In 1983, almost 30 years ago, a report from Pres. Reagan's commission on education titled A Nation At Risk stated that the educational system in the U.S. was "a rising tide of mediocrity that threatens our very future as a nation and a people." In 2008 Eric Hanushek,a Stanford Economist, linked academic test scores to the future GDP of a country.
McKinsey & Company has estimated that if the U.S. had closed the education achievement gap with better-performing nations, GDP in 2010 could have been 8% to 14%—$1.2 trillion to $2.1 trillion—higher. The report’s authors called this gap “the economic equivalent of a permanent national recession.”
Even noted investor Wilbur Ross joined in on the discussion earlier this year by stating that high unemployment is here to stay and is a symptom of the greater issue: "a failure in education." Do you believe the education "issue" is a long term economic problem for the United States? Why does this major economic problem receive no attention from political candidates, political parties, and the media?
So is Wilbur Ross right? Is high unemployment here to stay? Surely it is going to be tough to keep unemployment low when 25% of High School students do not graduate(drop out). It must be a bad sign that HS and College graduation rates for young people are the same or worse as those for the baby boomer generation. Does anyone have any solutions?
I think that's a really interesting observation. It of course rests upon the presumption that HS diplomas and college degrees create jobs, which I suppose is a fair point. The notion of a "permanent recession" is especially resonating because it's a self perpetuating cycle: no education yields high unemployment, high unemployment yields low GDP/recession, which lowers everyone's income, making it even harder to afford an education for those willing to look.
I imagine a decent portion of those 1/4 that dropout do so to work--though, clearly not in the type of positions that create more jobs. Job availability being a finite resource, a languishing economy will only postpone impecunious workers' efforts to get an education. How you bolster graduation rates in a recession, I wish I knew.
I believe that education will be responsible the long-term decline of the US, but I don't think that reforming the education system or throwing more money at it will solve the problem. It doesn't matter if every elementary classroom desk has a touchscreen laptop and shiny new books, if the kids DO NOT want to learn, than nothing is gonna get the info into their brains adequately. College students study less than ten hours a week (but twice that playing farmville and fooling around on facebook) and get degrees not worth their weight in paper. Everyone nowadays feels entitled to a good job, house, healthcare, disney vacations, etc, and doesn't want to exert the mental effort required to get there.
Good luck trying to reform it. The gov't can't mandate how parents raise their kids, and that is really the fundamental problem here. The first step in the process of learning, upstream of everything else (books, teachers, etc) is whether or not the student wants to work to understand the material. If he/she doesn't, because that drive has not been instilled in him/her, then everything else in the system doesn't really matter. Its like buying a top-of-the-line computer with a 90s processor.
But politicians have made efforts in education. From No Child Left Behind to state governors creating harder school curriculum and mandatory college entrance exams. A lot of these efforts have helped raise high school drop out rates in poor areas where students won't go to college. But the thing is, not everyone should go to college. The economy needs the high school drop out giving you change at the convenience store or high school grad doing drilling in the oil fields just as much as chemical engineers and professors.
Agreed, but at the same time, a lot of high school dropouts are prevented from getting these kind of jobs do to the minimum wage, as at a higher wage and therefor higher risk, employers will be more likely to over-employ a college graduate than a dropout. If the minimum wage was removed, those without higher education would be more likely to get these jobs and lower wages and learn the necessary skills on the job to move up into higher positions.
Looking at graduation rates is not the issue, but what students actually learn and what skills they acquire. I spent K-10th grade at a "great" public school in a "highly ranked" school district taking "advanced level" classes. From there, I spent 11th and 12th grade at a college-preparatory public school.
The difference could not be more dramatic. When I showed up in class at the Service Academy I attended (which, for those of you international folks generally attracts students who would otherwise attend an Ivy or equivalent) I was a thousand times more prepared than anyone who went to a public school. I seriously could have slept in class for my first few semesters. In any class that required writing (history, english lit, etc) I would spend 2-3 hours writing a paper and get an A+. Other students, who were just as smart as me but went to public schools, would spend the entire weekend and be thrilled when they got a B or even a C.
Public education in this country is a joke. There are absolutely no standards. This also happens for university-level education as well. Even at top public schools like Cal, Michigan, or U Texas if you major in something that is a joke (i.e. "Women's Studies" and the like) you are still not going to acquire any valuable skills. Unless you major in STEM subjects, business, etc, universities are turning into diploma factories where you give them a hundred thousand bucks and they give you a piece of paper.
