WSO Podcast | E249: Getting Married Young - Intern Struggles - Quit Coffee? | WSO Weekly Wrapup
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WSO Podcast Episode 249 Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Welcome to the WSO weekly wrap up where I talk with my team about the five most trending discussions in the Wall Street Oasis community. Enjoy! All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of The Weekly. What is this again? The weekly wrap up. What do we call this?
Matthew: [00:00:20] The weekly wrap up.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:23] The weekly wrap up, we got three top topics that are trending a little more fun this week. Matt, take it away.
Matthew: [00:00:30] Sure, so first one we see here this one's I guess right up our alley here being a younger crew of guys. You know, we got a season vet with Pat to give us the insight here. But first one, trending is getting married young. Is that the best? So we'll kick it off here, Pat. Obviously you're married a little bit older than us. How's the married life treating you? What's your two cents? If you could go back to be 20, what's would you do it all over again?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:51] Well, I got married later. So I got married when I was like 31. So it's a little bit I don't know if I'd agree getting married young is the best.
Matthew: [00:01:01] You got to said, What's young? What's not young? Think we got to set the that's how we start this…
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:06] I think anything 20 to 25 you know before 25 I think is pretty young to get married. I think most people would agree with that and then 25 to or 26 to like 30 is still a little bit on the young side. But but pretty standard and then I think you get over 30. It's starting to get a little bit above average and then after 35 is kind of waiting a while. Right, but some people get married in their 40s, 50s. It doesn't have to think. That's the thing that I'd say is like, is it best? It could be best for certain people based on personality, right? Just based on personality. Because some people are super mature and they know themselves really well and they're young, 20. Other people don't really know what they want. They want to date more people figure out like the type of person that's compatible with them and they're changing. And so what do you guys think?
Matthew: [00:01:51] Yeah, I mean for me it's a very complex question just because for instance there's pros and cons obviously but it depends how you look at it, right? You get married young. Does that also entail like starting a family young? if so then you're probably the way I see it is sign a ways that not the right term. You're forgoing a lot of free time early on in your life that you're hoping to get back in the back half, right? So if you have kids a little bit younger and have a family a little bit younger getting married. Then naturally maybe when you're 55, you're have a have much more freedom as opposed to someone then maybe waiting till they're 60, 65, right? So I think you have to factor that in take then your career into perspective too. Obviously if you're starting young, you're gonna have to put that time there so you have enough time to do like the 70, 80 hour work weeks in investment banking. So there's a lot to it. I think, though, like a personal perspective to your point, Pat. Yes, changing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:45] Your ages, guys, so people know. So I'm 43, I've been married for a decade and three kids. Matt is?
Matthew: [00:02:52] 29, never married but yes in a relationship but nonetheless.
Nabil: [00:02:57] I'm like 25 going to turn 26.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:59] Oh, we got a good spread here. So it's like..
Matthew: [00:03:03] Definitely, so yeah for me at least I've recognize like those initial years like 22, 23 comparing that mindset to now. I think like I'm a completely different person even just on my outlook, the way I treat myself, people around me. So I think the the point here when we were kind of prepping for this conversation there's a lot of development that you're not even recognizing. You won't be able to see until you look back, like five years, right? You don't see it when you're going through those years 23, 24, 25 that you're changing much.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:32] Yeah, I mean he just turned 18. He thinks he's, he knows exactly who he is.
Matthew: [00:03:37] But you won't, you don't recognize that until you think you look back. And for whatever reason there's like this, there's this. The way I see it for me it's like this, almost like this hump. You get over where it's like you look back and you do see the changes. But the little aspects I put on that is I feel like that is a feeling that we have our whole life. So the same way I feel like you probably look back in your 30s and be like, you know, I'm different than I was, when I was 31, 32.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:00] Oh yeah, because I was when I was single, I was like a maniac. But in terms of like in terms of like personality though. I felt like by 30, 31 like I don't think I've changed that much in terms of personality and like what I want.
Matthew: [00:04:12] How about outlook on life, though? You think that's changed a little bit? I mean, introducing kids that probably changes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:18] Yeah, but I knew I wanted a kid. I always knew I wanted kids and stuff like that. So outlook on life I don't think has changed that dramatically. Yeah, I mean it just you grow with the person you're in a relationship with to in terms of like you got to find the right person. And so I think rushing into something just because you want to be married because I think that usually lends to you. Having just an imbalanced relationship like you need to be confident in yourself set like working on yourself so that you can bring bring value to the relationship. And that means like confidence to the relationship. So you're always like you're not like just like needy, that's from both sides. Like I think there's a lot of like imbalance that happens when males or females come to a relationship with like really wanting to be in a relationship and needing to be in a relationship rather than just being in a relationship because they want, because they decide to be in one.
