I’m considering working over in Asia. Was curious where are the best places to live and what was your experience like their. Day to day what are the hours some time things to do, and what are somethings to know about the culture and people over there. From Hong Kong, Singapore and anywhere else that you stayed. Also what was your career progression like over there from the banks to hedge funds. What were your comps like? Anything will help.
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From parties and living standpoint, Shanghai is awesome. If you don't want to deal with the locals, you can cuz there are a ton of Americans and Brits there.
Agree but Shanghai is less accessible than HK or Singapore due to stricter language requirements. Native bilingual is a must especially for investment front office roles, even more so for FO banking. Hong Kong is like this as well unless the fund has a global or pan-Asia mandate.
On interviewing with HFs, I’ve been passed over in HK due to not being a “native” Mandarin speaker, directly from the words of the headhunter, and I speak near perfect mandarin while lacking in writing skills. I’d imagine it’s even more so the case in Shanghai. Unless it’s a more senior sector specialist role that can not be filled from the pool of mainly generalists with pure finance/Econ backgrounds, natives with a western masters degree will have the advantage.
Though, Client facing roles are more flexible as more international money seek for active management in the slowly opening up of China’s onshore, RMB denominated A-shares. No specification on what finance role was made in original post so I decided to make a comment on this as well.
Lifestyle-wise, Shanghai is a better city to live in in comparison to Singapore and HK in my opinion, just given it’s sheer size and accessibility to other parts of China. The downsides are the the great firewall of China and stricter language requirements. Hard to make the comparison to Singapore as I’m less familiar with the area having not lived their previously.
Yes, the overall hedge fund industry is relatively early-mid cycle in Asia compared to US/EU, also less passive ETF money as well. Two factors for more alpha extraction in my view. AUM tends to run lower for an Asian HF due to liquidity restraints as well. 500mn USD is a fairly large book for a single region.
Platforms with HK presence and language requirements will depend on the exact PMs strategy. If the team runs a pan Asia equity long short then there is less emphasis on language, but remember any non-English language fluency is a plus because almost everyone who applies will have it.
For the fund I was passed over on, the mandate strangely was global but the founder, who had extensive western hedge fund experience, still demanded native Chinese fluency and the main day to day language was more mandarin then English. I imagine that the majority of the book was still China-centric despite the global mandate. Think of it from the point of view of seeders and investors. Most are looking for regional exposure and alpha. Global mandates are more true for macro and industry specific strategies.
It’s hard to differentiate between local and non-local hfs without further clarification. Do we look at place of origination or investor base or investment strategy or main language used in day to day? For me, I look at investor base (background of HNW and/or US/Eu institutional allocators) and investment strategy with US/EU pedigree). Most of the funds that are popping up and have done well have been non-US funds in terms of origination but with Us/EU institutional funding and US/EU pedigrees. Local - local funds (local investors, local pedigree, non- US/EU training), where the main language spoken is non-English, I haven’t considered because of bad fit. These funds will definitely screen for language proficiency first.
Look around and see what funds style fits your experience and skillset. In general, as long as this career is what you really want, then I’m sure there is a fund out there for you. There are a few threads on Asian hedge funds on WSO or a simple search on google will get you started.
HK - equities/credit hub, north-Asia focussed, Peter Pan syndrome and never sleeps. The intensity can sorta drag after a few years when you realise you’ve turned into a snobby alcoholic.
Singapore - macro hub, south east Asia focussed, more of a local town sorta vibe. Everything is immensely convenient but more like a shopping centre than a city.
You’ll make money both places, probably spend more on Hong Kong as it’s a flashier city - singles paradise. You would raise a family in Singapore.
In terms of upside, either make for a good place, hedge funds I’ve found in Hong Kong are more like family offices and punt on random stuff. Singapore guys are more institutional.
Bottom line - better stories in Hong Kong, better lifestyle in Singapore.
YMMV, just my own observations.
Lived in HK over a decade, Beijing earlier in life and and have traveled a lot for work and pleasure in other parts of Asia. If you want to be in finance, stick to Hong Kong and Singapore. Tokyo may be an option for certain trading desks.
All three are very expensive generally, and the former two are pretty tax advantageous, especially at more junior levels. Assuming OP is a US citizen, the first $120k or so is not taxed by Uncle Sam and housing allowance is a similar amount, so try to maximize that.
I generally agree with setarcos on the characterizations of Singapore and Hong Kong (aside from the funds part). Singapore has come a long way in the last decade for stuff to do etc, but it has a very shopping center like feel and is kind of like the Truman Show. That said the local food is cheap, clean and delicious and its far more ethnically diverse than most of Asia. And it's relatively well integrated.
Hong Kong is definitely grittier, more dirty but more of a real city with incredible character, a spirited local population and history as well as great outdoors (lots of hiking, beaches etc). Better to be single there, though as an older guy, that scene gets boring especially if one is used to a more global place with diversity (ethnically and professionally).
I cannot speak for the Singapore scene, but in HK unless you are local or make a random wide group of friends, your social circle will be expats, western born/raised Chinese/Local HK'ers and most of them will be in finance, law, consulting or something supporting the former three. In other words, it's a lot of the same kind of people and unless you love that, it gets boring. Both cities are also incredibly transient so you may be making new sets of friends every one-three years.
Finally the best for last... On funds. I think both cities in general are places where most shops are run like punters outfits. It's what a number of institutions look for when in Asia. Growth, vibrancy, volatility, the prospect of economic development and high returns, opacity, government involvement etc. Asia may be in an earlier cycle than hedge funds, but I cannot say that the market has really developed that much for a long time. It is still insider and government driven and typically against foreigners. That's just how it is. As a result of all of this, in general, the number of disciplined traders/investors or technically proficient ones is small. It's a lot more of smart, but very well connected and/or rich people punting around. And this is across both the buy and sell side, and across asset classes. HK has a reputation for having the local families and increasingly Mainland Chinese families punting about, but the Indians, Indonesians and Straits Chinese families in Singapore can punt just as well ;)
Final warning - if you go to Asia, be ready to get stuck there. Asia experience is nowhere near as well valued back in the US/London or big financial centers. It can be very tough to find a good job when you move back unless your company moves you back and/or you have a very strong network. You may get more responsibility but you miss out on bigger, most sophisticated markets with nuances in the developed world. And the developed world is far more parochial than it would like to admit. I had a ball in Asia though and would not trade it for the world.
Any other questions, do post or PM me.
Good Luck