So far IB hopeful scrambling for S&T internship - can anybody provide guidance?
I'm a sophomore at a non-target (maybe a semi-target) majoring in Math-CS that was so far looking into IB internships - the ongoing recruiting cycle isn't going too hot for me and I'm looking to see if there's any chance of me making the quick pivot into S&T. I'm trying to get up to date on the recruiting cycle for S&T, but I'm wondering if it's far too late for me to try to recruit. Regardless, are there any sources that might get me primed on the industry as a whole, how to get interviews, and what to expect during interviews?
I'm decent at mental math if that counts for anything (get 100s on Zetamac default setting - I'm not trying to flex but I am genuinely wondering if this counts for anything at S&T BBs and not prop trading firms of HRT, Jane Street and the like). I like to think I can pick up on things quickly so if anybody can just give me the right guidance, I would be eternally grateful. I am making an effort to learn right now on my own for what it's worth too. Really appreciate it!
While that Zetamac score is absolutely insane, unfortunately it will do close to nothing for you in BB S&T. Under normal circumstances, you would definitely get looks because of your school and your major (as long as the rest of your resume isn't shit), but sadly S&T follows a similar recruiting timeline as IB. The only firms even remotely possible to get into the process now would be UBS and Barclays, and even then it would be an extreme stretch. And because recruiting is becoming so bumped up, there is now less and less of a focus on traditional "technicals". My question is that with your major and mental math ability, why wouldn't you shoot for top HFT firms? They pay significantly more than BBs and are better in many other aspects (not saying everyone should go that route, especially someone like me who was a vanilla finance major). If I were you I would focus on targeting those kinds of firms, especially because recruiting does not happen as early and its more meritocratic, which helps in your case because one of the reasons it is a double whammy to have recruiting so early is that you have to network for months beforehand. At this point I'm kind of rambling but long story short, I think you're unfortunately too late for 2023, if I were you I would start looking to HFT firms or pivoting to shoot for S&T or IB full time (which is totally realistic).
First few years, yeah. Also a lot more volatile. And BB pay can surpass pay there once you're 5+ years in.
Wouldn't say this is always true. Doing S&T at a top BB this summer, did no networking.
Yeah the second part is somewhat true, especially with firms like JPM, it's just that in order for someone to feel comfortable in their ability to come out of recruiting season with an offer I think its necessary to network. Although that's just the approach that I would take for my own peace of mind. We don't know the strength of the school in question here, because some traditional non-targets are actual targets for some BB S&T (e.g. Virginia Tech and Citi)
Just wanted to pop by and say that is some serious numerical acuity if you're scoring 100+ on Zetamac default settings. You must be incredibly gifted in the numerical reasoning department - why not try for prop trading?
You even have the CS/Math background and say you're good at learning lol it sounds like you're the perfect prop trading candidate. Better hours, better pay, arguably more mentally stimulating depending on desk/deals? Not sure though can't speak to IB so don't want to make any assumptions.
Could I talk with you more about prop trading since it seems like you're in the industry? Thanks!
I'm graduating from a STEM degree and went through both Prop Trading recruitment and conventional S&T, and I'd say it's never too late to recruit for S&T. The "technical" questions asked in the interviews were mainly just random things aimed to gauge your problem solving process. One example of this is how many trees are there in North America. In terms of actual knowledge technicals I was asked some very basic options questions and once a pretty lengthy discussion about volatility.
On a side note, I think mental math is a wonderful skill to have in conventional S&T interviews; I have been asked to give 6/7 to as much accuracy as I could. For mental math in prop trading interviews, it's not as clear cut. The basic zetamac settings are nothing like the actual tests given (atleast with Akuna). I could score in the 100's on zetamac but that's cause I was really comfortable in the 1-12 number range, but outside of that I was nothing crazy. Lesson here is to not grow complacent based on zetamac. The math tests on graduatetrader are much more realistic imo.
In terms of resources, I just used the basic 400 questions from IB, but only read through the brainteasers section. S&T interviews were more about being able to comfortably talk about markets, current events, and some trading history. For this, I just read WSJ for 20 minutes a day on my commute to school. If you consistently read WSJ markets, business, and tech sections you will be just fine. Another huge asset is reading trading books. I found Liar's Poker, When Genius Failed, and Market Wizards to be all excellent reads.
Wow, definitely fair. Never heard of someone scoring 100+ on Zetamac being uncomfortable outside of the 1-12 range. I guess maybe that's where I'm a bit stronger. I'd score 70-80 on zetamac and could square 2-3 digit numbers in seconds and estimate fractions to 4-5 decimal places in the same time. Speaking of Akuna that's actually where I got my offer haha, Flow Traders also had some math outside of the 1-12 range I preformed well on.
What did your volatility question refer back to? Did it relate to the greeks or was it more-so the mathematics of calculating volatility and variance? Always curious about those kind of interview questions.
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