Matthew: [00:05:11] Yeah, another way of saying that and I used to always say is if you're looking for it, you're not going to find the type of find that those people that are really looking for it. Obviously yes, you can even come across it but I find the more those organic type relationships where something comes across and you know, you're like this makes sense. I think that's where there's most success.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:31] What about like the dating apps? Everything's changed since I've been in the, Nabil? I mean, I met my wife on match but like it's even grown even more. Nabil, what about you?
Nabil: [00:05:39] Uh, no. Never used a dating app. Yeah it's pretty bad.
Matthew: [00:05:45] It's yeah, it's a nice way like to form introductions again. If you go in with the mindset though of like. Okay, just because I have this introduction with someone now it's like this is the person you're kind of pushing it forward. That's going to be a recipe for disaster. I think if you just use it as a tool for introductions but then still keep a very open mindset, it could be useful.
Nabil: [00:06:06] What do you mean like?
Matthew: [00:06:08] Yeah, like so I mean like apps like that as like a as a way is like just because you're introduced that person doesn't mean there's, you know, you should be pushing anything further than that simply just like. Hey, this platform facilitated an introduction but that's all it still really is. People I find are hopping on that and are still trying to push for a relationship. At the end of the day, you've just met someone virtually. You can't be gunning for that nor is that going to be established all through that platform.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:31] It reminds me, my buddy here. Who like always is like tries to like give pedal away. Like right away he's like will you be my girlfriend? Like within date like three. I'm like, what are you doing, man?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:40] Why do you why are you even like asking that? It's because I feel like it's. He's very like emotional and right brained and he like feels like that need to like. He like wants to give that. He like feels like it's and I think it hurts him.
Matthew: [00:06:56] Another thing though too, in terms of kind of bringing it back to the topic of being too young or not. One thing that I've seen value on is actually you kind of do learn a bit more of yourself and what you're looking for based off of experiences from past relationships I find. So it's I've actually found a lot of gratitude almost to the point where it's like you're happy of those previous ones because you do want to take pieces from it. This is what I like in a relationship. This is what I need. This is so it's like you kind of bring that and that comes with experience. And naturally time brings experience, right? Again, so not to say it doesn't work because there's obviously situations where high school sweethearts get married and you know, everything's great. It's just again I think based on people's circumstances. And one thing think…
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:36] If you look at the statistics actually.
Matthew: [00:07:38] Statistics don't say good things right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:40] The statistics actually say that getting married older is best and getting married to someone educated is best.
Matthew: [00:07:47] Yes, and I was going to actually tie that in. I think because the way I see it now is like a true fulfilling relationship has to be tied into every aspect in your life. And what I'm trying to get at is, for instance if you get married really early on, for instance like from a career perspective. When I was 20 years old I had no idea I'd be working at Wall Street Oasis like in the position that I'm at obviously, right. So it's but now obviously the role has gotten to a point where we're super busy, obviously working, working hours. And if I was still in that relationship with or in that mindset of a 20 year old. I didn't anticipate myself putting in the hours I'm working, the time commitment, all that stuff. So if I had someone that was married to that was also under the assumption that. That's going to be my work style or my balance and now that's changed ten years later, it's not fair for them. And that's how, I guess disagreements start and that's where it's important to. I guess in my opinion wait a bit have that career situated, you know that what your life is going to look like going forward or at least what you're looking for that way then you can kind of build on to that. So that's my two cents, I prefer to wait a little bit. I think there's value in it but don't want to say it hasn't worked for other people that have obviously gotten married early as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:50] It can work out and it's I think it's the maturity. How mature and what culture are you into and what culture is your family and like that type of the support of your family.
Matthew: [00:08:59] The best way to wrap this up. I think is realistically any relationship is work. It's hard work to to keep a healthy and happy relationship. So it doesn't matter when you get started. You got to put the work in a successful relationship. Takes work if you put the work in, I think it'll be successful, I think the main takeaway here. But anyways, let's get back to another topic here a little bit more into the business side of things here. Obviously with the summer months kind of getting going here. Internships have started with a lot of banks and we've been seeing a lot of threads talking specifically around some internship struggles. And so that's something we commonly see obviously for interns getting started with a bank. So I guess Pat, let's kick this one off here. We have an intern here saying he's just started at a bulge bracket, feels very overwhelmed and struggling and is kind of asking for help. So any guidance you have for interns that feel that way in their first initial weeks?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:47] Yeah, I think it's just important to realize. I think there's a couple good comments that, the everyone feels that way there's very few interns that are just like coasting through and not confused. Just try to stick with it, ask good questions. It's really more about your attitude and not your technical like knowledge. And so asking the dumb questions is early is much better than waiting till the end of the internship or even like when you start full time like you want. The whole point of the internship is to ask them questions. Think of it that way so like they don't expect you to know anything. And if you're genuinely curious, if you're not asking the same questions over and over again by taking good notes and doing as much research you can on your own, that's better. So like writing down words and phrases you don't know, looking it up later, you know, utilize our free resources section. Do whatever you need to do just to study as much as you can.
