Eagles have the best problem in sports (Wentz vs Foles)

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Any other Philly Eagles fans on this board? What are your thoughts on this looming Wentz-Foles situation? Personally, I think they should keep both. But after 2019, they need to pay Wentz something like $30mm a year which drastically changes the current cap space from where it is now. My preference is to keep winning in the future.

UPDATE: Doug Pederson officially commits to Carson 1/15/2019 1:45pm

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Comments (59)

Jan 9, 2019

Prior to his win against the Texans, Nick Foles had 2 ints and 1 td in three games as the starter. This was against the likes of the falcons and bucs. He threw 2 ints and 2 tds against the bears in the playoffs, mustering a whole 10 points before scoring in the final drive. The decision is not tough. Wentz is on another level as a QB, if we are to go by his pre-injury form from last season. Foles will be traded or leave to get paid by some (dumb) team and he will subsequently return to being the Nick Foles we all know.

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Jan 9, 2019

No doubt. People don't seem to get this.

Jan 9, 2019

"to being the Nick Foles we all know" - I hope that's not a bad reference. He's a solid player. 27 TDs to just 2 INTs in 2013, tied the record for most TDs (7) in a single game, won a SB. He went to the Rams and sucked because the whole team sucked. Todd Gurley didn't even break 900 rushing and just 6 TDs the following year on pretty much the same team (actually they did worse without Foles).

This year, he's come back and won every game since he replaced Wentz again. What was Wentz record as a starter this year? 5-6. 5-6. Foles is 5-1 this year, and, yeah, he lost to the Bucs by 6pts, but that was FitzMagic. Fitz beat the Saints too early on this season. You can't really compare how Foles played against the Bears either because it was arguably the best defense in the league. He deserved one of those INTs for sure, but the other was ehh..

No doubt Wentz was on fire and deserving of the MVP consideration last year before the injury. But Foles stepped in and has been flawless.

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Jan 11, 2019

I think Foles is an average QB, at best. Only time will tell if I am correct.

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Jan 14, 2019
BobTheBaker:

I think Foles is an average QB, at best. Only time will tell if I am correct.

Stellar game from him yesterday. 58% completion/ 201 yards/ 1 TD & 2 ints. Granted, the second int wasn't his fault but those tend to even out as the Saints dropped 1 or 2 gimmes that game. He ends the playoffs with 3 tds/3 ints in two games. Strong.

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Jan 14, 2019
BobTheBaker:
BobTheBaker:

I think Foles is an average QB, at best. Only time will tell if I am correct.

Stellar game from him yesterday. 58% completion/ 201 yards/ 1 TD & 2 ints. Granted, the second int wasn't his fault but those tend to even out as the Saints dropped 1 or 2 gimmes that game. He ends the playoffs with 3 tds/3 ints in two games. Strong.

Saints played excellent defense, but some of the balls he threw just weren't great. I'm not too critical of his play yesterday. I think he did as well as any QB could've, just couldn't get enough plays to go his way, and that happens. Foles will continue to do great things in the league. But for the most part, Wentz should be the guy in Philly.

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Jan 14, 2019

I disagree that he will "continue to do great things". This is getting out of hand. He will be a 12-17 range QB at best (with 12 being on the optimistic end). And you think a QB that barely threw for 200 yards on 1 td and 2 ints "did as well as any QB could've"??? Lmao.

edit: he actually finished with 3 tds/ 4 ints in 2 games. Original post was incorrect.

Jan 14, 2019
BobTheBaker:

I disagree that he will "continue to do great things". This is getting out of hand. He will be a 12-17 range QB at best (with 12 being on the optimistic end). And you think a QB that barely threw for 200 yards on 1 td and 2 ints "did as well as any QB could've"??? Lmao.

Yes, he'll be completely fine. His performance wasn't bad in the face of good defense. And even though he had 1 passing TD he had 2 TDs overall. But a comparison for this specific performance would be Andrew Luck against the Chiefs or Dak against the Rams. As you said, the second pick wasn't 100% his fault.

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Jan 14, 2019

Dak is an average QB (14-18 range) and Luck sucks in the playoffs, check his career stats.

Jan 14, 2019
BobTheBaker:

Dak is an average QB (14-18 range) and Luck sucks in the playoffs, check his career stats.

Right, so any QB... I like Foles. My only point is in the "should the Eagles keep Foles or Wentz" question, the answer is Wentz.

