4/18/11

Monkeys,

As year 1 closes in, I've begun struggling with what I suppose is some sort of quarter life crisis. For many of us in banking, life to this point has been a constant series of "successes"--do well in high school, go to a top college, break into a top group on Wall Street--with the next target being a coveted buyside gig.

Lately though, I've begun to seriously question what the point of it all is--sure we get paid a lot of money, but not enough to become independently wealthy anytime soon--we're still wage slaves busting our ass primarily for the benefit of some other dude's wallet. And on top of that, the work is more often degrading than it is challenging or engaging--which I'm reminded of every time I fill out a working group list or change the font size in a presentation. Even the more enjoyable parts of the job such as modeling are only so interesting once you've done them a dozen times.

Is the buyside really the promised land or just more of the same? I'm rapidly losing my interest in going into PE as all my friends a year or two ahead agree it is basically Banking 2.0. Are hedge funds really any better or will I just be a professional footnote reader making slightly more money for slightly less work?

And what's the cost of this relentless devotion to the rat race? We've all made pretty significant sacrifices to get where we are in life... soon I'll be 23 and I wonder how much of life I'm missing, 22 was spent behind a computer monitor becoming intimately familiar with powerpoint and excel. Is that really the wisest way to spend what is left of my youth?

Comments (129)

4/18/11

why dont you spice your life up by fucking some chicks?

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

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4/18/11
heister:

why dont you spice your life up by fucking some chicks?

agreed

4/18/11

Anal is the new black!

4/18/11

its a pretty simple decision

do you want to set yourself up for later in life by making 100k+ out of college

or do you want to live in the moment and make 30k out of college and "not let life pass you by"

(or you could go into trading and then get 100k+weekends...)

id rather spend 3-4 years setting myself up for the rest of my life, personally. although i also took the trading route, mostly so i could still have some semblance of a life...

4/18/11

money is always better than no money

4/19/11
turtles:

money is always better than no money

leisure is always better than no leisure.... ah, trade-offs...

4/18/11

From what I understand in trading you can make a lot more money, its a lot more interesting, and you actually have a life. Ever consider switching?

oh and may I suggest getting laid cause that just helps with everything.

4/18/11

same thoughts here, have been wondering about what the heck i am doing wasting my youth behind excel and powerpoint (working out some DD list as we speak). If you work hard (60 hrs a week), you will still get 300k by the time you are in late 20s and early 30s.

What happens after two years of banking, two years of PE, two year of Harvard? What are you going to do afterwards? Senior associate spots are scarce to come by and most people don't get the spots.

If you end up going to corporate or start your own thing, why not do it now? the difference between 4 years of banking/pe and someone who works through his own firm/ go into the "easy" route after 1 to 2 years of banking is that two years of PE money (which is say..600k pre tax and 300k post-tax compared to someone who makes 100k post tax?).

Of course, if you are genuinely interested in PE, then by all means go for it, but I truly believe most analysts don't find the idea of processing DD request and drafting up memos interesting

4/18/11
Ricqles:

same thoughts here, have been wondering about what the heck i am doing wasting my youth behind excel and powerpoint (working out some DD list as we speak). If you work hard (60 hrs a week), you will still get 300k by the time you are in late 20s and early 30s.

What happens after two years of banking, two years of PE, two year of Harvard? What are you going to do afterwards? Senior associate spots are scarce to come by and most people don't get the spots.

If you end up going to corporate or start your own thing, why not do it now? the difference between 4 years of banking/pe and someone who works through his own firm/ go into the "easy" route after 1 to 2 years of banking is that two years of PE money (which is say..600k pre tax and 300k post-tax compared to someone who makes 100k post tax?).

Of course, if you are genuinely interested in PE, then by all means go for it, but I truly believe most analysts don't find the idea of processing DD request and drafting up memos interesting

I think there's some security in the IB/PE path: if you took a normal job after college and got an MBA, your dream job after is doing banking or consulting. If you did 2 years at a top bank and 2 years at a top PE firm, that "dream job" of being an associate at goldman or morgan is suddenly your backup.

4/19/11
firefighter:
Ricqles:

same thoughts here, have been wondering about what the heck i am doing wasting my youth behind excel and powerpoint (working out some DD list as we speak). If you work hard (60 hrs a week), you will still get 300k by the time you are in late 20s and early 30s.

What happens after two years of banking, two years of PE, two year of Harvard? What are you going to do afterwards? Senior associate spots are scarce to come by and most people don't get the spots.

If you end up going to corporate or start your own thing, why not do it now? the difference between 4 years of banking/pe and someone who works through his own firm/ go into the "easy" route after 1 to 2 years of banking is that two years of PE money (which is say..600k pre tax and 300k post-tax compared to someone who makes 100k post tax?).

Of course, if you are genuinely interested in PE, then by all means go for it, but I truly believe most analysts don't find the idea of processing DD request and drafting up memos interesting

I think there's some security in the IB/PE path: if you took a normal job after college and got an MBA, your dream job after is doing banking or consulting. If you did 2 years at a top bank and 2 years at a top PE firm, that "dream job" of being an associate at goldman or morgan is suddenly your backup.

you want to do banking as your backup? man you are a machine...

4/18/11

Grass is always greener my man. Totally understand your thoughts here, I went through the same struggle (and, quite frankly, go through it daily). If you've tolerated it this long, you can handle it for another year. Summer analysts will make life a LITTLE better, and the new wave of first years will mean you're no longer the bitch. Life will improve (how much depends on the group), and it will get a little more tolerable. As to the answer of "buyside," if this is your thought process you need to drop the notion that there is only one way to go. If you end up at a place where you are a financial engineer (read: Excel slave), you're right: life will suck. But if you broaden your horizons and don't just think, "I want to go to the best place, ON PAPER, possible," you might have some luck. I think you need to think about it as the best place for you. What do you enjoy about your job? What do you hate? You need to try to apply this to your next job choice. If you fucking love modeling and could do it 24/7, go to a large buyout fund -- you'll do plenty of that. If you like hopping on the phone and chatting with clients all day, or sales interests you, go to a growth equity shop where sourcing is a component of the associates job. Hate banking but like the idea of business strategy (let's face it -- there's no strategy in banking -- it's just "let's get this deal done")? Go industry. Hate everything about banking and finance? Leave the industry all together.

Thing is, lots of doors open from doing the two year stint, and it's not just in finance. Take a step back, think about what interests you (and you'll likely realize it's not the megafunds where lots of your friends go because it's the "next step"), and pursue.

4/18/11

firefighter: agreed, sort of. I think there's security in doing two years of IB, two years of PE if you really think you might be interested, because if you do it and love it, you're good to go. If you do it and hate it, it's a lot easier to go to MBA and hop into corporate development/pick-your-poison than it is to do corporate development, not love it and want to do IB/PE.

4/18/11

Ah, quarter-life crisis. I went through a serious bout last year (which seems to be ongoing). Unfortunately, I think this is what getting older / becoming an adult is all about. Glad other people feel the same way!

4/19/11

Well for what it's worth, I look back at the age of 23 and wish it had been spent on the success track. I have found that it's exceedingly easy to become derailed and damn near impossible to break back in. I am not old yet, but I am not young anymore and I can offer this: bust your ass while your young so that you can relax a bit as you age. The grass is always greener, so unless you find something you want to do MORE than finance AND you are good at it just stick with it: you'll thank yourself when you get older.....and by older I mean 30 / 35.

That and seriously, go out and get laid.

Get busy living

Best Response
4/19/11

I plan to fuck a 19 year old blonde tomorrow after work...say 6pm? I'm doing karaoke with friends on Wednesday, have another social gathering on Thursday, and have a date with a different girl on Friday (even hotter than tomorrow's). This is a typical week (btw I still work 60+ hrs a week, sometimes more, but I can mold my work around my social schedule, and that's the key).

I couldn't go back to PE (nevermind banking, which I've never done) if you held a gun to my head...(and btw, I'm not making as much as in PE doing what I do now...at least...not yet; I def will at some point lol)

I went through the same thing when I was your age...stuck at work thinking..."this isn't success, I don't care what anyone says, this path sucks". I had this picture in my head of what I wanted my life to be. I wanted to be my own boss, make shit happen, eat what I kill, and retire in my 30s. I decided that I would have that life, or die trying.

Most people have zero balls when it comes to their careers. Well, I got news for you, life is what YOU make it.

You're obviously not happy. Quit your job, take a couple months to discover what it is you truly want to do, and do it. I can't guarantee you'll make more money or be as "successful". But...I CAN guarantee you that, if you don't listen to my advice, many years from now, when you're dying in your bed, you'd give it all back for just one chance to follow your dreams, whatever they may be.

Consultant to a Fortune 50 Company

4/19/11
alexpasch:

I plan to fuck a 19 year old blonde tomorrow after work...say 6pm? I'm doing karaoke with friends on Wednesday, have another social gathering on Thursday, and have a date with a different girl on Friday (even hotter than tomorrow's). This is a typical week (btw I still work 60+ hrs a week, sometimes more, but I can mold my work around my social schedule, and that's the key).

I couldn't go back to PE (nevermind banking, which I've never done) if you held a gun to my head...(and btw, I'm not making as much as in PE doing what I do now...at least...not yet; I def will at some point lol)

I went through the same thing when I was your age...stuck at work thinking..."this isn't success, I don't care what anyone says, this path sucks". I had this picture in my head of what I wanted my life to be. I wanted to be my own boss, make shit happen, eat what I kill, and retire in my 30s. I decided that I would have that life, or die trying.

Most people have zero balls when it comes to their careers. Well, I got news for you, life is what YOU make it.

You're obviously not happy. Quit your job, take a couple months to discover what it is you truly want to do, and do it. I can't guarantee you'll make more money or be as "successful". But...I CAN guarantee you that, if you don't listen to my advice, many years from now, when you're dying in your bed, you'd give it all back for just one chance to follow your dreams, whatever they may be.

I think you just inspired me to quit my job

4/19/11
Ricqles:
alexpasch:

I plan to fuck a 19 year old blonde tomorrow after work...say 6pm? I'm doing karaoke with friends on Wednesday, have another social gathering on Thursday, and have a date with a different girl on Friday (even hotter than tomorrow's). This is a typical week (btw I still work 60+ hrs a week, sometimes more, but I can mold my work around my social schedule, and that's the key).

I couldn't go back to PE (nevermind banking, which I've never done) if you held a gun to my head...(and btw, I'm not making as much as in PE doing what I do now...at least...not yet; I def will at some point lol)

I went through the same thing when I was your age...stuck at work thinking..."this isn't success, I don't care what anyone says, this path sucks". I had this picture in my head of what I wanted my life to be. I wanted to be my own boss, make shit happen, eat what I kill, and retire in my 30s. I decided that I would have that life, or die trying.

