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Is this good for Wall Street or bad? From Bloomberg:

We are witnessing the decline and fall of the investment-banking profession as we have known it for the past 40 years. The evidence is everywhere. The increasing regulations on Wall Street -- as required by the Dodd-Frank law and still being written by the Federal Reserve, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodities Futures Trading Commission and others agencies in the U.S. and Europe -- will require the remaining companies to increase their capital, curb their risk- taking and reduce their principal investing.

From: Wall Street Loses Grads To Teaching

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Comments (208)

  • UFOinsider's picture

    Good. Less competition for me. Let the entitled rich do what they do best...play with the children...while the hardened workaholics from the lower classes slash and burn a new clique on Wall Street.

    Shit will be better run...this is best for everyone. The old guard never wanted to be bothered with doing this job correctly anyway, let them go 'discover themselves'. When they get their heads out of their asses, mommy and daddy will find them a good job, so don't worry about them.

    Until then, now's our chance.

    Get busy living

  • joe_monkey's picture

    My favorite comment is the one suggesting liberal arts majors are today's Michelangelos.

    Don't believe everything you think.

  • In reply to UFOinsider
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    UFOinsider:
    Good. Less competition for me. Let the entitled rich do what they do best...play with the children...while the hardened workaholics from the lower classes slash and burn a new clique on Wall Street.

    Shit will be better run...this is best for everyone. The old guard never wanted to be bothered with doing this job correctly anyway, let them go 'discover themselves'. When they get their heads out of their asses, mommy and daddy will find them a good job, so don't worry about them.

    Until then, now's our chance.

    Being at an Ivy League college and being rich don't have much to do with each other. Top Ivies are incredibly generous with their financial aid to their students who don't come from money. Many times, it is actually cheaper to attend Harvard than your state flagship. I can attest to the fact that at my Ivy, a significant portion of the class comes from very humble or average family background.

  • Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    This article seems to suggest that the reason why increasingly growing number of Ivy grads aren't ending up in I-banking analyst gigs is due to self-selection, due to Occupy Wall Street sentiment or whatever. However, I highly doubt that is the case. It is likely due to the simple fact that analyst jobs are much more scarce in this economy compared to before.

    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    It's like when someone gives you the choice to choose from a Ferrari or Honda Civic, you would be fucking retarded to take Honda Civic just because you are afraid that others will think you are a rich spoiled brat for driving a Ferrari. Teach For America is an absolute garbage gig compared to Goldman IBD. Those two don't belong in the same sentence.

  • Ches's picture

    I would rather do bitch work than get spat on by minorities for teaching them math.

  • In reply to Ches
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    Ches:
    get spat on by minorities for teaching them math.

    And all that trouble and shame for that glorious 30k per year salary

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    UFOinsider's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    Being at an Ivy League college and being rich don't have much to do with each other.

    Aside from the minority of smart kids from humble beginnings, wealth has EVERYTHING to do with this. Wait until you start working, it's even more noticeable. I'm from a working class town, and the guy sitting next to me spends his weekends in the Hamptons...and has the most sickeningly overentitled attitude I've ever seen. It's VERY ingrained here, and if these kids want to take themselves out of the equation...I'm all for it. Go, be free, educate and be merry. Meanwhile, I and a legion of other guys that never stood a chance get a crack at this.

    FYI, I'm not against ivies or rich people....but I am neither and so this is an opportunity for me and people like me. You can argue this point if you like, but that's how it is.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to UFOinsider
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    UFOinsider:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    Being at an Ivy League college and being rich don't have much to do with each other.

    Aside from the minority of smart kids from humble beginnings, wealth has EVERYTHING to do with this. Wait until you start working, it's even more noticeable. I'm from a working class town, and the guy sitting next to me spends his weekends in the Hamptons...and has the most sickeningly overentitled attitude I've ever seen. It's VERY ingrained here, and if these kids want to take themselves out of the equation...I'm all for it. Go, be free, educate and be merry. Meanwhile, I and a legion of other guys that never stood a chance get a crack at this.

