Lazard Recruiting..ugh
I just spoke on the phone with a someone pretty high up at Lazard and he just told me that unless I'm from a target school, or my dad's the CEO of a client company, then I can never get a job here. Can anyone confirm this? This sucks for me because I don't go to a target school. Are us non-target schoolers just not allowed to go into banking? I've been networking my butt off and its really frustrating.
If you attend a non-target I would shoot for firms that are further down the ladder.
But there has to be a way to at least get an interview with these elite firms. I mean where you go to school can't matter THAT much can it?
Your school matters a lot particularly in this market. (however any personal connections you have within the firm are equally valuable)
Unfortunately, if you do not got to a target and/or you do not have any contacts within Lazard (or whichever bank) it is unlikely that you will even get an interview under current market conditions.
Once you are in the "system," the story changes. So just take any position you can get, even if it is at a so-called "lesser" bank and leverage you way up the ladder as you prove yourself in the future.
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there are 2 scenarios to this situation: a) the md is telling the truth and really won't consider non-targets b) he just wanted to see what you would say afterwards or if you would give up. I think it's b.
I don't really understand what a post like this is meant to accomplish. Are you hoping that people on here will tell you "sure, you can definately get an interview"? No one even knows who you are or your background so what does it matter what they say. And even if they do tell you you will absolutely get interviews, does that mean that you can automatically count on hearing back from Evercore, Moelis, Jefferies, etc. or even BBs? And if everyone on here says you don't stand a chance at getting interviews, does that mean you will go crawl in a hole and stop trying? I think this site is super valuable in a number of different ways for junior bankers or prospective bankers. But it never ceases to amaze me how many people come on here crying the blues about not getting this interview, or not hearing back from this bank, or not being given some superb assignment your third week as an SA. I don't post on here much and no one has reason to trust anything I say since it is an anonymous forum, but let me offer you three thoughts:
1) This generation (which is my generation) has an unbelievable sense of entitlement. No one owes you anything and if someone doesn't want to talk to you or interview, then tough. These places owe you nothing and therefore, why are you acting so surprised that they won't interview you? Banks get flooded with more resumes than they can possibly handle. No one is saying you suck or are stupid but they have to have some way of weeding people out. And if they don't want to talk to you, so be it.
2) Why come onto an online forum looking for encouragement from people who don't have any idea who you are and their opinions aren't going to change your course of action? If you really want to be successful and get into this business, you are going to have to learn to not give up because it isn't easy to survive, especially in an economy like this. Just go work hard, network, and quit looking for people to make you feel better. 70% of your life as an SA or Analyst is going to be spent getting kicked in the pants, figuratively. Are you going to come online and look for encouragement from everyone else when your VP screams at you for screwing up a model? And if you are, what good does that do?
3) In poker, you play with the cards you are dealt and do the best with them that you can. You can't cry to the dealer and exchange cards. You aren't at a target. Your dad isn't the CEO of a client company. You can't change either of these things and if that causes people to not want anything to do with you, tough. It serves zero purpose getting upset about it. Why would it? you can't change it so just go make the best of what you have and find other opportunities.
I came from a non-non-non-target, trust me. I networked quite well, got extremely lucky finding internships, and learned as much as I can. When I began recruiting my senior year, people told me to not waste my time talking with BBs or elite MMs and to focus on higher probability firms. I did that but I still went out and tried my luck with the big firms. I got two offers from BBs and one from an elite boutique. Just beat the odds and stop crying, you can't do anything about what people say, think, or do. It is out of your hands.
i totally agree with these points
Alumni are your best bet. I know you mentioned you've been networking, which is great. Have you put together a list of names from your school that have any remote connection to finance?
Look at your database. Are you from a large, state-school non-target, or a smaller, liberal arts-type school? The former will lead you to alot of contacts at the BB and top banks, just by the law (or fallacy of, whatever, it still works) of large numbers.
I went to a non-target, and most kids don't even bother to look at the alumni list, even though it's some 50,000 strong. The strangest thing is, that when you sift through the names for hour upon end, you find that alot of them are at top BBs and boutiques, well-known PE and Mezz funds and best of all, they went to your school, so they know how much it sucks to have to claw your way from a non-target. Have you talked with them? If not, do that first. Good luck.
Maybe true for this upcoming year - but I went to final rounds at Lazard NYC for IB for SA this past season. My school is an actual non-target (ranked less than 40th for US News), but through an alum I was able to get a first round (he doesn't work there) and did well enough to go to final rounds. Got put on hold (like a lot of people), and just accepted elsewhere.
