I'm at one of the multi-manager equity l/s platforms (think Point72, Surveyor, etc.) as an associate/junior analyst, getting recruited to another one for a more senior analyst role.
From what I see around me, basically every l/s equity team (including PMs) works a ton, call it 6-7 days a week on average. Now I love what I do (equity investing, though it's more trading than investing, given the time horizon), but it doesn't seem like this pace is sustainable. Even if I move to another shop, I'm worried it will just be more of the same.
Those of you at other l/s platforms - do you know of any top-performing PM/analyst teams at your shops that have more normal schedules? Or is the only way to make it in this corner of the industry to just grind and grind?
(For argument's sake, let's say a top-performing PM team is one where he gets >$20mm to pay himself and his team. Got there from $1bn book x 10% return x 20% payout. Vary those up and down however you want but let's say $20mm is a good benchmark.)
You're going to get a range of answers, similar to the range of answers about 2016 being a stock pickers paradise.
I know fellow L/S PMs who work market hrs, but read constantly. My iPad goes wherever I go no matter what, my iPad is more important than my phone. If you love markets, biz models, etc etc then reading isn't considered work and your inbox is full of self addressed emails w ideas, data pts, etc.
Wait I'm just coming across this thread now how the fuck did this turn out?
I spent four years at a smallish ($500-$800MM) equity l/s fund. Weekly hours were about 60-70 for everybody. There was certainly a vast amount of work to do, even with a concentrated portfolio of 10-12 stocks, + industry comps & short ideas). One could work 100+ hours/week continuously if so motivated, but it's not healthy in the long run. I'm among those who believe that tired, worn-out people tend to make poor decisions about investing and everything else.
I had a unique position at the HF, mostly worked remotely from my home in NYC (with office 100 miles away) and spent much time in analyst conferences. Sitting in presentations punctuated by meetings with mgmt teams is time consuming but by no means exhausting, and when I was done the hotel bar was just steps away.
If your book blows up it's probably because you weren't disciplined and didn't think hard enough, not because you didn't work enough hours.
Surveyor/P72/Millennium are notorious for this. The strategy dictates it. Tight net exposures, tight risk constraints, lots of turnovers. Basically trading off of quarters, events etc.
The Tiger Cubs will get their pound of flesh. Less turnover but an environment full of guys that did IB/PE.
The large long only places generally have a pretty absurd quality of life (40-50 hours a week).
Tiger Cubs are that bad? Seems like some of them have ventured out to growth equity/venture capital, too.
Which large long only places are you referring to? I've only heard about Fidelity and they seem to be quite busy.
The Tiger Cubs are not bad. I don't know a whole lot about the seeds, grandcubs, etc. I do know that at the large ones hours are steady and pick up during earnings season. Its less than banking and better than PE, but still a demanding job. Its also worth noting that 100 hour weeks in banking have 60 hours of actually work. 60 hour weeks at a Tiger Cub are 60 hours of real work.
I'm not going to name names, but look at some of the more boutiquey long only places that have smaller teams (ie 10bn -200bn) range. Its 40-50 hours a week, lots of vacation, etc. Low portfolio turnover helps.
Done both the Tiger Cub and platform. They are fairly similar
~60 hours during the week (12 * 5) + 6-12 hours during the weekend + a few hours reading that I don't count as work but to 'normal' people probably counts. Difference is at the platform I am constantly behind, so I cheat by leaning my 'reading time' more towards actual work (research pieces, financials) vs. investing books/ industry thought pieces, etc. It probably ends up being an incremental 6-12 hours of work. My team is extremely lean so I am on the high end.
I think 60 hours (12 *5) is basically the benchmark/ minimum at a 'typical' L/S (e.g. not one of those ultra long-term, ultra concentrated guys). This is completely reasonable for a job that will pay you a few hundred thousand (more if you're good/lucky) a year. The extent to which you have to do more depends on: + How lean your team is - 2/3 active positions per analyst or 10 - 20? + How much shorting you do - shorts = higher turn over, more time managing risk + How short your time horizon is - shorter time horizon = higher turnover = more time getting up to speed on new ideas + How anal your boss is - self explanatory