For some of other forums on this website there seems to be a emphasis on first job/team importance for exit ops/pay/prestige, etc...
How important is your first job in CRE? I've heard a wide range of opinions. Can anyone fill me in on some insight?
Thanks
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It matters some.
I'm not trying to be obtuse either, I swear.
Does working at a brand name company, or working for a top team, or working in the sector or type of position you want to be in long term help your resume and thus your career? Yes. Undoubtedly.
Does not working at a brand name company, or a top team, or in the sector or type of position you want to be in long term hurt your career? Eh. Maybe?
I had 4 different roles in the industry (and grad school) before I made it into development. The amount of time it took for me to land where I wanted to be certainly delayed my career and one could argue I'm "behind" where I otherwise could be - especially given the opportunities presented in this cycle. Did that prevent me from building award-winning projects, making money off of them, and enjoying what I do? Not really - I just did it at 30-31 instead of 24-25.
If you have the opportunity to work REPE at Blackstone, start off in Development at Hines, or learn from the top broker at CBRE you should take it and not look back. If you don't? You shouldn't worry about it and just try to kick ass wherever you are, knowing that in real estate nothing is static.
100% agreed - these forums hype up prestige so much it is ridiculous. In banking and traditional PE, yes, brand names matter down the road significantly, particularly because starting your own fund is exponentially more difficult.
In CRE, there are so many different avenues and types of roles/focuses that its not so black and white. Working in REPE at Blackstone or Starwood is great if you're interested in understanding institutional, entity-level investments, but if you want to start your own regional development shop in the future then how is buying OpCos and massive portfolios going to teach you the skillset you want/need?
Consider what you want to do in the long-run. If you're a corporate guy and want to rise through the ranks at a Blackstone in REPE, or become a top guy at Hines, then you should worry about brand name more in your early career.
However, I find that a ton of CRE guys eventually want to hang their own shingle and if we're being realistic, most of us will, at best, be able to build a successful regional shop. 99.9% of us aren't building the next Blackstone. If that's the case, there's absolutely nothing wrong with working for the local developer in your tertiary city - actually, this might be more beneficial in the long run as it allows you to build a useful network in that region (albeit it'll likely be harder to get your first capital raise without a big name on the resume).
All the above being said, from what I've seen in my network, the big firms may be picky about target schools at entry level, and brand names for associates, but above low level roles they aren't as selective and look more at what you bring to the table beyond the name. I know quite a few guys that started at a $1-5B fund that are now working at megafunds and international developers, including Brookfield and Hines to drop a few names.
So, please understand that I do not give this answer lightly, and I really, fully honestly believe it.
The answer is...... IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL
That is extreme, so allow me to explain myself....
For the vast majority of people, your first job out of grad school or UG is not your last. Some may stay at that first firm for a long time..BUT... that is even only true IF they get promotions and advancement. Entry level jobs are by definition for short-duration, everyone transitions (even if in the same building).
Your actions are what MATTERS! They determine your path, earnings, advancement, and even 'exit' opportunities. No offense to the WSO world, but the reason why someone with 3+ years of IB experience at a GS/MS, other BB type firm is desired in PE is because they have that 'name on their resume', it is because of the skill/experience they can demonstrate from actually doing the job. You can do a shitty or great job, learn a lot or slack off. Some people get those 'impossible' to get jobs and end up sucking, sometimes even getting fired (i've heard the stories, usually from the firer not the firee). So let's consider to paths.... A and B.
A. You get the 'dream' job right out of UG or grad school. It's probably at a 'large' firm and you are at the bottom of the pile and your role/job is super silo'ed and you dream of joining the big dogs on the floors above. You have to fight your way up, deal with politics, and generally trade your time and effort to get ahead sometimes to extremes. There really is no guarantee of a perfect pathway because of this job. Many quit or are basically told to exit soon because they won't get promoted (never seen that AMA, but it is out there more than most think). Some do exceptionally well, impress the team, and get promoted and get huge bonuses and MDs that will call in favors for them in the future.