    FYI, I'm not against ivies or rich people....but I am neither and so this is an opportunity for me and people like me. You can argue this point if you like, but that's how it is.

    Wait what? What does your example have to do with the student body at Ivy League colleges?

    Let's face it - there are douches anywhere you go, whatever college you go, and there are those 'spoiled rich' brats pretty much at any major college of big size. For example, George Bush's daughter went to U Texas.

    Maybe I could agree with your point that there is a bit of higher concentration of wealthy students at Ivy colleges compared to other colleges, but it is absurd to suggest that Ivy League and 'wealthy snobbery' are interchangeable objects.

  • seedy underbelly's picture

    I currently attend an Ivy. People aren't turning down WS jobs; they just aren't getting them anymore. A 3.2 English Lit major at Columbia, for instance, could have easily landed an IBD job with a bit of effort back in 2006, but these days it's next to impossible.

  • In reply to seedy underbelly
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    seedy underbelly:
    I currently attend an Ivy. People aren't turning down WS jobs; they just aren't getting them anymore. A 3.2 English Lit major at Columbia, for instance, could have easily landed an IBD job with a bit of effort back in 2006, but these days it's next to impossible.

    Dude, I fucking wish I was born just 5 years earlier. Fuck this shit, and fuck this economy...

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    UFOinsider's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded?

    If their parents are worth lots of money, income right after college is irrelevant.

    My man, if you are in an ivy like you say you are, wake up and look around at the people driving Mercedes and Porches to school at the age of 17/18/19. You still seem to have no concept of the money and power floating around you. If I came from wealth, there's no way you could make me work 100 hours / week unless I just loved it...but coming from almost nothing, 100 hour weeks is a small price to pay for access to wealth + power.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    UFOinsider's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    seedy underbelly:
    I currently attend an Ivy. People aren't turning down WS jobs; they just aren't getting them anymore. A 3.2 English Lit major at Columbia, for instance, could have easily landed an IBD job with a bit of effort back in 2006, but these days it's next to impossible.

    Dude, I fucking wish I was born just 5 years earlier. Fuck this shit, and fuck this economy...


    It will pick up again, don't worry, just do your part and the rest will take care of itself. The fact that some of your classmates are idiots and not taking these jobs is good news for you and everyone here. In fact, I'm not going to state this point again, as I still have family members graduating.

    Get busy living

  • deal_mkr's picture

    will cohan really annoys me and this article is typical

    he throws out some good statistics however seeks to explain them by throwing out a totally unsupported populist sucker-punch (that kids are going to TFA over GS). where is the data to support this?

    In fact, the first two thirds of his article did a pretty good job explaining why fewer ivy grads (and why probably fewer grads in total) are going into WS - fewer JOBS! Cohan was too dumb to connect the dots within his own article. He even reverses cause and effect - saying fewer graduates are choosing WS because they see that it is sinking rather than the more logical explanation that WS is hiring fewer grads because its going through tough times.

    Also, WS isnt as "cool" as it once was, probably lots of top grads are now going to work at tech firms. (Although is working at Facebook really more productive for society than working at MS?)

    i thought after this guys book/rant on GS bombed that he would finally get his soapbox taken away

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    happypantsmcgee's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    My buddy turned down Greenhill, Evercore, HW and Deloitte S&O for TFA and he is STILL the smartest guy I know. He has 4 interviews with huge name PE and IB shops in the coming weeks for an internship between his first and second year for TFA. So he gets the TFA Bschool bump and the 'high finance' experience.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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  • seedy underbelly's picture
  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    DRX's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    This article seems to suggest that the reason why increasingly growing number of Ivy grads aren't ending up in I-banking analyst gigs is due to self-selection, due to Occupy Wall Street sentiment or whatever. However, I highly doubt that is the case. It is likely due to the simple fact that analyst jobs are much more scarce in this economy compared to before.

    Fully agree. Several things have happened over the past few years:
    1) The amount of hiring in finance has dropped substantially due to the economy
    2) Banks have widened their nets to recruit at a wider range of schools. As the poster mentioned above, a 3.2 non-quant major may have sufficed in the past, but when you add 4.0 non-target quant students into the mix, it no longer cuts it.
    3) The amount of competition for finance jobs has remained strong despite the economy, since they still offer one of the best paying options out of school.
    4) Job security in this business is gone.
    Summary: it's not by choice.

