ignorant on these issues, but from what our media suggests, most Americans are anti-free healthcare provision and anti-free education provision. If this is true then seriously?? WTF. No wonder most of the world thinks Americans are gun-toting, right wingers..

News Flash: Healthcare and Education aren't fucking FREE. This entitlement bullshit that the rest of the world has is the difference between the USA and everyone else. Its why America is the greatest nation in the world. Its funny that the rest of the world thinks we are such lazy hillbillys, yet almost all innovation comes from an American company or entrepreneur, we are constantly at the front of any research and cure, and we donate money and supplies hand over fist to the next closest country, both as a government and as individual citizens.

Agree 100000000% with this. Europe can have its 35 hour work weeks and welfare state governments
because while they're "busy" taking siestas, we're protecting the free world. We're the ones fighting the war on terror, we're the ones responsible for the bulk of major innovations and the greatest and most powerful companies on Earth. Yes, America has its flaws as all nations do, but I'd rather have a bullet in my skull than live anywhere else.

TheKing, I agree 10000000^2% with this.

8/22/11

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

In reply to TheKing
8/22/11
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

8/22/11

Just a question for The King; what are you talking about war on terror? I think this "war" is more subject to our own country more than most. Not saying terrorism doesn't happen in other countries, but I've never really understood how you fight "terrorism" since it is more of an ideology than anything.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/22/11

@streetwannabe:

Call it what you want, but we're the reason why Al Qaeda is nearly destroyed. London was bombed, Spain, other countries in Europe have been attacked directly / indirectly by fundamentalist groups...and we're fighting them. Beyond the war on terror, we are the de facto defense force for our allies and our pals in Europe know that and rest easy because of it.

In reply to awm55
8/22/11
awm55:
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

First off, are you refferring to the University systems? (which I would agree) or primary schools? (In which the US has consistently lost ground to other countries : Japan and Finland for instance)

Also, better standards of living might be true in some aspects, but in terms of health US is not the top of the top. Many other nations in Europe and other progressives (health wise) have made much stricter bans on fast food chains for example as to what kind of shit they can put into their food. So, we would need good healthcare anyways. Just a side not, of course the US's healthcare will be the best. When you have to pay through the nose for anything, it will likely be better

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to TheKing
8/22/11
TheKing:

@streetwannabe:

Call it what you want, but we're the reason why Al Qaeda is nearly destroyed. London was bombed, Spain, other countries in Europe have been attacked directly / indirectly by fundamentalist groups...and we're fighting them. Beyond the war on terror, we are the de facto defense force for our allies and our pals in Europe know that and rest easy because of it.

I can certainly agree with the fundamentals of your statement. It may just seem obsolete to me, because even though we've killed Osama, it will not change anything. I guess my issue is just with the way we are fighting said war, not what you've said.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:
awm55:
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

First off, are you refferring to the University systems? (which I would agree) or primary schools? (In which the US has consistently lost ground to other countries : Japan and Finland for instance)

Also, better standards of living might be true in some aspects, but in terms of health US is not the top of the top. Many other nations in Europe and other progressives (health wise) have made much stricter bans on fast food chains for example as to what kind of shit they can put into their food. So, we would need good healthcare anyways. Just a side not, of course the US's healthcare will be the best. When you have to pay through the nose for anything, it will likely be better

We don't want some government czar telling us what we can/can't eat. Not sure if you're trying to speak positively about that or not...

In reply to txjustin
8/22/11
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
awm55:
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

First off, are you refferring to the University systems? (which I would agree) or primary schools? (In which the US has consistently lost ground to other countries : Japan and Finland for instance)

Also, better standards of living might be true in some aspects, but in terms of health US is not the top of the top. Many other nations in Europe and other progressives (health wise) have made much stricter bans on fast food chains for example as to what kind of shit they can put into their food. So, we would need good healthcare anyways. Just a side not, of course the US's healthcare will be the best. When you have to pay through the nose for anything, it will likely be better

We don't want some government czar telling us what we can/can't eat. Not sure if you're trying to speak positively about that or not...