Most people have zero balls when it comes to their careers. Well, I got news for you, life is what YOU make it.

You're obviously not happy. Quit your job, take a couple months to discover what it is you truly want to do, and do it. I can't guarantee you'll make more money or be as "successful". But...I CAN guarantee you that, if you don't listen to my advice, many years from now, when you're dying in your bed, you'd give it all back for just one chance to follow your dreams, whatever they may be.

I think you just inspired me to quit my job

Ditto.

4/19/11
alexpasch:

I plan to fuck a 19 year old blonde tomorrow after work...say 6pm? I'm doing karaoke with friends on Wednesday, have another social gathering on Thursday, and have a date with a different girl on Friday (even hotter than tomorrow's). This is a typical week (btw I still work 60+ hrs a week, sometimes more, but I can mold my work around my social schedule, and that's the key).

I couldn't go back to PE (nevermind banking, which I've never done) if you held a gun to my head...(and btw, I'm not making as much as in PE doing what I do now...at least...not yet; I def will at some point lol)

I went through the same thing when I was your age...stuck at work thinking..."this isn't success, I don't care what anyone says, this path sucks". I had this picture in my head of what I wanted my life to be. I wanted to be my own boss, make shit happen, eat what I kill, and retire in my 30s. I decided that I would have that life, or die trying.

Most people have zero balls when it comes to their careers. Well, I got news for you, life is what YOU make it.

You're obviously not happy. Quit your job, take a couple months to discover what it is you truly want to do, and do it. I can't guarantee you'll make more money or be as "successful". But...I CAN guarantee you that, if you don't listen to my advice, many years from now, when you're dying in your bed, you'd give it all back for just one chance to follow your dreams, whatever they may be.

One of the best post I have read so far. SB for you.

4/19/11

I'll say this one more time, S&T for the win.

4/19/11

Dude you just have to learn not to let the job define who you are. You work in banking - you don't have to be a banker tool. You hit the nail on the head when you said the worst part is the demeaning nature of the analyst position. You get treated like absolute shit - you're not worth the lint that's on your MD's Ferragamo suit. The hours, BS client service work and condescending associates only seek to reinforce this everyday. You probably had a blast senior year, graduating at the peak of your confidence - and now you're stuck with this? We've all been there.

Just know that it gets better - and part of this is about you making it better. As a 2nd year, you will find yourself getting more respect. It is up to you to grab that respect by the balls and stop being a bitch. Just stop taking as much shit from people as you used to. They expect this from you - it's the higher-efficiency/more-respect trade-off of the analyst maturity curve. If you don't man up, you'll just keep getting walked all over. So your 2nd year will be much better when you're not getting dicked around as much and you're no longer being staffed on the BS projects that the first years are now getting.

But banking is still banking - it can only get so much better. You gotta get the fuck out! Get that PE job that you came in here for. And then what ends up happening is that you will take your new 2nd year analyst attitude to an entirely new place where you won't have to deal with the client service shit and where you will see yourself getting more respect and responsibility. You're at the bottom of the bottle right now - it only gets better. You don't need to doubt your entire career choice just because you don't like banking - NOBODY likes banking. The analyst position fucking blows. It's all about paying your dues and moving on to bigger and better - and it does get better.

And equally important to all of this is maintaining your social life/sanity. Make sure you live it up when you have the free time. Soon you'll be right there with me and the other 2nd years I know who are now officially checked out. I've been rolling in at 11:30, going to the gym for 2 hours per day in the afternoon and leaving at 6 if I have nothing to do - and I can't wait to get the fuck out.

You'll be OK

4/19/11

That whole "set yourself up for later in life" line is a crock of shit in my opinion. Unless you choose to be satisfied with a couple million you're not retiring at 30 or 35. Ever met someone really high up in finance that seems to love life? Hell no. They're too worried about all those bills they have to pay, mistress and/or wife's shopping addiction, mortgage on the vacation home(s), etc. Add on to that the fact that they'll hardly ever see their kids if they're really dedicated to their jobs, it's a lifestyle of misery man. People are too focused on buying and owning stuff they don't need to be happy. Eventually, that stuff ends up owning them.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

4/19/11

I've had those thoughts and ended up deciding that I'm my own man (hence this occurred around the time i set up an account here, thus, my name) and i will not be owned by a job. I do care about a career, so i thought very hard about not what the typical path is, but skills i will need in the future and where do i see myself. Working into 12am everyday does not make me happy and in fact makes me depressed if I think about young people having fun. I've sacrificed a lot, but I don't mean to be a slave to the job, so the goal is to develop the relevant skills that will make me valuable in the future. The supposed riches you attain are very often overestimated and highlighted by few rather than most, while shaded by ppl working long hours for just a middle class salary. Be your own man, find your priorities and realized that happiness is not about 10million or 1 million a year, it's about what you will do with your life, the variety of experiences, and enjoyment of family, etc. If to get to that 10million you spend 10 years like a slave...you might just stay even if you have an option to leave or you will become a slave to other things like your social circle (which you can't change over night). You will need to work hard if you want to succeed, but working hard does not mean not enjoying life.

Do what you want not what you can!

4/19/11

NO, thats why I'm in trading

Or, stop spending money on stupid shit---make the commute to hoboken to save money on taxes, and start putting shit aside (strict budgeting) so that in 10 years u can retire---

thats the way I see it (if ur smart, u can place ur money as a lender in private money, securitized loans) and get an 11 % return,
thats how my grandparents (one worked at macys as a purchaser, the mother a housewife) are able to put their 6 grandkids through private college) TV of money is on ur side----

i think u can live off 200k a year (so save up 2 mill and enjoy life)

IVY for Life

4/19/11
futuretrader1999:

NO, thats why I'm in trading

Or, stop spending money on stupid shit---make the commute to hoboken to save money on taxes, and start putting shit aside (strict budgeting) so that in 10 years u can retire---

thats the way I see it (if ur smart, u can place ur money as a lender in private money, securitized loans) and get an 11 % return,
thats how my grandparents (one worked at macys as a purchaser, the mother a housewife) are able to put their 6 grandkids through private college) TV of money is on ur side----

i think u can live off 200k a year (so save up 2 mill and enjoy life)

Pretty solid response....just wondering how do you get into private lending? I realize that's a bit vague/open ended unfortunately I don't have any further knowledge to formulate a more targeted question

4/29/11
Apocalypse Meow][quote=futuretrader1999:

NO, thats why I'm in trading

Or, stop spending money on stupid shit---make the commute to hoboken to save money on taxes, and start putting shit aside (strict budgeting) so that in 10 years u can retire---

thats the way I see it (if ur smart, u can place ur money as a lender in private money, securitized loans) and get an 11 % return,
thats how my grandparents (one worked at macys as a purchaser, the mother a housewife) are able to put their 6 grandkids through private college) TV of money is on ur side----

i think u can live off 200k a year (so save up 2 mill and enjoy life)

Pretty solid response....just wondering how do you get into private lending? I realize that's a bit vague/open ended unfortunately I don't have any further knowledge to formulate a more targeted question[/quote

Its called the classified section of the WSJ--or looking around and making some calls (back to that agressive networking mode) when u were breaking in

sometimes success isn't doing what everyone else is trying to do, but looking for alternative opportunities.

i pity the supposed smart people on this site that pay 50% in taxes and invest in some bullshit 4% a year Vanguard ETF with an employer matching 401K

want an easy and extremely profitable investment---buy a few apartment rentals (all repairs are tax deductible, and the stuff goes cheap now from tax sales, county foreclosure sales, etc...

Goal: Make the largest Aftertax income possible without cheating Uncle Sam,
then there's plenty left over for philanthropy

IVY for Life

4/30/11
futuretrader1999][quote=Apocalypse Meow:
futuretrader1999:

NO, thats why I'm in trading

Or, stop spending money on stupid shit---make the commute to hoboken to save money on taxes, and start putting shit aside (strict budgeting) so that in 10 years u can retire---

thats the way I see it (if ur smart, u can place ur money as a lender in private money, securitized loans) and get an 11 % return,
thats how my grandparents (one worked at macys as a purchaser, the mother a housewife) are able to put their 6 grandkids through private college) TV of money is on ur side----

i think u can live off 200k a year (so save up 2 mill and enjoy life)

Pretty solid response....just wondering how do you get into private lending? I realize that's a bit vague/open ended unfortunately I don't have any further knowledge to formulate a more targeted question[/quote

Its called the classified section of the WSJ--or looking around and making some calls (back to that agressive networking mode) when u were breaking in

sometimes success isn't doing what everyone else is trying to do, but looking for alternative opportunities.

i pity the supposed smart people on this site that pay 50% in taxes and invest in some bullshit 4% a year Vanguard ETF with an employer matching 401K

want an easy and extremely profitable investment---buy a few apartment rentals (all repairs are tax deductible, and the stuff goes cheap now from tax sales, county foreclosure sales, etc...

Goal: Make the largest Aftertax income possible without cheating Uncle Sam,
then there's plenty left over for philanthropy

Easier said than done. You have the time and energy to maintain rental properties as an IB analyst? And from what I hear property management companies are crooks so unless you've got a some really reliable friends and family I'd refrain from doing so.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

4/19/11

I don't know how to feel after reading this...... Like a complete loser for being nowhere near as succesful and spending my first 4 years of undergrad making mediocre grades trying to figure out what I even want to do. Or feel awesome that I'm 23, and while finishing undergrad and applying to grad school can say I've had a damn fun early 20's with many great experiences......hmmmmmmm.

4/19/11

I know I'm going to regret not having more fun... but i'm just not that kind of person that could have a happy life knowing i didnt push my limits and reach my full potential... even in now i'm thinking back about highschool and wondering what a WASTE of time all that fun was... I dont care for those people anymore, no significant impact on my wellbeing now...
Fun is like consumption... good now, no use later... a party is just a party, when its over you find yourself old 30 something, unable to party any more, no prospects... and 50 more years of life... whats gonna happen then? (unless youre silvio berlusconi, he's just a fucking animal)

If i find myself in my 40's looking back and remembering all the fun i had and thats all i did, for me that would be off-a-bridge-jumping material.

4/19/11

A lot of my friends in IBD went through the same thing. Just suck it up. You're only one year in. At least finish your 2 years before leaving.

4/19/11

PE isn't the only option, nor is buy-side. Go to a hedge fund or a boutique shop. I know of one boutique shop that has less than 90 people, manages 10.5B in assets, and works with numerous other firms (p/e, hedge funds, com. funds, etc). They're really bearish (which is why their current returns are a dismal 2-5%) but even at that, that's 200-500 million they make for clients. They get 15% of that, so 30-75m respectively to split among the small work force. If you want to get rich, or as you put it, "independently wealthy" take that route.

