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PIMCO, despite Bill Gross has left...
PIMCO is a top-down shop. I could be wrong, but this probably means credit research people are treated like crap, or 2nd class citizens at the very least.
haha. this is within portfolio management. credit research deliver ideas to PM's to make trades, def. not 2nd class but rather very very front office
Don't be so dismissive as the guy makes a valid point. Newsflash- you can be a second class citizen even if you're front office! Look at the heavy hitters at PIMCO: IIRC they are all macro guys meaning a credit research person is unlikely to ever be a big shot caller or even make it to PM (I remember hearing that there are clear cut research/pm tracks there that don't overlap). So if you want to do credit research forever you'd be fine or if you're ok jumping ship to make pm then that works too. Usually the jump from research analyst to pm in equities is easier and more proven. That said I think it's more about whether you're and equities or debt guy...
Equity analyst to PM is not easier nor more proven than credit. I don't know how you even jumped to that conclusion...
Weren't most fundamental equity PMs research analysts at one point in their careers? I think fixed income PMs have more diverse backgrounds.
Perhaps I should've replaced easier and proven with more structured/defined career progression. Take the proportion of fundamental equity pm's that were equity analysts at some point and that number is really really high - I'm sure there are fundamental equity pm's that started at traders but not many. Whereas on the fixed income side many pm's started as strats, quant analysts, traders and you usually only see fundamental research analysts become pm's in high yield or another credit like product and I'm saying this as a debt guy who prefers it. It's hard either way but as the other poster alluded to there's not the same clear path in both asset classes so if you are agnostic between them and want an easy path to follow do equity but know you'll have to be more creative about your career jumps in credit. There are also many more credit shops that have seperate credit research and pm tracks that don't intersect vs. equity though equity has the dreaded central research function...PIMCO is an extreme example of this. Neither is better or worse but it comes down to what you enjoy looking at. Not absurd to have both offers as its all fundamental analysis...if you had a rates or fx offer that'd be more odd
While you're right that making the jump from analyst --> PM is not easier in equity than in credit, I am inclined to believe it happens more often (and I personally have seen it happen a few times) because of the fact that there are more equity funds than credit funds. At least at my last shop, a top AM, the fixed income team was very lean, and there were at least double the PMs on the equity side. I more frequently saw equity analysts beginning to manage internal sleeves of money, which I didn't see (or was just completely unaware of) in credit.
Makes sense
These are quite different opportunities and I'd be surprised if anyone was making a choice between these two. That said, both are great seats. I'd make the decision based off of location, firm culture, and asset class preference.
I would go with T. Rowe, only out of fear of potentially getting the 'credit guy' label that seems to carry a bit of a stigma (to which I have no idea why). Also, everyone I know at T.Rowe is pretty chill--seems like a good culture minus the whole Baltimore thing.
Its funny because I always think that there is a stigma for being known as an 'equity guy'. The quality of people that I have met in credit, on average, have been more impressive than what I've seen from the equity side.
But I agree with you on T.Rowe. Very laid back spot where you can learn in a friendly environment. But c'mon-
Baltimore over Newport Beach? Not even a fair fight
That's exactly what I was thinking. Seems to be a steeper learning curve in credit. I do have both offers believe it or not
So your offers are for their MBA internship then? TROW doesn't really hire FT except out of their internship program, whereas PIMCO has been less rigid, and probably more now given recent turmoil. For me personally, I'd go with TROW and it's not really that close, but to each their own.
thanks very much. For credit - do you think the skillset is relevant to private equity at all?
Dude you have great choices that are the exit ops in and of themselves (I gues climbing the ladder to PM by jumping ship is the exit op). A word of advice...you've got to be passionate about investing to succeed in any asset class, but given you're asking about PE it seems like you have more research to do. Even I know as an asset mgmt guy that you go do IB to do PE. Personally I think public investing is way more exciting and the drawn out nature of PE is too slow for me...you should really sit down to figure out what you're most passionate about as you have some great offers and not worry so much about the exit ops. Can't go wrong either way.
it should be a pretty easy decision based on your personal interest in equities vs fixed income. both have very good reputations (despite the Gross debacle) in their respective areas of strength. outside of that, consider the culture of the two firms. from what i've gathered, it seems like TROW has a better culture than what i've heard from those at PIMCO. also, lifestyle is a big issue since you'll be in the office at 5am at PIMCO - not something you'd want if you are single..
The research guys come in a little later- like 5:30/6 :)
But lifestyle?!? Really?!?! TRowe aint exactly in NYC lol.
Newport Beach >>>> Baltimore
Waking up @5am to 70 degree weather and palm trees >>> Waking at @7am to 40 degree's and gun shots
Being in between San Diego and LA >>> Being in between Philly and DC
Average looking girl in Newport >>> Best looking girl in all of Maryland
Assuming you got offers at both, huge congrats! They are both top notch IM jobs that any MBA would drool over.
They are very different. If you are PASSIONATE about stocks and can't imagine doing anything else, T Rowe is the way to go. They are a top shop, great culture, very stable, and awesome work-life balance. The major downside of course is that Baltimore sucks ass. PIMCO in contrast has a brutal culture. You will be in the office at 5 AM and work like a slave. Their culture is much more in line with NYC banking than typical AM. However, Newport Beach is amazing, basically heaven on earth. Perfect weather, beaches, and the women there will put NYC women to utter shame. Credit research also tends to draw from a more eclectic background than equity. I know 2 people from my school who will be working at PIMCO credit: one worked at the federal reserve bank and the other did banking+PE in Asia before b-school.
I work at a close competitor to these two and would consider them to be roughly equal in reputation (don't know enough people at either to generalize more than that). Beyond focusing on a few random people's first impressions, you need to focus on 1. Whether you want credit or equity (this is a very big part and you should have a view on this) 2. Whether you care about one location over another longer term (can you picture yourself in either city for the rest of your career?), and how you like the people you met with (what are the PMs backgrounds, what do your contacts say about the role, day to day, advancement opps, how big of dicks the PMs are, etc).
My comments are mostly geared to HY credit vs equity as I am less familiar with IG. If you'll be focusing more on HY I wouldn't think about it being much different than focusing on equity at T Rowe, just dealing with shittier companies and layering in another layer of complexity.
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