B. You get 'a' job out of UG or grad school, with a firm few have heard of. It's 'small', you get to see everything your firm does, play nearly all roles, but the deals are small and won't get covered in the local biz journal. You are treated well and paid okay, you get way more experience than your age/training dictates you should, but really there are few paths for 'promotion' in such a small firm. You could stay in this world for a career, or your dreams of joining the big firms propel you to work your ass off, network, make a name for yourself, and find a way out. Maybe that is grad school if you are out of UG. In reality, you may or may not actually make the 'leap', but you think about it.
So, not sure you or anyone will agree with it, but I say first job doesn't matter. My first jobs out of UG and then MBA were both small, meaningless firms (both of which do not exist due to the '08 GFC). I now work at a 'big' firm in a mid-level senior role, crazy path in between. I think most paths are non-linear, and that's okay.
Final note/caveat.... This response is really relevant to CRE. I think first job/path matters more in IB/PE/HF world, but I'm not in that world so I can't really speak to it.
I disagree. I'm on the same page as you in terms of "the brand name of your first job doesn't matter," which is probably what is being asked by the OP - as you say, this isn't the circle jerk of the Wall Street world where being at Goldman entails meaningfully better opportunities than at RBC.
But I would argue that being at a place where you don't necessarily get silo-ed is incredibly important. Unless you really want to live in a single silo for your career (which is fine), gaining a basic understand of the whole process early will be hugely important later on. This is not an industry which rewards specialization, in my experience. Yes, it's good to be really good at one thing, but you need to be silver at all trades, not necessarily gold in a few. To that extent, being a broker can be hugely valuable because you get exposure to what each party wants, and if you get after it and look beyond the daily grind of cold calls and putting OMs together, can really understand how all the moving parts come together. Ditto for most other jobs; if you can get this experience or mindset early, it will cut years off your career ascent, it that makes sense.
I don't think getting silo-ed in a first or future job is that bad, you get to specialize and hopefully 'master' that field/area. Once one does that, they do need to be more proactive to getting changes of roles or maybe even job/firms.
That is really my overall point, the job doesn't matter, but how you manage it. Nothing is perfect and its really in any individuals control to make advantages out of whatever they are dealt.
I disagree with you here. There are very few jacks of all trades in CRE. Specialization is the key to success in this industry, unless you work for a large LP investing in all asset classes. Almost every successful broker i know specializes in one asset class, both in investment sales and leasing. Every start-up fund i've seen is founded by guys with track records in one asset class. Developers and value-add investors focus on one asset class because it's what they know and they kill it in their respective market/region.
I will say that having acquisition, AM, sales and accounting experience is helpful to running your own shop, but it won't kill you if you don't have it all.
it sets you up for being accountable for mistakes since this is where you first encounter them
Not as important as people think.
Getting the right first job (in CRE or anything else) is just the easiest way in. If it doesn’t happen for you, you get several more bites at the apple. You can lateral in, go to b-school, etc etc. Earlier is easier but nobody in college should be losing sleep that they might miss the first on-ramp.
My first job in CRE or at least related to it was in commercial lending which while presenting the opportunity to gain exposure to the sector was very cookie cutter and formulaic. My current job is on the corporate finance/strategy at a REIT.
How did you make the transition?
I talked to a recruiter at the right time and nailed the one interview I had with the CFO and VP.
My first job was in Big 4 audit, I’m a CPA I had internships in real estate Those internships played a factor with me get back to real estate at least telling that story (REPE) Those internships also helped me get into the Big 4 Have somewhat a broader college experience with areas you might be interested in. Gives you optionality.
I don’t think the first job is the make or break. But after years in college and 5 or so years, you should be somewhat focused on a path. That’s how you accumulate credentials in your given field.
Grad school for the reset button, if needed. In another post, I explain that grad school is becoming the new undergrad.
What really matters about your first job is that you are either able to: 1) acquire skills or 2) have a brand name on your resume which you can leverage to a second job. People like hiring from brand names because those relationships can be leveraged for future business.
I started at a "brand name" firm, which was able to land me a spot at a smaller, yet reputable firm that has allowed me to gain a more well-rounded set of skills.
No one can deny the skills.
just depends how fast you wanna move
It matters, but not as much as your desire and willingness to work to get where you want to be......
Get the best jobs you can and continue to chase your end goal. No need to beat yourself up or waste time thinking about not having the best current role, that does you no help.
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