Oh by the way, you have to be a Rock Star to get in (despite their horrible performance).

4/19/11
brooksbrotha:

PE isn't the only option, nor is buy-side. Go to a hedge fund or a boutique shop. I know of one boutique shop that has less than 90 people, manages 10.5B in assets, and works with numerous other firms (p/e, hedge funds, com. funds, etc). They're really bearish (which is why their current returns are a dismal 2-5%) but even at that, that's 200-500 million they make for clients. They get 15% of that, so 30-75m respectively to split among the small work force. If you want to get rich, or as you put it, "independently wealthy" take that route.

Oh by the way, you have to be a Rock Star to get in (despite their horrible performance).

HF or Boutique shop aren't buy-side?

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

4/19/11

i've thought, and continue to think, about this very thing every day. I don't work in investment banking, but slaving away at a desk cranking out excel and ppts....is not fun. In fact, I don't even find finance all too interesting anymore. alexpasch said it best, and I might just have to consider his thought.

4/19/11

All you newbies take this thread as a warning that going into IBD over S&T is a very very dumb idea. My colleagues and I don't have to have the existential discussions about life and self fulfillment because our jobs are more interesting, more fun, and provide a far better lifestyle.

4/19/11
awm55:

All you newbies take this thread as a warning that going into IBD over S&T is a very very dumb idea. My colleagues and I don't have to have the existential discussions about life and self fulfillment because our jobs are more interesting, more fun, and provide a far better lifestyle.

u sound like a prozac commercial

4/19/11
thor1000:
awm55:

All you newbies take this thread as a warning that going into IBD over S&T is a very very dumb idea. My colleagues and I don't have to have the existential discussions about life and self fulfillment because our jobs are more interesting, more fun, and provide a far better lifestyle.

u sound like a prozac commercial

some of you guys should probably be on prozac

4/19/11

Yea indeed I am on Prozac as are my friends and family. I feel like a new person, full of life and joy. Even my dog likes me more. I've been getting laid 78% more often and get paid 13% more than before. With Prozac you'll be feeling just as great as I am.

Disclosure: Long Eli Lilly & Co. (LLY)

4/19/11

Alexpasch, you are my favorite member of this site, just saying... You rarely say something not banana worthy. Touche.

4/19/11
Mfsl27:

Alexpasch, you are my favorite member of this site, just saying... You rarely say something not banana worthy. Touche.

Thanks!!!! I go on this site a lot because working from home can get a little lonely, so this site is a decent substitute for the lack of office banter in my life.

Consultant to a Fortune 50 Company

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4/19/11

Two years of life to be in the top 1% of earning ON EARTH? How the fuck is this a tough decision. Suck it up and do it.

Tell you what: I'll trade jobs with you

Get busy living

4/19/11
UFOinsider:

Two years of life to be in the top 1% of earning ON EARTH? How the fuck is this a tough decision. Suck it up and do it.

Tell you what: I'll trade jobs with you

The same exact thoughts went through my head when I was a senior recruiting. Funny how things change so quickly

4/19/11
Ricqles:
UFOinsider:

Two years of life to be in the top 1% of earning ON EARTH? How the fuck is this a tough decision. Suck it up and do it.

Tell you what: I'll trade jobs with you

The same exact thoughts went through my head when I was a senior recruiting. Funny how things change so quickly

Seriously - give my resume to your boss and then quit. I'll do it.

Get busy living

4/19/11
UFOinsider:
Ricqles:
UFOinsider:

Two years of life to be in the top 1% of earning ON EARTH? How the fuck is this a tough decision. Suck it up and do it.

Tell you what: I'll trade jobs with you

The same exact thoughts went through my head when I was a senior recruiting. Funny how things change so quickly

Seriously - give my resume to your boss and then quit. I'll do it.

I dont think we would hire someone who is going through full time recruiting and still cannot find a job, so it doesn't matter if I quit or not.

4/23/11
UFOinsider:

Two years of life to be in the top 1% of earning ON EARTH? How the fuck is this a tough decision. Suck it up and do it.

Probably in the top 1% for most hours worked too. I see your point, but you aren't exactly overpaid as an analyst.

I think it is just a question of when you get off the "track". For instance, I am happy to work 100+ a week at 25. It's the right time to learn.

30? I might have a kid, and I would want to be around to watch them grow up.

At 50, if I am not phasing out of finance entirely (or doing independent consulting), I'll know that I have messed up somewhere. I could definitely see myself running a vineyard or working for a business incubator, but probably not still working in a traditional finance role. Maybe corpdev.

Giving up a few years of your life to the analyst program is worth it. It gives you the credibility to pursue your interests more fully down the line, and also opens up yet more lucrative paths. While those are similar to IBD (eg PE), that income can give you a lot more options in pursuing your ultimate goals. Or you could just retire early.

You could stay on "the path" indefinitely, and retire a partner at a top PE firm. But, will your life have been as fulfilling as if you had taken a different path? I like finance, but I don't look at a spreadsheet or a deal and feel particularly satisfied.

4/19/11

can you set yourself hours anyway you want?

4/19/11

I ask myself if the analyst stint is worth it all the time. Is spending you're early 20s in front of a monitor rather than going out and meeting people, while getting decent pay and learning a lot really an effective way to develop talent? I'm not sure it is...Even if it is, hundreds, if not thousands of kids are taking this path, how do they distinguish themselves when everyone else they're competing with has the same experiences/skill set?

I probably could have networked and hustled a little more to land an analyst spot in IB. But when I was offered a spot in a corporate/commercial training program while I was still interviewing with IBanks, I thought, why not take this job where I'll have a decent work/life balance, learn a lot and lateral into a different role down the road? At the end of the day, I'm not convinced throwing away your earlier 20s pays off enough to make it worth it.

4/19/11

The real question is, what makes YOU happy? Where do you really want to be?

I think I am doing it right- I lived most of my 20's to the fullest, and have now landed at a new hedge fund, making 2-300k per year, probably a great deal more if we do well. There are a lot of people on here that are all "millions a year or bust" and I think most of them are really optimistic about their future prospects. Even in NYC, 200k is a lot of money. Sure you can be one of those guys that starts proclaiming the world ends at the Hudson and East rivers, but right over the river that money goes damn far, and above 90th street it seems to go even farther.

I am a bit different in that I grew up in the area as well. I have family and friends in the area, so a personal life was more important to me. If I transplanted from more than a few hundred miles away and didn't have anyone here except a few shallow friends I made along the way, the workaholic route would have been more attractive. "Stuff" doesn't make me happy. In fact, the older I get, the more unencumbered I want to be. I find I am happiest when I am around friends. That's what makes me happy. Some people, many who are on this board, like to throw their money around, and buy flashy stuff. I think the stuff ends up owning you. If your friends are sitting on your X thousand dollar couch w/ red wine and your blood pressure is rising because they are drunk and might spill it- you don't own that couch, that couch owns you.

Maybe you want the couch and some giant house or apartment on fifth. If so, keep your head down, and keep on banging out those power point edits. If not, remember its ok to leave at 7 to meet friends sometimes, or even to just go sit in the park on a warm evening.

I personally would rather sit on a plastic lawnchair in my buddy's backyard and drink some budlight with friends who aren't afraid to let loose than hang out at some charity event rubbing shoulders, with society, but that's a choice you have to make.

I think its important to remember that even when you "fail" and don't get MD, or VP by 30, or whatever, you are still killing it on an absolute scale.

4/19/11
someotherguy:

The real question is, what makes YOU happy? Where do you really want to be?

I think I am doing it right- I lived most of my 20's to the fullest, and have now landed at a new hedge fund, making 2-300k per year, probably a great deal more if we do well. There are a lot of people on here that are all "millions a year or bust" and I think most of them are really optimistic about their future prospects. Even in NYC, 200k is a lot of money. Sure you can be one of those guys that starts proclaiming the world ends at the Hudson and East rivers, but right over the river that money goes damn far, and above 90th street it seems to go even farther.

I am a bit different in that I grew up in the area as well. I have family and friends in the area, so a personal life was more important to me. If I transplanted from more than a few hundred miles away and didn't have anyone here except a few shallow friends I made along the way, the workaholic route would have been more attractive. "Stuff" doesn't make me happy. In fact, the older I get, the more unencumbered I want to be. I find I am happiest when I am around friends. That's what makes me happy. Some people, many who are on this board, like to throw their money around, and buy flashy stuff. I think the stuff ends up owning you. If your friends are sitting on your X thousand dollar couch w/ red wine and your blood pressure is rising because they are drunk and might spill it- you don't own that couch, that couch owns you.

Maybe you want the couch and some giant house or apartment on fifth. If so, keep your head down, and keep on banging out those power point edits. If not, remember its ok to leave at 7 to meet friends sometimes, or even to just go sit in the park on a warm evening.

I personally would rather sit on a plastic lawnchair in my buddy's backyard and drink some budlight with friends who aren't afraid to let loose than hang out at some charity event rubbing shoulders, with society, but that's a choice you have to make.

I think its important to remember that even when you "fail" and don't get MD, or VP by 30, or whatever, you are still killing it on an absolute scale.

Another great post. Definitely a fantastic thread, maybe a must read for eveyrone who want to break into finance. Money can't buy everything and social status isn't what will make you happy at the end of the Day, at least not for everyone.

4/20/11
TheSquale:
someotherguy:

The real question is, what makes YOU happy? Where do you really want to be?

I think I am doing it right- I lived most of my 20's to the fullest, and have now landed at a new hedge fund, making 2-300k per year, probably a great deal more if we do well. There are a lot of people on here that are all "millions a year or bust" and I think most of them are really optimistic about their future prospects. Even in NYC, 200k is a lot of money. Sure you can be one of those guys that starts proclaiming the world ends at the Hudson and East rivers, but right over the river that money goes damn far, and above 90th street it seems to go even farther.

I am a bit different in that I grew up in the area as well. I have family and friends in the area, so a personal life was more important to me. If I transplanted from more than a few hundred miles away and didn't have anyone here except a few shallow friends I made along the way, the workaholic route would have been more attractive. "Stuff" doesn't make me happy. In fact, the older I get, the more unencumbered I want to be. I find I am happiest when I am around friends. That's what makes me happy. Some people, many who are on this board, like to throw their money around, and buy flashy stuff. I think the stuff ends up owning you. If your friends are sitting on your X thousand dollar couch w/ red wine and your blood pressure is rising because they are drunk and might spill it- you don't own that couch, that couch owns you.