    Also, in response to the hating on TFA: while most of the people on this board would love nothing more than to do banking at GS, it's not for everyone. That is a really narrow minded way of thinking.

  • IRSPB's picture

    I don't buy this altruistic crap. I will believe it when these kids choose TFA over GS in a good economy.

    These kids fall under the "vagabond" classification under Alex Chu's blue chips, average Joes and vagabonds system. And guess what? Blue chips and vagabonds have an easier time getting into H/S/W. I see it as 2 years of TFA + H/S/W = enter a bank at a higher level. By the time they graduate from MBA it will be 4 years and they hope the economy will be better.

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    thejoker's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:

    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    120k means significantly more hours and stress. I'd rather take a 30k job and enjoy my life.

  • DRX's picture

    Believe it or not, not every person working TFA is doing it as a resume builder to work in finance...

  • TNA's picture

    If all the people who wanted to "change" the world by doing TFA took real jobs and donated a large chuck of their first years salary to inner city kids, more benefit would be had. I doubt that transient, non professional teachers, really make a difference in one year.

    Go work for Goldman and send 2 kids to private schools or pay for after school tutors for 10 of them or something. How about setting up a scholarship for kids to go to state schools or pay for community college for their parents.

  • happypantsmcgee's picture

    To everyone saying that TFA doesn't do anything, you're both wrong and right.

    If anyone is actually curious, read the book "Relentless Pursuit: A Year in the Trenches with Teach For America". There is some very very interesting insight, as well as anecdotes, as to the actual value that these kids provide.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • In reply to IRSPB
    Brady4MVP's picture

    IRSPB:
    I don't buy this altruistic crap. I will believe it when these kids choose TFA over GS in a good economy.

    These kids fall under the "vagabond" classification under Alex Chu's blue chips, average Joes and vagabonds system. And guess what? Blue chips and vagabonds have an easier time getting into H/S/W. I see it as 2 years of TFA + H/S/W = enter a bank at a higher level. By the time they graduate from MBA it will be 4 years and they hope the economy will be better.

    TFA has excellent placement into HSW MBA. I know a lot of ivy kids who can't get top finance or consulting jobs opt for tfa, so they can build their resumes and leverage it into HSW.

  • JWR34's picture

    Some banks have refocused recruiting on students studying Finance at the undergrad level (meaning students from top state schools/private schools with good business programs, most Ivy's don't have undergrad business programs). So that explains one aspect of it.

  • Thurnis Haley's picture

    Stupid article. They're not passing up on IB for TFA out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because of a lack of jobs. You do TFA when you're not sure what you want to do in life and/or there's few options for you.

  • In reply to Thurnis Haley
    happypantsmcgee's picture

    Thurnis Haley:
    Stupid article. They're not passing up on IB for TFA out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because of a lack of jobs. You do TFA when you're not sure what you want to do in life and/or there's few options for you.

    Agree with the 'not sure what to do in life' disagree with 'have no other options.'

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • In reply to happypantsmcgee
    Thurnis Haley's picture

    happypantsmcgee:
    Thurnis Haley:
    Stupid article. They're not passing up on IB for TFA out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because of a lack of jobs. You do TFA when you're not sure what you want to do in life and/or there's few options for you.

    Agree with the 'not sure what to do in life' disagree with 'have no other options.'

    I'm not talking about every student at these places. I'm talking about the ones that figured they didn't need a useful major because surely they'll get a job at a BB because they go to Yale and goddamnit they're entitled to one! The article ignores the fact that there's still plenty exceptional people at HYP going into medicine, law, public service, academia, etc. It's the people that didn't prepare for anything else by the time they graduated that have fewer options.
  • In reply to Thurnis Haley
    happypantsmcgee's picture

    Thurnis Haley:
    happypantsmcgee:
    Thurnis Haley:
    Stupid article. They're not passing up on IB for TFA out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because of a lack of jobs. You do TFA when you're not sure what you want to do in life and/or there's few options for you.

