Accidentally cried in front of HR as an SA. What now?
I've been quite stressed this summer, partially because I've been making more mistakes than I'd like and partially because the AN1 that I interact most with and I don't have the best relationship. I wouldn't say he is abusive or anything, but it definitely comes across as hostile sometimes. Most likely related to the me making mistakes thing.
I had my midsummer check-in today. Feedback was almost all positive, but one evaluator apparently used some quite harsh language in my development section. This was weighing on my mind for the rest of the check-in, and when the HR guy asked how I was finding my team I kind of just broke down. I wasn't fully sobbing or anything but my voice was definitely very wobbly and I had tears in my eyes. I lied and said that it's been great etc., and the guy asked me if I was sure but I doubled down.
The last thing I wanted to do is make a big deal out of it and have that be what sabotages my return offer. But am I screwed anyway? I don't know what to do or how to proceed.
ETA: am a guy
if you're a girl, don't worry about it. you'll just probably get someone fired
if you're a guy, find a new bank
edit: that's a lot of monkey shit in such a short time, i hope i didnt make you guys cry
A
Get back to reality. The original comments is true and we all know that. Why do you want to work in IB if you are a crybaby as soon as it isn´t the perfect dream world ?
He’s not even wrong tho…
Lol he's right though?
Learn by your mistakes and make sure you don't do them twice.
People being cold / passive-aggressive is very common, this is something that is part of the industry and you will see it everywhere. Keep reminding yourself that it is not personal.
Most likely, this Analyst is forced to work / teach you. If you keep doing mistakes, his / her work will literally double (first by teaching you and then by double-checking every single stuff you have done), and this will mean that he / she probs will have to stay in later which will piss him / her off. The best thing, is just to try your best, don't repeat mistakes, learn quickly and put in the work.
Lastly, HR is never your friend. Frankly, they don't really care about you, they just want everyone to be happy and most HR, not saying all, couldn't give a shit about interest. You crying, probably means more work for the HR, which isn't great.
This. HR is NOT your friend. Had a chat with HR at the end of my internship where they asked about my experience. I tell the HR lady everything was great etc. She then asks me if there is anything that they could improve. I tell her that I sometimes felt it was difficult for me to fit in at social events because I didn't speak the local language (I was doing an internship in continental Europe but only speak English) but that it was fully normal and not a big issue. She then became visibly annoyed and started heavily questioning my comment, saying that she did not agree with it at all. Guess it's not very nice to hear that there are any points of improvement when you live in your little HR propaganda bubble where everything about the firm is amazing.
HR will never be looking out to help you. They have 2 functions. They are the propaganda division of the bank, sending out the message that everyone is super happy with every aspect of their work. They also have the function of making your life difficult by requiring you to fill out various bullshit forms on a regular basis. The only time HR will ever be helpful to you is if you are a woman that has been harassed in some way. Not because they care, but because they are horrified of the bad press if word gets out and this would also make it more difficult to fill their quotas of women. In any other case, they will be completely useless. This has been the case at literally every place I've been at.
Regardless of your gender, if you want to stay in this business, you have to master the art of LETTING GO. Not everything is worth squeezing your brain over. You are a SA, you are expected to make mistakes, you are expected to be scared in situations when don’t go your way and learn from them. Please do not make a big deal out of it.
However, take a nice long walk and do think about the following.
Thanks, this is helpful to reset my perspective a bit. I do understand why the analyst might be frustrated or annoyed (especially as it pertains to having to double check my work) but I’ve honestly never made the same mistake twice.
I think it is particularly rough when he says stuff like “you’ll never succeed in banking if you don’t know this stuff” referring to firm specific formatting stuff that I was never taught.
But I agree that I take things too personally overall. It’s just difficult when the stakes are this high I guess - it feels like everything I’ve worked for is on the line this summer so every little slip up makes me worry a lot. But I think that if I worry less that will let me focus more, and improve my end product.
One other thing...learning how to digest negative feedback is a skill that many people hone throughout their career. It's weird because most students in school/uni don't get much negative feedback from instructors or teachers. If you played a sport, maybe you have had more exposure to negative feedback. Regardless, when someone gives me negative feedback I always do a couple things i) ask for specific times when I did/didn't do the thing in question and ii) ask if anyone on the team is particularly good with that skill. You have to take ownership of the narrative, your boss or HR is telling you this so you can fix it (and they believe in your growth and potential...otherwise they wouldn't bother telling you or continuing to give you challenging work). You can also frame it as a question for your manager or a mentor and ask them how they respond to negative feedback or maybe even have them share a time when they got negative feedback. No one wants you to fail and if they do, they need to reassess their life and stop taking shit out on an intern. You got this!
