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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » bankerella's blog
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Should girls groom?
 

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bankerella's picture
bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 12:30pm
Sweat

All right, I know there are some girls lurking here, and I want your two cents. Guys, feel free to chime in with your opinions too, though I'm really hoping that some chicks de-lurk for this question.

Quandary: I've always used the gym at home in the morning when feasible, but now I'm at the point in my career where I can actually start leaving my desk and using the company gym. Let's say I have a 30-50 minute workout and a 5-minute shower.

Now, I know some girls don't sweat at the gym. They are usually the ones in the cute teal wrap tops with charm bracelets and inch-long fingernails. That's not me. If I'm there, I'm there to fucking sweat.

In this situation, would you do either/both of the following things?

  1. Take an additional 15-20 minutes to wash/dry/style hair or leave it sweaty in a ponytail?
  2. Take an additional 5-7 minutes to redo makeup or go bare-faced?

In the past I would have looked at my female peers and done as they did, but none of my peers in the group are female. (Girls might be 40% of top MBA programs, but they are not anywhere near 40% of working MBAs. At this firm, not even 10% of post-MBA hires are chicks. I'm not particularly alarmed by this, but it's sometimes inconvenient to not have another female point of comparison for normative purposes.)

Conflicting issues:

  • I already spend too much time on grooming and want to find a way to decrease the time cost
  • I never want to come across as less than 100% squeaky clean
  • I think it might be weird/uptight to roll back in from the gym in the evening looking like I just spent half an hour on hair and makeup, especially if I'm going to leave for the night shortly thereafter

Assume: Not looking for a relationship, already established credibility in current role, performance reviews truly not biased by hotness or lack thereof (within reason).

I currently spend half an hour or more per day grooming and feel like it would be stupidly expensive (in terms of my opportunity cost per hour) to double that. But I'm also not a big believer in people walking around looking like they just came from the gym. Especially not me. (The guy whose signature is printed on all of our paychecks sits 20 feet from me. And it's a big fucking company.)

Going to the gym at work already means schlepping pants, sneakers, socks, panties, jogging bra, and t-shirt. Doing the full groom would mean lugging a bunch of truly ludicrous shit around with me.... and this is coming from someone whose purse is the size of her hand. It strikes me as pretty absurd to go from that to a f'ing rollaboard just because I want to go to the gym at work. But to be honest, if I saw another person (especially a chick) walking around with sweaty hair and a red face at work, my opinion of their professionalism might dip a little.

Like I said, guys' opinions are valuable here too; the logistical issues are pretty obvious even if you don't personally face the same issues. Would you drop the extra thirty minutes or not? Would you think anything of it if you knew that a coworker did? Or didn't?

See my other WSO blog posts
  • Gym
  • grooming
  • Girls on Wall Street
  • girls
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Comments

Disincentivy's picture

You shower, right? So you are

Disincentivy
      VC
 
 
(Gorilla, 712
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 12:57pm

You shower, right? So you are clean. Hopefully when you shower, you wash your hair. At this point, up in a tidy looking bun and you're all set.

Make up: I am not a fan to begin with. My make up is basically some eye liner. You do not need to go full on primer, foundation, concealer, powder, blush, eyes, cheeks, lips.
A cool shower should rid you of the redness, if not, apply some chamomile cream (takes 3 seconds?), lip gloss, and maybe a lil dab of bronzer?

My opinion is that professionalism has nothing to do with a full made up face and more to do with tidiness, cleanliness and attitude.

From a time management standpoint, a heavier set of squats rather than 2 lighter sets would do. I just saved 4-5 minutes and I can use the extra time to carefully apply my eye liner instead of going out looking all cross eyed and stuff.

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force.

See my WSO blog posts

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rls's picture

This is called making a

rls
      HF
 
 
(Orangutan, 367
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:00pm

This is called making a choice. This is something that only you can appropriately handicap- Is going to the gym mid-day* that important to you? If it is, then you've got to maintain the same professional standard as someone who did not exercise during lunch (or whenever) when you return. In sum, you should look fully professional after your workout, even if it means hauling a bag of supplies/accoutrements for cleaning up. If this is too much of a chore, then move your workout to after work or increase the amount you do before work.

