Log 5: Sorry for Being Late

Alright, I guess I'm back. I've come to realize that my 100 cold messages were minuscule compared to some of my piers. I've heard stories of people who would send thousands of cold emails through out a week, and others who have had 6 internships before graduating. It's pitiful but I'm becoming overwhelmed hearing about all these individuals.

Please critique me.

Log for Week 10/7/2019-10/17/2019

Networking:
Yeah... this was bad. I had 4 calls, and ended up doing dog shit on all of them. I've come to realize, I highly lack personal skills when talking to bankers. I'm fine talking to closer individuals, but I get nervous around people I hold high esteem to. The last call I had really hurt my self confidence, the whole call was extremely awkward and I honestly think I should cut ties with that bank. Aside that, I still did manage to get three calls this weeks, but I am dreading the thought of having to do them.

In other news:
I started competing in an equity analysis competition where, ironically, I will end up doing a DCF. The whole competition will go to the beginning of December where we'll eventually be judged by industry professionals. It's great to put on your resume and a good opportunity for practice.

My Thoughts: (New Section)
I'm making this sections to vent my thoughts. I try to ignore the thought of this but I am really bad at socializing. I'm not a complete weirdo but I have a really hard time talking to people outside of my personal groups. I'm just gonna hope that the more you talk, the better you get at it.

Questions:
How do you guys maintain a positive outlook? It's only been 5 weeks since starting this and I'm already in a slump.

Goal
- Go for roughly 200 emails.
- Finish my current book.
- Talk to 4 more industry professionals over the phone.

Comments (17)

Oct 14, 2019

Its a numbers game. Keep emailing, keep taking calls, keep on keeping on. You will get better, you will improve your response rate, and you will improve your calls and ability to maintain relationships from those calls. Just think of it as a numbers game and the law of large numbers, you will get closer to that mean/expected value of getting that job.

Oct 14, 2019

Thanks I appreciate the comment.

Most Helpful
Oct 14, 2019

Dont compare yourself to anyone first of all. Look I guarantee you that most of those people saying that they sent a thousand emails per week are bullshitting. I have a close friend infamous for this, guy has emailed around 400 people total, but when asked about recruiting by other people he states that he used to email 200 people per week.

You cant control what other people are doing or have done, so worry about what you can do which is continue networking and learning. Focus on the things that you have full control of and bust your ass doing them.

I'll tell you a little story about myself, when I first started on my journey to recruit for banking I was coming from a community college, I had 0 finance experience and no one that I could ask for help. I come from nothing, I lived in extreme poverty all my life, so everything was completely new to me and everyone around me in school was more accomplish and polish than me. I could of lamented my situation that I had no control of, but fuck that, I decided to worry only about the things that were in my control. From there I busted my ass networking, teaching myself accounting/valuation/technicals, polishing my speech in front of a mirror, and working on my soft skills, similar to you I was also shy/akward with new people.

Through hard work and just focusing on what I could control, I was able to land my first ib internship during the school year and landed a buyside summer gig. How did I do this? Once again by doing things that were in my control, which was networking with the MD at the boutique and expanding my network that hooked me up with an interview for the buyside gig.

Ultimately, I was able to land an offer at one of the top groups in banking, which was the best placement in my school's history. Once again, I could of had lamented my situation and lack of everything, but I didnt. I didnt give a shit that Jimmy and jenny had more experience than me already and had connections in the industry even before I set foot on campus. What I gave a shit about were the things in my control, like deciding that I would outwork everyone by a mile from the day I started and on.

Apologies for the long ass message and grammar (too lazy to edit), had a break from class and this thread fired me up. Don't worry about only sending 100 emails, thats a good number, fuck anyone that says it aint. With that being said, if you do find that you have time left over after your 100 emails, it wouldn't hurt to send out a few more, but I wouldnt freak about it. Consistency is key in my opinion, and if you are trying to do 1000 emails per week you are going to hurt the quality of your emails and probably hurt your consistency.

    • 8
Oct 14, 2019

What an outstanding story, I really enjoy whenever you comment on these threads. You really cut the bullshit and give me some hard advice.

    • 1
Oct 14, 2019

Also dont worry about fucking up those calls, it happens. When I first started my first calls were also pretty bad, just like everything in life besides sex (Im still bad at it) the more you do it, the better you will get. Reflect on what you think went wrong and how you can be better on your next call and so on. There are thousands of people in the industry, just cause you fucked up with some, it doesnt mean that you have no chance at that bank in the future. You will get better and you will find people that will help you out, but if you give up on knocking on doors cause you are tired of people closing them on you then you might never find these people.

