Can't even get IB interviews.

Hey everyone, 

In 2020, I started studying for a Bachelor of Commerce  (finance major) and Laws at the university of Sydney. My ATAR was over 99.50

In Dec 2022, I graduated with a bachelor of Commerce and decided to not continue to finish up the Bachelor of laws. My overall WAM is 73%. This is heavily brought down because of my grades for my law units.

I have now been accepted to the INSEAD MIM program starting in August 2023 and I will be available for employment in June 2024. 

The issue is I have applied for several summer analyst positions for IB banks in Australia and I have not even gotten a single interview offer. I would really appreciate any feedback as I really feel my academic background should be strong enough to at least warrant an interview. 

Thank you!

 

A few things:

  • 73 is a low WAM if you're applying for summer IB positions and you've graduated with a single degree, especially if it is a Bachelor of Commerce. 80+ WAM for a single degree is the rule of thumb, 85+ to be safe. 
  • People that are currently in their penultimate year (i.e. graduating in 2024) will be prioritised over you, you're applying 2 years too late.
  • Your ATAR is good, but it won't move the needle too much when HR reviews your application. I got 99.75+ and know for a fact that the IBs I applied for cared a lot more about my WAM.
 

Thank you! Do you mean there is really no way to break into Australian IB firms for me then as my WAM is too low? I have had a lot of success with consulting firms especially outside of Australia so maybe those would be better options.

 
Most Helpful

Aus is an incredibly competitive and hard to break into market for IB - put simply, a 73 WAM just isn't enough. Having your marks brought down by you law units isn't really a valid excuse as you're competing against Comm/Law guys from USyd/UNSW who have 80+ WAMs overall for comm/law. 

Your ATAR doesn't have much bearing on your actual application beyond a boxticking exercise - it's basically just another way for the HR departments at some banks to cull the thousands of applications based on an arbitrary number - in essence, some HR departments will just reject most/all apps with ATARs below a certain cutoff. It's not really that relevant to the whole recruitment process beyond getting the initial interview, and now you're at the stage where you're doing a masters degree, I'd consider forgetting your ATAR entirely as it's a now broadly irrelevant number for you. 

Look I'll put it very bluntly. Your academic background is not strong enough to warrant an interview at all, particularly in the current market. You appear to have vastly overestimated your competitiveness and overall positioning on the academic ladder. A credit average in straight commerce is laughably inadequate for IB and your belief that it should be enough to at least warrant an interview exhibits a total misunderstanding of the way recruiting works. Your marks place you around the median for your cohort - only people in the top 10% are going to be getting interviews. 

Sydney IB SA classes are at most 10-15 people, and are composed of individuals who have far stronger academic credentials than you. The individuals in these SA classes will also all have relevant experience which you don't appear to have. To put it in perspective, back when I was going for SA roles I had a >80 WAM in Comm/Law, relevant experience, case comps, etc and I only managed to get 2 first round interviews - and that was in a much stronger market than today.

Australian IBs have very few pathways in outside of internships and grad recruiting. Masters degrees aren't really a common thing in the local finance scene and are generally seen as a signal of a failure to break in due to paltry undergraduate results, and even if they weren't seen as a sign of failure, you're doing the wrong degree as AFAIK the MIM isn't very finance-centric. From what I can see on Insead's website, the top recruiters for the MIM were all either industry or consultants with the exception of HSBC - that really tells you all you need to know right there.

Look, I know the above is a bit harsh, but I mainly want to help you avoid chasing your tail in circles trying to achieve a pipe dream. You've kind of blocked yourself off from IB now and at this stage the journey you'd have to undertake to get in would not be worth the effort (i.e. you'd be going from consulting into IB). My advice to you is to go into consulting if you've got the opportunity to do that. While many consultants are entirely useless, some are not - be one of them. 

Edit: For those of you seeking advice to help you break in in Aus that aren't OP, the advice I'd give you is to get the best marks you possibly could, get experience and do case comps. That is the tried and true, cookie cutter approach to breaking into IB, and I'd wager that 95% of all successful applicants fall within that mould. Unlike in the US, EU or UK, our best and brightest still tend to head towards IB (after prop firms) because we don't have as developed a tech industry/VC, so just keep in mind that your competition when recruiting for summer will be composed of 80+ WAM USyd Comm/Law hardos with IPP internships under their belts.

Also, don't go and do a masters straight after your undergrad if you fail to successfully recruit for IB - as I said above, it is a strong signal that you've failed to break in and are trying to decorate yourself with more prestige in an effort to start anew. Very very very few bankers in Australia have a Masters, because it's just not really a requirement for the job here. We have undergraduate business degrees, why would we need postgraduate degrees to regurgitate the same info? You should have a workable plan B - plan Z in the event plan A fails, none of which should be to go back to uni. While OP hasn't mentioned it in their post, I'd hazard a guess that the general lack of awareness that they had for the industry meant they didn't apply for Big4 CF or Insto, which is a huge mistake as both of these are feeders into IB at a slightly later stage. 