*I assume this is mid-day workout, because if you are leaving for home immediately afterward this would not matter.

Bene qui latuit, bene vixit- Ovid

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anaismalcolm's picture

I am a female who uses the

anaismalcolm
      IB
 
 
(Orangutan, 329
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:15pm

I am a female who uses the gym every day...I leave between 5-6 and don't get back until 7:30-8 (I do fitness competitions so I spend more time than average). I always shower and use the blow dryers at the gym to minimize the sweaty-hair look, but that's it. I don't take my make up off beforehand (if you use good products, it should stay reasonably okay), and it doesn't look amazing after but I only touch up the lips.

I don't think anyone cares as long as you don't smell terrible and your hair is reasonably okay looking (like in a decently brushed ponytail). If you came back with completely undone hair and no make-up, I'd say that's getting into the realm of not okay. And definitely not okay if you don't shower.

With that said, if you are leaving earlier than this and there's any chance a client might come in once you've gotten back, I would spend much more time working on it.

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PrettyBusiness's picture

Definitely depends how much

PrettyBusiness
     
 
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:25pm

Definitely depends how much you sweat. If you sweat a lot, take a shower - dont blow dry, just put it in a tight bun, and do your make up. It won't take long but you'll, a - look much better and b - feel better.

Always in a rush, but never late

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blastoise's picture

put the damn make up on. take

blastoise
      O
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,378
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:47pm

put the damn make up on.

take care of your hair.

this isn't a democracy

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In reply to blastoise
neilol's picture

blastoise: put the damn make

neilol
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 252
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:52pm
blastoise:

put the damn make up on.

take care of your hair.

this isn't a democracy

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TonyPerkis's picture

Here I saw women's grooming

TonyPerkis
      AM
 
(King Kong, 1,619
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:54pm

Here I saw women's grooming and was expecting to hear about trimming the hedges, landing strips, and Brazilian waxes

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

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labanker's picture

Even if there are no girls at

labanker
      PE
 
 
(Orangutan, 333
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:57pm

Even if there are no girls at your firm you can still get a sense of general decorum by looking at the guys and industry you are in. Do the guys wear nice, tailored, slim-fit shirts and quality ties? Is their hair well-coiffed and their shoes sleek and of high quality? Or does everyone dress like Dwight Schrute? Do you work at a megafund in NYC, or at Procter and Gamble in Cleveland?

In general I would keep the make-up light before and after the gym (heavy make-up looks like ass), and yes, you need to blow-dry your hair. You can maybe go for a simple hairstyle (tussled, hair-up look is actually pretty hot), but no wet hair bullshit (this actually applies to guys too). And don't underestimate the power of looking good as a female, regardless of what anyone says. We had a VP in our office when I was an analyst who made it to VP, and subsequently to director, largely because she looked damn good all the time.

Better yet, stop working out mid-day and hit the gym in the morning or at after work. Mid-day is very inefficient.

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In reply to TonyPerkis
Disincentivy's picture

TonyPerkis: Here I saw

Disincentivy
      VC
 
 
(Gorilla, 712
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:59pm
TonyPerkis:

Here I saw women's grooming and was expecting to hear about trimming the hedges, landing strips, and Brazilian waxes

Why do you think she chose that title?
Her mission is accomplished, sir

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force.

See my WSO blog posts

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Nabooru's picture

Well even as a guy I wouldn't

Nabooru
      HF
 
(Gorilla, 689
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 1:59pm

Well even as a guy I wouldn't feel comfortable not taking at least a quick shower after sweating at the gym so I get that...guess I'd pretty much echo what Disincentivy said, now that I think about it. If anything, if I needed more time I'd just up the intensity of the workout and use the time saved to shower/recover/whatever. I guess there's some middle ground between doing nothing and taking way to much time that has to be found that one would be comfortable with, in my opinion.

Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

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MissNG's picture

I think if you are going back

MissNG
      O
 
(Senior Baboon, 191
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:03pm

I think if you are going back to work after the gym you need to look exactly how you did before you left. If not, make sure you go directly home after the gym (maybe some eyeliner and lipgloss in case you bump into someone on your way out) or just get it all over with before your day begins... I think any shortcuts here are an embarrassing moment waiting to happen.

"Dont compromise yourself; you're all you've got" - Janis Joplin

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Soldier of Fortune's picture

this doesn't belong in a

Soldier of Fortune
     
 
(Monkey, 62
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:08pm

this doesn't belong in a finance forum

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pitbul13's picture

Dafuq?! Who asks this? if

pitbul13
     
 
(Senior Baboon, 205
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:10pm

Dafuq?! Who asks this? if you're dirty get clean....
I think I learnt this when I was 3 years old..

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In reply to Soldier of Fortune
Nabooru's picture

Soldier of Fortune: this

Nabooru
      HF
 
(Gorilla, 689
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:10pm
Soldier of Fortune:

this doesn't belong in a finance forum

Says someone who triple-posts all of his threads, lol.

Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

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In reply to Disincentivy
blastoise's picture

Disincentivy: TonyPerkis: H

blastoise
      O
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,378
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:16pm
Disincentivy:
TonyPerkis:

Here I saw women's grooming and was expecting to hear about trimming the hedges, landing strips, and Brazilian waxes

Why do you think she chose that title?
Her mission is accomplished, sir

do you do this? the forum want to know as well as the chat room(they r to wussy to ask )

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In reply to Nabooru
Soldier of Fortune's picture

Nabooru: Soldier of

Soldier of Fortune
     
 
(Monkey, 62
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:23pm
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In reply to blastoise
Disincentivy's picture

blastoise: Disincentivy:

Disincentivy
      VC
 
 
(Gorilla, 712
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:27pm

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force.

See my WSO blog posts

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In reply to Disincentivy
Nabooru's picture

Disincentivy: blastoise:

Nabooru
      HF
 
(Gorilla, 689
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:43pm

Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

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In reply to Nabooru
Disincentivy's picture

Nabooru: Disincentivy: bl

Disincentivy
      VC
 
 
(Gorilla, 712
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:51pm

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force.

See my WSO blog posts

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TNA's picture

Are you trying to get laid at

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,711
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 2:57pm

MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter

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Mr. Hansen's picture

You know how I know you're an

Mr. Hansen
     
 
(Gorilla, 519
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 3:16pm
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Futures Trader Man's picture

I choose option 1

Futures Trader Man
      RE
 
(Orangutan, 318
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 3:17pm

"Well, you know, I was a human being before I became a businessman." -- George Soros

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KhakiPete's picture

I get up at 5:00 and hit the

KhakiPete
      AM
 
(Monkey, 30
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 3:24pm
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In reply to KhakiPete
Futures Trader Man's picture

KhakiPete: I get up at 5:00

Futures Trader Man
      RE
 
(Orangutan, 318
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 3:26pm

"Well, you know, I was a human being before I became a businessman." -- George Soros

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In reply to Futures Trader Man
Senvik's picture

Futures Trader

Senvik
     
 
(Senior Baboon, 187
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 4:15pm

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." - IlliniProgrammer

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BTbanker's picture

Please just do us all a favor

BTbanker
      IB
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,340
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 4:48pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

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Relinquis's picture

Would you start your day at

Relinquis
      RE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 6:19pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

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In reply to Mr. Hansen
bankerella's picture

Mr. Hansen: You know how I

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 7:18pm

See my other WSO blog posts

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In reply to Disincentivy
John Rolfe's picture

Disincentivy: From a time

John Rolfe
      AM
 
(Orangutan, 361
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 8:41pm
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In reply to John Rolfe
Disincentivy's picture

John

Disincentivy
      VC
 
 
(Gorilla, 712
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 8:44pm

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force.