Maybe you want the couch and some giant house or apartment on fifth. If so, keep your head down, and keep on banging out those power point edits. If not, remember its ok to leave at 7 to meet friends sometimes, or even to just go sit in the park on a warm evening.

I personally would rather sit on a plastic lawnchair in my buddy's backyard and drink some budlight with friends who aren't afraid to let loose than hang out at some charity event rubbing shoulders, with society, but that's a choice you have to make.

I think its important to remember that even when you "fail" and don't get MD, or VP by 30, or whatever, you are still killing it on an absolute scale.

Another great post. Definitely a fantastic thread, maybe a must read for eveyrone who want to break into finance. Money can't buy everything and social status isn't what will make you happy at the end of the Day, at least not for everyone.

those words from alexpasch is great!
someotherguy brings out the point of how to enjoy life. the freaking commercial just washes our mind and value. it's a kind of inception thing. i think those are huge traps chasing all those running around in the wild. we might get tired and follow their rules to be happy. just hate the way they packaging things : cars/ houses/ jobs/ boats/ girls*.

it doesn't need to be expensive to be good, it doesn't need to be expensive to live a good life. *price is what you pay, value is what you get *

4/23/11
TheSquale:
someotherguy:

The real question is, what makes YOU happy? Where do you really want to be?

I think I am doing it right- I lived most of my 20's to the fullest, and have now landed at a new hedge fund, making 2-300k per year, probably a great deal more if we do well. There are a lot of people on here that are all "millions a year or bust" and I think most of them are really optimistic about their future prospects. Even in NYC, 200k is a lot of money. Sure you can be one of those guys that starts proclaiming the world ends at the Hudson and East rivers, but right over the river that money goes damn far, and above 90th street it seems to go even farther.

I am a bit different in that I grew up in the area as well. I have family and friends in the area, so a personal life was more important to me. If I transplanted from more than a few hundred miles away and didn't have anyone here except a few shallow friends I made along the way, the workaholic route would have been more attractive. "Stuff" doesn't make me happy. In fact, the older I get, the more unencumbered I want to be. I find I am happiest when I am around friends. That's what makes me happy. Some people, many who are on this board, like to throw their money around, and buy flashy stuff. I think the stuff ends up owning you. If your friends are sitting on your X thousand dollar couch w/ red wine and your blood pressure is rising because they are drunk and might spill it- you don't own that couch, that couch owns you.

Maybe you want the couch and some giant house or apartment on fifth. If so, keep your head down, and keep on banging out those power point edits. If not, remember its ok to leave at 7 to meet friends sometimes, or even to just go sit in the park on a warm evening.

I personally would rather sit on a plastic lawnchair in my buddy's backyard and drink some budlight with friends who aren't afraid to let loose than hang out at some charity event rubbing shoulders, with society, but that's a choice you have to make.

I think its important to remember that even when you "fail" and don't get MD, or VP by 30, or whatever, you are still killing it on an absolute scale.

Another great post. Definitely a fantastic thread, maybe a must read for eveyrone who want to break into finance. Money can't buy everything and social status isn't what will make you happy at the end of the Day, at least not for everyone.

I also agree that anyone that is interested in Wall Street should read this thread. I did consulting after undergrad then figured if I am gonna work this amount of hours I should just move to banking where at least I will be paid for the hours that I was putting in. I moved to equity research where the hours aren't as sick as banking but I looked and saw that the analyst that I worked for was traveling about 75% of the time and when he wasn't traveling he was on the phone every other second just trying to sell non stop. He made $1M a year, but he NEVER saw his family at all. His wife was at the country club each day and the nanny had the kids, but I just looked at his life and thought it was a waste, living out of a hotel room 75% of the time seemed miserable to me. It doesn't matter how much money you make if you have no life does it? I sat back and tried to figure out how much I was willing to give up for the money. I realized that no matter how much I loved being in finance really because I was drawn to the prestige, I loved the feeling that in the game of "life" I had won, I was one of the winners, on the top, etc...., that I hated not having a life more. So I gave up the "wow factor" job and took a corporate development job and work about 45 hours a week, make well into the 6 figures and live in Chicago where the cost of living is half of what it is in Manhattan. I never have to worry about missing things that I really want to do b/c I don't know where I am on a project with a ridiculous due date. My only worry is that later on in life there may be some things that I won't be able to do b/c of money, like sending kids to prep schools, etc..but having a life is more important, you only get to live once, you only get one trip around the track, I don't want to waste it killing myself for money. Similarly to a poster before, when you are lying there on your deathbed do you really care about how much money you amassed or will you think about all the cool things you were able to do with your friends and the people you loved.

4/19/11

Following this thread really makes me think but as much as i'm trying to understand the point alexpasch and others are making, I just cannot.

I understand why you feel this way about life, and I'd like to have that but I cant and many others cant. You just don't get how privileged you are living where you live, not just because of a generally high standard, but loads of opportunites everywhere. And this sort of casual attitude and "just live life" are in my view a consequence of being spoiled and having everything in abundance (relative abundance).

I get it, you can say fuck you to your boss and still have a great life. Good for you. Try doing that in a place where GDP is 20% of USA average, people are still communists and the best you can do with a finance degree is get a government job with an average wage (starting salary is 11k per year srsly), so maybe one day when your parents die you can finally live with your wife alone and IBD is your ONLY ticket out. No prospects, no future, no nothing. A fucking depressing place. So i'm willing to give up my 20's as much as i hate to, but its ok as long as i can stay in London...

your thinking reminds me of lord byron... aristocracy with time to think about how awful life is if you spend it on doing work and how tragic it is not hanging out with friends.

4/20/11
thor1000:

Following this thread really makes me think but as much as i'm trying to understand the point alexpasch and others are making, I just cannot.

I understand why you feel this way about life, and I'd like to have that but I cant and many others cant. You just don't get how privileged you are living where you live, not just because of a generally high standard, but loads of opportunites everywhere. And this sort of casual attitude and "just live life" are in my view a consequence of being spoiled and having everything in abundance (relative abundance).

I get it, you can say fuck you to your boss and still have a great life. Good for you. Try doing that in a place where GDP is 20% of USA average, people are still communists and the best you can do with a finance degree is get a government job with an average wage (starting salary is 11k per year srsly), so maybe one day when your parents die you can finally live with your wife alone and IBD is your ONLY ticket out. No prospects, no future, no nothing. A fucking depressing place. So i'm willing to give up my 20's as much as i hate to, but its ok as long as i can stay in London...

your thinking reminds me of lord byron... aristocracy with time to think about how awful life is if you spend it on doing work and how tragic it is not hanging out with friends.

That's actually a really interesting point of view. If I understand right, you are saying that because we do have this opportunity, we should make the most of it and just put our heads down for 70+ hours a week. It kind of turns the whole workaholics as greedy assholes trying to get the house in the hamptons stereotype on its head.

I have to think about this a little more, and I think I agree with your general idea, but I guess where we diverge is that I think the real motive behind most people working here is to accumulate assets far in excess of what they need to live even a comfortable life, for the purpose of consumption on a luxury lifestyle. Also, I consider working the "light" track to be in the 50-55 hour a week range- maybe you have a more severe view of what hard work is. I am not saying watch the clock and bolt out at 5pm every day so you can go sit on your ass and play Xbox, I am saying stop missing your best friend's birthday outing, take a mental health day every now and then and just leave early (6pm) to enjoy life. The powerpoint will always be there, your friends will eventually drift away as you are always unavailable.

4/19/11

I think it's worth it if you can put your 2 years in, work hard, and then grab a HF or Corp Dev. role. That or go straight to b-school and lateral that into one of those roles with a better work/life balance.

4/20/11

Great thread everyone.

thor1000 brought up a valid point that nobody else did - Are you really bitching about how, ohhh nooo...youre making 100-200k doing mindless IBD jobs, yet this still isn't good enough because you wont be able to retire at 30?

This is not a difficult situation, more like a high value problem. Akin to having 2 girls on your arm and having to choose which one (only one) to sleep with - the choice is yours, and why bother saying 'what if?'

Live in the moment, nobody is forcing you to stay anywhere. However, being your own boss and making the big bucks another way doesn't come easy as well.
Dont like IBD? Theres trading. Cant trade? Theres some corporate level jobs which love ex-IBDers. Nothing there either? Start your own thing, be your own boss, decide your own hours, and make it big. Or die (not) trying.

4/20/11
zeropower:

Great thread everyone.

thor1000 brought up a valid point that nobody else did - Are you really bitching about how, ohhh nooo...youre making 100-200k doing mindless IBD jobs, yet this still isn't good enough because you wont be able to retire at 30?

This is not a difficult situation, more like a high value problem. Akin to having 2 girls on your arm and having to choose which one (only one) to sleep with - the choice is yours, and why bother saying 'what if?'

Live in the moment, nobody is forcing you to stay anywhere. However, being your own boss and making the big bucks another way doesn't come easy as well.
Dont like IBD? Theres trading. Cant trade? Theres some corporate level jobs which love ex-IBDers. Nothing there either? Start your own thing, be your own boss, decide your own hours, and make it big. Or die (not) trying.

hopefully, i can tell whether it feels good to have 2 girls on your arms one day. at this point, i think it only works in those MV with bling bling*. if you are getting too busy, how can you enjoy and have the real taste of it?

4/20/11

This is for the guys who are saying "well I can just give up my twenties."

Here is something I didn't bring up in my previous post- you only get to live your 20's once. And I think right now is probably the best time to be in your 20's well... ever. It used to be- and still is in the south and I am sure other areas- that by 25, you were expected to be married, with kids popping out. Now, it is accepted if not expected that you won't be doing that until you are 30 or so, so really for the first time that I am aware of in history, its acceptable to just do your own thing while you have freedom, relatively few obligations other than paying rent, and have a bit of spending money to play with. Females are still looking hot and wanting to have fun but both the hotness and willingness to hang out in bars starts sloping off pretty quickly after 25. Not to mention that hangovers start getting way worse around 30.

And your friends are in the same boat. The best times of my life were in my early- late 20s hands down. People will tell you that when you have kids, its great and all, and I am sure it is in its own way. But I haven't shared laughs with my married friends, and even more so my married w/ kids friends, like I have when we were all single together without mortgages.

Don't discount your 20s one bit. If you asked those MDs you are aspiring to be if he would trade in all the money he has to be 20 again, I bet he would.

5/4/11
someotherguy:

This is for the guys who are saying "well I can just give up my twenties."