Not really talking about what we can or can't eat. More talking about a drug with xyz chemical in it that you have no fucking idea what it is, and take it to relieve symptoms and all of the sudden pass out while driving or have sever liver damage for example. Or mandating the amounts of grams of fat McDonalds and co are allowed to put into their food. Or amount of partially hydrogenated soybean oil Cheetohs uses in its food. These sorts of things are not as well regulated here in the US compared to other developed nations.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

8/22/11

You call it regulation, I call it control.

Every other day I hear about some new thing that will kill you, then shortly after they say it's good for you.

In reply to txjustin
8/22/11
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
awm55:
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

First off, are you refferring to the University systems? (which I would agree) or primary schools? (In which the US has consistently lost ground to other countries : Japan and Finland for instance)

Also, better standards of living might be true in some aspects, but in terms of health US is not the top of the top. Many other nations in Europe and other progressives (health wise) have made much stricter bans on fast food chains for example as to what kind of shit they can put into their food. So, we would need good healthcare anyways. Just a side not, of course the US's healthcare will be the best. When you have to pay through the nose for anything, it will likely be better

We don't want some government czar telling us what we can/can't eat. Not sure if you're trying to speak positively about that or not...

This is why I can't take you seriously, we are the fattest country on earth and obviously the fat fucks in this country can't control themselves. Someone has to tell them what to eat, obesity and the subsequent health consequences are the biggest health issues in this country.

I also want the government controlling companies who are putting known carcinogens and toxic preservatives into food.

No one from Texas has any right to tell other people they can handle their own diet properly.

8/22/11

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:
awm55:
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

First off, are you refferring to the University systems? (which I would agree) or primary schools? (In which the US has consistently lost ground to other countries : Japan and Finland for instance)

Also, better standards of living might be true in some aspects, but in terms of health US is not the top of the top. Many other nations in Europe and other progressives (health wise) have made much stricter bans on fast food chains for example as to what kind of shit they can put into their food. So, we would need good healthcare anyways. Just a side not, of course the US's healthcare will be the best. When you have to pay through the nose for anything, it will likely be better

I was referring primarily to University, yes.

The US may not be great for general access to healthcare, but sweet Jesus I would take the US system any day over what they have in the UK.

And with regards to general quality of life, I think large European cities are nicer than American cities, however, the suburban neighborhoods in the US are WAY nicer than anything in the UK. The housing is better quality and more updated, the neighborhoods are greener, the properties are larger, the housing is far less dense, etc. And you get far more for your money.

In reply to txjustin
8/22/11
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

In reply to awm55
8/22/11
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

In reply to awm55
8/22/11
awm55:
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
awm55:
TheKing:

America is the greatest country on the face of the Earth. This is not a subjective statement, this is objective truth.

I hate relativism and think it's disgusting when American citizens speak about America as though it were just another place to live. It's so fucking easy to take for granted what we have here, or to sit back and think "man, it'd be nice to have siestas and month-long vacations in the summer like they do in Europe," but that attitude is fucking bullshit. Europe is falling apart, has high-as-fuck taxes, and has big brother USA fight the war on terror and protect their asses for them. Virtually every major innovation and company of note is from the US. Our education system, despite its flaws, is the best in the world - No one is touching our research universities. "But, but...IIT is amazing, so is Oxford." Shut the fuck up.

People go on their fucking study-abroad program or spend a week in europe with friends while on vacation from work and lose sight of what the rest of the world is REALLY like relative to the US.

Note, I am not saying that it isn't important to take in other cultures, nor am I saying that other countries are objectively shit, or that we don't have flaws in America (we do,) but I am saying that this is the fucking greatest country on Earth, period.

I have lived abroad and can say without a shadow of a doubt the US has the best quality of life for the middle class of any country I have visited. The UK middle class is living a solid 15 years behind us. However, the quality of life at the top is similar, and the quality of life at the bottom in the US is much worse on average.

After experiencing the UK education system vs. the US education system the US wins by a landslide, absolutely no comparison there. The UK really lacks resources on that front. The US also has the best healthcare by far (if you can afford it).

