Any other Philly Eagles fans on this board? What are your thoughts on this looming Wentz-Foles situation? Personally, I think they should keep both. But after 2019, they need to pay Wentz something like $30mm a year which drastically changes the current cap space from where it is now. My preference is to keep winning in the future.
UPDATE: Doug Pederson officially commits to Carson 1/15/2019 1:45pm
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Prior to his win against the Texans, Nick Foles had 2 ints and 1 td in three games as the starter. This was against the likes of the falcons and bucs. He threw 2 ints and 2 tds against the bears in the playoffs, mustering a whole 10 points before scoring in the final drive. The decision is not tough. Wentz is on another level as a QB, if we are to go by his pre-injury form from last season. Foles will be traded or leave to get paid by some (dumb) team and he will subsequently return to being the Nick Foles we all know.
No doubt. People don't seem to get this.
"to being the Nick Foles we all know" - I hope that's not a bad reference. He's a solid player. 27 TDs to just 2 INTs in 2013, tied the record for most TDs (7) in a single game, won a SB. He went to the Rams and sucked because the whole team sucked. Todd Gurley didn't even break 900 rushing and just 6 TDs the following year on pretty much the same team (actually they did worse without Foles).
This year, he's come back and won every game since he replaced Wentz again. What was Wentz record as a starter this year? 5-6. 5-6. Foles is 5-1 this year, and, yeah, he lost to the Bucs by 6pts, but that was FitzMagic. Fitz beat the Saints too early on this season. You can't really compare how Foles played against the Bears either because it was arguably the best defense in the league. He deserved one of those INTs for sure, but the other was ehh..
No doubt Wentz was on fire and deserving of the MVP consideration last year before the injury. But Foles stepped in and has been flawless.
I think Foles is an average QB, at best. Only time will tell if I am correct.
We're definitely in an awkward spot. I don't think anyone that actually is super into sports / analysis / listens to analysts would argue that Foles is a better OVERALL QB (current QB and franchise QB prospects) than Wentz. What has put us into a weird spot is Foles post season / late season success. The fact that he won it for us last year and is playing (as well as can be expected) right now may mess with his ego a little. For all intents and purposes Foles was ready to throw in the towel and retire. His wife encouraged him to come back and try again and his recent success has kept him playing. From Foles perspective, even if he's losing the love for the game, I doubt he would turn down being a backup for another team and rack in a nice paycheck for a few more years (and other teams may consider this, looking past his lack of interest in the game, solely based on his performance these last two seasons).
This all amounts to your initial statement. Our options would probably be, in descending preference, Keep Both > Wentz > Foles but given Foles' success if we were to Pay Wentz your recommended 30mmish / year to keep him on board / interested AND had to pay Foles more given his success, it would put us in a really awkward Cap Space.
While I think Wentz is better / overall a better option I can't deny Foles' ability to play really well post season. Given similar times in the pocket and time to release, he's sacked far less than Wentz (forget the #s), which in a high stakes playoff games against the Bears Defense is invaluable.
I just started thinking about losing Foles or Wentz today. The reason is, he doesn't want to play for another team. The only issue I really see is the 20m in Foles' contract. Clearly, he wants to be paid like a starter, so I can't doubt that he missed his opportunity on the Eagles.
With Wentz recovering from the ACL injury, my theory is Foles was competing for the starter position, but lost out given the unimpressive start. When Wentz returned, I would like to think he all but solidified his position, because he played like the better QB, despite so many other things going wrong with the team.
Now, Foles would have most likely walked, which I think would've been the best situation. Except, he's making a really strong case for himself with this late season play. At this point, it seems awkward to let him walk, we should keep the magic going with him on the bench to make a late season run if we need it next season, or get something for him.
It's crazy complicated now. But hats off to Doug keeping things under the lid.
Agreed on all points, though I don't know if returning post ACL injury was as simple as "whichever plays better will start". I feel like the plan all along was to get Wentz back up and running. Right before the London game Doug said some BS along the lines of "Nobody expects anything of us now, we're always underdogs, let's put our heads down, work out the kinks and become a great team". Like ok... these are professional football players and you're just going to slap them on the ass and tell them that weak BS?
But yeah if we had to lose someone I'd want to lose Foles. I just don't agree with the "its ok if we suck for a few years until we incorporate Golden Tate into the offense and get Wentz up to speed" cop out.
