Consulting Outside of MBB...how hard to get in, how good are exit ops?

Title basically says it. I'm at a non-target, so MBB is pretty much out unless I get very lucky or score some extreme contacts, so I was wondering how good some of the other firms are (such as Booze, Capgemini, AT Kearney, Deloitte, etc.) and how realistic they are from a non-target. If you want a description of my school, its on the west coast (not in cali mind you), enough of a target for Big 4 but probably a fairly big non-target for BB banking or many of the national consulting firms. So since there isn't real recruitment from even Accenture and stuff like that, is it still realistic to maybe get into these other firms? Finally, if I do get into one of these, is it good enough experience for M7 or top 10-12 MBA programs? My main goal at this point is to go to a legit MBA and get into McKinsey from there, so yeah.

thanks

Comments (27)

Jan 29, 2010

I would focus on getting MBB directly, else you'll have that 2nd tier consulting chip on your shoulder. everyone acts like MBB ain't that good when they're at 2nd tier lol, but inside they are crying.

a few 2nd tier is doable from non-targets (e.g. deloitte strategy + ops) > top 10 MBA

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Jan 29, 2010

There's essentially good strategy focused non-MBB and everything else.

The good strategy non-MBBs are just as competitive to get into, sometimes even more so due to the smaller size of the analyst class (i.e. not as willing to look at non-targets). These are firms like Monitor, Booz/Katzenbach, Marakon, LEK, etc. Those firms have amazing placement into b-schools (anecdotally on par with MBB).

Then there are big 4 consulting firms, AT, Capgemini, etc. If you work there and do well, you have a reasonable chance of a M7 school and will be well positioned for MBB post-MBA.

Feb 1, 2010
ideating:

There's essentially good strategy focused non-MBB and everything else.

The good strategy non-MBBs are just as competitive to get into, sometimes even more so due to the smaller size of the analyst class (i.e. not as willing to look at non-targets). These are firms like Monitor, Booz/Katzenbach, Marakon, LEK, etc. Those firms have amazing placement into b-schools (anecdotally on par with MBB).

Then there are big 4 consulting firms, AT, Capgemini, etc. If you work there and do well, you have a reasonable chance of a M7 school and will be well positioned for MBB post-MBA.

Good post.

I largely agree. I don't think b-school placements from the other strategy houses are quite as good as MBB, but you're right about them being very competitive.

I would add that the annual M7 b-school intake dwarfs the annual strategy consultancy intake, and so your chances from those houses are good, especially as all the firms are very experienced in getting their consultants into b-school.

I think you'll struggle going from Big 4, tech consulting, etc. into a top b-school, but it's by no means impossible.

Jan 31, 2010

bump. would be interested to hear more perspectives on this. also, is it just that these firms place well (if they even do) to b schools because the people admitted into the analyst classes typically have good academic profiles? or does a firm at this level serve to compensate for less than stellar ugrad GPA (assuming good GMATs, recs, all else)?

Feb 1, 2010

at op:
if you're near seattle, try checking out PointB. sposed to be good life balance, good pay, focused mainly around seattle, however i got a feeling (maybe read somewhere) that they tend to recruit only experienced hires. check 'em out and see for yourself.

"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

Feb 1, 2010

Well, what MBAs will allow me (outside of the usual suspects...read M7) a good shot at getting into MBB after my MBA and will still have a good enough name for me to exit as a high ranking officer for a corporation. The ultimate goal is to become a high ranking officer after working in consulting for a bit, so in case the top MBAs don't work out, is there any slightly less competitive options that will still give a shot?

Feb 1, 2010

Booz is the firm with the best industry exits outside of MBB hands down (check their website or wiki for reference), and in fact their industry exits are near comparable to BB (they have CEOs at Pepsi, Harper Collins, Siemens, Medtronic, the president at United Tech and the Barclays COO).

PE is another story entirely - way better to be at LEK, Monitor, or Parthenon (if you have to be outside of MBB). also, these firms seem to offer better culture/environment etc. i was making decisions in this tier and found monitor to be the best, but can't deny booz their ridic ability to outplace into industry.

Feb 2, 2010
consulting10:

Booz is the firm with the best industry exits outside of MBB hands down (check their website or wiki for reference), and in fact their industry exits are near comparable to BB (they have CEOs at Pepsi, Harper Collins, Siemens, Medtronic, the president at United Tech and the Barclays COO).

PE is another story entirely - way better to be at LEK, Monitor, or Parthenon (if you have to be outside of MBB). also, these firms seem to offer better culture/environment etc. i was making decisions in this tier and found monitor to be the best, but can't deny booz their ridic ability to outplace into industry.

Well, tbh, I don't care too much about PE. I am more interested in learning everything about a business/industry, how it works, etc., so becoming a C-level exec for a company and being involved in managerial decisions is way more interesting to me than LBOs or something like that. So if you were to name 5 firms outside of MBB, who would be the best for industry placement?

Also, obviously my dad is an old-timer, but he keeps bringing up the term "big 6" consulting firms. Is anyone familiar with this phrase and what those consist of? Obviously, this doesn't hold much relevance now as it seems that nowadays its McKinsey (large gap) Bain/BCG and then the rest, but does that term hold any relevance whatsoever?