See my WSO blog posts

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In reply to Disincentivy
John Rolfe's picture

Disincentivy: John

John Rolfe
      AM
 
(Orangutan, 361
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 8:57pm
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All American Reject's picture

SQUATZ AND OATZ. Rolfe, more

All American Reject
      CF
 
(Baboon, 105
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 9:50pm
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chicandtoughness's picture

The things you need for a

chicandtoughness
      CS
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 985
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 10:48pm

"Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
Currently: PR/MarComm/IMC, semipro dancer, academiphile, Crafter of Stars

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In reply to chicandtoughness
bankerella's picture

chicandtoughness: The things

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 7/6/12 at 11:33pm

See my other WSO blog posts

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chicandtoughness's picture

I have the worst hair in the

chicandtoughness
      CS
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 985
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 1:00am

"Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
Currently: PR/MarComm/IMC, semipro dancer, academiphile, Crafter of Stars

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In reply to bankerella
canuckmoney's picture

bankerella: Mr. Hansen: You

canuckmoney
      HF
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 1:46am
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mfoste1's picture

@OP are you really

mfoste1
      ST
 
(Gorilla, 603
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 2:48am
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In reply to Disincentivy
slader23's picture

Disincentivy: You shower,

slader23
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 99
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 5:57am

Keep it together and you will go far..

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In reply to Mr. Hansen
cibo's picture

Mr. Hansen: You know how I

cibo
     
 
(Baboon, 168
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 6:23am
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KeepCalm's picture

I would go for the early day

KeepCalm
      IB
 
(Monkey, 54
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 2:59pm
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Relinquis's picture

I'm glad that I'm a man. You

Relinquis
      RE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 8:30pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

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KeepCalm's picture

Useful

KeepCalm
      IB
 
(Monkey, 54
 
Points)
 on 7/7/12 at 7:49pm
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baabaablacksheep's picture

How does dry shampoo work on

baabaablacksheep
     
 
 
(Baboon, 107
 
Points)
 on 7/29/12 at 1:36pm
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In reply to baabaablacksheep
bankerella's picture

baabaablacksheep: How does

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 7/30/12 at 12:39pm

See my other WSO blog posts

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huanleshalemei's picture

Don't care about the

huanleshalemei
     
 
(Gorilla, 546
 
Points)
 on 8/2/12 at 2:03pm

The Auto Show

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In reply to huanleshalemei
bankerella's picture

huanleshalemei: Don't care

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 8/2/12 at 4:38pm

See my other WSO blog posts

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huanleshalemei's picture

Now I believe you are the

huanleshalemei
     
 
(Gorilla, 546
 
Points)
 on 8/2/12 at 4:58pm

The Auto Show

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In reply to huanleshalemei
bankerella's picture

huanleshalemei: Now I believe

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 8/2/12 at 8:31pm

See my other WSO blog posts

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huanleshalemei's picture

Gee, make people's eyes'

huanleshalemei
     
 
(Gorilla, 546
 
Points)
 on 8/2/12 at 8:45pm

The Auto Show

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bankerella's picture

Regardless of how costly it

bankerella
      IB
 
 
(King Kong, 1,895
 
Points)
 on 8/3/12 at 10:27am

See my other WSO blog posts

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The contents of this Web Site, such as text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, software and other items (collectively, "Material"), are protected under both United States and foreign copyright, trademark and other laws. All Material is the property of the Company or its content suppliers or clients. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement and assembly) of all content on this Web Site is the exclusive property of the Company and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of the Material may violate copyright, trademark, and other laws. You must retain all copyright, trademark, service-mark and other proprietary notices contained in the original Material on any copy you make of the Material. You may not sell or modify the Material or reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute, or otherwise use the Material in any way for any public or commercial purpose. The use of the Material on any other web site or in a networked computer environment for any purpose is prohibited.

You shall not copy or adapt the HTML code that the Company creates to generate its pages. It is also protected by the Company?s copyright.

Acceptable Site Use.

General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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