After stumbling across this article it got me to thinking about how many women work in finance, and how many women enjoy finance. According to the article listed above women are becoming more and more interested in learning about finance and managing their money properly.
When I was networking for several high finance jobs, I rarely came across women, and wanted to find out if everyone thinks that high finance is still a boys club? I have met only two women who went to IB and then switched into a HF, but I did just start networking this January.
If you think high finance (IB, PE, HF, S&T, Consulting) is still a "boys club" do you think it will change soon? Women are performing better in school then men. There are a lot of very smart and talented women, but it seems they are rarely interested in high finance.
Thoughts?
There's something seriously emotionally wrong with a woman who wants in on that
would you mind expanding on that?
Women are designed to be nurturing, not corporate hags working 80 hours. Would you marry a girl who works in a high-stress environment surrounded by men?
You got married at what, 22. How about you don't pretend to know what women want.
I have worked with women who were doing the nurture and grind routine. Their husbands started to call and text at 5 wondering where they were. It was actually kind of sad to see every 5 minutes their phone would go off. If they didn't respond you would hear a constant buzzing sound. When they had more children they soon left for jobs with better hours that they found on maternity leave. They were good at their jobs which sucked for us.
grow up goldie
Agreed...but there's something seriously wrong with ANYONE who wants in on high finance.
At least I'm fully cognizant of how much the Army and my parents fucked me up.
I don't mean they're bad people. I just mean they're hormonally imbalanced and will be unhappy and unhealthy in the long term. Men and women have different roles. Listen to this:
http://fatburningman.com/john-gray-phd-how-to-boost-testosterone-keep-y…
[quote="Wu_Tang Financial"women are becoming more and more interested in learning about finance and managing their money properly.[/quote]
This is just called personal finance and is more bookkeeping. It's like learning about no load funds and stuff.
But what you allude to later in your post.
Are there very smart women - Emphatically Yes. Women on average are smarter than men, but we're not talking about these women. I still don't think finance is a huge attraction to women, it's not even to men. It is essentially a dick measuring contest, so even if a woman competes what does she have to win. She's not going to get married, or will do so later. She is going to be burning the candle at both ends and will not see herself as happy or satisfied.
I don't see it as wrong to have each gender(yes there are 2 genders) pursue what they want to do. Have you looked at the number of women with Phd's in Psychology, they vastly outnumber the men. Inversely what does this say about men, should we have HR quotas to fill those spots? You can't look percentages in population and expect them to be equally represented and distributed in every job function. People ultimately do and pursue areas in which they are interested. I think right now women are being marketed to by the shrill Sheryl Sandberg to "lean in", as if to say if you don't do what a man does you are being oppressed? It makes no sense, and in conclusion if you as a woman define yourself by what a man is, than you already lost.
Good response/ I understand the article was talking about personal finance and not specifically a high finance career, but I was more asking a question about women in high finance.
All for letting people pursue what they want to.
Plenty of women in finance. I've worked in groups where women were the MDs and VPs.
Finance is a relationship game and women understand interpersonal interaction very well. I think a lot of women get intimidated by mostly men in finance, but I think there is a lot of value they can add.
"Women on average are smarter than men"
The core thesis of your post assumes a couple of things which I would argue are not "fact" but are statistically dependant on the population you describe, and the definitions you use (I.e. The studies you use to generalise these findings are an open question).
Not that I necessarily disagree, but you cannot make a blanket statement such as 50% of the population are smarter than the other half, without a caveat on the studies you are referring to, and a specific measure you are referring to "smarter".
Much research has been done on "intelligence" and it has still remained controversial. Relatively less on the comparison of male and female(let alone "gender" considerations).
Look a politically correct statement in your country may mean women are 'smarter' than men, (Whatever that means), but you should really caveat with what country you are referring to (unless you claim to know this 'fact' universally).
But at the end of the day, a guy could claim he was in fact identifying as female, then what bro?
