• Sharebar

Hi, I have been accepted to Wharton (awaiting HBS currently) for the full time MBA.

Am 28 years old.

Currently earning USD 150k. Guaranteed earnings for the next 5 years:
Year 1 : 160k
Year 2 : 175k
Year 3: 190k
Year 4 : 220k
Year 5: 235k
Year 6: 400k
Year 7+ : 500k

These earning are pretty much set in stone as it is a natural progressive path for my job every calender year.

I am presently keen on an MBA for 'academic interest' and to try something different. The corporate world has always appealed to me and I would like to try and leverage my experience to ultimately work in consulting and head to a large NGO or an organistion like the United Nations.

I am interested in hearing the thoughts of members on whether the opportunity cost (I'm calculating 500k in fees and lost earnings initially) is worth the risk. I would be taking a large loan (75% of the fees).

Thanking you guys in advance for your replies.

P.s. I'm sure some of you are curious as to what I do. I am a medical Doctor on a guaranteed run through to becoming a specialist.

P.P.s. Above salary does not include private practice (which I would embark upon in 10 years-ish)

Comments (47)

  • gammaovertheta's picture

    It is absolutely not worthwhile - not even HBS is. You're set up, man. Go live the fucking dream.

  • SirTradesaLot's picture

    Ok, you say it's guaranteed through year 5, then it spikes massively in year 6? You and I might have different definitions of what 'set in stone' means.

    That being said, given that you would be starting near the bottom of the totem pole in finance at 30-31, it doesn't make financial sense to go to business school no matter where it is, in my opinion.

    adapt or die:
    What would P.T. Barnum say about you?

    MY BLOG

  • prudentinvestor's picture

    Two Points

    1) Do you have med school loans to already deal with? If yes --> No to Wharton

    2) Brady just died a little more inside.

  • holla_back's picture

    If I won a $200 million lottery jackpot tomorrow, the first thing I'd do with the money would be to try to buy myself a place at HBS.

    Jesus Christ, how sad is that.

  • In reply to holla_back
    SirTradesaLot's picture

    holla_back:
    If I won a $200 million lottery jackpot tomorrow, the first thing I'd do with the money would be to try to buy myself a place at HBS.

    Jesus Christ, how sad is that.


    So sad that I hope it's a joke. Otherwise, you may have just earned the designation as Brady reincarnated.

    adapt or die:
    What would P.T. Barnum say about you?

    MY BLOG

  • Going Concern's picture

    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    “The new day brings new hope. The lives we’ve led, the lives we’ve yet to lead. A new day. New ideas. A new you.”

  • 808's picture

    From a financial point of view, it's a definite loss. You would lose more than a half million, and probably end up no better than you are now. If you are considering it simply because you want to take the NGO/UN etc. route, there are probably better ways to do that. Do some research first about other paths to your end goal - sorry I don't have any experience to offer on that.

  • Ruskii's picture

    With medical reimbursements going down due to Obama-care, the older generation of doctors posting off retirement, and the increasing trend of hospitals to buy out private practices and employ physicians as hospital employees there is a high probability that your future earnings potential is not as high as you may think.

    What kind of "specialty" are we talking about?

  • wikileaks's picture

    If your already doing it big in heath why switch?
    Finance is not that glorious, your either selling $hit to someone, or buying $hit from someone else.

  • BTbanker's picture

    All you need to do to catch up to us finance ballers is overstate the price of your patient prescriptions, insurance company pays actual price, and you pocket the difference.

  • Mikey103's picture

    Honestly if you go to the wharton business school and your drop your current job to go there I will honestly consider you a fool. I read the earnings and within 2 seconds I already new the opportunity cost that you will be forgoing will out weight the cost of a Wharton MBA education...

  • Studiofan's picture

    look at mid career Wharton and HBS career salaries, after seeing that you will realize that you would be a fool to drop out. B school is a means to an end, if you don't need it don't do it.