    Agree with the 'not sure what to do in life' disagree with 'have no other options.'

    I'm not talking about every student at these places. I'm talking about the ones that figured they didn't need a useful major because surely they'll get a job at a BB because they go to Yale and goddamnit they're entitled to one! The article ignores the fact that there's still plenty exceptional people at HYP going into medicine, law, public service, academia, etc. It's the people that didn't prepare for anything else by the time they graduated that have fewer options.

    Fewer? Sure. No other options? No.

    And how does one actually prepare to go to law school other than taking the LSAT? A Psych Major with a 3.9 has as good a chance as anyone when it comes to getting into a good law school provided that work on their LSAT for a couple months.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • In reply to happypantsmcgee
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    happypantsmcgee:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    My buddy turned down Greenhill, Evercore, HW and Deloitte S&O for TFA and he is STILL the smartest guy I know. He has 4 interviews with huge name PE and IB shops in the coming weeks for an internship between his first and second year for TFA. So he gets the TFA Bschool bump and the 'high finance' experience.

    For the record, you can be both very smart and insane. There are some geniuses who are down-right insane and lack common sense or some people actually suffer from schizophrenia. John Nash may be a genius in the academic sense, but he undoubtedly is an insane man.

    And, I am afraid your buddy also suffers from insanity. True, he must be pretty smart to have gotten those offers. But choosing TFA over those fine options implies his mental sickness or maybe mild symptoms of schizophrenia.

  • In reply to DRX
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    DRX:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    This article seems to suggest that the reason why increasingly growing number of Ivy grads aren't ending up in I-banking analyst gigs is due to self-selection, due to Occupy Wall Street sentiment or whatever. However, I highly doubt that is the case. It is likely due to the simple fact that analyst jobs are much more scarce in this economy compared to before.

    Fully agree. Several things have happened over the past few years:
    1) The amount of hiring in finance has dropped substantially due to the economy
    2) Banks have widened their nets to recruit at a wider range of schools. As the poster mentioned above, a 3.2 non-quant major may have sufficed in the past, but when you add 4.0 non-target quant students into the mix, it no longer cuts it.
    3) The amount of competition for finance jobs has remained strong despite the economy, since they still offer one of the best paying options out of school.
    4) Job security in this business is gone.
    Summary: it's not by choice.

    Also, in response to the hating on TFA: while most of the people on this board would love nothing more than to do banking at GS, it's not for everyone. That is a really narrow minded way of thinking.

    I am wondering, is your point #2 true though? So, just few years ago, banks exclusively recruited only at targets and ignored semi or non-targets completely?

    This would really explain why many Ivy grads aren't ending up in IBD or S&T in as much of quantity as before. Reduced supply of these jobs, and increased competition for those jobs...

    Also, wouldn't this imply that the career-benefits of attending a target school isn't very strong at all? (or at least not as strong as some people hyped it up to be)

  • In reply to UFOinsider
    Devils Advocate's picture

    UFOinsider:
    Good. Less competition for me. Let the entitled rich do what they do best...play with the children...while the hardened workaholics from the lower classes slash and burn a new clique on Wall Street.

    Shit will be better run...this is best for everyone. The old guard never wanted to be bothered with doing this job correctly anyway, let them go 'discover themselves'. When they get their heads out of their asses, mommy and daddy will find them a good job, so don't worry about them.

    Until then, now's our chance.

    Please shut the fuck up.

  • In reply to JWR34
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    JWR34:
    Some banks have refocused recruiting on students studying Finance at the undergrad level (meaning students from top state schools/private schools with good business programs, most Ivy's don't have undergrad business programs). So that explains one aspect of it.

    Any truth to this statement? Having a hard time believing that banks would target UVA or UMIch business students more heavily (or as heavily) than Harvard or Princeton kids.

  • Brady4MVP's picture

    There are very few "altruistic" people at these schools. Look at the top performers, like rhodes and marshall scholars, for instance. They do an insane amount of community service while in college, like setting up non-profits or volunteering in sub-sahara Africa. But then you look at where they end up going, and it's usually law school or finance.