Put differently, my statement that women are smarter than men is true for most studies. If you use IQ as a factor and a standard distribution model, women are in the middle. If you do the research, and this can be as simple as google, men have a higher preponderance in both tail ends of the data set. Simply but we have more idiots, and also more genius's. I am anything but PC, just look at all my posts. I'm glad you called me out on my post because I didn't explain it as fully as intended to, I just ran out of steam in my explanation, which happens 75% of my time in WSO.
If you look at certain other data sets, and the rise of women in the workforce, you look at statistics on happiness and this had steadily declined since 1970. Now, how accurate or objective is measuring happiness? I'm not sure, but this is self reported on many studies so I'll have to take that at its "word".
So are women becoming more interested in finance, sure. I see no problem with letting women pursue work that makes them happy. However when you look at the big picture, there are traits that favor certain careers over others. Not to agree that women have a, for the most part different, INNATE, skill set is PC. Because of course men and women are the same biologically except for our genitals. Can this skillset be learned, of course which is why I capitalized the word innate. As an example I am much better at writing and a people person but I made it a priority to learn maths and finance. So while my "nature" wasn't there my nurture(self taught) was. When you look at one of the socialist utopia countries like Sweden with full gender equality and paid paternal and maternal leave, you see an even greater divide among the sexes, or what happens to be traditional gender roles in jobs. So when given absolute freedom for job choice women and men end up picking jobs that suit them best.
The FT recently ran an article that discussed a study showing kids of differing genders had different "job" preferences at the age of 4.
https://www.ft.com/content/0147eed0-1608-11e7-80f4-13e067d5072c
High finance is a boys' club because men, on average, are willing to work more hours on less personally gratifying work than women, on average.
if i were a boss, i would not give a single f...k about gender, heck you can even be a transexual robot, all what i would care about is the green you bringing, like what mobsters say . "you're only as good as what you earn"
I think women can only raise up in finance if and only when our political leaders are women. As simple as that. If you looked at mostly Asia and Middle East, most of their world leaders are men. Especially in China, Japan, Korea and most of Southeast, most business leaders are men. Finance is a relationship business and people tend to work only with people who are similar to them. Let me tell you one reason, it will be difficult for women to be successful in Finance especially in Asia - prostitution.
It is no secret that all the finance people in Asia especially engaged in some sort of prostitution. You always take clients for drinks, endless KTV sessions, massive groping, drug-fused orgy fests, high end brothels, and anything that you can think of. And most men (from late 20 to 60s) enjoy engaging in those activities (esp Korean bankers are really into this). And people tends to trust people whom they hang out with in these settings. It is a part of the bonding experience.
There are some VP and MD levels, female investment bankers in Singapore and Hong Kong, whom would engage in these activities with their clients and co-workers but they are exceptions, not the norm. So yes, perhaps women in Asset Management industry (stock brokering, mutual funds, quant work - that requires no client interactions), this might be possible. But IBD and PE, I don't really see that at all.
So net net the answer is: - Women increasing in high finance? Yes, perhaps in research, quant trading, middle office and back office roles - For intensive relationship building roles like IBD and PE, probably not.
Or unless, they are sleeping their ways to get clients account - if you count that then "Yes - I guess". I do have seen a lot of Asian female bankers sleeping their way to get client accounts - mainly in Institutional Equity Sales.
Just my personal opinion. You don't need to take my words for it.
This might be the dumbest thread I've seen on here in a while.
Yep
agree, was going to add it into weekly newsletter but then i read through all the comments.. uff
This is nothing surprising. Gather a bunch of insecure finance guys who think their jobs make them masculine and this is what you get.
yeah this conversation got a little out of hand...
Part of the problem with these equality issues that you simply can't force people to be interested in a topic to the same degree. I understand for example that there's a gap of women in computer science, but I personally think it's selfish to try to force people into doing something they don't want to do just because it makes you feel good about yourself.
If you need a rush of moral superiority I suggest attending a TED talk or evangelical church service rather than trying to change how other people act.
Nowadays they provide equal competition to men.
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