I understand the whole target school thing - but honestly, just keep pounding on doors as another alum told me. To be honest - as long as you are polite and not overbearing throughout the process, the answer is "no" until you try (ie you have nothing to lose).
A
Listen, in all seriousness people always say things like we only recruit from targets, but that's just to see how hard the others will try to get through the cracks. Believe me, it is frustrating, but eventually you will make it because there is no doubt that hard work pays off. I work with a BB and go to a non-target but definitely in the top 25 finance programs and top 50 schools. I understand that Lazard is giving you a hard time but you can't let that MD just discourage you like that. Even if he is an MD, his word stands no chance to the hard work you put in trying to network and get those interviews. I know people who have cracked Lazard without going from a target. Hell, I know people who have gotten into BX without going to a target. Also, it isn't mandatory that you go to Lazard, after all Lazard isn't like the best of best is it? Go to some other firm and if you're still keen on Lazard then go there.
Would one of you guys who did a lot of networking with alumni mind sharing a little bit more about the process?
Did you email, phone, or meet in person?
What exactly are you asking them to do when you do make contact?
Any sort of example phone call script or email letters?
Start out with some e-mails to introduce yourself. Don't include a resume until they ask you for one. Tell them you found them on the alumni database, and you want to talk about careers. They understand this probably means you don't have work. From there, ask them to set up a phone call with you, and be very open to their busy schedule. I always said something like, "let me know what day and time is best to talk for you, and I will make sure I'm available". Be accomodating.
When you speak with them, tell them what you want to do (be brief, don't talk too much, since you want them to do most of the talking).
Make sure your script letter is brief, but tells them exactly what you want (phone call, informational interview, recent graduate or current student looking into this-this-this).
Don't prepare a scripted phone talk, you'll sound like a moron (and worse, insincere). Be conversational, they're alumni of your school and went through everything you are going through now. What you can and should have, is a prepared list of questions. Ask them about what they did to break into ______ after they finished school. Ask industry specific questions and their inside view on how to get in. Ask about their work (they love this, obviously). Appeal to them, but don't suck up. No bullshit from your end either: tell them what you're intersted in and what advice they have for you.
why would you not include a resume? i know the tradeoffs (turning them off because it puts pressure on them to give you a job) but it can also help.
what do you guys think? the point of networking at this moment is to find a job, not to make friends with alums for the sake of making friends and hearing about their stories.
would it be best to be straight out up front, "can you pass my resume off"?
that is a terrible way to approach networking. who cares if you're only making contacts? it will only help you.
of course contacts are better than no contacts. what i was saying is that for those of us seeking to find immediate employment, it's really now or never, it's do or die. therefore i think that we should take a more aggressive approach.
tons of people are willing to just speak with you about their college frat days etc and then at the end of the convo they'll tell you "to apply, please go to GS.com career section"
Like This new by Alphaholic (Baboon, 123 Points) on 6/27/08 at 1:02pm Start out with some e-mails to introduce yourself. Don't include a resume until they ask you for one. Tell them you found them on the alumni database, and you want to talk about careers. They understand this probably means you don't have work. From there, ask them to set up a phone call with you, and be very open to their busy schedule. I always said something like, "let me know what day and time is best to talk for you, and I will make sure I'm available". Be accomodating.
When you speak with them, tell them what you want to do (be brief, don't talk too much, since you want them to do most of the talking).
Make sure your script letter is brief, but tells them exactly what you want (phone call, informational interview, recent graduate or current student looking into this-this-this).
Don't prepare a scripted phone talk, you'll sound like a moron (and worse, insincere). Be conversational, they're alumni of your school and went through everything you are going through now. What you can and should have, is a prepared list of questions. Ask them about what they did to break into ______ after they finished school. Ask industry specific questions and their inside view on how to get in. Ask about their work (they love this, obviously). Appeal to them, but don't suck up. No bullshit from your end either: tell them what you're intersted in and what advice they have for you.
Couldn't agree more. I'm from a non-target, and I've been doing the above for the past month or so. I've spoke to several MDs that I found on my school's alumni network, all of which have been extremely helpful. The more you network, the easier it's going to be to find a job. And thats not my statement, its what I've heard from anyone who has been successful from a non-target.