  • In reply to Going Concern
    Gray Fox's picture

    Going Concern:
    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    Banks are firing tens of thousands of people every month... that is not an exaggeration. Just log on to dealbreaker each day and you will see a new list of mass firings. The industry will be regulated on a more accelerated schedule than medicine. Hedge funds and PE firms are generating increasingly mediocre returns.

    Obamacare may look like it will "cut costs" right now but that is an absolute friggin' joke. 10k people in the United States are retiring every day... they are going to need lots of medical care.

    If you enjoy medicine at all don't do it.

  • In reply to Gray Fox
    AnalystMonkey2769's picture

    Gray Fox:
    Going Concern:
    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    Banks are firing tens of thousands of people every month... that is not an exaggeration. Just log on to dealbreaker each day and you will see a new list of mass firings. The industry will be regulated on a more accelerated schedule than medicine. Hedge funds and PE firms are generating increasingly mediocre returns.

    Obamacare may look like it will "cut costs" right now but that is an absolute friggin' joke. 10k people in the United States are retiring every day... they are going to need lots of medical care.

    If you enjoy medicine at all don't do it.

    This. You're call ultimately but you've done a lot/studied a lot/worked at lot to get where you are now and have a very good/stable/respectable and stimulating career ahead of you

    what worries me is that if you are THAT open to going to get an MBA...do you really love what you are doing in medicine? and then think would you really starting over again basically in finance? personally i'd stay with the career you have now, but just my two cents. the comment i quoted above is prob the strongest point up here, id listen to Gray Fox.

    I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

  • In reply to Gray Fox
    AnalystMonkey2769's picture

    Gray Fox:
    Going Concern:
    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    Banks are firing tens of thousands of people every month... that is not an exaggeration. Just log on to dealbreaker each day and you will see a new list of mass firings. The industry will be regulated on a more accelerated schedule than medicine. Hedge funds and PE firms are generating increasingly mediocre returns.

    Obamacare may look like it will "cut costs" right now but that is an absolute friggin' joke. 10k people in the United States are retiring every day... they are going to need lots of medical care.

    If you enjoy medicine at all don't do it.

    +1 btw :)

    I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

  • TeddyTheBear's picture

    Agreed with everyone else, you are already on the right path. The median Wharton MBA salary is a $110k so when people on this forum talk about going to Wharton and pulling in a million plus, they are going to be sadly disappointed.

  • In reply to Gray Fox
    Going Concern's picture

    Gray Fox:
    Going Concern:
    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    Banks are firing tens of thousands of people every month... that is not an exaggeration. Just log on to dealbreaker each day and you will see a new list of mass firings. The industry will be regulated on a more accelerated schedule than medicine. Hedge funds and PE firms are generating increasingly mediocre returns.

    Obamacare may look like it will "cut costs" right now but that is an absolute friggin' joke. 10k people in the United States are retiring every day... they are going to need lots of medical care.

    If you enjoy medicine at all don't do it.

    I spent a good chunk of my undergrad as a gung-ho premed and I got plenty of legitimate exposure to the medical world. My impression was that if you're not 100% devoted to the profession you're going to want to stick a scalpel in your eye. If not today, then tomorrow. A top MBA offers a way out for someone who does not appear to be fully committed. Obviously there are huge risks involved.

    “The new day brings new hope. The lives we’ve led, the lives we’ve yet to lead. A new day. New ideas. A new you.”

  • In reply to Going Concern
    BTbanker's picture

    Going Concern:
    Gray Fox:
    Going Concern:
    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    Banks are firing tens of thousands of people every month... that is not an exaggeration. Just log on to dealbreaker each day and you will see a new list of mass firings. The industry will be regulated on a more accelerated schedule than medicine. Hedge funds and PE firms are generating increasingly mediocre returns.

    Obamacare may look like it will "cut costs" right now but that is an absolute friggin' joke. 10k people in the United States are retiring every day... they are going to need lots of medical care.

    If you enjoy medicine at all don't do it.