Jan 14, 2019

You're really not giving him any credit. The teams he played at the end of the season, less the Redskins, were all notched as top defenses. Give him a more even schedule of shitty teams, and his stats would obviously balance out. The main thing here is that he got the team a W in these hard-fought games when we were pretty much considered out of the playoffs.

Go back and watch the highlights of the first roundabout with the Saints when Wentz started. You can say that Wentz wasn't healthy, but he still put up quality games outside of this one, so I don't think you can say his health was a factor there. Bottom line is he under-threw WRs and threw his third interception where no one was around (that's just a poor judgment throw, not a health issue). Foles also underthrew yesterday a few times, including one to Ertz where Lattimore really just made a freak jump to catch it. Hi second was Jeffery's fault. Bottom line, in a game in which the starting lineups were largely the same, Foles played the better game. And if you want to knock his stats more from last night's game, consider that he lost two starting linemen and had pressure in his face most of the plays. To reiterate, Wentz probably is the better QB, but I continue to think Foles is the better fit with the team we have; everyone plays better with Foles on this team, and Wentz will probably continue to be injury prone.

Now as for that game...total heartbreaker. We shouldn't have made the playoffs, so that's some comfort, but it's tough to watch four straight wins against the "best" teams (less Skins) and nearly beat the Saints only to lose on a completely avoidable play. Will never blame the loss on Jeffery - dude has been a stud for our team. Coaching was weak - why did Josh Adams, the one bright spot from the week 11 game, not get a single snap? Why did we switch to 90% pass plays later in the game? Why would you run a play before the 2-minute warning when you're on their 27 and have another time out?

I'm excited to watch again next year. Will be nice to start again with a healthy defensive backfield.

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Jan 14, 2019
RobberBaron123:

You're really not giving him any credit. The teams he played at the end of the season, less the Redskins, were all notched as top defenses. Give him a more even schedule of shitty teams, and his stats would obviously balance out. The main thing here is that he got the team a W in these hard-fought games when we were pretty much considered out of the playoffs.

Go back and watch the highlights of the first roundabout with the Saints when Wentz started. You can say that Wentz wasn't healthy, but he still put up quality games outside of this one, so I don't think you can say his health was a factor there. Bottom line is he under-threw WRs and threw his third interception where no one was around (that's just a poor judgment throw, not a health issue). Foles also underthrew yesterday a few times, including one to Ertz where Lattimore really just made a freak jump to catch it. Hi second was Jeffery's fault. Bottom line, in a game in which the starting lineups were largely the same, Foles played the better game. And if you want to knock his stats more from last night's game, consider that he lost two starting linemen and had pressure in his face most of the plays. To reiterate, Wentz probably is the better QB, but I continue to think Foles is the better fit with the team we have; everyone plays better with Foles on this team, and Wentz will probably continue to be injury prone.

Now as for that game...total heartbreaker. We shouldn't have made the playoffs, so that's some comfort, but it's tough to watch four straight wins against the "best" teams (less Skins) and nearly beat the Saints only to lose on a completely avoidable play. Will never blame the loss on Jeffery - dude has been a stud for our team. Coaching was weak - why did Josh Adams, the one bright spot from the week 11 game, not get a single snap? Why did we switch to 90% pass plays later in the game? Why would you run a play before the 2-minute warning when you're on their 27 and have another time out?

I'm excited to watch again next year. Will be nice to start again with a healthy defensive backfield.

lol. Carson was sacked 3 times in that game. Foles: 0. These were different teams.

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Jan 14, 2019

Week 11: http://www.nflgsis.com/2018/REG/11/57725/Gamebook.pdf Yesterday: http://www.nflgsis.com/2018/POST/02/57830/Gamebook...

Only difference is Foles lost Brandon Brooks and Jason Peters yesterday. On defense, the only difference is Saints played a backup linebacker against Foles due to AJ Klein going on the injured reserve.
They were the same teams. Maybe a different game plan, but I don't think so. If you saw the same game I did, you saw Foles under pressure a lot - he doesn't tend to hold the ball as long as Wentz does. Notice Foles throw a lot of balls high yesterday? A lot fell incomplete but they beat a sack any day.

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Jan 14, 2019
RobberBaron123:

Week 11: http://www.nflgsis.com/2018/REG/11/57725/Gamebook.pdf Yesterday: http://www.nflgsis.com/2018/POST/02/57830/Gamebook...

Only difference is Foles lost Brandon Brooks and Jason Peters yesterday. On defense, the only difference is Saints played a backup linebacker against Foles due to AJ Klein going on the injured reserve.
They were the same teams. Maybe a different game plan, but I don't think so. If you saw the same game I did, you saw Foles under pressure a lot - he doesn't tend to hold the ball as long as Wentz does. Notice Foles throw a lot of balls high yesterday? A lot fell incomplete but they beat a sack any day.