Matthew: [00:10:40] I think that's a really good best practice, Pat. That's actually something I did remember in a previous internship long, long time ago. It's where I had, I remember I had a notepad. I would take your phrases and this was more when I was on a sales and trading desk. You're hearing so many crazy phrases and that's just how they talk with each other. And obviously you can't pick up on that but something that I remember I used to do was obviously market hours conclude at 4:00. That's when the desks there kind of calms down. But then I would go and sit with a trader and say. Hey, can you mentioned for instance like block sizes or all these different firms.
Matthew: [00:11:13] Yeah, all these terms that as a university college kid, second third year have no idea what the heck is going on but you do want to learn all that stuff. So it was something where I would go spend 30 minutes from 4 to 4:30, sit down with a trader I had a good relationship with and I would ask him all these terms. And at the time I thought, that's good practice. Like I'm doing a good thing here but I didn't realize years after because I have good relationships with these people, I connect with them still. And I was talking with one of them and he said, I remember you just because you asked so many questions. And that's something that stood out amongst other interns. And so that's very early on, I learned the hour of like asking questions that skill set in itself. And I think the idea for these interns to remember is what you mentioned, Pat. Everyone's feeling this way like, don't look around the room and think you're the only one feeling that way. Just because people may portray that they're understanding it. If you think realistically, you're sitting beside another second, third year student, similar program. They're not learning other things that you haven't learned. It's not as if they are this like the absolute geniuses of the world. So they're feeling the same way. I think it's like you said, showing that you're actually trying to learn, making that effort, asking questions. I think that's the best way to kind of do it. You're not expected to be the savior to the firm when they're onboarding interns. It's mainly seen as a, as an educational thing for you guys. Of course, you're helping out with certain things but it's mainly the purpose is this for you guys to learn a whole bunch of stuff about that program there.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:34] Nabil, what do you think? Yeah, what's your take?
Nabil: [00:12:36] Yeah, I think that's good. I had like a different experience, like my first firm I joined was understaffed because a few people had left, so I didn't like if I had to ask questions like there's no one to answer that. That's what happened like, all my seniors were like busy. So then I just got dropped in the deep end of the pool pretty much and just learned to do stuff on my own. But then it depends like if, yeah, if there's people like willing to talk and answer questions like, yeah, it makes sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:05] Yeah, the hard part is finding the right time to ask if the analysts are drowning in already really busy. But yeah, like late, late at night. Once the seniors go home, there's some downtime there waiting for a turn. You can say, Hey, do you mind if I grab you for ten minutes and just have a list of questions? Boom all at once. That's the best way to do it and then that way you get all your questions answered at once and hopefully the light bulbs will start going off.
Matthew: [00:13:25] Exactly, okay well let's hit up the third topic here. This one actually like quite a bit. As I was mentioning earlier on, I think I'm a big coffee bowl here, so one of the threads was the quick coffee or to not quick coffee. I personally myself guys, coffee is my lifeline for work. I think it's pretty obvious when I, in the mornings when I haven't had my cup of coffee. So I myself am actually one that has four cups a day, two in the morning, two in the afternoon, then maybe an espresso at night if I'm going out. But what's your guys' morning routines? You guys drinking coffee? What are you doing for energy in the morning?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:57] Nabil, What do you do?
Nabil: [00:13:59] I mean, I used to be like you like drink like tons of coffee. But then I started reading that. I mean, not reading it's like it gets to a point where you need like more and more and more. So I just decided one fine day, I'm like going to somehow reduce it. And then, yeah, now I just don't drink unless I need to, unless I'm going out for like a run or something.
Matthew: [00:14:19] So do you have anything anymore?
Nabil: [00:14:22] Yeah, I have tea now. It's a little lower like those of caffeine, a little sweet and like. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's better but like you get used to it over time.
Matthew: [00:14:34] Did you find when you were tapering off the coffee, did you find struggles? Because I've heard some horror stories from people that were in my situation. Either there's a like having some withdrawal symptoms is a real thing. I don't want to sound like a junkie by any means but I've had people say they have like had obviously migraines even some sweats at times like if they're not having it. So I'm kind of a little bit worried of when if I have to ever kind of reduce my coffee drinking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:01] Oh, yeah. When I had a baby, I remember it was Noel was kind of sick. So I just stopped coffee for a few days and I was in the hospital with the baby and I'm like, I don't know what's wrong with me. Like, I was…
Matthew: [00:15:11] Like, you thought you needed to go on the bed?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:13] Yeah, I was like I felt like I'm like, oh, it's just because of the baby, the adrenaline and whatever. And like then I realized I'm like, I haven't had coffee in two days. I was nauseous, I was like sweating, I was having totally…
Nabil: [00:15:28] The touch? Yeah, sets in like you can't do shit.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:32] And I felt not I felt actually nauseous. And I was like, Oh, my and I realized like if two more than like a day and a half goes by without a hit.