Here is something I didn't bring up in my previous post- you only get to live your 20's once. And I think right now is probably the best time to be in your 20's well... ever. It used to be- and still is in the south and I am sure other areas- that by 25, you were expected to be married, with kids popping out. Now, it is accepted if not expected that you won't be doing that until you are 30 or so, so really for the first time that I am aware of in history, its acceptable to just do your own thing while you have freedom, relatively few obligations other than paying rent, and have a bit of spending money to play with. Females are still looking hot and wanting to have fun but both the hotness and willingness to hang out in bars starts sloping off pretty quickly after 25. Not to mention that hangovers start getting way worse around 30.

And your friends are in the same boat. The best times of my life were in my early- late 20s hands down. People will tell you that when you have kids, its great and all, and I am sure it is in its own way. But I haven't shared laughs with my married friends, and even more so my married w/ kids friends, like I have when we were all single together without mortgages.

Don't discount your 20s one bit. If you asked those MDs you are aspiring to be if he would trade in all the money he has to be 20 again, I bet he would.

Great point. Do what I did and start IB in the 30's. I lived my 20's while I still had the stamina. No in my 30's and it's all down hill from here. Why not work 90 hour weeks? What am I going to miss out on? Bar days are old. I'm married. Already have kids. No social life anyway. Hey, why not use it to my advantage and make some money. I don't want to retire at 65, well, by the time at 65 retirement will be at 70 or 75. Enjoy the twenties.

4/20/11

Hey, what about the best time of your life is between 15 and 80 y.o.?

If you guys plan to have fun during your 20's only, you're just a bunch of losers. Working hard and having a good time are not mutually exclusive. Merriness comes from within.

That being said, I don't work 90 hrs a week.

4/20/11
mxc:

Merriness comes from within.

Gayest line ever...

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

4/20/11

OP thanks for the post. I don't think I have ever been so happy to have spent 6 years of my life making <45K annually while serving in the military, drinking with friends, and traveling my early 20s away. Now at 26 (27 in about 2 weeks) I'm living the fun life of a college kid, and about to start my first SA gig in about a month. I will probably always be considered "behind" everyone else, but the ride has been fun as hell, and I would do it all over again. So as I approach my late 20s and get ready to start as an analyst by the time I'm 28. I have no regrets having taken a non-traditional path. My overpriced Ivy undergrad is paid for thanks to Uncle Sam. I'm on track to earn between 100 and 200k in the first few years of finance. And, having partied my ass off earlier, I feel okay with the idea of toning down my lifestyle for work in the near future.

...It's funny, for all the congratulations I get for being a hard luck case that is finally "making it," I find that I have had a better quality of life compared to the early 20 year olds focused on being the next big thing in finance. I guess it really just comes down to what you want out of life and how you define success.

TLDR; OP you are young once. So whether it's a killing it at your job to become the man you want to be one day, or redefining your lifestyle so that you can experience your early 20s in a way that makes sense to you, enjoy what you do. There really is no wrong way to live.

I'm sorry if any if this comes off as preachy. It's not my intention.

4/20/11

Well yea, like you said the motives are quite different, I am aware of that. And I imagine most people here arguing for the "easier lifestyle" have those exact motives you described, which are not just a product of environment but also personality. I'm not trying force you to work hard and like it, stay in IBD and waste your 20's. And I dont blame you that you won't take the opportunity and exploit it as much as you can.

But what I am trying to "force" is that those here who are saying how wasteful is spending your 20's in IB, how only retards would do that, consider the fact that some of us have different motives and feel lucky just to have an opportunity to do what we like while getting out of a shithole place at the same time.

Maybe its just me, but it seems like the pursuit of happiness got out of hand here, some here just seem obsessive about happiness... 100+ week doesnt make you happy sure, but worrying about every single extra effort that might reduce your happiness, also cant make you happy in the end.

4/21/11

Has anyone ever retired before 25? You know full blown liquidation, buy a sailboat and go sailing?

4/21/11
panther2k:

Monkeys,

Is that really the wisest way to spend what is left of my youth?

Go out and spend some of the hard earned money on some dirty sluts...

And be sure to remember that you'll get a 2-year break if you go back to B-school to get an MBA, which will give you a few more dollars to re-do your college experience and best enjoy what's left of your 20's...

I might be too strung out on compliments, overdosed on confidence
Started not to give a fuck and stopped fearing the consequence
Drinking every night cuz we drink to my accomplishments
Faded way too long, I'm floatin' in and out of consciousness

I b

4/23/11

most ppl do not realize that in order to do this job and not break down, u NEED to like it, just like any other job, but u need to like this (100-40) hours more p/w. the fact that u will earn a bit more money than ur peers ( so not fuk u money) is a motive that quickly dissolves itself... most ppl in IBD are ppl who think they are smarter than most peers, think they deserve more in life for that, but have no balls to go out and make it on their own, so are content with earning more than their peers and taking it up the loophole every day from some MD out there...i believe its called risk aversion :)

4/23/11
EverydayJeans:

most ppl do not realize that in order to do this job and not break down, u NEED to like it, just like any other job

Not to mention, I suspect it's hard to be really good at it if you lack that passion. And if you're not that good at it, why would you get promoted, why would you get hired by a great PE firm, etc.?

4/23/11
econ:
EverydayJeans:

most ppl do not realize that in order to do this job and not break down, u NEED to like it, just like any other job

Not to mention, I suspect it's hard to be really good at it if you lack that passion. And if you're not that good at it, why would you get promoted, why would you get hired by a great PE firm, etc.?

oh, is that why you are both fund managers, beating the market for the last 10 years with 1bn$ AUM and a unique investment strategy that somehow involves posting on WSO

4/23/11

ha, i didnt say im not one of those ppl ;)

4/23/11
EverydayJeans:

ha, i didnt say im not one of those ppl ;)

lol, quite right... still millions would cut of their balls for an IBD job, no matter how passionless it is

4/23/11
thor1000:

still millions would cut of their balls for an IBD job, no matter how passionless it is

Not all IB Analysts go on to have highly successful careers. They make the same mistake as many other people - assuming that getting a job in IB will solve many of their professional problems. Just like so many people think that getting into an Ivy League school will necessarily make them a success. At the end of the day, it's really about you as an individual and what you bring to the table. I suspect that the people who would cut their balls off for an IB job, and continue doing it without passion, are likely to wind up as mediocre bankers.

4/23/11

boom..lawyered

econ:
thor1000:

still millions would cut of their balls for an IBD job, no matter how passionless it is

Not all IB Analysts go on to have highly successful careers. They make the same mistake as many other people - assuming that getting a job in IB will solve many of their professional problems. Just like so many people think that getting into an Ivy League school will necessarily make them a success. At the end of the day, it's really about you as an individual and what you bring to the table. I suspect that the people who would cut their balls off for an IB job, and continue doing it without passion, are likely to wind up as mediocre bankers.

I'm making it up as I go along.

4/23/11

The best years in your life is 0-6. No responsibility, two caring parents cater to all of your needs, playing all day.

Now lets try to actually use our brains(which alot of you seem to lack but hey) and be a bit reflective here.

Your preferences change with age.

I dont sit around all day and cry about my best 6 years being over and I am not able to play all day.

Our grandparents don't sit around crying about how they are not getting drunk and laid all day.

This whole the 20s are the best time of your life is bullshit.

Yeah they are the best time of your life from your current viewpoint.

A retiree might think his 60s are the best time of his life, because hes rich(if he worked hard and didnt bum around all his life, then yeah his 20s were probably best), accomplished, doesn't have to proof himself or give a fuck, just sees his kids and grandkids growing up, travels the worlds etc...

In fact our grandparents generation who has seen one world war, possible deportation and other atrocities sure as hell prefers their current life in safety and comfort.

Plus its not like you give your enire 20s, the 2+2 pathcosts you 4 years, theres still loads remaining.

Now go to talk to some 35 year old stuck in a dead end job making 60k/year and ask him if he would have preferred to work harder when there was still time?

You have most leverage over your career at a young age, use it.

That said yeah IBD sux, the work is mostly retarded, pointless, and repetitive. just go into trading duh.

4/23/11

YES! Hail leveredarb

4/23/11

Being a 25 yr old and in the same line of business i have had countless days of this very thought. I have figured out that this is not what i want to do.

i am a trader so i can give a bit of insight into S&T role. my first year i was a trainee and there is nothing worse than being a trainee on a trading floor ( yes, worse than being an analyst in ibd). So when you switch to trading or sales remember you will still be the bitch of the desk. Then when you finally get into full time trading it becomes a numbers game. you buy low sell high and that's all you do ( nothing greatly intellectual). slowly and finally you start taking big positions, you can either make a lot of money or lose even more. then you start hoping and praying for another tsunami, nuclear power-plant failure, just because it helps you make some dough -----> if you can live with this then yeah go for it. On the other hand, it is great money and a great work life balance usually you wont work much after five. not many jobs can boast of this.

I know some people have made comments about quitting after few years and retiring after 30, good luck. all of us in finance hate our lives now and still cant quit (barely two years in) , imagine how hrd it'll be when you have a fancy big house, a gold digger wife and few kids going to private school --- money ropes us all in. We are all nothing but whores selling ourselves to the highest bidder .... i have talked to few of my directors and mds, and they would have liked nothing more than to quit years ago but they got too comfy with the money.

I think you'll have to work hard in any job, putting in a of time and effort. If you start your own thing, you'll be tied to it 24/7. Yes you wont have a boss but you will be dealing with a lot of shit from customers to suppliers. and in the beginning you'll probably live hand to mouth, putting all the extra cash into your business worrying about staying afloat. it wont be until years that your business starts paying off. Dont think by that time you'll be in your 20's anymore.

4/28/11

Nvm, I used the search bar.

4/23/11

great thread. as someone looking in from the outside wanting to break in, it's a big wake up call for me and a reminder that i shouldn't be mistaken that my life will be perfect once i break in.

4/24/11

guys, point is u dont do this for the money, cuz the money aint big. just a bit bigger than ur typical former classmate or the kid that used to beat u at basketball everyday. and if u make it MD, what , ull have 10m somewhere down the line? so what.

4/24/11

This is a tough call. A lot of people want financial security because they didn't grow up having a lot of things. A lot of people are greedy. It really comes down to the person. I definitely plan to break into finance somehow and if I make a lot of money, it won't control me. I come from a family that makes a ridiculously low amount of money, yet I'm still happy. All you need is friends, family, and time. I want to go into finance because of money. I know I can balance it out having my best friends nearby and spending time with family. Hopefully it works out!

4/24/11

While your 20's can certainly be a great time, some people simply like activities and have hobbies that require more money. While I enjoy drinking beer in a dive bar, playing video games, etc, I much rather be skiing or sitting on a boat in Capri, that aint cheap.