    I spent a good chunk of my undergrad as a gung-ho premed and I got plenty of legitimate exposure to the medical world. My impression was that if you're not 100% devoted to the profession you're going to want to stick a scalpel in your eye. If not today, then tomorrow. A top MBA offers a way out for someone who does not appear to be fully committed. Obviously there are huge risks involved.


    I actually know quite a few doctors/surgeons that wish they went the business route in college even though they're raking in the dough. Not that I needed any convincing, but I will never do anything medical related because of them.
  • In reply to Going Concern
    Karembeu5163's picture

    Going Concern:
    Gray Fox:
    Going Concern:
    I say go for it. Wharton MBA will open up a lot of different doors for you, and doesn't sound like your heart is really into medicine given you're applying for MBA programs. But you can specialize in something like Healthcare Management if you want. It's definitely a huge risk though. Also I don't think anything earnings wise is guaranteed unless you're a tenured professor.

    Banks are firing tens of thousands of people every month... that is not an exaggeration. Just log on to dealbreaker each day and you will see a new list of mass firings. The industry will be regulated on a more accelerated schedule than medicine. Hedge funds and PE firms are generating increasingly mediocre returns.

    Obamacare may look like it will "cut costs" right now but that is an absolute friggin' joke. 10k people in the United States are retiring every day... they are going to need lots of medical care.

    If you enjoy medicine at all don't do it.

    I spent a good chunk of my undergrad as a gung-ho premed and I got plenty of legitimate exposure to the medical world. My impression was that if you're not 100% devoted to the profession you're going to want to stick a scalpel in your eye. If not today, then tomorrow. A top MBA offers a way out for someone who does not appear to be fully committed. Obviously there are huge risks involved.

    This one is tough. I do agree with everyone else that he's already doing so well that it doesn't make sense financially to stop and get a MBA, even at Wharton. However, having done the premed thing in college as well, I also do agree that if it's something that you don't enjoy doing 100%, it'll be hell trying to get through it. Albeit that point is more directed at getting through med school and residency and I'm not sure if it's entirely applicable once you start practicing.

    OP, unless you really hate doing your job right now, I'd say just stick to what you're doing. In my opinion, medicine is the only profession that will always have demand so at the very least you'll always have job security.

  • harvardgrad08's picture

    If practicing medicine is not something that you really want to do and want to transition to something business related have you considered lateraling directly into one of the big three consulting firms (MBB - mckinsey, bain, bcg)? These firms, especially McK, hire lots of MDs directly given all the work being done by these firms in healthcare, pharma, etc. Then you can use the MBB background to transition into PE, VC, etc.

    One of my college roommates recently graduated from Penn Med and he pointed out that a very high % of his graduating class is not even doing their residency but going directly to MBB...some did the MD/MBA at Penn but most didn't.

    something to consider if you want to transition...and doesn't cost you one bit.

  • VanillaGorilla's picture

    Have you researched this thoroughly? Does the UN like top MBAs or do you want the MBA to get into top consulting --> UN? What kind of history do the folks in the UN who are doing what you want to do have?

    Unless the UN wants the MBA pedigree, I think I would look into harvardgrad08's suggestion. Can you defer your offer a year and try for consulting without the MBA?

  • Medical Monkey's picture

    Thanks for the insightful comments.

    A few clarifications
    1) My salary is 'guaranteed' in that I am on a legally binding training contract (with set salary and working conditions). Also, the massive jump in earnings at year 6+ reflect my becoming a specialist (hence the big move up).
    2) Yes, it is true to say that I am not entirely happy with medicine. Not to say I dislike it, but I do not get the fulfillment I thought I would from it. This is the reason I want to eventually move to some form of NGO type work (which I enjoy). In the interim, I want to just earn alot of PSPSPS so that I can do what I want aged mid 40s and provide for my family without worry.
    3) The healthcare system I am working in is not the US. My working conditions are approx 45hrs/week and this will likely reduce to 40 hrs when I'm a specialist.

