There are many things that I can describe as 'irritating' but finding a time that fits like 20 people on a single email thread is definitely on another level.
The moment I need to switch to something else - quickly work on a table, read a report, or get on a call, I get like 10 reply-alls on the same email chain that say different things. And there is always that retarded one who seems to think that if he's available, the whole team is, or should be (i.e. you get contradicting slots from people within the same party). Then I open the calendar, see if things work, and start sending messages to people asking if they can move some random tentative invite to later. Of course, people don't give a single damn about it because calls should be automatically set up. You send 4 chasers until they reply 'yes'. By the time that happens, you get another set of reply-alls from insecure idiots asking where their invite is. 'I can't see it!'
And before you tell me I should loop in PA's - I can, but they are always too busy doing travel receipts and I'll be getting chasers from people all around. Also I learned the hard way that they are not mistake-proof with this when one of them scheduled a call which is 4am for someone in a different time zone.
I get that every part of 'high finance' is so old-school just because it has to be, but can't people just think through for once and invest in some sort of software that's out there that makes things easier? I'm sure there are thousands of apps that allow multiple parties to raise a request to set up a call, put availabilities as blocks etc. It's probably been there since 2000. Compliance issues? B/S - I don't even see what's in my VP's diary.
At one point we had a client who's doing some sort of agricultural business who pointed out that our way of scheduling calls is 'extremely inefficient, stressful and antiquated'. This is coming from a company where the head of M&A equivalent couldn't be bothered but to wear some worn off dark green t-shirt in calls. Jesus christ.
Do any of you work in a firm that does things at least a bit differently?
Scheduling calls is 100% the worst part of this job… so stressful when the VP is harassing you to “get it on the calendar ASAP” as if convincing MD/their assistant to respond to my emails is at all in my control.
My favorite scenario:
MD: “let’s schedule this for tomorrow”.
MDs calendar is entirely booked from 8am to 10pm.
Me: “Hi MD, your calendar looks pretty right tomorrow, do any slots work for you”
MD: “CCing my EA”
EA [waits 4 hours before responding]: “sorry MD is booked all day tomorrow, how about two weeks from tomorrow?”
VP calls me: “How is this not scheduled yet! Needs to be tomorrow”
This is 100% what I'm experiencing at the moment.
One of the things I've gotten used to is to blatantly call out who's in the wrong, especially when things are outside my powers. I think keeping silent (or worse, apologizing) for things that were clearly not my fault is taken as acknowledgement that I should have done better. When people just don't reply in time and invites don't get sent out in time I would just say to my VP that I've chased multiple times and people are not responsive, perhaps they should raise it in the next weekly call or whatever. This way it becomes their responsibility and I look like I've thought through what is the solution for this problem.
Doesn't make this process efficient though, just helps me keep my temper.
Ask if they can miss any calls. Usually they’re not required on every call. Otherwise do without your MD. ED or senior VPs Iare often enough.
Unfortunately I feel your pain, BIG TIME. Back in my consulting days we were working on a buy-side post close integration project with stakeholders everywhere from South America to France. To make matters worse, my main client was a VP who resided in California but the company was in FL. Therefore I had to connect with him regularly schedule meetings and it was a NIGHTMARE. Every major stakeholder had a sliver of availability each day, we had three consulting companies to collab with, and sometimes needed to bring in some of the PE fund guys as well. It should go without saying that I couldn't see 75% of the required attendees' calendars, so sometimes scheduling a meeting took HOURS. To make matters worse, oftentimes others would schedule over meeting invites so we would need to reschedule, only to begin from scratch. I was the most junior guy on the project so I scheduled all meetings facilitated by our firm. I have never had more respect for PAs. All I can say is no, I have not experienced more efficient ways to navigate these issues, and it was for a long time the bane of my existence.
My one suggestion would be if you can, propose a time while on a call with all the key stakeholders, and hope that the less important members will move things around to make that time work. Once all the leads (IB MDs, PE partners / Corp Dev MDs / Consultant MDs) sign off on a time, everyone else is basically forced to make it work.
If people reply with "I cannot see the invite" I would ignore unless they are very senior, and then just resend.
Sorry your situation is hell, I can relate all too well.
Thanks a lot! Quite disheartening that absolutely nothing has changed for years.
I agree that ideally people bring it up during the final 5 minutes of some team call. I love it when someone just outright says that 'for the financing call, seems like Thursday afternoon works from our side. Let's say, 4pm? Does that work for you?' And then after like 10 seconds of silence (while the analysts frantically go check the calendar to see if it's open) people all go around the table and say that it works for them. Feels that at this point it's hard to be the party pooper and say no.
