I recently attended a Bridgewater info session, and while it seemed like a place that hired a lot of smart young people, it also seemed a little bit cultish ('we tell everybody what we think of them every day, including the CEO' etc etc)...which is fine enough I guess...BUT
What worried me is that upon doing some internet research, it really doesn't seem like a firm that has very good results, and I can't find any other hedge funds that were founded by former Bridgewater people (you might think this is a ludicrous measure of how good a hedge fund is--but consider the number of hedge funds that were founded by former Goldman traders, the number from former Citadel people, former SAC people).
In general, I can't get a gauge of what the exit opportunities are for people from Bridgewater. I'm a little bit concerned that Bwater is a place that sucks in promising young traders, indoctrinates them, and then makes them totally useless for any place except Bridgewater (another reason I wondered about that last point especially is that the presenters emphasized how everybody at Bridgewater rotates all the time--and I'm pretty sure you look less attractive as a candidate to another bank/hedge fund as somebody who's split 3 years between 5 strategies without ever really being senior in any of them as opposed to becoming really senior in one or two strategies). I have no idea what their training program is like but it's entirely conceivable that while it may teach you Bridgewater's way of thinking, it makes you less portable (the program is like 9 months from what I understand, but since their not a quant firm they're obviously not spending those 9 months teaching graduate level finance the way Citadel does). Does anybody know what Bridgewater's reputation is on the Street (and don't just say they're one of the biggest hedge funds therefore they must be good), and where people from Bridgewater go afterwards?
You're right, that is a ludicrous measure of how good a firm is doing.
How many firms do you see ex-RenTech guys starting up?
RenTech requires extremely strict contracts to keep people from stealing ideas and running away (recently filed suit against two PhDs in ny court for that exact thing). Besides RenTech is very small and EVERYONE has an equity stake so theres no big incentive to leave and make it on your own. If you're good you'll probably make tons and tons.
SAC Capital is also strict but they have a policy where ex-traders can leave if they agree to invest with SAC, etc. So there is more incentive to make it on your own and perhaps make even more.
Not a perfect or even very good measure, but it definitely isnt ludicrous.
Bridgewater is not bad, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the elite in the industry. I don't think how many HF's have been started by former employees is necessarily the best indication of how good a fund is, but not a bad way measure to take into account (the best by far are ex Tiger and ex GS guys-GS obviously a little different since it's a bank). Overall, I would probably pass on Bwater, not a bad experience at all, you can just have a better starting place where you will learn and make more $$ in the long-run and have better opportunities later on. Obviously, take them over most small/startup funds (not all), but if your end goal is to end up at an elite HF that has good returns, a consistent, discliplined style of investing and happy LP's (these HF's aren't just the ones in the news like Citadel, there are 30-40 great, top tier HF's out there), think twice.
Yeah they’re definitely really weird. Here’s what struck me as odd:
1) They get a lot of their business from traditionally conservative sources (i.e. Pension funds and University Endowments) what I expect from a HF is business from investors with a moderate to high tolerance for risk. 2) They have that sort of “find your own path” type of touchy-feely crap. 3) They invited all the recruits they liked from the information session (and were planning to interview) to the campus BAR to ‘hangout’ the night before the interview. (Yeah, I have a huge interview tomorrow let’s go get shitfaced and then hungover before it)
That being said, they’ve got national name recognition throughout the finance world, I can’t imagine that working there wouldn’t give you GREAT exit ops.
don't they have like 2% returns?
to clarify, i'm not suggesting that measure be considered as an end-all be -all (or even particularly good), i was just using it because quite frankly, i was having trouble thinking of other ways to get information for free from google (ive done numerous searches on bwater...but if i thought i knew enough from those searches i wouldn't have posted here)...that aside, does anybody have personal experience of people who were at bridgewater then left and went on to bigger/better things?
also, as an aside, napoleon--how do you find those top 30-40 hf's that recruit for undergrads, esp the ones that aren't in the news?
say they recruit at the undergrad level, most don't as they hire people without some experience (a lot won't even hire after 2 years at a BB b/c that's just not the candidate profile they are looking for, although as they grow they tend to hire more junior people). Not a ton of great HF options right out of school except a few like Citadel (not a huge fan of culture), Silver Point, Sankaty (Bain Cap debt fund) and a few others. I'm sure more will begin recruiting as AUM grows. For general reference, style of investing matters a lot, can't really compare TPG-Axon to Rentech or SAC, all are great, top tier funds with very different styles and people. The Rentech guys aren't going to hire the same person as the Lone Pine guys who will differ from the GLG guys. First think about what you want to do, which is tough out of college, since it's most likely you have only been exposed to equities (which is still the biggest asset class), but there a lot of other interesting/lucrative strategies that you probably have not been exposed to and won't be till you join the industry in general. For example, the Silver Point guys are huge distressed/credit investors, very smart and good at what they do. Pick up some books on HF's and talk to some people in the industry who are alumni of your school at various funds.
know this is an old thread but bump for new information. also interested about the exit ops from bridgewater and what their structure is. i know the investment engine consists of research, account management, and trading. anyone know the exit ops from each of the 3?
not sure what exit opps would be for bridgewater.. where would u want to go./? lol
well it's more of the fact that one is more likely to get fired or harassed to such an extent that they quit
From what I gather, those who Bridgewater likes and keep around for more than 18 to 24 months make absurd amounts of money. I once heard someone who used to work there (and didn't stay for longer than 24 months) that it was worth it to get a job there because if you did crack this sort of semi-inner circle, the compensation was outrageously good.
So, it does operate like a cult. Few are chosen at the interview, and still fewer chosen from amongst those hired during the first year or two. But those who are "initiated" and allowed closer to the inner sanctum get hooked up.
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I recently interviewed at Bridgewater. Impression I got was that compensation is pretty mediocre when compared to top hedge funds. Also, the attrition rate is quite high.
Ray Dalio has a big list of his personal ideologies-you can find some posts about it on Dealbreaker.
The fact no one leaves may be indicative of how well they compensate you and how much people like the cult-ish atmosphere.
Regards
Channeling my inner Dalio, I'll ask you: what is a "high" attrition rate? Be specific.
I would say, for top-tier funds, it is not high at all. According to this article, turnover in the first two years is 25%:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/25/110725fa_fact_cassidy
It's a long read, but more insightful than hearing some (potentially) sour grapes from exes/negs.
What do you think about working at Bridgewater Associates (vs Goldman Sachs, MS, etc) (Originally Posted: 06/02/2015)
I'm considering working at Bridgewater, seems like a good company the main thing I'm worried about is their no-compete, I want to see if you guys have any insight working as an analysts/associate at Bridgewater vs some of these other BB's. One nice thing is I get the feeling Bridgewater's hours arent as long especially starting out, and that you're treated better, but the no-compete kinda freaks me out, what do you guys know about it?
Do you have an offer at any of these places?
I'm in the interview process
1) Get the offers first. 2) I'd be more concerned about being a cultural fit than anything. Bridgewater is known to be a bit, for lack of a better word, cult-like.
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