Jason Peters played most of the game, can't remember if Brooks came back or not. With Foles, don't you think getting the ball out quick is a change in game plan?

Either way, they're different QBs. The announcers use this analogy of Foles being a PG, just throwing it up to the big guys. That's gameplanned specifically for Foles.

I think Wentz is an elite QB, and the expectation is he will use his playmaking ability in and out of the pocket to make something special happen. You don't see that with Foles because he isn't that caliber of player.

They're different QBs. I think maybe Foles is a good workhorse style of QB, but Wentz is a playmaker and if anything, Doug has to do a better job of gameplanning in situations like the Saints to help Wentz out.

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Jan 14, 2019

I don't think it's much of a different game plan as it is a difference in QB - I think Wentz is willing to take a hit more than Foles is, and as you said, he's a playmaker, so he might break free of that hit 3/10 times. Foles would drop like a sack of potatoes. They both faced a lot of pressure. You just see Foles get rid of the ball quicker.

For what it's worth, I'm not arguing with you - I am more arguing with BobTheBaker on the idea that Foles isn't a great QB. Given protection, he's a fucking stud.

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Jan 14, 2019
RobberBaron123:

I don't think it's much of a different game plan as it is a difference in QB - I think Wentz is willing to take a hit more than Foles is, and as you said, he's a playmaker, so he might break free of that hit 3/10 times. Foles would drop like a sack of potatoes. They both faced a lot of pressure. You just see Foles get rid of the ball quicker.

For what it's worth, I'm not arguing with you - I am more arguing with BobTheBaker on the idea that Foles isn't a great QB. Given protection, he's a fucking stud.

If the Eagles are smart, Wentz will train to do the things Foles did, and when it comes time to a clutch, big moment situation, Wentz can then become a playmaker. But he should learn from Foles how to do what he did. That would make him hands down the best QB in the NFL.

And I agree with mostly everything you're saying. Next year will hopefully be a lot more interesting than this past year. Going to get strapped in to see how the offseason shapes up.

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Jan 14, 2019

Any thoughts on free agents? Ronald Darby, Golden Tate, Brandon Graham, Haloti Ngata, Darren Sproles and Jordan Hicks are all set to become free agents. Would hate to see Graham, Sproles, and Hicks leave, but of those three, I'd say bye to Hicks first since he's always injured.

I thought Ajayi was set to become a free agent as well, but I could be wrong.

Darby leaving would be big. Need better DBs, pronto.

There was also rumors of Peters and Kelce retiring. I'd cry if Kelce left. Peters is getting up there in age, a big pay check, and always hurt.

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Jan 15, 2019
RobberBaron123:

Any thoughts on free agents? Ronald Darby, Golden Tate, Brandon Graham, Haloti Ngata, Darren Sproles and Jordan Hicks are all set to become free agents. Would hate to see Graham, Sproles, and Hicks leave, but of those three, I'd say bye to Hicks first since he's always injured.

I thought Ajayi was set to become a free agent as well, but I could be wrong.

Darby leaving would be big. Need better DBs, pronto.

There was also rumors of Peters and Kelce retiring. I'd cry if Kelce left. Peters is getting up there in age, a big pay check, and always hurt.

If Kelce or Peters retires that would be huge. I think Sproles is also weighing retirement.

Darby and Tate, of the two, I think Tate on a short-term deal could be the most useful player, even though he didn't do incredibly well consistently. I'd say our new CB group filled in decent enough with Maddox and Le-Blanc. Either way, that entire group needs to be tweaked and I think the cheaper the DB the better, as we can focus on more important parts up front while enjoying big paydays for injury prone players.

The RB group is another area that needs to be tweaked. Ajayi enters UFA, but if he can come back from this ACL injury on a cheap deal, he might be the best RB in the 4 man rotation, if we hold onto Adams, Clement, and Smallwood. If we keep Sproles, I don't see anyone in the group being the premiere starter, as they all suffer from injury history, are too small, or just don't have that big bruiser ability, or even speed for that matter.

Obviously, Nick Foles walks because he wants to start. And fingers crossed that Wentz comes back to camp healthy and primed for a nice long season in top form, with a wise Doug Pederson using him effectively.

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Jan 14, 2019

Oh, and yes, Peters left in the second half, if I recall right. Brooks did not return.