Basically, if you don't have expensive taste you better develop some because otherwise it will be difficult to motivate yourself.

4/25/11
awm55:

While your 20's can certainly be a great time, some people simply like activities and have hobbies that require more money. While I enjoy drinking beer in a dive bar, playing video games, etc, I much rather be skiing or sitting on a boat in Capri, that aint cheap.

Basically, if you don't have expensive taste you better develop some because otherwise it will be difficult to motivate yourself.

kudos

Get busy living

4/25/11
awm55:

While your 20's can certainly be a great time, some people simply like activities and have hobbies that require more money. While I enjoy drinking beer in a dive bar, playing video games, etc, I much rather be skiing or sitting on a boat in Capri, that aint cheap.

Basically, if you don't have expensive taste you better develop some because otherwise it will be difficult to motivate yourself.

this is a good point.

especially if you grew up in a wealthy environment you get used to that lifestyle, and if you do not want to siphon money off your parents for the rest of your life its time to start making some yourself.

4/25/11
leveredarb:
awm55:

While your 20's can certainly be a great time, some people simply like activities and have hobbies that require more money. While I enjoy drinking beer in a dive bar, playing video games, etc, I much rather be skiing or sitting on a boat in Capri, that aint cheap.

Basically, if you don't have expensive taste you better develop some because otherwise it will be difficult to motivate yourself.

this is a good point.

especially if you grew up in a wealthy environment you get used to that lifestyle, and if you do not want to siphon money off your parents for the rest of your life its time to start making some yourself.

Do it now while you're young. This stuff doesn't get easier. If you hit 25 or 27 and still hate it, guess what: you're still young and you are making good money...you'll find something else. You can always slack off and jump ship, but fighting your way into this system when your older is REALLY hard.

Get busy living

4/30/11

Also, P2P lending can be done through companies such as LendingClub. Search the threads. Eddie Braverman has posted about them numerous times and seems to be doing well for himself so far.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

5/2/11

It's only worth it if working in banking or PE or whatever will help you reach your end goal.

The point that you are wasting your 20s is moot. It's just really unfortunate that in our physical prime we aren't yet established or experienced enough to do what we (ultimately) want to do career-wise, and even worse that when we're our best looking and in the best health we are stuck studying in school or being the bottom of the totem pole.

I look at my med school friends and think they are probably wasting their 20s taking stool samples for old patients while working 80+ hr residencies for 3-5 years, then before that med school for 4 years. That's essentially their entire 20s and they haven't made a cent yet. But I can tell that this is what they want to do, and in order to do the med track they need to put in that time and investment. I'm pretty sure if they stop their progress midway to "live their 20s" and travel the globe for a couple years, borrow a lot, and then by the time they are 35-40 years old and seeing their peers and old friends being able to do what they thought they'd be doing, then they'd be regretting not buckling down and doing the grunt work that is required in their career.

Long rant, but whether or not finance is "worth it" to you or not really depends on how you see yourself long-term. Thinking only in the short-term will only take you for the next decade, but you still have half a century of living to go.

5/2/11

Excellent reasoning.

Besides personal preference I think the "wasting of 20's" is a sour grapes example. Some people who are convinced they are doing it right because they are having more fun, have an amazing amount of judgment towards those that don't have as much fun.

And they get angry, mad when I try to explaing how working hard is my choice. Even in this thread, guys advocating easier lifestyle got really passionate about it. As far as I know, those who are truly at peace with their decision to take it easy and have fun absolutely never judge or intentionally criticise those of us who are different in that aspect.

So here's the sour grape. They must know that working harder, being smart and giving up things to advance your career gets you places eventually, so either they arent able to be dedicated enough, don't have the success, intelligence, discipline, or maybe they have all that but havent been given a chance to show it in any case they feel somewhat threatened by others more willing to give up their 20's and actual chance of success.

Anyway, are those who waste their 20's the ones who are fooling themselves with denial that it is what they want, or is it the other way around? Somethimes I get the feeling that the people loudly advocating the easy lifestyle are fooling themselves that easy going is what they want. Freud would have to say a lot about those defence mechanisms... rationalization comes to mind

5/2/11

hahahahah

Let me preface by saying that 99% of the people on this earth aren't shit. Including all of us here. I'm not saying this in a condescending way. This is reality.

IBD or the banking/finance sector in general is one of the few sectors where you're given a real shot to move into that 1%. Most everyone won't of course but the opportunity is there and that's the most important thing.

What is all this talk bout begin treated like shit? Since when does a high 5 figure salary plus 30%, 40%, 50%, or even higher bonuses constitute being treated like shit? You people are naive. Yeh I know the hours but it's not like we do manual labor for 14 hours a day.

Let me tell you a story. lol
During my senior year of college I decided to take the "I'll just get a 40k job and chill" mentality. After I graduated college I did just that. Got a job where I was moved in to a department that was run like shit. I worked my ass off for 8 months and the boss demoted my manager (moved him to another department to work under another manager) and put me in charge. All this time I knew I was under paid for the work I did but oh well, soon enough I'll get the raise. When I was promoted, did I get a raise? No. 2 month probation period and then we'll talk said the boss. I knew this was bullshit but what can I do right?Either quit or go on. Quit and do what? GO somewhere similar? What';s the point? The bullshit you know is better than the one you don't.
After 2 months I had to chase the boss for another month to give me the raise. A measly 5k at that. I had to explain why I deserved it for 30 min even though he already knew all this shit.

Fast forward 3 months and it dawned on me. This is what dead end means. Yeh I'm productive and go above and beyond but where do I move from here? There's literally no where to move up. Only laterally. The next step is the boss's position. lol Is he giving that up even if you may be the better person for the position? Laterally means same shitty pay.

So about a year in I fully realized what the fuck it's like to be in a dead end, shitty position where you're not really valued.

I received 1 bonus in the 2 years which was there. A whopping $300 and that was the highest sum given to a few of us. Most got 250 or 200. Not even a week's pay. I was still grateful because 300 is better than 0, even though on the realtive shit scale it's still shit. Many folks don't get a bonus at all.

So I started applying for gigs in finance which I was always interested in (graduated with a BS in financial econ; don;t know if that helped or not). In interviews I just laid it all out. I had the hunger for the positions and I could truly appreciate the opportunities that they brought. Thankfully someone took a shot on me and I got an analyst position.

Moral of the story is; a lot of my peers don't have that hunger because they don't know how good they have it. A lot had the huger to apply and push for the job through college but in hindsight that was prob because they just wanted the image of being " in banking".

If you don't have the hunger and don't appreciate what you''ve got then GTFO. Seriously. You're just as replaceable as any Mcdonald's burger flipper. There are always more folks willing to go into IBD then positions. So GTFO and give some of them a shot. Go do whatever you want to do. See how pretty the world really is.

As for hours. I don';t believe in working long hours for long hours sake. A lot of you don't seem to know how to prioritize your time or just know when you can leave early and when it wouldn't be the most advisable thing to do.

This thread just pisses me off. What are you exactly missing? When I was working 60 hour weeks at the shitty job I wasn't missing shit. Get up at 7 come back at 7:30/8. Go to the gym, eat, and then sleep. Rinse and repeat. I worked Sundays too so wtf? What exactly was so great about working 60 hours for shit pay and no future as apposed to working 80-90 hours with great pay and a ton of future opps?

If I could I'd piss in all your faces just for the sheer ignorance concerning reality and all the whining.

Let me just say again. If you don't like it then GTFO and make room for someone who will take advantage of the opportunity.

5/2/11
analystonsmack:

IBD or the banking/finance sector in general is one of the only sectors where you're given a real shot to move into that 1%.

Entrepreneurship?

5/2/11
econ:
analystonsmack:

IBD or the banking/finance sector in general is one of the only sectors where you're given a real shot to move into that 1%.

Entrepreneurship?

First, very few are really cut out in the first place.

Then for those that are cut out, for every successful Entrepreneur there are thousands of failures.

Also take into account that success in Entrepreneurship is cyclical depending on your business. Then add the variance inherent in life as well as the fact that you only have a set number of years to live and yeh.....

Very few really have what it takes. Far fewer then those that have the potential to make it in finance within an already established structure.

5/3/11
analystonsmack:
econ:
analystonsmack:

IBD or the banking/finance sector in general is one of the only sectors where you're given a real shot to move into that 1%.

Entrepreneurship?

First, very few are really cut out in the first place.

I just was referring to your 1% comment. In the book "The Millionaire Next Door" the authors discover that the overwhelming majority of millionaires own their own business. So, technically, that's the real shot to move into that 1%...

Also, you keep saying that most people aren't cut out for it. Does that mean most people are cut out for banking?

P.S. Entrepreneurship isn't necessarily cyclical. Some goods and services actually do better in recessions, while others do about the same in good times and bad. Finance on the other hand seems highly cyclical. I'm not saying that makes finance undesirable, just pointing out a fact.

5/2/11

.

5/2/11

Banking isn't cyclical at all. Your post is a rant and reasonably irrelevant. Sure, banking is a great stepping stone and definitely a great place to be for people who are motivated by money and career -- but that doesn't motivate everyone. This thread is highly individualistic and most everyone has different ideal situations. Who the hell would want to work 60 hours a week for shitty comp and no forward progress? No one. Of course you hated it. But not everyone is going to enjoy working 90 hours a week for good pay and good opportunities -- judging people for not wanting to do that is ridiculous.

5/3/11
jimbrowngoU:

Banking isn't cyclical at all. Your post is a rant and reasonably irrelevant. Sure, banking is a great stepping stone and definitely a great place to be for people who are motivated by money and career -- but that doesn't motivate everyone. This thread is highly individualistic and most everyone has different ideal situations. Who the hell would want to work 60 hours a week for shitty comp and no forward progress? No one. Of course you hated it. But not everyone is going to enjoy working 90 hours a week for good pay and good opportunities -- judging people for not wanting to do that is ridiculous.

Never said that banking is cyclical. Various businesses are. Would Buffet have been as successful if he tried what he did starting in the 90's? Prob not. The same opps weren't there. If Gates was born 10 years later, would he have co founded MSFT and would it have been as successful as it was/is?
Variance plays a big part in life. What makes one corner grocery store more successful then the one 2 blocks away? Is he really doing things that much differently. same goes for tons of other businesses.

You're making the same argument that people make when they say "money doesn't produce happiness". Sure it doesn't. That's true. However, money sure does contribute to it (if you're psychologically stable). The problem is many people are not and nothing will help them. If you are though, financial security helps quite a bit.

If these folks can't recognize the opportunity that they are given then they're free to move on. Nobody will miss them. Maybe someone will come in that truly values it.