Europe is great if you are going to live in their cities, or are earning big bucks working in finance allowing you to afford a very stereotypical European lifestyle (which doesn't come cheap). At least in London its a safe bet that if you are walking through a nice neighborhood its going to be expensive, I think if an American saw how a middle class person in London lived they might not want to move there...

First off, are you refferring to the University systems? (which I would agree) or primary schools? (In which the US has consistently lost ground to other countries : Japan and Finland for instance)

Also, better standards of living might be true in some aspects, but in terms of health US is not the top of the top. Many other nations in Europe and other progressives (health wise) have made much stricter bans on fast food chains for example as to what kind of shit they can put into their food. So, we would need good healthcare anyways. Just a side not, of course the US's healthcare will be the best. When you have to pay through the nose for anything, it will likely be better

We don't want some government czar telling us what we can/can't eat. Not sure if you're trying to speak positively about that or not...

This is why I can't take you seriously, we are the fattest country on earth and obviously the fat fucks in this country can't control themselves. Someone has to tell them what to eat, obesity and the subsequent health consequences are the biggest health issues in this country.

I also want the government controlling companies who are putting known carcinogens and toxic preservatives into food.

No one from Texas has any right to tell other people they can handle their own diet properly.

The main concern I have for regulation, is because of the demographic whom mainly consumes these fatty unhealthy foods. Low income families. They cannot afford health insurance if they can't afford good food. Many inner cities do not have real produce of fresh meat or anything. It is getting better, but it is still very bad in many areas still.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to WestCoastDeveloper
8/22/11
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

I just had some sweet n low with my coffee. In large doses it is proven to be fatal in rats. Guess it needs to be better regulated. Haha, just fucking kidding.

You said everything I was thinking, well done.

In reply to WestCoastDeveloper
8/22/11
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

How about people watching their salt intake? You can generally figure out which foods are full of fat, not so easy to determine how much salt is used.

And the FDA has banned hundreds of food additives that are toxic to the liver. Instead of railing against the government and repeating your ridiculous talking points, fucking look it up

In reply to WestCoastDeveloper
8/22/11
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

Partially hydrogenated soybean oil, palm kernel oil, high fructose corn syrup. Most people have no fucking idea what this is, and it is essentially poison. Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make. And I'm not sure what the FDA has to do with it?

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to awm55
8/22/11
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

They already regulate the shit out of food companies/restaurants.

It all comes down to personal responsibility.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

Partially hydrogenated soybean oil, palm kernel oil, high fructose corn syrup. Most people have no fucking idea what this is, and it is essentially poison. Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make. And I'm not sure what the FDA has to do with it?

Spare me the bullshit. It is cheaper to prepare your own meals.

In reply to txjustin
8/22/11
txjustin:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

They already regulate the shit out of food companies/restaurants.

It all comes down to personal responsibility.

They don't regulate restaurants? Being clean and having "edible" food is completely different from serving people a burger with 2 days recommended dose of saturated fat. Unless I'm completely over looking something. I mean even other fast food chains are recognizing and attacking eachother because of the shit the others serve (Subway, Wendy's for example)

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to txjustin
8/22/11
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

Partially hydrogenated soybean oil, palm kernel oil, high fructose corn syrup. Most people have no fucking idea what this is, and it is essentially poison. Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make. And I'm not sure what the FDA has to do with it?

Spare me the bullshit. It is cheaper to prepare your own meals.

?? I still don't understand. When you're substitute brand bread had corn syrup as second ingredient, meat is full of nitrates and phosphates, it doesn't matter what you make yourself.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

Partially hydrogenated soybean oil, palm kernel oil, high fructose corn syrup. Most people have no fucking idea what this is, and it is essentially poison. Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make. And I'm not sure what the FDA has to do with it?

Spare me the bullshit. It is cheaper to prepare your own meals.

?? I still don't understand. When you're substitute brand bread had corn syrup as second ingredient, meat is full of nitrates and phosphates, it doesn't matter what you make yourself.