Jan 14, 2019

Foles did not have great stats yesterday. However, in the regular season game against the Saints, the Eagles lost 48-7. In that game, Wentz had 0 touchdowns and 3 interceptions. The Eagles performed a lot better yesterday. They were in the game yesterday until the very end.

Jan 14, 2019
Series7examtutor:

Foles did not have great stats yesterday. However, in the regular season game against the Saints, the Eagles lost 48-7. In that game, Wentz had 0 touchdowns and 3 interceptions. The Eagles performed a lot better yesterday. They were in the game yesterday until the very end.

That has to do with the Eagles defensive renaissance more than anything else. And Wentz was clearly not healthy this past year, don't even count it.

Jan 14, 2019

When has Wentz been healthy? He has been hurt each year he has played, which is the reason they should probably keep Foles.

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Jan 9, 2019

We're definitely in an awkward spot. I don't think anyone that actually is super into sports / analysis / listens to analysts would argue that Foles is a better OVERALL QB (current QB and franchise QB prospects) than Wentz. What has put us into a weird spot is Foles post season / late season success. The fact that he won it for us last year and is playing (as well as can be expected) right now may mess with his ego a little. For all intents and purposes Foles was ready to throw in the towel and retire. His wife encouraged him to come back and try again and his recent success has kept him playing. From Foles perspective, even if he's losing the love for the game, I doubt he would turn down being a backup for another team and rack in a nice paycheck for a few more years (and other teams may consider this, looking past his lack of interest in the game, solely based on his performance these last two seasons).

This all amounts to your initial statement. Our options would probably be, in descending preference, Keep Both > Wentz > Foles but given Foles' success if we were to Pay Wentz your recommended 30mmish / year to keep him on board / interested AND had to pay Foles more given his success, it would put us in a really awkward Cap Space.

While I think Wentz is better / overall a better option I can't deny Foles' ability to play really well post season. Given similar times in the pocket and time to release, he's sacked far less than Wentz (forget the #s), which in a high stakes playoff games against the Bears Defense is invaluable.

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Jan 9, 2019
FinancelsWacc:

We're definitely in an awkward spot. I don't think anyone that actually is super into sports / analysis / listens to analysts would argue that Foles is a better OVERALL QB (current QB and franchise QB prospects) than Wentz. What has put us into a weird spot is Foles post season / late season success. The fact that he won it for us last year and is playing (as well as can be expected) right now may mess with his ego a little. For all intents and purposes Foles was ready to throw in the towel and retire. His wife encouraged him to come back and try again and his recent success has kept him playing. From Foles perspective, even if he's losing the love for the game, I doubt he would turn down being a backup for another team and rack in a nice paycheck for a few more years (and other teams may consider this, looking past his lack of interest in the game, solely based on his performance these last two seasons).

This all amounts to your initial statement. Our options would probably be, in descending preference, Keep Both > Wentz > Foles but given Foles' success if we were to Pay Wentz your recommended 30mmish / year to keep him on board / interested AND had to pay Foles more given his success, it would put us in a really awkward Cap Space.

While I think Wentz is better / overall a better option I can't deny Foles' ability to play really well post season. Given similar times in the pocket and time to release, he's sacked far less than Wentz (forget the #s), which in a high stakes playoff games against the Bears Defense is invaluable.

I just started thinking about losing Foles or Wentz today. The reason is, he doesn't want to play for another team. The only issue I really see is the 20m in Foles' contract. Clearly, he wants to be paid like a starter, so I can't doubt that he missed his opportunity on the Eagles.

With Wentz recovering from the ACL injury, my theory is Foles was competing for the starter position, but lost out given the unimpressive start. When Wentz returned, I would like to think he all but solidified his position, because he played like the better QB, despite so many other things going wrong with the team.

Now, Foles would have most likely walked, which I think would've been the best situation. Except, he's making a really strong case for himself with this late season play. At this point, it seems awkward to let him walk, we should keep the magic going with him on the bench to make a late season run if we need it next season, or get something for him.

It's crazy complicated now. But hats off to Doug keeping things under the lid.

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Jan 9, 2019

Agreed on all points, though I don't know if returning post ACL injury was as simple as "whichever plays better will start". I feel like the plan all along was to get Wentz back up and running. Right before the London game Doug said some BS along the lines of "Nobody expects anything of us now, we're always underdogs, let's put our heads down, work out the kinks and become a great team". Like ok... these are professional football players and you're just going to slap them on the ass and tell them that weak BS?

