I’m considering moving to London. My team is a US natural gas pod and I plan on sticking to US gas trading, so will have to work US hours. How much does this suck for my social life? Will this be hard to manage 10 years down the line with kids? My comp will stay the same, but how likely is it for me to expect a decrease if I get fired/decide to leave and work for another pod shop but from London?
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Working US hours while based in London presents a unique set of challenges and considerations, especially when it comes to balancing your professional and personal life. Here's what you need to know:
Impact on Social Life: Working US hours in London means your workday will shift to later in the day and extend into the night, which can significantly impact your social life. Most social activities and gatherings happen in the evening, so you might find it challenging to join friends or attend events. However, this could also offer a unique advantage, as you'll have your mornings free, allowing for activities that fit this unusual schedule.
Long-term Considerations with Family: As you mentioned the 10-year timeline, considering family life is crucial. Working late hours might make it challenging to spend quality time with your children, especially during their school days, as your schedules will largely be opposite. However, it could also mean you're available for them in the mornings, potentially for school runs or morning activities. It's about finding the right balance and possibly seeking flexible childcare solutions.
Career and Compensation Concerns: Staying in the same role with the same compensation might work initially, but there's always a risk when considering job security and potential moves. If you were to be let go or decide to leave for another opportunity, finding a similar role that allows you to work US hours from London might be challenging. The financial sector in London is competitive, and while there are opportunities, the specific niche of US natural gas trading might limit your options. Additionally, compensation could indeed vary depending on the demand for your expertise and the availability of similar roles.
In summary, while working US hours from London can offer a unique professional opportunity, it's essential to weigh the impact on your social life and family considerations. Career-wise, maintaining your current compensation level is plausible, but future job changes could introduce uncertainty regarding compensation and role availability. It's about balancing the immediate benefits with the long-term implications of such a decision.
Sources: Working Abroad - Regrets/Benefits, Work/Life Balance - Hours, One day to decide: US or UK?, Q&A: I Work at Strategy&. Consulting, London Investment Banking Culture/Hours
I’m not much of a morning person, so I actually prefer US hours working in London, but YMMV. I tend to work something like: 10am- 8pm +- 1-2 hours on either end depending on what’s going on. The rates market is usually pretty quiet after 6pm London or so anyway.
If you’re still on a discretionary bonus, and going to go work anywhere other than Citadel, I’d expect a bit of a haircut in comp if you leave your pod. Obviously if you’re on a formulaic payout, the % is the same regardless.
How is citadel different/what have you heard? And any numbers with citadel?
Nothing scientific, but when I interviewed with Citadel pods before I was put on a formulaic payout, they would offer expected total comp in line with what I would see from NY roles at the same level of experience, but other funds would be discounted 30% or so. I think this depends on whether you're benchmarked to London S&T or other funds as a comparison. Could also be idiosyncratic for the roles I recruited for, but I had a decent sample size (Citadel, MLP, BH, BC, Baly, etc.).
That’s helpful. I come from equities side and actually have never met someone in macro, so not really sure if there’s a big difference in comp - but sounds like you have a carve-out - can you share what book size / % payout / any guaranteed comp at the (sounds like senior analyst?) analyst level is there?
Perfect thanks a lot!
The poster above does a good job of encapsulating the hours / trade-offs. I too - like most in London - work in macro products. The best way I can describe the NY vs. London hours is that hours in NY is akin to waking up each morning in the midst of a battle - you wake up at 6am and have to figure out what happened in Asia / Europe while you were asleep and try to parse out P+L, market implications, et al... However, you are absolutely free from 4pm-6pm (all markets closed and absolutely no concerns) and typically free until 9pm or later. London hours are more of a gentlemanly affair for most as mentioned above ... often the party doesn't really get going until 10am or so, but you aren't really free from markets until you get the NY 4pm-6pm window (9pm-11pm Ldn). I have an odd set-up where I am the London-based person who works for a US-based team so I am actually on the hook to work closer to more like NY-style hours - most important for me to actually be plugged in from 7:30am - 11:30am when rest of team is asleep and then after I can manage myself however I see fit. That said, I manage a meaningful amount of capital and do trade US products so I have to be semi-plugged in for the rest of the US hours as well for my own stuff.
In terms of compensation / rest of considerations, at my firm the salary is same for PMs in $ terms in both London and NY and bulk of pay is performance-based - I have no clue how it works for more junior people, especially on the non-macro side. In terms of social life, I am in my late 30s, married without children, and do not drink much during the week as I am always too stressed about markets, so my biggest priority is to be able to go to dinner with my wife (and friends, though they are mostly hers at this point) and that is easy enough (8pm dinner, no problem at all). If I were younger, I would hate NY-based hours probably as it means you would miss prime pub hours (6pm-9pm). The other considerations you didn't mention are the fun travel aspects - in the winter, you are skiing in the Alps and, in the summer, you are hanging on islands in the Mediterranean.
Edit: If you are working for a US-based pod in a London office, you will probably get along well with the London office people (assuming its not a strictly siloed shop) as they will be eager to get perspective on what US people are thinking and what is happening in the US office. If you end up wanting to stay at the shop but work closer to London hours, I wouldnt be surprised if you can make a switch to working for a London pod trading European products in a few years.
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