    I guess I have always been 'intrigued' with the corporate world. Having lived in london, I was always deeply curious as to what all the suit wearing corporate types did, as they always seemed to be going out to bars and corporate events.

    You also always hear of 'rich bankers' and their 7 sum bonuses. In fact, on so many recent Forbes/Newsweek articles, they make play on how a 'total MBA from Harvard package nets you 350k+ etc'. Not knowing anyone in finance, I don't really have a framework to objectively evaluate these figures.

    P.s. I actually applied earlier this year for MBB (2 of the firms) as an 'experienced hire'. Job situation in London is dire and they advised me that they had no positions available for the near future. Hence the MBA.

  • Obi2012's picture

    Hey Chimp,
    just curious as to what branch of medicine you work in? As far as i know, there is no branch in medicine where your salary is promised to progressively grow each year. Even if this case, it might just be peculiar to your medical group which i have never heard of any medical group giving annual raises, most raises/ bonuses are given based on performance (i.e seeing 20 patients a day, or buying into the medical group). Based on the salary you quoted yourself currently making, i'd assume you are in pediatrics, internal medicine or family medicine.

    My confusion though is you said you are a specialist or on a run through to be a specialist. What kind of specialist? Assuming you spent 3 years on your fellowship, 4 years for residency, that would mean you graduated medical school at 21.. If we discount 4 years for med school, you graduated college at 17.

    Forgive me for doubting the authenticity of this post but every physician knows there is no such thing as a run through to becoming a specialist. You have to go through a fellowship which could range anywhere from 3 to 5 years before you can specialize depending on your sub-specialty and if you knew that you would have to go through a 3 year fellowship, it would have been reflected in your projected salary because its a whooping ( $70,000 to $80,000 max per year for three years regardless of what you were earning pre fellowship)

    Think about it, how can an internal med doc practice for three or four years without a fellowship and says he is now a run through or whatever you call it to become a cardiologist or a nephrologist? You have brief knowledge of cardio and nephro so how could you be a run through to become a specialist? i have never even heard of the words run through. No doctor can predict what they'll be earning in 7 years..

    If by some weird chance this story is true with so many holes in it, why would you with outstanding med school loans in the $300k range, give up a paying job to go and start back at wharton to earn less? Pick up administrative duties at your hospital in addition to you regular physician duties, enroll in a top rated EMBA or Weekend MBA and get the hospital to pay for it (they'll most likely cover it since you are part of the administrative staff) . Columbia, UChicago, Kellogg, Cornell, UMIch amongst other schools have highly rated Weekend/EMBA programs where you dont have to leave your job to attend.

  • Medical Monkey's picture

    Graduated in the UK (where Fees are heavily subsidised at PS1100 per annum) at the age of 23. We do not have 'pre med' and head straight to medical school aged 17/18. So a total outstanding loan of about PS7k.

    2 compulsory years an an intern takes me to 25/26. Now a further 2 years into my run through training (we apply earlier for this than you would in the US system it appears)

    Am currently on an opthalmology run through. Work in australia where salaries are much higher. Also work slightly rurally so my renumeration is slightly higher.

    I hope this clarifies things. North America is very different to the rest of the world in medicine and medical training so I understand your skepticism for training years and pay etc.

  • HG14's picture

    I am going to differ a bit and give you another option. After a friend decided to do Wharton MBA for Execs, I have done some research on the program. If you could handle going to Wharton every other weekend, the Wharton EMBA would be the best of both worlds.

    Talk to alums that are in medicine, and you will be surprised at the number of docs (many senior) that have completed the Wharton EMBA program. There is a recorded conference call on the website that was for people in medicine and it would be right up your alley. The program's academic requirements are the same, you have good networking options, same diploma, access to all the same benefits, you just don't have to go full-time. Some of the younger kids (not at Wharton) may look down on EMBAs, but Wharton's EMBA is the best by far in terms of equivalence to the full time degree. And in the end, you are treated the same by the alumni network due to the sheer strength of the grads of the Wharton EMBA program.