But yeah if we had to lose someone I'd want to lose Foles. I just don't agree with the "its ok if we suck for a few years until we incorporate Golden Tate into the offense and get Wentz up to speed" cop out.

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Jan 9, 2019
FinancelsWacc:

But yeah if we had to lose someone I'd want to lose Foles

Yeah, if you think otherwise just rewatch the 2017 highlights. It's confirmed. We need to keep Wentz over Foles. Wentz can do everything Foles can do, but Foles can't do half of what Wentz can.

Jan 9, 2019

Except win ;)

Jan 10, 2019
RobberBaron123:

Except win ;)

He tore his ACL doing what? Scrambling for a game winning touchdown, and getting pancaked between two defenders. It would've worked if not for a hold call and he came back after the injury to score on a difficult game winning passing touchdown the next play.

You don't call that winning? Mind you, he basically got us to that winning first seed record on MVP caliber play.

And if you're using 2018 to assess how good Carson is, that's just completely dishonest if not stupid. The guy apparently was dealing with some back stress issue all year and recovering from an ACL tear. He played differently all season than last year and still has solid numbers. Top 10 rating/QBR for most of the year. Got us to around .500. TD ratio at 3, 3,000 passing yards on just 11 games. You really think Foles is the better QB after Wentz has shown that it's no fluke and played like an MVP for an entire season? And the guy is only 25/26, four years younger than Foles.

You can't base Foles off having nothing but tailwinds. Wentz did not have a good team this year. When you look at the Rams situation for Foles, that tells you everything you need to know. He's externally driven. Wentz is just a different kind of guy.

Jan 10, 2019

Just hope you know that I am an Eagles fan as well.

2017 he was on fire. Certainly MVP worthy.

Carson was good in 2018 as well, but I didn't get the "amazing" feel I did in 2017 (e.g., escaping four sacks to bomb it 40 yds). His passing stats are actually better this year. But let's be honest, the record (i.e., "got us to around .500") is absolute SHITE. I know it's not Wentz's fault either. But there's something to be explained with a sudden turnaround in the season as soon as Foles is under center.

Saying Foles has had nothing but tailwinds, except maybe in 2017, is completely dishonest if not stupid. Foles started this season and went 1-1. He lost to a Bucs team that also beat the Saints and almost beat the Steelers (Fitzmagic put up 400+ in his first 3 games with 11 TDs). Carson then comes in and goes 5-6. He plays very well with the exception of the Saints game (everyone played like shite that game). Foles takes over the team at an overall record of 6-7 and goes 4-0 against very difficult teams who were supposedly the best defenses in the league (Bears, Texans, Rams), with the exception of the Redskins.

Most of our problems this season have been on the defensive front. Carson played fantastic. Again, Foles has stepped up and played fantastic against the hardest teams in the league. But let's be honest, before we knew Carson was out and we were heading into the Rams game, did you really think we'd beat them? How about the Texans? I just think it's extremely coincidental that the whole team turns around when Foles steps in and they haven't lost and have beat top teams. I don't think it's the coaching. I don't think it's just Foles - the defense is playing lights out right now. But there might be more optimism and drive among the players who won the SB with Foles under center.

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Jan 10, 2019
RobberBaron123:

Just hope you know that I am an Eagles fan as well.

2017 he was on fire. Certainly MVP worthy.

Carson was good in 2018 as well, but I didn't get the "amazing" feel I did in 2017 (e.g., escaping four sacks to bomb it 40 yds). His passing stats are actually better this year. But let's be honest, the record (i.e., "got us to around .500") is absolute SHITE. I know it's not Wentz's fault either. But there's something to be explained with a sudden turnaround in the season as soon as Foles is under center.

Saying Foles has had nothing but tailwinds, except maybe in 2017, is completely dishonest if not stupid. Foles started this season and went 1-1. He lost to a Bucs team that also beat the Saints and almost beat the Steelers (Fitzmagic put up 400+ in his first 3 games with 11 TDs). Carson then comes in and goes 5-6. He plays very well with the exception of the Saints game (everyone played like shite that game). Foles takes over the team at an overall record of 6-7 and goes 4-0 against very difficult teams who were supposedly the best defenses in the league (Bears, Texans, Rams), with the exception of the Redskins.

Most of our problems this season have been on the defensive front. Carson played fantastic. Again, Foles has stepped up and played fantastic against the hardest teams in the league. But let's be honest, before we knew Carson was out and we were heading into the Rams game, did you really think we'd beat them? How about the Texans? I just think it's extremely coincidental that the whole team turns around when Foles steps in and they haven't lost and have beat top teams. I don't think it's the coaching. I don't think it's just Foles - the defense is playing lights out right now. But there might be more optimism and drive among the players who won the SB with Foles under center.