Feb 1, 2010

It really depends on context. People don't know this now but Booz actually used to be the premier consulting firm in the 70s and 80s with McKinsey and BCG being distant seconds and Bain in the middle of the pack. Obviously things have drastically changed since then, but the perception of a lot of senior management/board of directors in industry is anchored to their experience at business school/early in their career i.e. still give major credit to the Booz brand name. During PE interviews, I didn't see too many Booz people (partially because their analyst class is MUCH smaller than other similar firms) but I would guess it's still relatively accessible.

Having said all that, go where you like it the best; minor differences in perceived prestige should be subordinate to what you want out of the experience.

Feb 3, 2010

Yeah, ADL and ATK used to be much, much bigger players. Agree with Porcine, very little perceived gap between M and BB.

Feb 3, 2010

Naw.

M >>>> BB

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Feb 18, 2010
PiperJaffrayChiang:

Naw.

M >>>> BB

Worked at 2 firms, one at each end of that spectrum and there is no gap at all. You continually seem to misinform people (you hijack pretty much every thread which you are a part of/initiator), I have no idea if you think it's funny or if you're just extremely ignorant.

If the quality of your posts is any reflection of your ability you won't have to worry about any of this anyway

Feb 18, 2010
mmonkey:
PiperJaffrayChiang:

Naw.

M >>>> BB

Worked at 2 firms, one at each end of that spectrum and there is no gap at all. You continually seem to misinform people (you hijack pretty much every thread which you are a part of/initiator), I have no idea if you think it's funny or if you're just extremely ignorant.

If the quality of your posts is any reflection of your ability you won't have to worry about any of this anyway

consulting master, did working at two inflate your ego exponentially?

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We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

Feb 18, 2010

Sorry - but everyone here is crazy.

Look - simply put - if a firm doesn't recruit from your school - you have a very small chance of getting into that firm. Your chances are slim and none - and slim pretty much left the building.

You can have a 4.0 at U of Oregon - if Booz, Deloitte S&O, OW, Monitor etc doesn't recruit at your school - YOU WON'T GET THE JOB - unless you've got a hook up or something to that matter. Apply on their website ...? c'mon. Get real.

People here have allusions that schools are created equally.

It's not. You won't get in. Look - if you want to get into a top Bschool - find a smaller job and change that company from the ground up.

Everyone here is talking about MBB like its easy to get. NO. Even Deloitte S&O is hard to get. Deloitte S&O doesn't recruit from Oregon. SORRY.

Feb 18, 2010

Sorry dude, a bunch of people on this board who got MBB offers from non-targets (including yours truly) would beg to differ. You probably just have a chip on your shoulder because you hate your job.

Feb 18, 2010
Vermont_Pride:

Sorry dude, a bunch of people on this board who got MBB offers from non-targets (including yours truly) would beg to differ. You probably just have a chip on your shoulder because you hate your job.

Then narrate your story. Which school did you attend and how did you get in? It seems unlikely. Can anyone back me up here? Outside of recruiting - how did you get your consulting jobs? Applied online? Had a network in?

Besides having a network in - i find it very unlikely, but can't wait to hear your story.

Feb 18, 2010
Vermont_Pride:

Sorry dude, a bunch of people on this board who got MBB offers from non-targets (including yours truly) would beg to differ. You probably just have a chip on your shoulder because you hate your job.

Really? Could you elaborate? Besides the usual generic term "networking".

I know this happens, but from what I've seen at my company and other places, it's infinitely harder when not a target school.

But Ken Chen, you do kind of sound bitter about things. Why so serious? Let's put smile on that face. From your other posts, you sound like pretty hard working with high UG GPA. I'm sure you can get into a good B-school and fly from there. You sound like a really good friend of mine also around 24. He's in a similar boat and always seeing the grass being greener on the other side. He's so focused on his lack of career choices being an accountant I believe it's becoming a self-fulling prophecy as he's getting more and more behind at work. Cheer up, you have a decent paying job, living in United States, instead of Spain, Greece, China, etc. where newly graduated college students can't even find anything. By the way, how did you get into IT Consulting with an International Relations major?

Sep 20, 2010

Agree with above, I'm about to start at The McBain Group and my class will be almost all grads from top 5 b schools. There is one guy from Tuck, but literally that is the only exception.

Re prestige I think they three leaders are all pretty close, although McKinsey does have a slight edge - emphasis on slight.

The common analogy is HYP = MBB; obviously you can't go wrong with any of them.

Sep 24, 2010

I honestly don't think it has to be a high-up contact...I had a first-year post-MBA from my non-target recommend me at one firm, and a partner at another...I got an offer at both. I really think that once you get an interview, you own the process, and if you show you're capable, then it's not going to matter who recommended you. Granted, I had the stats to be at a target, but chose to attend somewhere a bit more off the radar (admit stats pretty much the same as lesser Ivies IIRC).

Jul 7, 2014

Just to add a data point..
I went to a non-target for MC but for accounting it is very highly regarded, I was brainless in college and went into Big 4 audit. I realized it's crap and networked intensively into a global MC (non-MBB) firm, very similiarly to these posts/stories that show up frequently on WSO about networking into IB. So, in my experience, it requires lots of networking!

"You are neither right nor wrong because the crowd disagrees with you. You are right because your data and reasoning are right."

-Warren Buffett

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Jul 7, 2014
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Jul 7, 2014
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"You are neither right nor wrong because the crowd disagrees with you. You are right because your data and reasoning are right."

-Warren Buffett