    From what I understand, if you are on the young end then Wharton's EMBA has options. However, you would have to contact the admissions office to find out.

    So this may not be an option, but if it is, it may be a good one.

  • mikesswimn's picture

    Here's a thought, if the MBA is primarily an academic interest now (but could change in the future) just go buy some used CFA level 1 books. It's a great introduction to business and you'll be able to guage how much you like the subject from an academic standpoint. Keep working, if you hate it in a few years, check out Yale's MBA for Executives which focuses exclusively on healthcare and will make for a smoother transition.

    Just my $0.02.

    "My caddie's chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested."

  • jtbbdxbnycmad's picture

    His story checks out to me; at least, I could tell immediately from his first post that he's not based in the US nor was he educated there, and plenty of my friends in elite positions in the sciences still feel the draw of the corporate world's mystique and earnings power. In this case, I don't think it is worth it for the OP unless he has a huge risk appetite. Yes, a Wharton MBA and some time spent at MBB can set you up well for leadership in the NGO/UN type of arena, but so can an excellent career in medicine, NGO work done pro-bono or during sabbaticals or leave in a 10-month employment arrangement (should be feasible), and while MBB hasn't been hiring now, McKinsey in particular likes hiring doctors as specialists. I personally wouldn't do it. Education in the US has become so expensive that it's not for everyone anymore; you don't fit the ideal customer bill.

  • Obi2012's picture

    Original poster, sorry i assumed you were in the United States since you quoted your salary in dollars and you were looking at US schools.

    If you really dont want to do a weekend program, why not look at INSEAD and LBS which are one year programs at less opportunity cost?

  • In reply to Medical Monkey
    meabric's picture

    Medical Monkey:

    Am currently on an opthalmology run through. Work in australia where salaries are much higher. Also work slightly rurally so my renumeration is slightly higher.

    I'm sure you know this, but once you specialize and become a Consultant (monkeys this is a medical title) in Australia you are set financially. You will also work very easy hours and can probably take on a near full time charity commitment if you wish in a couple years and still get as much sleep as you got in uni. If you want to do NGO work down the line, think about 1 year masters in health policy or development (Oxford/Cambridge offer these, as do several good US unis). Wharton and even HBS are full of people who have not made it yet and are extremely obsessed with doing so, you will hate them more than you hate your seniors and patients now.

  • socola2003's picture

    Prediction is never easy, especially when it's about the future, and moreso when it's about healthcare. I would bet against your salary predictions 10x given the state of the US healthcare system and the impending medicare cuts. Unless you're in an exclsive out-of-pocket field where you don't rely on 3rd party payors, like plastic surgery for ex, then you cannot have any gauranteed salary expectations more than 2 years out.

    Secondly, you want to do an MBA to switch into consulting or work for an NGO? Consulting will give you a 'flavor' of corporate world but not the latter. You also have to think about salary coming out. Say you were to go into consulting post Wharton, perhaps MBB, then your max salary would place you in the first year right back at 160K, adjusted maybe 1-2% for inflation in 2015. Your opp cost at a high level will be 2 yrs current salary out (300k) + 150k 2 yrs at Wharton, so about 450K. Now, if you're really good at blending your healthcare expertise with corporate and say you become a partner in MBB's healthcare practice, well as a partner you will surely be making much more than any specialist makes in the US, the exception only being purely out-of-pocket specialties like plastic surgery or other elective areas of medicine not covered by 3rd paryt insurance. ANywhere else in medicine you cap out well below $1MM.

    Don't be so presumptous about private practice in the US. I hope you know the days of FFS are gone and prviate practice physicians have squeezed margins with heavy fixed costs combined with falling reimbursements on the medicare/medicaid side. With increasing competetivie pressures with larger ACOs and physican groups, commercial insurers are reimbursing standalone private practices even less. SO where's the money maker in this loser market?