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    happypantsmcgee's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    happypantsmcgee:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    My buddy turned down Greenhill, Evercore, HW and Deloitte S&O for TFA and he is STILL the smartest guy I know. He has 4 interviews with huge name PE and IB shops in the coming weeks for an internship between his first and second year for TFA. So he gets the TFA Bschool bump and the 'high finance' experience.

    For the record, you can be both very smart and insane. There are some geniuses who are down-right insane and lack common sense or some people actually suffer from schizophrenia. John Nash may be a genius in the academic sense, but he undoubtedly is an insane man.

    And, I am afraid your buddy also suffers from insanity. True, he must be pretty smart to have gotten those offers. But choosing TFA over those fine options implies his mental sickness or maybe mild symptoms of schizophrenia.


    Yea, he's nuts. Got the TFA resume bump. WIll make ~40k as an intern this summer and still end up at a better firm than 99.5% of anyone who works in finance. Definitely a schizo.

    You're a fucking idiot.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • In reply to happypantsmcgee
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    happypantsmcgee:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    happypantsmcgee:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    My buddy turned down Greenhill, Evercore, HW and Deloitte S&O for TFA and he is STILL the smartest guy I know. He has 4 interviews with huge name PE and IB shops in the coming weeks for an internship between his first and second year for TFA. So he gets the TFA Bschool bump and the 'high finance' experience.

    For the record, you can be both very smart and insane. There are some geniuses who are down-right insane and lack common sense or some people actually suffer from schizophrenia. John Nash may be a genius in the academic sense, but he undoubtedly is an insane man.

    And, I am afraid your buddy also suffers from insanity. True, he must be pretty smart to have gotten those offers. But choosing TFA over those fine options implies his mental sickness or maybe mild symptoms of schizophrenia.


    Yea, he's nuts. Got the TFA resume bump. WIll make ~40k as an intern this summer and still end up at a better firm than 99.5% of anyone who works in finance. Definitely a schizo.

    You're a fucking idiot.

    No. Fuck you. And, fuck TFA. And LOL at your statement that TFA gives you better exit options than BB IBD. What a fucking clown.

  • In reply to Devils Advocate
    UFOinsider's picture

    Devils Advocate:
    UFOinsider:
    Good. Less competition for me. Let the entitled rich do what they do best...play with the children...while the hardened workaholics from the lower classes slash and burn a new clique on Wall Street.

    Shit will be better run...this is best for everyone. The old guard never wanted to be bothered with doing this job correctly anyway, let them go 'discover themselves'. When they get their heads out of their asses, mommy and daddy will find them a good job, so don't worry about them.

    Until then, now's our chance.

    Please shut the fuck up.


    http://www.hetemeel.com/haha/44457.Why+do+you%20SU...

    Do you have any idea what it does to a person, their entire family, to be exposed to legacy changing wealth and to work in NYC's financial district? It's mindblowing, in the best possible way. For the better part of a decade I've poured drinks for rich people, and now I'm in the same companies as them...it's quite a trip. I harbor no ill will towards them, hell their tips allowed me to pay for college, and if their kids want to go be teachers, great, that just means the few jobs left here open up to me and the people I grew up with.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    UFOinsider's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    happypantsmcgee:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    happypantsmcgee:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    And, Ivy grads turning down Goldman IBD analyst job offer for Teach For America? Are you fucking kidding me?? No person in a sane mind would do that. Why the fuck would anyone turn down a 120k per year job for a 30k per year job unless he is retarded? If I happened to know someone who makes such a choice, I would force that individual to get his head examined for sanity. Seriously.

    My buddy turned down Greenhill, Evercore, HW and Deloitte S&O for TFA and he is STILL the smartest guy I know. He has 4 interviews with huge name PE and IB shops in the coming weeks for an internship between his first and second year for TFA. So he gets the TFA Bschool bump and the 'high finance' experience.

    For the record, you can be both very smart and insane. There are some geniuses who are down-right insane and lack common sense or some people actually suffer from schizophrenia. John Nash may be a genius in the academic sense, but he undoubtedly is an insane man.