Congrats, you seem to really know what your doing. The problem with my school is that we currently have zero alumni in banking at most of the BBs so I have to cold call and make non-alumni contacts. I'm going to keep at it though and hopefully something works out.
mnabanker33 - chill out man.
I go to a nontarget too and have friends that are in some of the top SA programs. Don't get me wrong, its definitely more difficult. No point on aiming at a lower firm. Alumni are definitely the key. My buddy at a top BB IBD group tells me that the other summer analysts seem a little shocked when they find out what school we go to. Once youre in the door, youre in the door.
Adding to it, the MD that hired him gave him the job because he liked his fight to get in. He networked his way to the interview and, assuming all goes well, has the opportunity to get a full time offer just like everyone else.
'this is the kid. calls me 59 days in a row. wants to be a player. there ought to be a picture of you in the dictionary under persistence kid.'
Jason, have you actually successfully used networking before?
An alumni or contact has no interest period in helping you get an interview or a job if you do not become someone he likes and is at least familiar with.
There is no way to skip that step. You can accelerate it perhaps by being persistent and being smart. But you can't skip it and actually expect success bc without that contact liking you there is no difference between you and someone else firing blind online applications.
I don't meant to put a damper on the discussion ... but to suggest that any MDs anywhere really care about getting you a job is ludicrous. I went to a non-target school and ended up at a pretty good MM shop, where alumni from my school are VPs, SVPs, MDs, and Senior MDs. At a non-recruitment event on campus, a Senior MD (who has made considerable donations to my school) told me that it was nice to meet me, but he'd prefer not to give me his card and didn't want to be bothered with recruitment questions AT ALL. Instead, I talked to an analyst. He passed my resume along and got me an interview, which I must have done well with because I got the summer offer.
My MD is also an alum and spoke to me once the entire summer: on my last day he came to lunch, took two bites of his salad, made the offer, and left. THESE GUYS DON'T CARE!!! If you really want to make connections, don't go to the top. Go to the analysts.
At the same time, though, I agree with mnabanker33. Get over yourself. If you're qualified, you might get an interview. Otherwise, tough luck.
why am I not surprised that the random shit being talked in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the thread title..
Work at BoA, Wachovia, or Barclays, get paid the same amount, and excel in a top group (pun intended!)
Seriously man, it sucks how prestige-oriented the industry is, but you can break into it.
For example, I know that at Goldman AND McKinsey, kids from Michigan State, UVA, and Davidson all have front office jobs.
Get a great internship and network, and things will work out.
Did you just compare UVA to Michigan State and Davidson? One thing I will guarantee you, not a single McKinsey BA right now is from Michigan State or Davidson.
i don't think they even recruit there. as far as prestige whoredom goes, mckinsey ought to be at the top of the list.
heck, even the boutique firms (i interned at one) don't look at schools outside the top 10 or so. there are just too few positions and the reasoning was what we could fill our class many times over with excellent talent from top schools... the 'name' goes a ways in consulting. clients are less outraged when they hear they're getting advice from a 22 year old from harvard rather than michigan state.
Your career path is going to have twists and turns. I got my first job out of a target school, but at a tiny/obscure firm, but in a really good group. I would wager that the guy at Lazard who was so dismissive to you is probably either 1) an insecure dick by nature, or 2) a decent guy who's worried about his own hide right now. I tend to be encouraging to people who reach out to me for networking help at my firm, but the only time I get really short-tempered is when my own position feels shaky. It's like, "I'm not sure I'll have a job in a month, but YOU want my help getting in?!?!" Just not in a rational frame of mind when that's the case.
Now, I'm in a firm that's growing and in an industry group that's doing extremely well. As other people said, concentrate on getting in and staying in the industry, and if you stick with it, you'll be fine.
pun intended? http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=puns
curiousmonkey,
A BA in McK's 1st year class is from Mich. State (1 out of 100). If you are at McK you can probably search the firm directory to learn more about him (ideating, I have a feeling you might be...). Obviously McK doesn't recruit at anything besides top 15 schools, but there are other ways in (networking, alumni, resume drop) to get an interview.
McK is a ridiculously prestige oriented company (even Duke and Brown get shafted from internship spots, and both are arguably top 10 schools), but from what I understand he interned at a top energy/refining company every summer and it is likely that his knowledge of that industry will be leveraged in serving energy clients.
Hope that clears things up - after all, McKinsey IS known to hire talented people out of industry in key areas which are becoming more complex/high demand.
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