It's all about standards. As a previous poster mentioned, you do not need any flashy equipment in a classroom. Fifty years ago students learned algebra and read great literature using used books, pencils, notebook paper, and chalkboards. Now, it's just a bunch of excuses.
The sad thing is that most parents do not have the financial resources to get their kids out of the public schools.
Education is a huge issue for the nation's future. I think one reason for some of the gap between the US and higher performing countries is how education is extremely inconsistent in the US. First, each state has their own curriculum standards. Then each school district has a completely different amount of resources than the next. A great example of this is my home state of Virginia.
Where I grew up, in Fairfax County, six high schools are in the top 100 schools nationwide. A student could take any number of AP classes (at my high school there were ~15 available). Students can also travel to "academy" schools that offer specialized courses in a specific discipline (business, arts, dance, language, etc). However, if you travel 1-2 hours away, you will find schools that don't have the resources to offer even a single AP class (or even language, arts, science, and business electives).
Now, none of the countries that rank higher than the US have similar population size, diversity, or geographical separation that we have in the US. Those major differences can probably account for a large portion of the gap.
Many politicians do focus on education, but it is not a major issue, and for the most part they do more harm than good. Some examples of how politicians screw our education system up:
-States like Texas, with a strong preference for biased textbooks, influencing the textbook markets -Schools that don't teach subjects like evolution -Standardized testing being more important than actual learning -Laws like No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top, which create terrible incentives for school districts and teachers. These incentives don't promote learning or improvement, but give schools, teachers, and states a reason to cheat and lie in order to receive federal funding. -Schools having "zero tolerance" policies for minor alcohol/drug (usually weed) offenses. This disrupts a students life, and often leads to more negative outcomes for the student. Such as, further drug/alcohol use, lower quality education after a school transfer or alternative school placement, anxiety/depression from separating a student from friends, and a big red mark on their transcript that says expelled or suspended. -States that cut education funding to fund other projects. What is more beneficial to a state than improving its future workforce?
And yes, like others have said, throwing money at the problem won't solve it. I think having national education standards, and improved resources, training, and funding for teachers could go a long way. If being a teacher was a desirable job for some of our best college graduates, I think we would see a difference in education.
Why does the median teacher, across all levels of K-12 education, earn less than $50,000 a year? Yes, there are many overpaid and ineffective teachers, but there are also many highly effective underpaid teachers.
I'd also like to say that a large part of this problem starts at home. My father taught me to read, write, and do math before entering kindergarten. This gave me huge advantages over other students through grade school, and even high school (come on, you remember all the kids who would take 5 minutes to read 1 page aloud in class). If you really want your child to be "smart," you need to teach them yourself.
Your last paragraph nails the crux of this issue. My parents taught me to want to learn on my own. I went to a "failing" inner-city public high school by choice; +30% dropout rate, gangs, tons of teen pregnancy, etc. I had my own reasons for wanting to go to this school (mostly sports), but I think it better prepared me for life as a whole. I also found that I wasn't at any disadvantage when I got to college because my parents had taught me to work hard and how to learn.
My first semester of college (in engineering) may have been a bit more challenging because I didn't have AP classes (am older so they weren't as prevalent, particularly at a place like my high school), but I still got very good grades.
Our country is in need of a major cultural shift. As a whole, we need to embrace the study of math, science and technology and stop celebrating the Kardashians and Jersey Shore. This needs to start with parents taking a more active role in engaging with their kids from an early age, not just parking them in front of the TV. Unless there is a change at the family level, our country is going to continue to decline. There is only so much education that can be legislated in, if kids don't want to learn (as was mentioned above); parents need to teach kids intellectual curiosity. The problem is that the parents don't have it themselves...
Being a college student now, I can comment firsthand on the decline. I didn't do any work in high school, had an 80% average, and got 4's on the 3 AP's I took (Physics, Calc, Stat) barely going to class. The kids who had 95% averages and are now in prestigious universities got 1's and 2's. Now in college, I see kids getting 60's that curve up to 90's in classes like English and Management (no curve should ever be necessary in these). The school I go to is considered good by most standards and yet the education it provides is pitiful. Friends in other colleges confirmed my suspicions that it is not limited solely to NYC and I'm honestly frightened that my peers will someday be professionals working alongside me.
Low educational requirements are just a symptom of the larger cultural problem affecting America. I was guilty of laziness, complacence, a feeling of self-entitlement, etc., until the end of college. I felt that I was going to be successful no matter what. Teachers at my high school made me believe this as they didn't challenge us nor did they make us feel the need to try and outperform our expectations.