    And, I am afraid your buddy also suffers from insanity. True, he must be pretty smart to have gotten those offers. But choosing TFA over those fine options implies his mental sickness or maybe mild symptoms of schizophrenia.


    Yea, he's nuts. Got the TFA resume bump. WIll make ~40k as an intern this summer and still end up at a better firm than 99.5% of anyone who works in finance. Definitely a schizo.

    You're a fucking idiot.

    No. Fuck you. And, fuck TFA. And LOL at your statement that TFA gives you better exit options than BB IBD. What a fucking clown.


    Actually, during the upcoming grad recruiting cycle, TFA will give VERY good options. For PE/HF, yes, IBD is going to give better options. But for almost everything else, I would not understimate the influence that TFA has on a resume....plus, almost the entire network is from ivies, so right there they have tapped a large body of sympathetic people.

    Enrique, when you finish school and get out into the real world, you'll see things a bit differently. Congrats on the good school, but realize that you're talking to people that have been out of school for years and have a little bit better idea of how things really work.

    This topic has been covered ad nausea, let's please move along...

    Get busy living

  • happypantsmcgee's picture

    I think most of you are forgetting that TFA doesn't preclude getting internships, expanding your network, and meeting so people that are very well placed to help you after the program is over.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • N.R.G.'s picture

    Having a hard time believing that banks would target UVA or UMIch business students more heavily (or as heavily) than Harvard or Princeton kids.

    Perhaps not compared to H/P, but compared to low-tier ivies, sure.

  • aempirei's picture

    William Cohan:
    Something like 90 percent of Bear Stearns's profits . . .

    Cmon Billy, I know you're better then that.

    My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

  • In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
    JWR34's picture

    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    JWR34:
    Some banks have refocused recruiting on students studying Finance at the undergrad level (meaning students from top state schools/private schools with good business programs, most Ivy's don't have undergrad business programs). So that explains one aspect of it.

    Any truth to this statement? Having a hard time believing that banks would target UVA or UMIch business students more heavily (or as heavily) than Harvard or Princeton kids.

    Not saying they are targeted more heavily, the Ivy League is obviously still the main base of recruiting for Wall Street, and at the end of the day the people with high GPA's from those schools can always get IB jobs, but it seems banks are now placing much more focus on business majors from top public schools and non-Ivy private schools with business programs, and the ones that fall by the wayside are the kids at Ivy's with 3.5ish GPA's and no experience relevant to finance.

    As a decent sample I attended a program for Sophomores at a BB last year. Only about a third of the students there were from Ivy League schools. I also know for a fact that this same bank did superdays for 'non-core' students this year prior to their recruiting cycles at Ivy League schools to go ahead and lock in top people from elsewhere early on.

  • IRSPB's picture

    ^^ Aaah so US recruiting is becoming somewhat like Canadian recruiting in that you pretty much need a business undergrad degree to get a job?

  • In reply to IRSPB
    JWR34's picture

    IRSPB:
    ^^ Aaah so US recruiting is becoming somewhat like Canadian recruiting in that you pretty much need a business undergrad degree to get a job?

    Not if you go to an Ivy League school. But speaking for the school I go to (regional semi-target for banking), options for the people that don't study Business/Engineering seem to range from low-end entry level jobs (ie the jobs people just think of as jobs, not career-launchers) or going to grad school. I know people who have graduated with solid GPA's in liberal arts majors and wound up looking for a job for months and then finally just settled for selling cars. People in less quantitative business majors (like marketing/management) are having trouble too. And it isn't that the school is poor. Accounting majors walk into Big 4 audit jobs and Finance majors don't have much trouble getting something in Banking/Consulting/Corp. Finance.

  • In reply to JWR34
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    JWR34:
    Sexy_Like_Enrique:
    JWR34:
    Some banks have refocused recruiting on students studying Finance at the undergrad level (meaning students from top state schools/private schools with good business programs, most Ivy's don't have undergrad business programs). So that explains one aspect of it.