But realistically not all people are like that so I guess this will continue for some time. Part of my frustration is that despite this being potentially one of the upgrades that might be good for clients/business partners, banks (and firms) barely care about it. If they can come up with a brand new research platform with incredible UI/UX because it looks cool and clients love it, why not develop a simple calendar app to be shared outside the firm so that hours can be saved going back and forth.
Anyways, thanks for the reply - glad to hear I'm not the only one.
There are apps like that out there, but no way boomer MDs would use it even if they had access to it, they would just continue to email analysts
yo if there are any high schoolers on this site, maybe try to develop an app like Real John Smith said? Can get some resume boost as well as respect from some bankers lol. Doing God's work
OP, the secret is to be bold and take charge.
If there's 10 people on an email, I will email directly or call the MD that is the most important that needs to be on the call (or the admin). Once I get a slot I reply all
"Team, looks like thursday 1pm works for md. I am sending around an invite, thanks!"
Now everyone has to reply all and tell this MD why they are so important they cant make his meeting. Most don't, and they find a way to attend it.
Does this really work though? Maybe if it's across different teams within your bank, yes, but what if you have a couple of senior people across the parties? If I do this in these situations I will be called out here and there saying either that the slot doesn't work for them or they've never been asked. Do you have your own way around this?
I check their calendars and find a spot that works for MOST everyone. "Looks like tomorrow 9am works best looking at calendars, just confirmed with [most influential MD] that hes free, sending around an invite now"
take charge of the invite. if they want you to schedule, be the one making the decisions.
Fucking hate it when people schedule call in 15min increments, like at 8:15-8:30am instead if just 8am. Fuck.
Relax man, I've seen 11.00 - 11.10. Reason being MD has to rush out and grab a cab which he booked for 11.15. WTF is that even
I refuse to schedule calls at 8AM. It's one of those "If I'm commuting, and I'm delayed" things. I've had calls derailed (no pun intended) by late trains and traffic in the past. So it sticks with me.
As far as 15 minute calls, it depends on the purpose of the call.
I hate it a lot less than having one or more critical call participants commit to an 8:00 am call but not actually dial in until 8:15 because lo and behold their prior call / meeting, like 99% of all calls / meetings scheduled to last an hour, "ran over." I actually like the +15 start time. It's realistic and courteous.
when2meet is a good site that helps with finding common availability in a large group
Just call them up and ask availability / tell them to respond. Don't think this more than needed.
+1. Why Calendly hasn’t become the standard is a complete mystery to me.
Seriously. Calendly has been game changing for me. None of this "does this time work" bullshit. Send a link and you figure out your own shit.
I still have nightmares about scheduling for a cross border IPO - scheduling between US underwriters, legal, accounting, and then all the respective foreign counterparts makes me want to cry just thinking about it again. Worst was when daylight savings would occur and fuck everything up even more.
Couple of other posts touched on this. Pre-Calendly, I'd just get slots from the most important people and everyone else would just fall in.
Curious how Calendly works… I was on their website but can’t make out exactly how you would interact with it. Any insight would be appreciated.
some much anxiety in this thread
A lot of you are new and I’m going to give you a long gone, burned-out ex-analyst pro tip.
Check schedules and prioritize the most senior individuals, you, and your direct manager. Send the invite with the following:
”Team, this time seemed to work best for the group—glad to adjust if another time would be more productive.”
Now watch as people move their schedules to fit the meeting or a few MD’s go back and forth and say,
“Can’t make that, any chance we could do the eve?”
”9pm works for me”
”yup, me as well”
You respond with an updated invite to 9pm and say, “team adjusted to 9pm to better accommodate schedules”
On the back end of my stint, I would only look at like 1 or 2 peoples cal and just watch as other people figured out the time so I didn’t have to if there was a conflict. That said, often people would just assume that was the only time that worked so they would adjust their schedule to the time I set. Especially when there are a ton of people on the call, it’s going to be a clusterfuck every time, don’t spin your wheels on something so nonsensical.
id pay for a book full of these tips from burned out ex-analysts lol
On the other side, what if you’re one of the analysts who have to adjust and you genuinely have a conflicting meeting of a similar nature/import?
“Hey VP/ associate— I have a conflict for another deal that I need to attend, alright if I sit this meeting out?”