 

Analyst 1 in IB - DCM:

Aus is an incredibly competitive and hard to break into market for IB - put simply, a 73 WAM just isn't enough. Having your marks brought down by you law units isn't really a valid excuse as you're competing against Comm/Law guys from USyd/UNSW who have 80+ WAMs overall for comm/law. 

Your ATAR doesn't have much bearing on your actual application beyond a boxticking exercise - it's basically just another way for the HR departments at some banks to cull the thousands of applications based on an arbitrary number - in essence, some HR departments will just reject most/all apps with ATARs below a certain cutoff. It's not really that relevant to the whole recruitment process beyond getting the initial interview, and now you're at the stage where you're doing a masters degree, I'd consider forgetting your ATAR entirely as it's a now broadly irrelevant number for you. 

Look I'll put it very bluntly. Your academic background is not strong enough to warrant an interview at all, particularly in the current market. You appear to have vastly overestimated your competitiveness and overall positioning on the academic ladder. A credit average in straight commerce is laughably inadequate for IB and your belief that it should be enough to at least warrant an interview exhibits a total misunderstanding of the way recruiting works. Your marks place you around the median for your cohort - only people in the top 10% are going to be getting interviews. 

Sydney IB SA classes are at most 10-15 people, and are composed of individuals who have far stronger academic credentials than you. The individuals in these SA classes will also all have relevant experience which you don't appear to have. To put it in perspective, back when I was going for SA roles I had a >80 WAM in Comm/Law, relevant experience, case comps, etc and I only managed to get 2 first round interviews - and that was in a much stronger market than today.

Australian IBs have very few pathways in outside of internships and grad recruiting. Masters degrees aren't really a common thing in the local finance scene and are generally seen as a signal of a failure to break in due to paltry undergraduate results, and even if they weren't seen as a sign of failure, you're doing the wrong degree as AFAIK the MIM isn't very finance-centric. From what I can see on Insead's website, the top recruiters for the MIM were all either industry or consultants with the exception of HSBC - that really tells you all you need to know right there.

Look, I know the above is a bit harsh, but I mainly want to help you avoid chasing your tail in circles trying to achieve a pipe dream. You've kind of blocked yourself off from IB now and at this stage the journey you'd have to undertake to get in would not be worth the effort (i.e. you'd be going from consulting into IB). My advice to you is to go into consulting if you've got the opportunity to do that. While many consultants are entirely useless, some are not - be one of them. 

Edit: For those of you seeking advice to help you break in in Aus that aren't OP, the advice I'd give you is to get the best marks you possibly could, get experience and do case comps. That is the tried and true, cookie cutter approach to breaking into IB, and I'd wager that 95% of all successful applicants fall within that mould. Unlike in the US, EU or UK, our best and brightest still tend to head towards IB (after prop firms) because we don't have as developed a tech industry/VC, so just keep in mind that your competition when recruiting for summer will be composed of 80+ WAM USyd Comm/Law hardos with IPP internships under their belts.

Also, don't go and do a masters straight after your undergrad if you fail to successfully recruit for IB - as I said above, it is a strong signal that you've failed to break in and are trying to decorate yourself with more prestige in an effort to start anew. Very very very few bankers in Australia have a Masters, because it's just not really a requirement for the job here. We have undergraduate business degrees, why would we need postgraduate degrees to regurgitate the same info? You should have a workable plan B - plan Z in the event plan A fails, none of which should be to go back to uni. While OP hasn't mentioned it in their post, I'd hazard a guess that the general lack of awareness that they had for the industry meant they didn't apply for Big4 CF or Insto, which is a huge mistake as both of these are feeders into IB at a slightly later stage. 

This is excellent advise. As a SA coming into an Aus bank I can tell you the cutoff is extremely competitive. I don’t know of anyone who made the SA cut without prior experience, and no males will sub 80 results. Masters is possible, I know of a couple who have done it in recent times but the bar is higher for sure. Although that being said, with careful research and course selection optimising study for WAM is not difficult. Many struggle because they are lazy in picking and choosing the right courses.

Outside of marks, networking is incredibly important. I know plenty of folks who got boutique interviews by meeting 2-3 analysts for coffee. Yes it’s tedious to do it for a dozen banks but that’s the game. If you can’t do that you will struggle to survive the job. Insead MIM is unlikely to help you with AU IB. Better to come and do a local masters and spend your time networking and knocking the uni out of the park (think 90+). It’s not easy, but it’s not hard - it just requires committment and focus.

If you don’t want IB to learn, you want it for the wrong reasons IMO. A low WAM says a low work ethic to almost anyone who achieved a high mark - and no one wants to work with that guy. Go out and prove them wrong.

 

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