    Any truth to this statement? Having a hard time believing that banks would target UVA or UMIch business students more heavily (or as heavily) than Harvard or Princeton kids.

    Not saying they are targeted more heavily, the Ivy League is obviously still the main base of recruiting for Wall Street, and at the end of the day the people with high GPA's from those schools can always get IB jobs, but it seems banks are now placing much more focus on business majors from top public schools and non-Ivy private schools with business programs, and the ones that fall by the wayside are the kids at Ivy's with 3.5ish GPA's and no experience relevant to finance.

    As a decent sample I attended a program for Sophomores at a BB last year. Only about a third of the students there were from Ivy League schools. I also know for a fact that this same bank did superdays for 'non-core' students this year prior to their recruiting cycles at Ivy League schools to go ahead and lock in top people from elsewhere early on.

    Very sharp analysis on your part. I gave you a silver banana for your post. I totally agree with your analysis, which confirms my speculation.

    And, holy shit, I happened to be that guy you are describing here. I am at an Ivy (lower ivy) with 3.5 GPA in Economics without high-finance work experience. And, I was shit out of luck this year for FT IBD recruiting. (And many others at my school in similar position as me also didn't get shit from IBD or S&T)

  • In reply to JWR34
    Sexy_Like_Enrique's picture

    JWR34:
    IRSPB:
    ^^ Aaah so US recruiting is becoming somewhat like Canadian recruiting in that you pretty much need a business undergrad degree to get a job?

    Not if you go to an Ivy League school. But speaking for the school I go to (regional semi-target for banking), options for the people that don't study Business/Engineering seem to range from low-end entry level jobs (ie the jobs people just think of as jobs, not career-launchers) or going to grad school. I know people who have graduated with solid GPA's in liberal arts majors and wound up looking for a job for months and then finally just settled for selling cars. People in less quantitative business majors (like marketing/management) are having trouble too. And it isn't that the school is poor. Accounting majors walk into Big 4 audit jobs and Finance majors don't have much trouble getting something in Banking/Consulting/Corp. Finance.

    Majoring in accounting may be the safest and arguably the easiest path towards a middle class, white-collar career track...

  • monty09's picture

    1. GS partnered with TFA a few years ago because they were losing more talent to TFA then another other BB
    2. Most other banks already partner with TFA for same reasons
    3. Fewer people are heading to wall street casue less places to go on the street. ML, Bear and Lehman are 200-400 size analyst class each that are no longer in the market. 600-1200 jobs are no longer on the market.
    4. TFA is not a resume pad for most students. I would say most TFA people are pretty impressive even before TFA. I know a few who did the whole banking/trading route during internships and wanted to try something different.
    5. The few finances jobs that are still hiring are even more tough then they were 5 years ago to get. The days of a school teacher to MBA to trade desk are over.

  • IamObama's picture

    My response goes to this comment, http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/less-ivy-lea..., which for some reason WSO isn't letting me quote.

    You are making a huge generalization here that all that matters to people is money? It is becoming more and more clear as the years go on that Wall Street isn't the glamorous place that many people are brought up to believe, that even at Goldman Sachs Investment Banking you are not safe and neither are you on the top of the world, and that maybe they generally don't like the assoholic culture/system of many BBs.

    It maybe that all you look for your career is how big your paycheck is, but some would rather be happy to settle for the basics and enjoy humanitarian services than slaving their life away for 2-3 years for a majestic promise land just to come to the realization that this promise land isn't exactly what it is hyped up to be.

    Not saying I agree that more people are going for TFA over GS but, there is a life outside Goldman Sachs IBD

  • Bruce.Wayne's picture

    Success is subjective.

    I, however, would never pick TFA over an IBD offer from any firm, in any city; but will respect the few that do. I will have to agree that the rise of people going to TFA over IBD has more to do with the current economy rather than a yearning for humanitarian causes. In regards to upticks and recessive economic climates, the people who truly value TFA will go to TFA, and if there is a sudden rise, it's probably due to the fact that student's are looking for exit opps into M7 programs -- TFA being one of them; in which case it is a viable option as opposed to doing nothing.

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