For all we know, Wentz had a very solid season while hurt with back problems. This is his 3rd year in the league. He was recovering from a ACL/LCL injury just months prior. He sat out since December and didn't get back to even just practice until August, one month before the start of the season. He was still among the top QBs...

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Jan 10, 2019

No doubt he was.

I think this article (coincidentally timed) explains my thoughts pretty well..
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001009585/art...
For the sake of the WSO community, I'd liken this as to performing better when you work for a boss you like. That's my take and suspicion. But I totally can see Bucky's point - or whoever it was - that less is expected of Foles and Pederson tends to coach less risky with him. But his article hits my thought on the head in that the team just performs better with Foles under center.

Jan 11, 2019
RobberBaron123:

No doubt he was.

I think this article (coincidentally timed) explains my thoughts pretty well..
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001009585/art...
For the sake of the WSO community, I'd liken this as to performing better when you work for a boss you like. That's my take and suspicion. But I totally can see Bucky's - or whoever it was - that less is expected of Foles and Pederson tends to coach less risky with him. But his article hits my thought on the head in that the team just performs better with Foles under center.

That's the hard point I see. Are you weekend about the day when this team stops being lucky? Are you worried about the inflection point when Wentz being injured is no longer a large factor and Foles gets exposed?

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Jan 11, 2019

I don't know if it's luck though. I don't think it is. Foles has proved he can compete in the past. It sounds like you have something against him. In any case, whatever happens, I think we are in a good position because we have two amazing QBs. I will not be upset if we have to let one or the other go because I know we still have a solid QB - I'll be upset more because "Wentz had so much potential" or "Foles was a hero on this team."

Part of being on a super bowl team and having success is that you lose good guys. I hate (but still love) to see Frank Reich killing it with the Colts. Players and coaches will for sure leave after this year as well. So my biggest worry, as you asked, is whether we can address those losses in the offseason. Unless the defensive backs continue playing like they have been, I think we need to address the d-backs in maybe an offseason trade. I'm excited to see where the draft takes us, too.

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Jan 9, 2019

Bottom line, I believe in Howie Roseman to do the right thing. I didn't like the Tate trade until he caught the winning TD last Sunday. But I think we can figure out a solution that will work great.

After we won the SB last year, I actually felt bad for Foles knowing he'd ride the pine in 2018. But man, this season has been a damn rollercoaster. Our offense just wasn't the same powerhouse, our defense wasn't getting the QB pressure and our pass D was absolute dog shit (only got worse when we relied on practice squad players to join the 53-man roster). But as soon as Wentz left and Foles came in this year, it's like a completely different team. I don't know what it is. It cannot be Doug Pederson and the coaching staff. I tend to believe it's that the team just believes in Foles more and it shows up in the way they play. Our defense is NOT dog shit anymore, and our offense is firing on all cylinders.

As you said, Foles doesn't want to play anywhere else and was close to retiring. I would like to believe he'd renegotiate his contract for a slight increase rather than a full $20mm cap hit. Maybe there is an opportunity to give him more bonus upside rather than guaranteed money (I don't know all of the details of his contract or how player contracts are structured). He's a Texan, so I'd reeealllly hate to see him end up in a place like Dallas.

Go birds!

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Jan 9, 2019

And to be completely honest, I think trading Wentz for a first-rounder is not a crazy idea. The team seems to mesh with Foles better, he's presumably paid less, and there's only a three-year age difference. Foles won the SB and is now rebounding the team after that brutal season lead by Wentz, and Wentz has managed to get himself hurt just about every year.

Jan 9, 2019
RobberBaron123:

Bottom line, I believe in Howie Roseman to do the right thing. I didn't like the Tate trade until he caught the winning TD last Sunday. But I think we can figure out a solution that will work great.

After we won the SB last year, I actually felt bad for Foles knowing he'd ride the pine in 2018. But man, this season has been a damn rollercoaster. Our offense just wasn't the same powerhouse, our defense wasn't getting the QB pressure and our pass D was absolute dog shit (only got worse when we relied on practice squad players to join the 53-man roster). But as soon as Wentz left and Foles came in this year, it's like a completely different team. I don't know what it is. It cannot be Doug Pederson and the coaching staff. I tend to believe it's that the team just believes in Foles more and it shows up in the way they play. Our defense is NOT dog shit anymore, and our offense is firing on all cylinders.

