VP Lifestyle at Top BB Coverage Groups
Hey all
Ignore WSO title, currently a VP1 at a well respected global full service MM platform (WF/RBC/TD type). I’m at a second / third tier coverage group at the firm. Great lifestyle with street comp. Work like 55 hours a week and we barely do any M&A so deal sprints are pretty manageable.
Have an offer from JPM/GS/MS, same coverage. This is one of the firm’s top groups (GS TMT, JPM HC, etc).
6 years ago I would have taken this without a thought but now I am struggling a bit. I have a great lifestyle at my current group, trust from seniors and the bullpen, have started building up a client book.
Any perspectives would be appreciated. I plan to stay in banking for the long haul.
What are you solving for? Are you trying to become an MD long-term? Comp? prestige?
Long-term earnings--yes plan to try for MD and stay in banking until I retire.
Prestige is only important to me to the extent it extends my career / gives me exit optionality in case things don't work out.
bump
Very tough decision. Longevity matters and getting grounded hurts longevity.
100%. If the opportunity hadn't been at one of the top coverage groups for my industry I wouldn't have even applied / considered it.
What I am trying to understand is the hit to WLB I will take vs. the longer term career advantages. I've never worked at a top group so it's hard for me to gauge the typical environment at the mid-level.
Based on my conversations, it sounds like it could be a very meaningful hit to WLB. Don't think it's uncommon for bad weeks to be past midnight for VPs. Obviously not all weeks are like that, but it'll be more heavy M&A so they'll happen. I think it's probably safe to say even good weeks probably aren't 55 hours at the top groups for these banks.
Based on my experience, it seems like VP is one of the toughest positions in banking (and PE). Lots of responsibility, not a ton of autonomy/control. Managing juniors, getting managed by seniors.
It’s not an easy call. Leaving aside work life balance (which I consider an irrelevance for the soft and weak), let’s focus on the merits and the risks,
Being in a top group in your sector gives you more upside over time. The fact that will do a lot of M&A means you have the ability to get paid a lot more over time. But you have to perform and do so in a manner that gets you credit. Otherwise you’re out on your ass. Do you back yourself to perform when you’ve never done M&A and when you don’t have any internal relationships? Can you play the politics vs those at your level who grew up there?
Your current seat is easy. You’ll make MD. You’ll get paid pretty well but it won’t have the same upside.
Only you can answer these questions,
I was going to say that your family probably cares about WLB, but I’m sure they don’t care about you anymore, so…
I'm (maybe undeservedly) confident in my ability to get up to speed. I worked in a more middle-market focused M&A group before this--not the top group/firm in the world but I got my M&A reps, albeit in the MM--and I've always been a fast learner.
My current thinking is that I can always go to GS TMT and wash out to WF/Lincoln/other MM shop, so there is some structural career protection from getting the better brand name. Whereas from my current shop there's a much less desirable rung to fall to.
Currently leaning towards taking the offer, thanks for your perspective. Ironically, I have a young kid and that's made me want to lock in career-wise more than before I had her. Know some folks swing the other way.
lol work life balance is soft and weak? im sorry your family and friends don't care whether you are there or not little guy.
VP at a top BB is still 60-80+ hours a week, but minimal pitching and almost 100% execution. If you're currently in a group with decent flow already then it's the same thing but you're never "off". If you're coming from a group that pitches a lot and does deals sometimes you're going to be in for a rude awakening. Really depends where you are in life and if you're willing to make the sacrifice. I will say a BB brand name will open 100x more doors if you decide IB isn't for you.
We're definitely pitch-heavy. Thanks for your perspective.
Take the top BB offer and let me know which bank / group you are leaving so I can take your spot.
If you want to do banking long-term would stay in current seat. Comp likely not any better and hours likely worse. If you’re not 100% sure, go BB it will open more doors.
I would stay in your current seat, that lifestyle is incredibly rare and you'll have to put in crazy high hours early on to prove yourself at your new spot. JPM HC I know has horrendous WLB, at least a couple years ago from a buddy who was an associate there (after doing a stint at a top MM HC group as an analyst).
Can confirm. Had a friend recently leave JPM HC and he was unbearably miserable there.
Bump
Probably would stay, but understand the pull. Grass isn’t always greener and if you got runway and support, wouldn’t discount that.
The biggest risk of staying is if you get canned/pushed out, not much room to move further downstream. If you are well-liked and there’s a clear path where you currently are, I’d stay. Those top tier banks WLB are horrendous and you’ll burn out.
This is what I'm most afraid of--have seen people who get pushed out typically go to Nomura type places. The lack of M&A experience makes it difficult to transition to one of the M&A focused MM platforms.
As a former VP, I’d say take a swing at it, but play the politics well on your resignation from your current firm as many groups would often take you back if it doesn’t work out.
Good advice
It's hard to leave a seat where you're settled in. Everything you've built in your current role is hard work and sounds like there is the trajectory.
That said, I would take the offer, get the brand / reps and decide. Who knows, maybe you'll like it. If not, you can always head back to lifestyle group with a top group on the resume.
Don’t underestimate the “What-if” factor later on in the career. You only get opportunities like this every so often…
lol classic analyst. Do you know the amount of people that burn out of IB? 99.9%. Surviving is very important.
Some perspectives.
If you're going to jump ship, why not to EB? They pay so much more and will give you the credibility you're looking for.
That said, I personally wouldnt walk away from a situation where you have goodwill and work 55 hours a week
Path to MD is much harder at an EB. Think EB has a lot of value at AN to ASO levels but VP+ it's quite difficult. Easy to get hardstuck at VP.
very true but pay is sooo sweet people don’t mind cruising for many years until they get the boot
If you don't do a lot of M&A currently but you have started building your own client book, I am sort of inferring your group does a ton of financing work?
If you're going to JPM where they lend I could imagine a world where you have a great path to MD by being the guy who gets the debt issued within your coverage area
I would expect the WLB to be bad, especially if they are hiring because theyre busy
I am at a top BB in a strong group. I originally started at a pitch-heavy group where VPs had life that seemed similar to yours. In my current group, VPs are sleep deprived and live at the office. I have been told by seniors that VPs work just as much as associate but with even more responsibility and stress. Also, don’t forget: very underwhelming pay unless you are the #1 performer. Guess what? None of the laterals we have will ever be the top VP in the group. All the top performers at VP/SVP/Dir level already have their senior sponsors in the group who tap them to do everything for them. All the laterals get stuck with the MDs who either could not get any of the former associates, now VPs to want to work with them long term or their opinion doesn’t matter so even if you crush it for them your best outcome is being rated mid bucket as a VP. On a long enough timeline a lateral VP can make MD and come out on top but it will not happen in the near or medium term for them
this is actually spot on. being a lateral is difficult everywhere
This is 100% true. GS / MS in particular have very specific cultures and really value homegrown VPs. As a lateral, you are likely being hired to fill a near-term staffing need (vs platform growth) and will be a utility player with no senior sponsor. It will be a grind for mid-bucket BB pay while working on lower quality staffings w/ weak jr resources and will take years to build support / mentorship
Unless you are from barclays and lateral to ubs. Then you will get top bucket.
Spot on and there is real danger laterals will get screwed in layoffs in such situations unless they have had couple of years in the team to build rapport with seniors who matter.
If you are interested in taking the role (and presumably there’s some interest if you applied and went through the interview process to get it) I would view it as fairly low risk.
With that experience, you can always go back to what you were doing before and re-optimize for WLB, possibly at a higher level.
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