5/3/11
analystonsmack:
jimbrowngoU:

Banking isn't cyclical at all. Your post is a rant and reasonably irrelevant. Sure, banking is a great stepping stone and definitely a great place to be for people who are motivated by money and career -- but that doesn't motivate everyone. This thread is highly individualistic and most everyone has different ideal situations. Who the hell would want to work 60 hours a week for shitty comp and no forward progress? No one. Of course you hated it. But not everyone is going to enjoy working 90 hours a week for good pay and good opportunities -- judging people for not wanting to do that is ridiculous.

Never said that banking is cyclical. Various businesses are. Would Buffet have been as successful if he tried what he did starting in the 90's? Prob not. The same opps weren't there. If Gates was born 10 years later, would he have co founded MSFT and would it have been as successful as it was/is?
Variance plays a big part in life. What makes one corner grocery store more successful then the one 2 blocks away? Is he really doing things that much differently. same goes for tons of other businesses.

You're making the same argument that people make when they say "money doesn't produce happiness". Sure it doesn't. That's true. However, money sure does contribute to it (if you're psychologically stable). The problem is many people are not and nothing will help them. If you are though, financial security helps quite a bit.

If these folks can't recognize the opportunity that they are given then they're free to move on. Nobody will miss them. Maybe someone will come in that truly values it.

I believe you are grasping at something Malcolm Gladwell wrote. Cyclical is not the word to use here - rather, you mean that certain entrepreneurs get lucky and start their businesses in ideal economic environments.

5/3/11
LeveragedFiend:
analystonsmack:
jimbrowngoU:

Banking isn't cyclical at all. Your post is a rant and reasonably irrelevant. Sure, banking is a great stepping stone and definitely a great place to be for people who are motivated by money and career -- but that doesn't motivate everyone. This thread is highly individualistic and most everyone has different ideal situations. Who the hell would want to work 60 hours a week for shitty comp and no forward progress? No one. Of course you hated it. But not everyone is going to enjoy working 90 hours a week for good pay and good opportunities -- judging people for not wanting to do that is ridiculous.

Never said that banking is cyclical. Various businesses are. Would Buffet have been as successful if he tried what he did starting in the 90's? Prob not. The same opps weren't there. If Gates was born 10 years later, would he have co founded MSFT and would it have been as successful as it was/is?
Variance plays a big part in life. What makes one corner grocery store more successful then the one 2 blocks away? Is he really doing things that much differently. same goes for tons of other businesses.

You're making the same argument that people make when they say "money doesn't produce happiness". Sure it doesn't. That's true. However, money sure does contribute to it (if you're psychologically stable). The problem is many people are not and nothing will help them. If you are though, financial security helps quite a bit.

If these folks can't recognize the opportunity that they are given then they're free to move on. Nobody will miss them. Maybe someone will come in that truly values it.

I believe you are grasping at something Malcolm Gladwell wrote. Cyclical is not the word to use here - rather, you mean that certain entrepreneurs get lucky and start their businesses in ideal economic environments.

If luck = variance then yes. Although tech/ industrial booms, social norms, etc. are cyclical in the historical sense as well. Just on a very long time line.

5/3/11

Jesus Christ, the more I read about how unhappy IB analysts are, the more I'm glad I didn't go the "traditional" route

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

6/29/11

WSO monkeys drool all over entrepreneurship...

5/3/11

You're completely neglecting the whole lifestyle thing. If we were talking 60 hours a week vs. 60 hours a week, someone would have to be a looney to pass up on the job that pays more money (unless they truly love the other opportunity). But when you're talking 60 vs. 90 hours a week, there's a significant difference and it is very dependent on who the person is and what they value in life. Personally, I'm thankful to have had this opportunity to learn a ton and make a good amount of money at a young age, and I'd do it the same way if I got to go through life again, but friends, family, my hobbies, etc. are more important to me than tons and tons of money. Do I appreciate the opportunity I've had? Hell yes. Do I like making good money? Of course. Would I sacrifice some of that money to do something that works me less and is something I enjoy more? Absolutely, and in fact, I will be doing that. I'm not going from the $160k of a second-year to $50k per year, but I'll still be taking a pay cut to do something more enjoyable and life-style friendly, because that's what is important to me. But I'm not sitting here letting you tell me I don't appreciate or recognize the opportunity I've been presented with, because I absolutely do.

5/3/11
jimbrowngoU:

You're completely neglecting the whole lifestyle thing. If we were talking 60 hours a week vs. 60 hours a week, someone would have to be a looney to pass up on the job that pays more money (unless they truly love the other opportunity). But when you're talking 60 vs. 90 hours a week, there's a significant difference and it is very dependent on who the person is and what they value in life. Personally, I'm thankful to have had this opportunity to learn a ton and make a good amount of money at a young age, and I'd do it the same way if I got to go through life again, but friends, family, my hobbies, etc. are more important to me than tons and tons of money. Do I appreciate the opportunity I've had? Hell yes. Do I like making good money? Of course. Would I sacrifice some of that money to do something that works me less and is something I enjoy more? Absolutely, and in fact, I will be doing that. I'm not going from the $160k of a second-year to $50k per year, but I'll still be taking a pay cut to do something more enjoyable and life-style friendly, because that's what is important to me. But I'm not sitting here letting you tell me I don't appreciate or recognize the opportunity I've been presented with, because I absolutely do.

My statement wasn't directed at someone like you. It seems that you did finish your 2 or 3 year stint. You experienced it and didn't enjoy it. That's fine.
Some here are barely done with their 1st year and are already crying.

5/3/11

Not to shit on the carefree lifestyle, but partying through your 20's is not the only way to enjoy your life (or should I say get utility out of life?). Sure banking may suck, but those who do it get some sort of benefit out of it, whether that is the financial training, meeting and working with interesting people, or just surviving through a horrible experience and learning more about your preferences and desires. I believe you learn the most about yourself when you are challenged and placed in uncomfortable situations, and while the mindless tasks in banking may not be difficult to do, it is clear from this thread that the lifestyle challenges people psychologically (I am not saying you are mentally challenged).

That being said, I totally disagree with the idea that fun can only be consumed in the present. I will work hard in my job, but I will also remember all those awesome times in college when I had zero responsibilities. I will be happy that I was happy, and that it gave me a perspective on how to be happy. If I busted ass through college and had no fun, then it would be difficult to relate to that kind of debauchery. Life is a balance, don't judge people based on their personal desires and motivations.

5/3/11

To echo what analystonsmac said...you have no idea how tall of a brick wall you have (as far as career progression) in most "regular" industries.

Right now I'm an intern analyst at a small boutique, prior to this I was an engineer at a small public company (approx 300mm market cap). I worked there for one year full-time and I realized I was going absolutely no where.

You know how many people had been working there for 20+ years doing almost the same thing everyday? Making less than 100K? Almost 50% of the people I met. Even the Managers and Directors were making peanuts for the hours they were putting in (and this is after tons of years of experience)

I know this doesn't paint a picture of the overall landscape of corporate America, but if you want a Mon-Fri 40 Hour work 2 weeks paid vacation type of job then thats what life is like. A boring cubicle with very little chance of moving up, making more money or doing something exciting.

Atleast you know in IB you have something to look forward to in 2, or 4, or 6 years. In a regular corporate position, you have no idea when you will get a raise, no idea when you will be promoted, or what your exit opps are. No one will acknowledge your work either.

I gave up a 50K+ job right outta college to move into IB, because in the long run I know it will work out better.

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this

5/4/11

I just read this whole thread.

Very informative for someone looking in from the outside

5/4/11

It pains me to see something say this. Your in the position I want to be in. I work hard to get there and yet I am having trouble getting their. I would love to trade lives with you to work in that fast pace environment with lots to do. Sure you may not want to work it forever, but the experience is also something that other people are missing. If you can help me get in your shoes ill help you get in mine. That is a promise.

5/4/11
Ecalw001:

It pains me to see something say this. Your in the position I want to be in. I work hard to get there and yet I am having trouble getting their. I would love to trade lives with you to work in that fast pace environment with lots to do. Sure you may not want to work it forever, but the experience is also something that other people are missing. If you can help me get in your shoes ill help you get in mine. That is a promise.

That's a convenient position for someone on the outside looking in. The OP probably busted his ass off to get where he is, and I'm sure he appreciates that he's in a privileged position, but until you work those hours doing mostly menial shit, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've had one week where I worked over 90 hours, and it was brutal. I can't imagine that being my average week.

-MBP

5/6/11
manbearpig:
Ecalw001:

It pains me to see something say this. Your in the position I want to be in. I work hard to get there and yet I am having trouble getting their. I would love to trade lives with you to work in that fast pace environment with lots to do. Sure you may not want to work it forever, but the experience is also something that other people are missing. If you can help me get in your shoes ill help you get in mine. That is a promise.

That's a convenient position for someone on the outside looking in. The OP probably busted his ass off to get where he is, and I'm sure he appreciates that he's in a privileged position, but until you work those hours doing mostly menial shit, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've had one week where I worked over 90 hours, and it was brutal. I can't imagine that being my average week.

I believe that, but that leaves me to believe the person in that position thought every warning he received is a joke. I am not in that position as you nicely stated, however i understand that if I ever do make it into that position, i will be working 80-90 hours a week looking at the computer screen making pitches and the such. I understand that there are some down weeks as-well. If someone questions their placement they have worked so hard to achieve, then why should they continue to be in that place?

5/6/11
Ecalw001:
manbearpig:
Ecalw001:

It pains me to see something say this. Your in the position I want to be in. I work hard to get there and yet I am having trouble getting their. I would love to trade lives with you to work in that fast pace environment with lots to do. Sure you may not want to work it forever, but the experience is also something that other people are missing. If you can help me get in your shoes ill help you get in mine. That is a promise.

That's a convenient position for someone on the outside looking in. The OP probably busted his ass off to get where he is, and I'm sure he appreciates that he's in a privileged position, but until you work those hours doing mostly menial shit, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've had one week where I worked over 90 hours, and it was brutal. I can't imagine that being my average week.

I believe that, but that leaves me to believe the person in that position thought every warning he received is a joke. I am not in that position as you nicely stated, however i understand that if I ever do make it into that position, i will be working 80-90 hours a week looking at the computer screen making pitches and the such. I understand that there are some down weeks as-well. If someone questions their placement they have worked so hard to achieve, then why should they continue to be in that place?

Dude, you may know you need to work those hours, but you have no idea what it feels like to work those hours. In theory, it's easy enough to say "yeah, two years of hell, then the rest of your life - no problem", but that's just not how things play out sometimes.

-MBP

5/4/11

The OP asks himself: "Is it worth it?"
The lazy guy who makes 40K asks himself: "What if ..., I could have been ...."
For me there is nothing worse than thinking about what could have been.