Most of the time, gripping the bat too hard makes it easier to strike out.
Speaking from personal experience. Make it a mantra to loosen your grip and bit and let it rip!
Btw the “you’ll never succeed if you don’t know this stuff” put in the context of formatting is said just to stress the importance of something that seems unimportant
Don't worry about that in front of HR. I don't see the how any crying creates more work for HR. I'd disregard the comment that suggests men should find a new bank after crying - that's quite naive.
I've been through quite a few rounds of interns, as well as Analyst and Associate review committes. The decision on your return offer will likely be down mostly to (A) your SA project (if you have one), and (B) your team reviews. HR are there more as mechanism by which bankers decide who to allocate offers to rather than decision-makers in themselves.
I think one useful thing to do would be to ask specifically what the "harsh words" related to, to try to understand how to correct it. If it's bothering you, reach out to HR, apologise and say you thought it was unprofessional or something, and you wanted to ask a few clarifications on your review.
Second, I'd go around your team and ask for 5 minutes for "informal feedback". This comes across well as being self-aware and wanting to improve. You can use the opportunity to explain how much you're enjoying the experience, etc. In particular, with the Analyst, make a real effort to say that you're conscious of the mistakes but want to demonstrate how you can take feedback on board and improve over the internship. Then, do it - as another commenter put it, don't repeat mistakes. It's not acceptable to refuse to extend an offer on the basis of crying, but it is for repeatedly making mistakes.
I hear a lot about not repeating mistakes, but what actually counts as repeating a mistake? Like if you make a typo in the first turn of one deck and then a different typo later in another, does that count as a repeat? Or say using the wrong red in one deck and then using the wrong blue in another deck a few weeks later? These just sound like almost inevitable to happen over a long enough period of time.
Fair question and it really refers not to typos as a general point, but specific repeated mistakes. Suppose a company has changed its logo and you don't update it in deck A, and your MD corrects you. But then you use the old logo again in deck B next week.
Alternatively, say you're building a model and maybe forget a line item repeatedly. Or maybe you repeatedly don't match the market cap which is written in the Executive Summary with the market cap listed in a deck later in a cap structure summary.
It's a bit of a grey area to be honest, depending on how specific you want to make it. If you make a typo in week 1 on Topic A and then a typo in week 2 on Topic B, that's fine. If you mis-spell the client's name 3 times in the same week that's when it becomes tricky.
Bunch of analysts in this thread pretending they never cried on the job before - had more than a few emails that made me tear up a little bit in my 2 years. In the future just try to hold it in around people and go to the bathroom or something.
This job is super draining and taxing and the lack of sleep makes it way harder to control emotjons
this is the best comment here
Listen, don't cry on the reg for a job -- let this stuff go. If it is making you cry often, this is not the job / team you want
I've cried once on the job in AM (though privately)...that one time alone made me strongly consider whether I wanted to work here or find another AM with a less c*un*y boss. Ultimately stuck it out here since I only see 1 more year of this crap before getting promoted, though this was also only because of the crappy macro we're in -- in a better macro, I would've left. Nothing, no job is worth your mental health and quality of life IMO. Hope you feel better bro
OP, this has happened to us all, the work is stressful and the environment can be hostile. It's totally ok. You'll eventually learn to grow thick skin and not give a shit. Until then, just pick up and move on. My 2 cents, if HR follows up, just brush it off as a bad day and pretend nothing happened.
if you've been on this forum long enough, you'll see most of the "tough guys" are just whiny little girls, so don't listen to half the suck it up you're weak find a different path morons here. Like half the posts these days are just young'uns bitching.
Definitely find a new bank, is probably the first thing, everyone will find out and you won't be taken seriously, specifically by the older people (the ones that matter). Most old people, myself included, don't really get this new age emotional stuff, especially as it relates to males.
The younger crowd has been brought up in more of a "everyone's feelings matter" environment, so probably won't see too much flak from your peers, but your peers are not the ones who will decide your career trajectory, the old people do.