As you said, Foles doesn't want to play anywhere else and was close to retiring. I would like to believe he'd renegotiate his contract for a slight increase rather than a full $20mm cap hit. Maybe there is an opportunity to give him more bonus upside rather than guaranteed money (I don't know all of the details of his contract or how player contracts are structured). He's a Texan, so I'd reeealllly hate to see him end up in a place like Dallas.

Go birds!

Yeah, there's definitely something special about Foles every time he comes in for Wentz. But I worry it's only because of timing. Some people rely on external motivation and I feel like that's Nick Foles. Plus, Wentz was throwing into the wind with the OL/DL injuries, then the secondary with guys walking in off the street, and Tate looking like a bust until last week. Everything changed after we played Dallas.

I agree that the team rallies around him. Would it be crazy to wish these guys would take lower pay to keep this thing going? That would be ideal.

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Jan 9, 2019

I mean...we did see Chris Long donate his 2017 salary... I also recall something about Jason Peters taking a salary reduction last year, but I can't confirm whether that actually happened. You aren't going to see that from the young guns though.

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Jan 10, 2019

One thing you have to consider, and this is rhetorical, but do you think Wentz actually gets back to his former self? I mean, an ACL tear is in and of itself a difficult thing to come back from. Then you throw in his injury this year. There is definitely something to be said for someone being injury prone. Usually people become more injury prone after they get a few big ones like he has had, given that other parts of the body become stressed to compensate. Look at Darren Sproles as a case study. Granted, RB's are obviously more injury-laden given their position, but I don't think you can rule that out with the Foles/Wentz tradeoff. I guess what I'm saying is that if you stick with Wentz, there's no guarantee he gets back to his 2017 form. With Foles, you probably have a lower ceiling, but a higher floor as well with that into consideration. I don't think it's an easy decision. I'm firmly in the keep Wentz camp, but by no means do I think it's a slam dunk decision.

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Jan 10, 2019

Really it's all about looking forward. Foles plays good, but its kinda in flashes. With all the efforts put into scouting these days, I don't think players get overlooked after giving the time he's been giving. What I mean is, the Eagles have enough data to make a decision.

It's actually not a good problem, because if the one they get rid of works out while the one they kept doesn't, they will get monday morning QB-ed to death.

It's funny, I saw a bit on ESPN and they talked about how Wentz broke his wrist in college. Nothing against him, but sometimes players don't live up to their potential because they injury prone. Just because you have athletic skill doesn't mean you body is made of iron. Not everyone is Big Ben.

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Jan 11, 2019

Foles won a super bowl. Gimp wentz didn't.

Jan 14, 2019

It's like saying that if Tom Brady gets injured now (or before the game against the Chargers) and his backup would go on to win the Super Bowl, then Brady would've had nothing to do with it.

It's a completely flawed logic and a moronic way to look at things. It'll be difficult to let go of Foles as he is a good player and valuable member of the organization, but it would be a colossal mistake to let Wentz go somewhere else at this point in his career. You just don't come across a franchise QB easily - just ask the Browns (or half the teams in the league).

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Jan 14, 2019

Please quote anywhere I said letting Wentz go was a) a good idea or b) what I wanted?

Dudes been injured two seasons in a row. Foles has matured a lot as a QB, got them to the playoffs both years and won the super bowl last year.

People need to remember, eagles we counted out until Foles came and got them to this point. And NO played shitty. Assuming that pass was caught, they were driving hard.

Jan 14, 2019

Oh please, at least stand by your opinion. If "Foles won a super bowl. Gimp Wentz didn't" as an answer to the question of who should be the Eagles' QB going forward does not mean you prefer Foles, then there's a bigger communication issue at stake.

Anyway, I want to re-emphasize that I believe Foles is a good QB - he's calm, his experience allows him to be efficient when defenses put pressure on him and he has a good arm. Also, definitely deserves a lot of credit for their post-season run and title last year. However I think the discussion is more on a strategic level of how to proceed going forward given their contracts as of today (in case of Foles) and their future potential (more in Wentz' favor).

In my opinion, I just think it would be a tremendous mistake to dismiss Wentz because he got unlucky with injuries two years in a row (and I do appreciate that being injury prone is certainly a concern) and ignore that he would give the Eagles the security under center that a team needs to stay relevant throughout a large period of time.

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Jan 14, 2019

And I once again reiterate, when did I say Wentz wasn't good or should be kicked to the curb.

Plain fact is Foles not only one the Super Bowl, he got them to the playoffs both years when they were counted out.

