PE Megafund vs. BB IBD
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I would go with PE fund if you think you can convert it to an offer. The PE fund brand + small # of SAs will make selling this relatively easy if you decide to do FT recruiting in the fall..may put you at a SLIGHT disadvantage compared to top BB SA's...but who needs banking when you can jump straight on the PE ship out of undergrad lol. There's no way it limits your career options if your ultimate goal is to get to / stay on the buyside--it just makes you look that much more impressive. In any event, I would definitely take them over a european BB & would only consider otherwise if I received an offer for a great group at GS / MS , and even then it would be hard to turn [PE fund] down.
Hey thanks - but the position is with their Credit group and that's separate from PE. Does this change things?
PE Fund
Any specific reasons?
you'll learn way more there than at any bank, and if interested in banking post SA, you will be at an advantage
Seriously bad advice. [PE Fund] is one of the great brands in finance but this group is far from the real action. Investment grade debt and CLOs are a good business model, but it's essentially sleepy asset aggregation. You will be analyzing some of the most boring credit's in the world and learn a lot less and if you so choose, be a lot less prepared for real PE than you would in banking.
Another way to think about this is that the MDs on the team come from places like TCW and maybe make a million a year if lucky. Is that what you really want for your first job?
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What divisions are you interviewing with at Goldman and Morgan?
Both IBD, but non group-specific.
As cool as it would be to work for [PE Fund] if you were with the right guys, you are better off building your career and experience with a solid IB foundation, build contacts and modeling skills, and get into the firm you want with the group you want later.
Good job for when you want to make decent money and work 50 hours a week in a low stress environment. Not for when you start your career. You don't want to limit yourself yet. And taking the banking job will open up many more possibilities.
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50 hrs is for the senior guys. You will definitely work a bit harder, but it's not banking.
And I'm not saying it's a bad job. It's just off the fast track as far as Wall Street goes and your tone implies you're not ready to leave the fast track quite yet.
If I saw this on your resume as a senior banker, I'd think you were smart enough to get the job but be unimpressed by [PE Fund] (given the specific role) and have concerns that you were unested as a Banker and may have lifestyle concerns.
[PE Fund] credit hasn't even conducted superdays for SA positions. Also, assuming you did get an offer, you should take it because you can easily move to banking, though most likely restructuring, if you want for full-time (e.g. PJT, Evercore, Miller Buckfire).
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Buy-side internships can be great; if you loved it and get the return offer, you're set. If you didn't love it, you can leverage the name and exclusivity of the program to get into BB FT cycles. The downside is that they're often unstructured, often intentionally don't offer FT conversion, and aren't comparable experience for banking.
Banking, especially at the most well-known firms, offers unparalleled future mobility. That's the cachet. The comp isn't great on relative terms. You might make $150 all-in your first year, but at the cost of routine 80+ hour weeks. You're below the bottom of the totem pole; people above you shit on you because they can or because they're inattentive and inconsiderate. The work is not stimulating; after your first few deals it just feels like more of the same.
All that being said, you can wind up with a $300k (yes, not every place, but at some places ...) job offer 9 months after you graduate school. Whether you want a public or private market job in equity or credit, a lean shop where you get a lot of responsibility and autonomy or more of a factory where you're just another cog in the machine, a b-school feeder or a stay-as-long-as-you-can-make-it place ... BB/EB IBD puts you on that path.
That goes for the analyst position. The same can be said to a lesser extent about the summer analyst program. The optionality is unrivaled by any other internship. Ultimately the decision comes down to whether you know for sure that you want the [PE Fund] credit gig after school. If you have any doubt, you should lean away and get the best banking internship you can. It will let you recruit for the broadest range of opportunities.
My answer would be different if your [PE Fund] offer weren't in IG credit. The [PE Fund] credit internship does convert to FT, but it's a bit niche and won't position you well to recruit for the MF PE analyts programs or the few big HFs that recruit. It will also have a mixed reception for FT banking recruiting; some people will be impressed that you got in the door at [PE Fund], while others will wonder why you didn't just do banking if that's what your goal actually was.
Either way, congrats on the offers so far. For your upcoming interviews, I'd be sure to work in the fact that you have offers already. It's important to be careful in discussing them; if you're too blasé about a buy-side internship compared to the other BB role, interviewers aren't going to take you seriously and the 'why banking' question takes on a whole new light.
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a) This is where it's a toss-up, and I still favor the IBD position. Reading your additional posts, the fact that you have a sophomore IBD internship as well as a (potential) junior one at a BB bank means you're going to get all kinds of love during the FT IBD cycle. MS and Evercore in particular will like you (not that other banks won't). If you got no other offers and took your mid-tier BB for this summer, make sure that you actively keep your network updated over the summer so that by week 6/7 as the accelerated recruiting invitations go out, you get scheduled.
b) No, not by any means. I have seen Lev Fin guys from lower BB banks go to all the MF PE shops, some great special situations HFs, and then obviously the big credit funds.
c) Read my front-paged blog post: "David and Goliath."
d) No, I wouldn't. BX is the only premier buy-side firm to have a longstanding and well-respected internship program across all divisions, and that's a result of their strong commitment to the analyst program. KKR and TPG adding PE analyst programs is new to the past 3-5 years. Bain's is a bit older. None of them run as rigorously screened, well-exposed summer programs as BX. The firm's name on your resume will open doors.