Other than that, crying is fine, just don't do it in front of others, and with all due respect, this is probably not the best situation to get all emotional about, you're literally just making some mistakes as an analyst, as thousands before you have done the same. Key is to be emotionally even-keeled and self critical to find mistakes, their root causes, fix them and move on.
Agree with Trailmix8, above. Bosses can say harsh things. Clients can say very harsh things. One needs a thick skin in this industry and it is best acquired very early. No one wants to deal with a weepy team member, or worry about their emotional fragility in front of a client. At the very least do so privately. I am afraid HR likely did share you reaction with your team and it will cause some concern about walking on eggshells around you.
There’s no crying in baseball
The lack of empathy in this industry never fails to astound me. Most of the tough guys in banking would be the first to call the cops or lawyer up after a physical fight if it makes you feel any better.
part of it must be the anonymity of being online right? ppl are being openly vitriolic lol
Such is the nature of a public forum. However, I was referring to OP’s analyst who expects interns to understand the nuances of their bank-specific formatting. Same analyst probably went though the same thing and perpetuates the cycle. The short term memory (and thinking) in banking used to surprise me until I realized the kind of people that join are the type to chase another job from their first day, myself included.
not advice but
virtual hug. you are enough. you are doing great.
I'm also a male so pause and no homo but real talk dont cry again and keep your head up
Thx. :0
You are a guy - learn to be a man.
throw a tampon in and get over it
From an older person who has worked in finance for around 10 years.
- No point crying over spilt milk. Just forget about it, move on, and do your best for the rest of the internship. What happened has happened and you cannot change it.
- HR is irrelevant to the decision making process on an internship... if you can turn things around and do well for the rest of the internship, you have every chance of getting the return offer.
- You are probably blowing things out of proportion. 2 points - 1. Believe me that any senior person in the industry has seen many things, people crying, people shouting in rage, lots of firings... and many have probably done it themselves. An intern getting a bit teary is not a big deal. 2. Senior people or HR don't really care about you, how you feel, if you are crying.. they are not going to think that much about it.
Overall the best thing you can do is not worry about it and just move forward. Its probably fine.
Big woof.
Congratulations on crying over a lack of communication with how you felt to the AN1 and then proceeding to blame your failure to learn solely on him.
You're getting paid. So suck it up and take some initiative.
Someone's a feisty one.
Don't cry eh buddy
You know what your problem is? You ain't got the funk. Mhm? You're like a bread stick, you're all rigid. You ain't got no rhythm
Wait… the HR… GUY??? Obvious troll post
Grow a pair. Don’t do shit like that
I get it man, especially in this industry. It seems as if it is very important to be liked by everyone in the office, and everyone you meet in general. I guess my perspective is a bit different simply because I've been stalked by mountain lion. I also had to chase one off after a sleepless night that resulted in me almost suffocating in my tent. You tend to learn things as a person, especially when you're by yourself and there's no one around to give you praise or criticism for your effort. It's just you, and the mountain, and the life that exists in the moment. There is no support from the outside to give you credit for your effort, there is no promotion to work for or an empathetic conversation. The development and growth and comes from within, and the only way you know you did it right is if you survive the ordeal. "Should anything go wrong up there it will be a fight to the finish. If your training is good enough survival is there. If not, nature claims its forfeit." Dougal Haston on Denali.
It is ok to be upset, it is ok to be emotionally vulnerable, but do so for the right reason. Everyone will have an opinion about your efforts, what truly matters is the self reflection you take from it and understand why you act the way you do. If you're consistently making mistakes then it might be time to evaluate your mindful effort in the industry and see if it is truly holding your attention, and passion.
It's ok to cry, it is ok to be bothered, but you truly have to know your own worth regardless of the opinion of others. I understand these meetings and evaluations are important, but the reality is you'll never make everyone happy, and you'll never make everyone like you.
Be strong in yourself, and enjoy the BS because if you can talk shit back and keep it funny then you'll show you have tough skin and the ability to be witty and cunning. Make people laugh, and laugh at yourself, but never EVER lie to yourself about your abilities and character.
One of my best friends deleted the vf of a deck for a pitch the day before it went in front of clients, and her associate had to drive back to the office and fix it after he'd already left to go eat dinner with his wife. You can prob imagine how pissed he was.
She cried in the bathroom and called me, sobbing, but got the return offer anyways on a very competitive desk; moral of the story is that it's alright if you fuck up just get your shit together and don't do it again
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