There wasn’t a single time during my analyst career where I had two meetings at the same time where someone else on the junior team couldn’t do my role. (You might get one, if it’s like a modeling call or something, but odds are you won’t be scheduling two modeling calls where you are critical at the exact same time and if you were then you’d schedule around you because you are arguably the most important person.)
thanks but issue happens when people are almost of same rank/same seniority. how are we supposed to solve that then..
It doesn’t change. You set the meeting if your co-analyst can’t make it, that’s tough. It is very common that analysts are trading off on calls, they don’t need to be on every single one. Especially if one deal is going bonkers, you might lose a deal time member for a period of time then when their other deal calms down you resume.
scheduling calls is stupid indeed
This is far and away my least favorite part of the job. Especially since my group places soooo much emphasis on the order of the people in the calendar invite, the subject, the location tab, etc. It's a mindless task but they get pissed if there's an error. So infuriating!
I usually just look at the MD / ED, ie most important 2-3 people. If an associate has a conflicting call and wants to make it he will manage it.
Book the most convenient time for the senior people, then send an email to the broad group that you sent a calendar for X time as that was the best option.
This puts the onus on them to figure amongst themselves if there is a real issue. Others will move their calendar around
Solution is:
- weekly or biweekly calls should be agreed live on the kick off call
- every time there’s a call with an issue raised which needs to be discussed again, the VP should always say something like “can we put in the calendar 2pm tomorrow, CEO, CFO, MD, does that work?” and if need be text client to agree
- and yes EAs usually don’t give a shit. That was my main good surprise when I moved into a boutique after a BB - EAs here are amazing and it makes a world of difference
Definitely feel your pain on this one. Calendar juggling is a real pain. You have senior people that are booked all day, mid-level that block off calendar time, and others where everything looks tentative. Of course everyone is double or even triple-parked (e.g., accepted multiple overlapping meetings).
A couple of considerations...
- VP project management during initial org. meeting: Here there should be a calendar timeline with the key milestones, background, etc. There should absolutely be a meeting cadence baked into this. If you are helping build this deck and you see it's missing, add it and put a red box around it with a 'to be confirmed'. Call it out in the email to the VP. Additionally, determine a particular hour each day that--if needed in under 24hrs--can be booked in the event of an emergency/critical item. This will be discussed during the org meeting and the VP--and really MD--should insist. I typically look to book Monday and Wednesday. Why? Monday: set goals for the week and give quick updates. Wednesday: check on progress towards goals for the week and look ahead to the next. Also - most business people travel Thursdays. So you're just asking for trouble scheduling meetings then. Friday meetings (discussed below) are too late
- MD can't make the meeting and wants to reschedule: Determine if this is a critical meeting that needs the MD. If no, quickly judge if VP can handle solo, then loop in your VP (not through email, but through Skype/Teams/Text/whatever) with the development. As a former banking VP, I'd likely reach out to the MD in these scenarios and say 'I got it and I'll send you over the takeaways. Anything material needing your decision will be tabled to a sidebar conversation'. 9 times out of 10 this would be more than sufficient. Then all you do is give the key person on the client side the heads up and reassure them of no disruption. Result? Meeting as planned
- People in wildly different timezones: Alternate times each meeting. Folks in London, NYC and Australia on the same call? For example; 1st meeting: 5pmET / 10pm London / 8am Sydney. 2nd meeting 8amET / 1pm London / 11pm Sydney. Someone is going to have to bite the bullet. But if the call is recurring, make it equitable. People will appreciate it. Sometimes it will suck and you'll have to take a 1am call. That just happens in cross-border
- Booking times at xx:10 and/or xx:40: If you notice people are in back-to-backs all day and your meeting is really only a touchpoint, then book it 10 mins later than the standard times. Example, instead of 1:00pm, 1:10pm. Why? They'll be late anyways. At the very least they'll appreciate you giving them 10 mins for biological reasons or to grab water/coffee/food
- Booking important meetings: Never--unless something absolutely critical came up--book an important meeting Friday afternoon (or morning for that matter). Why? If it was so important, why wasn't it booked earlier in the week? Also, we may work weekends, but everyone else will forget. So you'll have to remind folks Monday. Waste of time. For other important meetings, early in the week and another touchpoint mid-week
- Take ownership and be direct: Client CFO & MD both have a 1pm slot open? Tell the team that's the time of the invite. No one will tell the client they have more important things going on. And who on the deal team is going to tell the MD they have another conflict? This is a much better route than checking with everyone if that time works
I'm not going to touch on virtual and/or in-person meetings. It's just going to be a mess if you have a mix of virtual and in-person. Just live with it. Everyone gets it.
Wtf completely offload this to the EAs. If you have an EA, have them find time with their EA
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