Bottom line, I believe in Howie Roseman to do the right thing. I didn't like the Tate trade until he caught the winning TD last Sunday. But I think we can figure out a solution that will work great.
After we won the SB last year, I actually felt bad for Foles knowing he'd ride the pine in 2018. But man, this season has been a damn rollercoaster. Our offense just wasn't the same powerhouse, our defense wasn't getting the QB pressure and our pass D was absolute dog shit (only got worse when we relied on practice squad players to join the 53-man roster). But as soon as Wentz left and Foles came in this year, it's like a completely different team. I don't know what it is. It cannot be Doug Pederson and the coaching staff. I tend to believe it's that the team just believes in Foles more and it shows up in the way they play. Our defense is NOT dog shit anymore, and our offense is firing on all cylinders.
As you said, Foles doesn't want to play anywhere else and was close to retiring. I would like to believe he'd renegotiate his contract for a slight increase rather than a full $20mm cap hit. Maybe there is an opportunity to give him more bonus upside rather than guaranteed money (I don't know all of the details of his contract or how player contracts are structured). He's a Texan, so I'd reeealllly hate to see him end up in a place like Dallas.
Go birds!
And to be completely honest, I think trading Wentz for a first-rounder is not a crazy idea. The team seems to mesh with Foles better, he's presumably paid less, and there's only a three-year age difference. Foles won the SB and is now rebounding the team after that brutal season lead by Wentz, and Wentz has managed to get himself hurt just about every year.
Yeah, there’s definitely something special about Foles every time he comes in for Wentz. But I worry it’s only because of timing. Some people rely on external motivation and I feel like that’s Nick Foles. Plus, Wentz was throwing into the wind with the OL/DL injuries, then the secondary with guys walking in off the street, and Tate looking like a bust until last week. Everything changed after we played Dallas.
I agree that the team rallies around him. Would it be crazy to wish these guys would take lower pay to keep this thing going? That would be ideal.
I mean...we did see Chris Long donate his 2017 salary... I also recall something about Jason Peters taking a salary reduction last year, but I can't confirm whether that actually happened. You aren't going to see that from the young guns though.
Really it's all about looking forward. Foles plays good, but its kinda in flashes. With all the efforts put into scouting these days, I don't think players get overlooked after giving the time he's been giving. What I mean is, the Eagles have enough data to make a decision.
It's actually not a good problem, because if the one they get rid of works out while the one they kept doesn't, they will get monday morning QB-ed to death.
It's funny, I saw a bit on ESPN and they talked about how Wentz broke his wrist in college. Nothing against him, but sometimes players don't live up to their potential because they injury prone. Just because you have athletic skill doesn't mean you body is made of iron. Not everyone is Big Ben.
Foles won a super bowl. Gimp wentz didn’t.
It's like saying that if Tom Brady gets injured now (or before the game against the Chargers) and his backup would go on to win the Super Bowl, then Brady would've had nothing to do with it.
It's a completely flawed logic and a moronic way to look at things. It'll be difficult to let go of Foles as he is a good player and valuable member of the organization, but it would be a colossal mistake to let Wentz go somewhere else at this point in his career. You just don't come across a franchise QB easily - just ask the Browns (or half the teams in the league).
Please quote anywhere I said letting Wentz go was a) a good idea or b) what I wanted?
Dudes been injured two seasons in a row. Foles has matured a lot as a QB, got them to the playoffs both years and won the super bowl last year.
People need to remember, eagles we counted out until Foles came and got them to this point. And NO played shitty. Assuming that pass was caught, they were driving hard.
Flacco won a Superbowl. Marino didn't. Sound logic, as always.
Another worthless analysis.
..
Wentz has proven through injuries that the Eagles need to keep Foles on the team. For now, Foles is the QB and if the Eagles win the super bowl again, he should be their number 1 QB next year. It will be truly miraculous if the Eagles can beat the Saints this Sunday. They were crushed by the Saints earlier this year. I know Wentz probably has more talent but Foles deserves to be the go to guy for now.
What does this exactly mean?
I think Wentz has more talent in terms of arm strength and running ability, but so far he has not been able to stay healthy. Also, when Foles plays, the team seems to play better. Foles helped them win a super bowl last year and guided them into the playoffs this year. The Eagles were not very good this year until Foles became QB. I am not sure what will happen next year. My guess is that Wentz will be the QB. If the Eagles would have beaten the Saints yesterday, I think that Foles would deserve to be the starting QB next year.
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