    At the end of the day though, any wise person would simply say do what your heart tells you to do. If you went into medicine for the money, then I seriously hope you're in a purely elective industry, otherwise prepared to get f*cked on pay. Doctors have no control over their salaries in the US market since 90% of reimbursement is driven by 3rd party payors.

    Good luck
    Healthcare banker

  • Target Community College's picture

    You heal people for a living! That's wonderful bro. Wharton will not give you that kind of satisfaction either during or afterwards. You haven't even specialized yet! My two cents is you should continue to practice medicine, specialize and continue helping people becuase christ, we need more good doctors. This business school craze is ridiculous. Do you really want to do case studies instead of medicine? Learn a bunch of useless Excel tricks as opposed to curing real human pain and suffering? Have faith in your abilities young jedi, you are needed and wanted in the field of medicine.

    Thanks,
    Guy who wishes he would have studied medicine instead of staring at spreadsheets all day

  • In reply to TeddyTheBear
    Aston Gekko's picture

    TeddyTheBear:
    Agreed with everyone else, you are already on the right path. The median Wharton MBA salary is a $110k so when people on this forum talk about going to Wharton and pulling in a million plus, they are going to be sadly disappointed.

    Oh boy, you did it now! Here comes the comp argument....

  • In reply to socola2003
    kingfalcon's picture

    socola2003:
    Prediction is never easy, especially when it's about the future, and moreso when it's about healthcare. I would bet against your salary predictions 10x given the state of the US healthcare system and the impending medicare cuts. Unless you're in an exclsive out-of-pocket field where you don't rely on 3rd party payors, like plastic surgery for ex, then you cannot have any gauranteed salary expectations more than 2 years out.

    Secondly, you want to do an MBA to switch into consulting or work for an NGO? Consulting will give you a 'flavor' of corporate world but not the latter. You also have to think about salary coming out. Say you were to go into consulting post Wharton, perhaps MBB, then your max salary would place you in the first year right back at 160K, adjusted maybe 1-2% for inflation in 2015. Your opp cost at a high level will be 2 yrs current salary out (300k) + 150k 2 yrs at Wharton, so about 450K. Now, if you're really good at blending your healthcare expertise with corporate and say you become a partner in MBB's healthcare practice, well as a partner you will surely be making much more than any specialist makes in the US, the exception only being purely out-of-pocket specialties like plastic surgery or other elective areas of medicine not covered by 3rd paryt insurance. ANywhere else in medicine you cap out well below $1MM.

    Don't be so presumptous about private practice in the US. I hope you know the days of FFS are gone and prviate practice physicians have squeezed margins with heavy fixed costs combined with falling reimbursements on the medicare/medicaid side. With increasing competetivie pressures with larger ACOs and physican groups, commercial insurers are reimbursing standalone private practices even less. SO where's the money maker in this loser market?

    At the end of the day though, any wise person would simply say do what your heart tells you to do. If you went into medicine for the money, then I seriously hope you're in a purely elective industry, otherwise prepared to get f*cked on pay. Doctors have no control over their salaries in the US market since 90% of reimbursement is driven by 3rd party payors.

    Good luck
    Healthcare banker


    He works in Australia.
  • Medical Monkey's picture

    Again, thank you all for the advice.

    I think a 1 year course may be a better idea for me. My initial considerations for US courses were that I am a 'career changer' and they appeared to offer better odds (from my understanding of forum posts anyway) for me to make a transition to MBB.

    Also I guess there is the quality of life issue that is impossible to put a value on. Mediciane would definitely give me easy work hours in that respect.

    Hmm... maybe I shouldn't have been so gung-ho about applying to Wharton in the first place. Waste of a lot of time and effort!

  • sayandarula's picture

    if your goal is MBB, have you considered foregoing b-school and applying directly?

    Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

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  • xabaglione's picture

    Ling~

  • watersign's picture

    alpha currency trader wanna-be

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  • financenerdDC's picture

    a finance monkey from the mean streets of downtown dc