I think the problem is most people have no idea what is healthy for them, chances are their diet is abysmal even when they think it is healthy.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

Partially hydrogenated soybean oil, palm kernel oil, high fructose corn syrup. Most people have no fucking idea what this is, and it is essentially poison. Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make. And I'm not sure what the FDA has to do with it?

Spare me the bullshit. It is cheaper to prepare your own meals.

?? I still don't understand. When you're substitute brand bread had corn syrup as second ingredient, meat is full of nitrates and phosphates, it doesn't matter what you make yourself.

You said, "Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make." That's why I said what i said. Maybe I misunderstood you..

8/22/11

Please, if you can't agree with me on other things, agree with me on this stuff. My father lectures me all the time on health. I come from a what you would call "granola" family. These days companies;
Cook milk so its "safe" and remove all nutrients and replace them with less absorbing man made viatmins.
Wheat is bleached and starched in the same way milk is.
Meat is pumped full of salty water and phosphates as a filler for taste and texture.
Corn is now one of the most predominant materials found in human hair fibers due to the amount of corn starch, high fructose and fructose corn syrup and other corn products we consume.
Frozen vegetables are flash frozen and essentially nutrientless.

I can go on,
but this is just a few.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to awm55
8/22/11
awm55:
streetwannabe:
txjustin:
streetwannabe:
Nobama88:
awm55:
txjustin:

So you want the government to tell you what to eat?

I think I want them to control what companies put into food if it is known to be toxic for your health. Some preservatives are carcinogenic for example. And I also think that the government should force restaurants to show nutrition facts for their meals.

Jesus fucking Christ. What company is putting poisons into your food that is proven to kill you? I think there will be some people from the FDA who would love to speak to you. And no, something eaten over a period of years in extremely high doses that some yahoo.com study came out with that they think may or may not cause harm to you but it cant be proven DOES NOT FUCKING COUNT.

Also, please point me to where it shows that putting nutritional facts on your meals does anything at all to stop someone from eating something? Thats right, you cant because OBESE PEOPLE DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT THE NUTRITIONAL LABEL SAYS! THEY ARE STILL GOING TO EAT IT.

Partially hydrogenated soybean oil, palm kernel oil, high fructose corn syrup. Most people have no fucking idea what this is, and it is essentially poison. Many obese people in America (not all) consume what they can afford and these shit products are the cheapest because they are so easy to make. And I'm not sure what the FDA has to do with it?

Spare me the bullshit. It is cheaper to prepare your own meals.

?? I still don't understand. When you're substitute brand bread had corn syrup as second ingredient, meat is full of nitrates and phosphates, it doesn't matter what you make yourself.

I think the problem is most people have no idea what is healthy for them, chances are their diet is abysmal even when they think it is healthy.

That is actually a very good point and I agree. We have a generational problem with most things we are facing today. (i.e. SS, Medicaid, Medicare, etc.) It is going to take generations to get out of it. These things need to be taught at a young age.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:

Please, if you can't agree with me on other things, agree with me on this stuff. My father lectures me all the time on health. I come from a what you would call "granola" family. These days companies;
Cook milk so its "safe" and remove all nutrients and replace them with less absorbing man made viatmins.
Wheat is bleached and starched in the same way milk is.
Meat is pumped full of salty water and phosphates as a filler for taste and texture.
Corn is now one of the most predominant materials found in human hair fibers due to the amount of corn starch, high fructose and fructose corn syrup and other corn products we consume.
Frozen vegetables are flash frozen and essentially nutrientless.

I can go on,
but this is just a few.

A few of the things you posted are because of regulation.

Also, the meat I buy is not as you said. You have to buy good meat, which I do.

In reply to streetwannabe
8/22/11
streetwannabe:

Please, if you can't agree with me on other things, agree with me on this stuff. My father lectures me all the time on health. I come from a what you would call "granola" family. These days companies;
Cook milk so its "safe" and remove all nutrients and replace them with less absorbing man made viatmins.
Wheat is bleached and starched in the same way milk is.
Meat is pumped full of salty water and phosphates as a filler for taste and texture.
Corn is now one of the most predominant materials found in human hair fibers due to the amount of corn starch, high fructose and fructose corn syrup and other corn products we consume.
Frozen vegetables are flash frozen and essentially nutrientless.