Matthew: [00:15:42] Yeah, so I've been hearing now even guys don't know if you have people have been drinking matcha. Now I had some friends that have tried to pivot to matcha. I personally can't I don't, I can't do the taste. I've tried it, It's just not for me. But they say it's a great alternative for coffee.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:00] Yeah, I mean, I think the nice thing about tea. It's a little bit slower of a spike, right? And so I've noticed sometimes if I don't get a lot of sleep but I have a strong coffee like I usually do one really strong iced coffee in the morning. If I do that, usually sometimes if I'm tired like I fade faster. Yeah, versus I feel like tea sometimes can give you. Sometimes I'll do like a little bit of tea in the afternoon if I really need it. It's like an extra little mini boost. Yeah, but I try to stay away from like too super strong. I have a really strong. The iced coffee drink is really strong in the morning, so I try to stay away from that in the afternoon so I can actually sleep.
Matthew: [00:16:39] I see. Well, remember for me what I would do is, as a little tidbit here. I don't know if you guys do it in the states there, Pat. But Tim Sometime not Tim Sorry. Mcdonald's has like the dollar coffee in the summer. And so I'll go, yeah, it's either an iced coffee or…
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:57] It's pretty good, right?
Matthew: [00:16:58] It's but then I do like I'll get the extra large because obviously for a buck. I'm like at this point even if I don't drink it all. I mean, I tend to drink it all but nonetheless, gosh, I remember when I was younger and I would do that. Yeah, and I'd get like the extra large and it'd be a hot coffee and on the desk I remember during my internship I'd have like the jitters. But I mean you need that when you're on a sales and trading desk because you need to be on the ball a little bit. But it was like, I remember, I'm okay, this is maybe pushing it a full extra large coffee after lunch. I'm shaking here a bit, but yeah, I'm still standing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:31] Yeah, It's one of how about brands? What's your favorite brand of coffee? What do you drink? Nespresso you said, Is that what you're usually going for?
Matthew: [00:17:37] Yeah, I think so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:38] Shout out to Portrait Coffee. I like, I've ordered £5 bags. I think it's down in Atlanta. What about you, Nabil?
Nabil: [00:17:45] I mean local from the store you can grind whatever. Yeah, it's from local place like Yamans close by and…
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:54] They got like coffee today.
Nabil: [00:17:55] Oh, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:55] They grow it there.
Nabi: [00:17:57] Yeah, they pride themselves on coffee so like I think different.
Matthew: [00:18:02] You guys roast well there’s some really nice blends.
Matthew: [00:18:08] Well what are you buying the beans usually? Are you buying the ground when you say £5?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:12] Yeah, I'm buying the beans. Buying the beans then we have a little grinder. It's really nice coffee snobs. Well, this is good too.
Matthew: [00:18:25] The beans are good. It's a little bit bolder, I find the taste.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:28] You can put it into a like a I don't know, you can put. You can make like a really nice, almost like a latte with it or.
Matthew: [00:18:34] Yeah, exactly or macchiatos.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:37] Or even iced if you throw enough ice, they're strong enough where if you put ice in there it's still really good.
Matthew: [00:18:41] Even like a little bit of ice and water and then the espresso.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:43] Summer's coming everyone get your iced coffee. So I know if David was on here, he'd be like Dunkin Donuts and whatever.
Matthew: [00:18:50] Whenever I go to the US though I do grab myself a dunkin's.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:54] They're up in Toronto yet?
Matthew: [00:18:56] No, we have our own one here. It's called Tim Hortons. Equivalent, It's very similar to like Dunkin. It's just a Canadian version but like we have our ice brews and everything. But I know when I got in Dunkin, when I go to the US, I go to Dunkins and get myself a large ice brew there.
Matthew: [00:19:14] Yeah, exactly but anyways guys. I'm going to actually go myself now and get a coffee before hopping into the afternoon here but I think Greg Conville will be around next week for another weekly wrap up.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:25] Sounds good and quick shout out. There's an interesting discussion in the investment banking forum training. Another one, we didn't have time to talk about an unpaid intern to building a $2 million EBITDA business. So my journey beyond Wall Street, really interesting Q&A. Check that out as well. It's all about like buying an existing business and how he kind of decided how he saved up and was able to kind of transition out of Wall Street and now works for himself for a pretty successful business that's pretty successful, what's traditionally called a boring business, but doing really well for himself.
Matthew: [00:19:53] So the most boring tend to be the safest and best businesses. Slow and steady.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:59] Yeah. All right, guys, talk soon. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. [email protected] and till next time.
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