Basically it boils down to this: how many times have you been in a classroom when the teacher comes upon material in the textbook which is particularly challenging. That feeling of relief you felt when he/she said something like "we don't have to worry about that right now" is precisely the reason that American education sucks.
Well put
"Decades ago, when the Finnish school system was badly in need of reform, the goal of the program that Finland instituted, resulting in so much success today, was never excellence. It was equity.
Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality.
In the Finnish view, as Sahlberg describes it, this means that schools should be healthy, safe environments for children. This starts with the basics. Finland offers all pupils free school meals, easy access to health care, psychological counseling, and individualized student guidance."
http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-i…
[quote=DrPeterVenkman]"Decades ago, when the Finnish school system was badly in need of reform, the goal of the program that Finland instituted, resulting in so much success today, was never excellence. It was equity.
Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality.
In the Finnish view, as Sahlberg describes it, this means that schools should be healthy, safe environments for children. This starts with the basics. Finland offers all pupils free school meals, easy access to health care, psychological counseling, and individualized student guidance."
http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-i…]
Do you think a nationalized education system could be created in the US? I think there would be a big argument of federal vs. state government. Remember, our US Representatives and Senators are the ones who declared pizza a vegetable for the school lunch program. Are they qualified to design an education system?
I definitely believe in this "Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality."
"North Americans tell you typically it's all luck. 'I'm born talented in mathematics, or I'm born less talented so I'll study something else.'
"In Europe, it's all about social heritage: 'My father was a plumber so I'm going to be a plumber'.
"In China, more than nine out of 10 children tell you: 'It depends on the effort I invest and I can succeed if I study hard.'
"They take on responsibility. They can overcome obstacles and say 'I'm the owner of my own success', rather than blaming it on the system."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17585201
Structural unemployment is caused by several factors, one of which is education. However, given the difficulties of recent graduates to find meaningful and remunerative work, suggests other factors weigh heavily as well. Baby Boomer are also suffering from a skills mismatch, so it is not merely a generational issue- this spans the entire economy. Our economy is shifting in a way that many people lack the skills to contribute economically. Regardless of the economic merits, we have moved from a manufacturing economy to a service economy; and now, it has been posited, that we are moving from a service economy to a post-service economy. But it is not clear what people who cannot add value do in a 'post-service' economy for productive work- hence the depression we find ourselves in (or so the narrative goes).
One thing that the "education gap" argument misses, I believe, is that if all those kids that could have gone to college did go to college, assuming college funding remained the same, imagine how much more student and associated debt would exist. That is a economic drag that would also have to be considered.
Do any of you think more blame should be placed on bad parenting for this current generation? I personally do.
Oh course, but a politician is never gonna say the problem is parenting.
Do you think good and bad parenting goes through cycles? Or is this something new due to the externalities of dozens of factors?
We're going to be swept away by Asians. It's not because our schools aren't good enough, it's because our students aren't good enough. We're lazy, complacent, and entitled (to repeat what personofcolour said).
Most American kids are taught to "do what they love". Well guess what, the only kid who likes math and science is dorky little Harry, and we push him around at recess. Not everyone can be actors, pro athletes, fashion designers, film directors, video game designers, lawyers, journalists, or whatever the fuck else kids aspire to be nowadays. I think it's time to get rid of this "do what you love" mindset because it's beginning to become a relic of a past era of prosperity that no longer exists.
Now we have a glut of useless psychology and marketing majors who feel entitled to jobs because they pursued their passion. Fuck your passions. Meanwhile, Asians and Indians are majoring in STEM fields, the fields that actually create wealth and add value to society. They don't do it because they'd rather be solving math problems than learning about the intricacies of classical Greek literature or designing a pretty dress, they do it because they want a better life for themselves and their children. Also, their societies actually value being educated (if anything, they value prestige a bit too much IMO). Here in the U.S. we idolize people who get paid millions to read a couple lines in front of a camera or to sing/rap a song with autotune that someone else wrote. In South Korea, young students gather outside testing centers to cheer on the older students as they get ready to take their college entrance exams.
The gap between China/Singapore and US/UK's math scores for 15 year olds is the same as the gap between US/UK and Albania/Tunisia. China already files more patents than the US. I'm about to enter a Master's program at an Ivy in a STEM subject and 80-90% of my classmates will be international students (mostly from China and India).
Of course there are problems with China and India's education systems. They emphasize rote memorization and prestige too much while putting too little emphasize on creativity and originality. Regardless, they're going to be a lot better off in the long run while we wallow away in a mindset of entitlement from a past era.
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