I can go on,
but this is just a few.

Really, thanks for looking out for me bro. But I think that when I order my Double Six Dollar Burger with Bacon and Cheese I am well aware that the shit aint good for me.

Also, your whole vegan theory your throwing up here.. really its fascinating, I mean I wish we all could hop on over to the local farmers market and eat as you do. But sorry we dont all have $20 a pound to spend on 'locally raised' chicken. Hell, while we are at it lets go totally organic.. get rid of Monsanto and crap. I dont want their poison. Forget what it does the world food supply. lol.
----

I agree that we need regulation, but there is a line. There is something in this country called freedom of choice and regulating me from eating my double six dollar burger or bringing the price of my burger from $4 to $8 isnt the way to go.

In reply to WestCoastDeveloper
8/22/11
Nobama88:
streetwannabe:

Please, if you can't agree with me on other things, agree with me on this stuff. My father lectures me all the time on health. I come from a what you would call "granola" family. These days companies;
Cook milk so its "safe" and remove all nutrients and replace them with less absorbing man made viatmins.
Wheat is bleached and starched in the same way milk is.
Meat is pumped full of salty water and phosphates as a filler for taste and texture.
Corn is now one of the most predominant materials found in human hair fibers due to the amount of corn starch, high fructose and fructose corn syrup and other corn products we consume.
Frozen vegetables are flash frozen and essentially nutrientless.

I can go on,
but this is just a few.

Really, thanks for looking out for me bro. But I think that when I order my Double Six Dollar Burger with Bacon and Cheese I am well aware that the shit aint good for me.

Also, your whole vegan theory your throwing up here.. really its fascinating, I mean I wish we all could hop on over to the local farmers market and eat as you do. But sorry we dont all have $20 a pound to spend on 'locally raised' chicken.

That is the point, most people eat shitty food because its all they can afford. They need to be told what is good for them and what isn't. There are mothers out there that think white pasta with cheese is a healthy meal.

8/22/11

txjustin:
I am aware of milk regulation and such. But most people don't even acknowledge that for example, whole milk is better because its less processed. Most think "Hey, less fat = good".

And Nobama:
What are you talking about? Vegan is eating nothing that has come from an animal (meat, poultry, chicken, dairy etc). And you don't have to spend that much to be healthy. I am also saying that while most people acknowledge said burgers are unhealthy, most do not consider actually HOW unhealthy it is for them. People don't consider that processed food, even if it has more fat or sugar or whatever, it is better than diet, low fat, non fat, sugar free, and all this bs which people actually believe to be better.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

In reply to awm55
8/22/11
awm55:
Nobama88:
streetwannabe:

Please, if you can't agree with me on other things, agree with me on this stuff. My father lectures me all the time on health. I come from a what you would call "granola" family. These days companies;
Cook milk so its "safe" and remove all nutrients and replace them with less absorbing man made viatmins.
Wheat is bleached and starched in the same way milk is.
Meat is pumped full of salty water and phosphates as a filler for taste and texture.
Corn is now one of the most predominant materials found in human hair fibers due to the amount of corn starch, high fructose and fructose corn syrup and other corn products we consume.
Frozen vegetables are flash frozen and essentially nutrientless.

I can go on,
but this is just a few.

Really, thanks for looking out for me bro. But I think that when I order my Double Six Dollar Burger with Bacon and Cheese I am well aware that the shit aint good for me.

Also, your whole vegan theory your throwing up here.. really its fascinating, I mean I wish we all could hop on over to the local farmers market and eat as you do. But sorry we dont all have $20 a pound to spend on 'locally raised' chicken.

That is the point, most people eat shitty food because its all they can afford. They need to be told what is good for them and what isn't. There are mothers out there that think white pasta with cheese is a healthy meal.

Wow... there are NUTRITIONAL LABELS on all foods. I am sorry that they dont read them and refuse to educate themselves, but what else can you do? Shit, I guess we should just have the govt prepare and deliver our meals for us, that way we can be sure we are eating what you deem as healthy.