I have seen lots of interesting FT placement out of BX's summer programs, both from people who didn't get the return offer and those who did but wanted something else. A kid who summered in RE PE went to Evercore M&A. Another from RE PE went to PWP. One who summered in RE PE went to Cadre (Kushner/William's new startup). One who summered in BAAM went to a F500. A kid who summered in Park Hill went to a $10b+ hedge fund. One who summered in M&A went to Qatalyst. One who summered in M&A went to Greenhill, then a midsized but well-performing event-driven HF. This is all from across a few years.
Megafund vs. Top IBD Group (Originally Posted: 12/02/2010)
I am in desperate need of some help. I am currently a senior in undergrad, and have signed a FT BB IBD offer in a sponsors group at a top bank GS/MS/JPM. I chose this group because I hope to move to a megafund after my time as an analyst. My offer has been signed.
Last week I was emailing all of my contacts to wish them a Happy Thanksgiving. A VP at a PEI top 10 largest firm responded today saying that they had a spot open for someone in my position and asked if I was interested.
I am definitely interested, but have already signed an offer. I think that comping from a top sponsors group i will still be able to place into a megafund at the end of the day, but it would be great to skip those analyst years. Plus, my group works with this fund daily. If I interviewed at the PE fund I would run the risk of my bank finding out.
What do I do?
Tough call. I wouldnt take the risk, unless the PE guy is aware you signed the offer and would have to renege for him. Tell him your situation, and if he doesnt care, go straight for the gold. The IB may hate you, but mainly out of jealousy.
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Interview.
I would also tell the VP. This is too close for comfort. If the VP doesn't care then go for it.
I would recommend full disclosure with the PE fund. If they found out after the fact, it could impact relations between the two firms. They might not care at all about 'stealing you', but it might not be worth the hassle. Either way, I would "quietly and confidentially" explain to them the situation and how you are very interested in learning more about the opportunity.
If they shy away after hearing the details, then there's nothing to worry about. And if they decide to proceed, then it's their decision.
I don't think the megafund offer is an "automatic" by any means in a post-BB role. If you honestly want to end up there, it's worth the shot to give it your best now. But don't do anything rash and don't do anything dishonest.
Sounds like you have a very good set of problems to worry about. Congrats either way.
i think you should consider backing out of your IB offer and accept a megafund offer...
"A few months ago I was talking to another MBA student, a very talented man, about 30 years old from a great school with a great resume. I asked him what he wanted to do for his career, and he replied that he wanted to go into a particular field, but thought he should work for McKinsey for a few years first to add to his resume. To me that's like saving sex for your old age. It makes no sense." - Warren Buffett
As long as the megafund is fully aware of your status, you should be fine.
Just don't expect to ever work at the other bank again.
I've seen people back out and its a tough decision, but do what you think is right.
That is a fantastic quote MR
People on this board can be really silly sometimes.
Pursue the fund offer as hard as possible. Banks don't care if some random analysts signs and then doesn't come. You're not that important. The idea that you will "impact relations between the firms" is preposterous. Anyone who has worked at a firm knows that analyst hiring decisions are completely trivial.
The OP should pursue the PE opp discreetly and with full disclosure to the PE firm. One analyst reneging won't impact a bank with a large analyst class in the slightest - but if the PE opp doesn't pan out and the bank finds out about this - things can go south really quickly.
Agree with it being a sensitive situation. Disagree with the person that said the bank is just jealous, no one gives 2 shits about you. You're about as inter-changable as a roll of toilet paper. Its just pain in the ass when you sit down to take a shit and now you bought a brand new bag of 8 rolls from Duane Reade yesterday and come to find out, the Duane Reade cashier never put it in your bag.
WHy am I the only one that notices that YOU DONT HAVE AN OFFER. If you did, then maybe you would have this problem, but you dont have an offer.
Personally, I dont think there is any harm in interviewing. First off, bankers and PE sponsors have much more interesting stuff to talk about than the turd they intend on hiring for the next 2 years, before flushing him down the toilet. Second, even if by some miraculous series of events it does come out, you can naively tell the bank you've been networking with this guy for some time and have been begging him for an interview and didn't want to be rude since he finally got you one. You can tell the PE guy that your heart is really in PE and ur very interested in this opposrunity Secondly, you know alot of people who have signed with banks and have subsequently had their offers pulled in the last 2 years, so you dont think its very prudent to sign with a bank and take for granted that you will in fact have a job come graduation.
Like I said, work on getting the offer first. Then come back on here, when you've got a real decision to make.
^^ +1
Totally agree with the above - why the fuck would you be worried about interviewing? It's not as if the PE guy is going to email your bank and let them know you came in. You think the bank gives a shit about you? There are 500,000 kids out there - probably half on this forum that would gladly take your IB gig should you choose to reneg. Face it - you're not going to be curing cancer, you are going to be binding pitch books and linking excel sheets together. Do what is best for you - if you can get into PE early in the game, fuck the bank (and ensuing mind-numbing work to follow) and become a dealmaker out of college. Pretty simple brother.
Exactly. Because joining a PE as an analyst from college, or even after two years at a BB does not entail almost completely linking excel sheets and mindlessly doing due-diligence just to have the deal go down in flames after a year.
And yeah - you're going to be a total "deal-maker" out of college.
Ok... and?
Um... I dont think he was suggesting it would be any different in PE directly out of out of UG, he was saying you're completely expendable / interchangable.
Agree with Marcus and Jimmy, I came straight out of undergrad to PE and definetly do a lot of bs work but also get exposure to some interesting deals. Granted, no one gives two shits about my opinion on deals but they at least take the time to make sure i grasp what is conceptually going on. But i would for sure take the interview and worst comes to worst you still have the BB offer...
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