    • 3
Oct 14, 2019

Goated

    • 1
Oct 14, 2019

In regards to doing well on networking phone calls, the most important tip that allowed me to do well on calls is to remember that bankers are people too. Just because they hold a job that you want, doesn't mean they are to be revered, especially if you're not speaking with a superstar MD. They accepted your request to set up a call, which should show you they respect you enough to take the time to speak with you for a bit and answer the questions you have.

Another tip is to do your research before the call. Obviously, understand what the basic services offered by Investment Banks, especially the group of the person you are speaking with. Understand any recent news regarding the bank and their role on recent transactions. Additionally, know your story. Why are you interested in banking? Are there any particular things you want to know more about? What have you done to set your self up for recruiting? These are topics that will come up during the call.

People will always tell you networking is a numbers game, but I had a lot of success with a limited/targeted approach. If there are alumni from your school, target those connections more than others. And like countless people before me stated, reach out to people who share some sort of experience with you, your answer rate increases significantly.

Investment Banking is not rocket science, it is not insanely challenging. IB attracts a specific personality, and if you come off as desperate to break in or as a super try hard, I guarantee that you won't make it. You need to keep your options open and realize that life isn't IB or bust like many on here believe. If you don't get an offer, there are other great opportunities out there for you to pursue. Next time you get on a call, drop the attitude that you absolutely need to be in IB and try to have a normal conversation where you are genuinely interested in the person's background and career. Your main priority should be to learn more about the industry and their bank. If the call goes well, you won't even need to ask them to push your resume, they will ask you for it. That my 2 cents. You can choose to follow some of these tips or not. But if you only follow one tip, I hope it's the fact that there is more to finance than IB.

    • 1
Oct 14, 2019

Thanks for the advice, I've heard this before and am definitely considering it. As it is near impossible to get an investment banking internship without prior internships, I'm hoping that those experiences on the way will help me decide where I want to go. Besides that I'm mainly set on Investment Banking.

Oct 14, 2019

I'm a investment banker at a well known middle market bank. DM me and I'll talk to you on the phone.

    • 1
Oct 14, 2019

I think everyone on here would agree that your transparency in your posts and documentation of your journey is refreshing. Keep it up.

5 weeks is nothing. Keep going. Like others have said, the only way to get better is brush off the 'losses', learn, and keep trucking forward. Nothing worthwhile materializes overnight, not even 5 weeks.

The key to positive outlook is - relish in the failures and get used to hearing 'no'. Every time you hear it you are one 'no' closer to the 'yes'.

"Out the garage is how you end up in charge
It's how you end up in penthouses, end up in cars, it's how you
Start off a curb servin', end up a boss"

    • 1
Oct 14, 2019

Thanks for the advice, that's sounds like a really good saying.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Oct 14, 2019

Oddly growing attached to these logs lmao

    • 4
Oct 15, 2019
Definetlynotabanker:

Questions:
How do you guys maintain a positive outlook? It's only been 5 weeks since starting this and I'm already in a slump.

Goal
- Go for roughly 200 emails.
- Finish my current book.
- Talk to 4 more industry professionals over the phone.

I disagree. You're not in a slump, but you're setting the bar too high. There is no way to consistently pump out 200 good emails/week and follow up on the ones that yield results. If I were you I'd say 5/day that are of high quality will be better than 25 that are mediocre.

Keep up the grind and best of luck!

    • 3
Oct 15, 2019

It's tough to stay positive when all hope seems to be lost. The process is a grind, but it is also a war of attrition. The longer you stay on board while others jump ship, the less competition you have. For me personally, it was a matter of 6-8 months of nonstop hard work. The recruitment process is tough because it weeds out the losers, the quitters, and the disorganized. You're correct in that the more you do it, the better you will get. Don't overthink. Just approach every conversation with openness, intellectual curiosity, and genuine intentions of getting to know that person and their experience. PM me if you want to talk further.

Array

    • 1
Oct 15, 2019

You're really overshooting here. 200 emails is overkill. Focus more on reaching out to certain people that you can connect with somehow. If you can't, then shoot for whoever will listen. I probably sent around 80 or so cold emails not including university alumni (Non-target) from February 2019-August 2019. I probably averaged around 3-4 calls per week. I signed with an UMM IB in NYC in September. My strategy was reaching out to people in banking that used to work at the F500 I was interning with at the time. Got tons of great responses from that.

I ended up with 7 superdays for SA 2020 and only 1 was thru alumni. (School sends around 30 to the street per year). Be personable. Just be a normal human being. My first calls were horrible and I sounded like a robot. Needless to say, that bank didn't work out. You're just at the beginning of networking most kids haven't even started yet for SA 2021. You'll be fine. Keep up the good work.

    • 2
Oct 17, 2019

What yr are you if you dont mind me asking?

Controversial
Oct 17, 2019
Comment
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