Foles plays well because the team works well with him. He wouldn't do as well elsewhere. And Wentz has been hurt for the bulk of the last two years. How about the guy plays healthy for a year before we suck him off.

Everything I'm saying is factual btw. I

Jan 14, 2019
TNA:

Foles won a super bowl. Gimp wentz didn't.

Flacco won a Superbowl. Marino didn't. Sound logic, as always.

Jan 14, 2019

Another worthless analysis.

Jan 14, 2019
TNA:

Another worthless analysis.

Just as worthless as your Foles SB vs. Wentz gimp comment.

Jan 14, 2019

1) Flacco didn't play for the dolphins or second string to Marino.

2) Flacco was a pretty good QB in his own right. Wentz, Foles or Flacco aren't as good as Marino.

This discussion is about Foles vs Wentz. You're analysis is turd and my quip (aka not an analysis) was that Foles won a Super Bowl and led the eagles to the playoffs twice. Mind you, he did this after Wentz underperformed and was injured.

Wentz is a good QB, but back to back seasons he's started and been injured most of the season. And back to back seasons he's left his back up with an uphill climb.

And both times Foles got the team together and led them to the playoffs, one time winning the super bowl and the second, nearly beating the Saints.

In conclusion, your initial argument sucks and your rebuttle sucked.

Jan 14, 2019

Your point initially read like this: QB-A won an SB thus he is better than QB-B. It was initially a worthless argument. You added context to your initial post so now it isn't as worthless as it originally appeared to be. Doesn't mean it wasn't initially worthless. I replied with a pointless rebuttal which highlighted how worthless your initial post was. Glad you added context in your future posts clarifying what exactly you were trying to say. He didn't nearly beat the Saints. He was objectively bad the entire game (as discussed above). The Eagles' defensive renaissance is what nearly beat the Saints.

Jan 14, 2019

Eagles lost because they couldn't run the ball and NO dominated on possession time. Foles has a 58% completion ratio and decent pass yards. NO didn't hit the Vegas spread and if they last ball was caught by butter fingers the eagles could have tied the game.

NO should have crushed them and they got away with a 6 point win.

For 2018 Foles had a top 5 completion percentage. In reality, it was a 3 way tie for 3rd place. Hardly shit.

And my QA vs QB hot take was pretty relevant since Wentz has the POTENTIAL for greatness, but hasn't shown anything but flashes of greatness. And he's always hurt.

Oh, BTW - Foles has a ring.

Jan 14, 2019

In the modern NFL a 58% completion rate and barely 200 passing yards is not decent. He ended the regular season well, I'll give u that. Don't plan on seeing Foles as your QB again. You guys don't have cap space (and he counts $20+ million against the cap next year) and could use the draft assets a trade would bring in.

Jan 14, 2019

I love how you gloss over his 69% full season rate. Or the fact that the clearly better team put in a shit performance. Or the fact that NO dominated possession time which will clearly reduce potential yards.

You're factually wrong, as always.

Jan 14, 2019

In all fairness, Foles didn't have an uphill climb in 2017. The whole team was outstanding. If you would call it uphill, it could only be "the backup QB is taking over now, and all of us NFL analysts think their season is over now" but Foles went in and played like an all star.

The main point here I'd agree with is that Foles is a legend in Philly as the MVP of their first SB championship. Guy is a stud under the right circumstances (with good protection). BobtheBaker isn't giving credit where it's due.

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Jan 11, 2019
iBankedUp:

My preference is to keep winning in the future.

This would be wonderful. Had forgotten what it felt like to be a fan of a great team until last year! In the last two years both the Eagles and 76ers have been getting better and I've been loving it.

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Jan 11, 2019

Wentz has proven through injuries that the Eagles need to keep Foles on the team. For now, Foles is the QB and if the Eagles win the super bowl again, he should be their number 1 QB next year. It will be truly miraculous if the Eagles can beat the Saints this Sunday. They were crushed by the Saints earlier this year. I know Wentz probably has more talent but Foles deserves to be the go to guy for now.

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Jan 14, 2019
Series7examtutor:

Wentz has proven through injuries that the Eagles need to keep Foles on the team. For now, Foles is the QB and if the Eagles win the super bowl again, he should be their number 1 QB next year. It will be truly miraculous if the Eagles can beat the Saints this Sunday. They were crushed by the Saints earlier this year. I know Wentz probably has more talent but Foles deserves to be the go to guy for now.

What does this exactly mean?

Jan 14, 2019
Jan 11, 2019