Saw this on Real Deal
https://therealdeal.com/la/2023/11/02/artem-teple…
Very unfortunate. I think a lot of people still don't understand how bad the industry will get. Especially considering many were benefactors from the low rate environment and were used to constantly "winning". I know many of my colleagues and friends are depressed and worried. Several have lost their jobs. Let's all stay mentally healthy.
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I think it's a bit distasteful to read into market conditions for this and post this as some sort of indicator of "how bad things will get." Nowhere in the article does it say he killed himself because of deals going poorly or something.
This is a mental health issue, which can impact people outside of real estate just as easily as in real estate. It's sad, not a market indicator.
Sorry, not trying to invalidate your point about mental health, because I agree with you on that, but if you followed him and other real estate people on Twitter, you would have found out that his deals went sideways with the rate hikes and he had personally guaranteed several million dollars worth of debt. I believe he was going through the bankruptcy process and had to sell his home. It's a pretty sad story honestly.
Then perhaps he shouldn't have guaranteed all that debt. Get greedy in boom times = lose big in lean times.
Suicide is a mental health issue (generally) and we should have all the sympathy in the world for that. We shouldn't be tricked into somehow pitying someone for shitty investment decisions. If this guy killed himself because he couldn't face the reality of his business failure, I have a lot less sympathy for that than if he has other problems. And if his suicide wasn't motivated primarily by his real estate career, then I don't like the idea of somehow tying the two together, as @CRE has said.
This seems a little harsh. If he was truly going bankrupt because of excessive guarantee's greed probably did play a role, but I think that development benefits our communities in a lot of ways, from those that are paid to build the project, and those that benefit from living/working in the projects. It's not like this was some shitty "short x,y,z stock" or strip/sell hostile take over type of investing that feeds off someone else loosing money. I have a lot of respect for those that provide the guarantees in the business, they are the ones that make our jobs possible. Sure it's primarily about them making money for themselves, but I do know that operators will proceed with projects to keep employee's working to avoid layoffs (still can be about themselves at the end of the day, but it still helps people).
You are trying to make a point that I think is a valid lesson learned for others, but your comment is a bit tone deaf.
I don’t understand, first you say we should have sympathy for what is clearly generally almost always (when is it not?) a mental health issue. Then you say you have zero pity for the dude because the made a mistake and couldn’t live with the stress and idea of getting fucked and losing everything? It’s a pretty not-uncommon situation where people can’t mentally handle that big of a hit to their life and the thought of their families not being adequately taken care of.
I feel sorry for anyone who can’t feel sympathy for others in these situations. You must have been raised differently or never taught to feel sympathy even when people fuck up, really sorry state to be in…glad I never felt as pissed off at the world as you seem to be.
This is correct. It was generally attributed to the stress and turmoil he was going through as a result of several deals going sideways.
He was about to lose his home and had most of his loans as recourse. He was in the middle of several foreclosures and a bankruptcy. You can say all of this was due to the market going the other way. Very sad, He had a young daughter. His Twitter account was actually very insightful.
Sad sate of events. Unfortunately I don't think this will be the last. People have tied the entire personality up in their business success and anything that impacts that can cause massive levels of depression.
Exactly. This year I’ve really started to question why I give a single fuck if we lose a deal or are sidelined.
My friends who do back office hybrid/remote work for a F500 or are recruiters at random companies are way cooler and happier than the people I work with or the lawyers, brokers, and bankers I interact with. They go to the gym, golf, hang out and don’t give a single fuck about work. Biggest worry is getting beers and getting laid. Less is almost always more.
And those people will be compensated as such. Not to say that's the wrong way to go about life, by the way. I sometimes question why I deal with the level of stress and personal sacrifice that I do, but then again, I am compensated for that. Will I think it's worth it when I'm 60? We'll find out, but generally higher compensation levels come with higher levels of stress. Not always, but usually.
OP the type of dude to use a chart on one of his IC memos where the Y axis is cap rates and the X axis is projected suicides. "Ya bro people still don't understand how bad the industry will get...lotta suicide on the horizon"
This one really got to me. I've thought about it really every day since I first read the news. I think the personal risk that a lot of people take in real estate is normalized for us - "of course you have to bet your house and financial well being to build this 150 unit market rate apartment project!" - but when it goes wrong you really understand what all those personal guarantees can add up to. As others have said, very clearly this wasn't just the recourse loans. He obviously had other things going on mentally, and if you followed him on Twitter, he was very very into some weird medical trends. But it's still incredibly sad and goes to show that suicide can look like a better option than financial ruin to the wrong person under a lot of stress.
My biggest takeaway from the last national conference I went to is that a lot of people (stressing a lot) are dealing with issues at the portfolio level. That will work its way through the system. Everyone is giddy about a downturn until you are in one.
Other than TRT, what other "very weird medical trends" was he into?
I wonder to what extent the TRT led to this outcome. I did some cursory reviews of scientific articles that mentioned high testosterone leads to higher suicide in younger men whereas low testosterone leads to it in older men.
Admittedly I don't really have a great other example other than TRT, but it just felt like he was pushing some new medical trend or diet a lot. He was also very anti-vax so I'm probably projecting off of that as well.
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