5/10/11
jaymo:

The OP asks himself: "Is it worth it?"
The lazy guy who makes 40K asks himself: "What if ..., I could have been ...."
For me there is nothing worse than thinking about what could have been.

Great Post

5/11/11
thefork:
jaymo:

The OP asks himself: "Is it worth it?"
The lazy guy who makes 40K asks himself: "What if ..., I could have been ...."
For me there is nothing worse than thinking about what could have been.

Great Post

Yep, I woke up one day and realized "I could be doing a whole lot more with my life" and it SUCKS to realize that. Go full throttle hardcore now, and then relax later on if you like. It's much harder to be unfocused and then try to get your ducks in a row.....

Besides, what else are you going to do? If it's not something you will care about at 30 or 40, then don't waste your time now......

Get busy living

5/4/11

Its not the hours its the degrading often meaningless work you do.

5/5/11
awm55:

Its not the hours its the degrading often meaningless work you do.

are people dim or simply ignorant. Literally 99% of jobs are composed of meaningless/degrading(? what does that even mean? Are you cleaning shit from porta-potties?) work.

Welcome to .........earth?

5/5/11
analystonsmack:
awm55:

Its not the hours its the degrading often meaningless work you do.

are people dim or simply ignorant. Literally 99% of jobs are composed of meaningless/degrading(? what does that even mean? Are you cleaning shit from porta-potties?) work.

Welcome to .........earth?

In direct comparison to S&T the work in IBD is meaningless (editing power point presentation and making pitch books is not intellectually stimulating) and your contribution is nearly impossible to quantify until you are at the senior ranks.

5/5/11
awm55:
analystonsmack:
awm55:

Its not the hours its the degrading often meaningless work you do.

are people dim or simply ignorant. Literally 99% of jobs are composed of meaningless/degrading(? what does that even mean? Are you cleaning shit from porta-potties?) work.

Welcome to .........earth?

In direct comparison to S&T the work in IBD is meaningless (editing power point presentation and making pitch books is not intellectually stimulating) and your contribution is nearly impossible to quantify until you are at the senior ranks.

Run of the mill S&T work is also meaningless in the scheme of things. There's nothing inherently groundbreaking in the vast majority of work.

5/5/11
analystonsmack:
awm55:
analystonsmack:
awm55:

Its not the hours its the degrading often meaningless work you do.

are people dim or simply ignorant. Literally 99% of jobs are composed of meaningless/degrading(? what does that even mean? Are you cleaning shit from porta-potties?) work.

Welcome to .........earth?

In direct comparison to S&T the work in IBD is meaningless (editing power point presentation and making pitch books is not intellectually stimulating) and your contribution is nearly impossible to quantify until you are at the senior ranks.

Run of the mill S&T work is also meaningless in the scheme of things. There's nothing inherently groundbreaking in the vast majority of work.

I don't think its a secret that S&T is a far more innovative and intellectually stimulating area of finance than IBD.

5/5/11
awm55:
analystonsmack:
awm55:
analystonsmack:
awm55:

Its not the hours its the degrading often meaningless work you do.

are people dim or simply ignorant. Literally 99% of jobs are composed of meaningless/degrading(? what does that even mean? Are you cleaning shit from porta-potties?) work.

Welcome to .........earth?

In direct comparison to S&T the work in IBD is meaningless (editing power point presentation and making pitch books is not intellectually stimulating) and your contribution is nearly impossible to quantify until you are at the senior ranks.

Run of the mill S&T work is also meaningless in the scheme of things. There's nothing inherently groundbreaking in the vast majority of work.

I don't think its a secret that S&T is a far more innovative and intellectually stimulating area of finance than IBD.

S&T also has even less tangible contributions to society than IBD though. What do S&T guys contribute? Liquidity and prices of tradable goods closer to what they should be trading at... Perhaps you could also say they help allocate capital to companies doing well?

In IBD at least you get to say you helped company X raise capital to expand and build factories so it can bring its products to more people, and you also get to see synergies form between companies you help merge. Not always going to work out great for the companies you advise, but same goes for S&T and bets you make as a trader.

I think they're both really important and, although the work you do in either may seem meaningless at times, the work has to get done by someone or neither can contribute meaningful work.

5/5/11
analystonsmack:

There's nothing inherently groundbreaking in the vast majority of work.

Exactly. That's why everyone has to find the thing they're passionate about. For some people it's IB, for others S&T, for others teaching 3rd grade math. There's no one-size fits all solution here, as people (and therefore preferences) are unique.

5/5/11

What I think awm meant was, it's not JUST the hours but the degrading and often meaningless worked you are asked to do into the wee hours of the morning (sometimes all night) on a very consistent basis.

5/5/11

If you wanted to save the children in Africa you should have majored in social work and caught the first coach flight to Uganda....but you chose finance, so stick with it and it will pay off. I can't say I understand your perspective since I'm not in your shoes, but I will say this that if you work hard you'll reap the rewards. You worked your ass off to be in this position, you knew it wouldn't be easy and now when the going gets tough, you need to get tough and get going. I'm 23 as well, and I can tell you we have our whole lives ahead of us to do meaningful things. Just stay focused and you'll be fine. Just don't let the money get to your head. Materialism is the death of the soul.

It's all about life choices, I made my choice to work for an oil company. At first I was loving it, the lifestyle is very easy. I get into work at 7-7:30am and leave work around 4:30-5pm. In between that time I spend 2 hours playing bball at the company gym. Life is easy, but at this age I feel like I should be grinding harder than this. To be honest, I really wanted to work in banking in college, but the opportunity at the oil company seemed more attractive to me at the time (I work for a supermajor), especially considering the hours and stress bankers deal with. I can tell you now that I should have pursued banking a little harder. I feel like I missed the bus. I feel like a toyota camry thats doing 65mph in the middle lane of the freeway while my friends at banks are topping 100mph in the fast lane. I'm sure you're more than happy with your 100K+ while I'm only content with my 60-70K...

Keep your head up, I know I'm keeping mine up. Peace.

"Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a Champion" - Muhammad Ali

5/5/11

Where do you live? 100k is not a lot in the city. For a 100k to last, you have to live in Jersey and commute
.

5/6/11

Ecal, you should stop. Problem is, you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't think we all had the same attitude you do? "Oh, 90 hours a week? I can do that!" Of course we did. It's a hell of a lot easier in theory than in practice. Try a few back-to-back 90 hour weeks, with a few 100+ mixed in, and let us know how you feel. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

5/6/11
jimbrowngoU:

Ecal, you should stop. Problem is, you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't think we all had the same attitude you do? "Oh, 90 hours a week? I can do that!" Of course we did. It's a hell of a lot easier in theory than in practice. Try a few back-to-back 90 hour weeks, with a few 100+ mixed in, and let us know how you feel. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Try busting your ass for 25 years in construction making 90k tops your last few years and coming out nearly deaf with a bad back and bad knees to boot like my father.

I'm convinced some of you have just led a sheltered life and others have a weak character.

Talking about 90 hours like we work all that damn time. You know there's a lot of down time. You're not busting your ass all of that 90 hours. If you don't know how to allocate your down time efficiently then who is to blame?
The long weeks do drag on you but it's nothing that a little perspective can't clear. You're not hauling loads in Nepal up the mountains for 90 hours a week.

5/6/11

.

5/6/11

I'm not sure of the relevance there. Unless Ecal busts his ass in construction for 90 hours a week, then your post is irrelevant. It's much more likely that he works 9-5 in some shitty office job that he hates. Regardless, my point stands: saying "90 hours a week is easy" is fucking stupid. Ninety hours a week can be mentally draining, especially if you're a person who is driven by things that are not career-oriented: family, friends, or hobbies that are outside your line of work. Am I "weak" and have I been "sheltered" because I hate working 90 hours a week?

It would be one thing if I loved what I do -- I could understand the sacrifice. But I sure as shit do not love what I do, so why the hell would I want to do it to the extent where it ruins everything that I actually do enjoy to do?

5/6/11

And in response to "managing work load": you're right, I am not working the full 90 hours a week, but you don't think that's just as draining? I have to be in the office by 9am, and I have to be here until I finish my work, which means my time in the office is ~90 hours a week. How am I supposed to "manage my time" to do things I enjoy doing? Sure, when I'm not "working" I can surf the internet (to a limited extent, site blocks...) but I don't love surfing the internet, so I'm sick of that after about six minutes.

I didn't go to school to haul loads up the fucking mountains in Nepal -- how is that relevant!? If I'm naive and spoiled because I don't want to do that and was never exposed to that, then 99.9999% of people in America are naive and spoiled. I understand and appreciate the opportunity as a banking analyst, but that doesn't mean I'd (1) recommend it or (2) continue/have any desire to do it.

5/6/11
jimbrowngoU:

And in response to "managing work load": you're right, I am not working the full 90 hours a week, but you don't think that's just as draining? I have to be in the office by 9am, and I have to be here until I finish my work, which means my time in the office is ~90 hours a week. How am I supposed to "manage my time" to do things I enjoy doing? Sure, when I'm not "working" I can surf the internet (to a limited extent, site blocks...) but I don't love surfing the internet, so I'm sick of that after about six minutes.

I didn't go to school to haul loads up the fucking mountains in Nepal -- how is that relevant!? If I'm naive and spoiled because I don't want to do that and was never exposed to that, then 99.9999% of people in America are naive and spoiled. I understand and appreciate the opportunity as a banking analyst, but that doesn't mean I'd (1) recommend it or (2) continue/have any desire to do it.

You're making a dangerous assumption in your posts and I see it with a lot of the people that I work with.

We're nothing special and easily replaceable. Especially at the analyst level. There are others in shit jobs who can do what we do but for whatever reason (either of their own making or just variance in general) aren't doing it.

I know the long hours are shit but since most have to work to live I'd rather be doing this than the myriad of other shit, dead end jobs out there.

One of my boys is (well, used to be since what happened) an online poker pro who was hauling in around 200k/year. He loved poker but he always complained how shitty it was grinding it out for the money. How he'd rather be doing something else. Since FT and PS were shut down in the US he's been spazzing out about what to do. Why? Because even though he knows grinding online was shitty, he's not going to do much better anywhere else.

I don't know what most of you whoa re complaining think the job world is like out there. Virtually none of you will move on to an "exciting" job (whatever exciting may be for you).

About the hours; yeh it sucks but grow some balls. Go train during the day on your break and eat well throughout the day. Good work goes hand in hand with knowing how to bullshit around with coworkers here and there and make for a lively environment. It keeps morale up. Some of you may jut be sulking all day. lol Idk.

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