I doubt anyone on this forum will be able to answer the question, but I'm going to ask it anyway:
Why are there hardly any "HYP" alumni amongst "middle-management" MDs (the ones who aren't "Global Heads" of some division or hold some other executive title)? Most whom I've met have been from random schools such as Fresno State, UC Santa Monica, etc.
I see a couple of possibilities: 1.) Banking does not require intellectual capital. Top-tiered college graduates have better things to do (PhDs, etc. - maybe PE/HF). The smart ones who stay in banking usually become executives.
2.) Your interpersonal skills become much more important at the senior levels - these "intellectuals" are anti-social nerds who get weeded out early at the lower levels.
I'm very strongly leaning towards option 2.
Your theories are welcome.
*note: I use the term "HYP" loosely so that naive prestige-chasing kids on this forum will know what I mean - I'm really talking about any top-20/30ish school. Also, I'm talking about UG - everyone knows that it's cakewalk to get into HBS following a top UG and a few years in banking.
Also, I'm talking about UG - everyone knows that it's cakewalk to get into HBS following a top UG and a few years in banking.
it is? really? i guess you should tell that to the thousands of rejected bankers. banking experience + ivy might wont even get you into an M7 these days. they expect buyside experience or something else at least. your assertion might have been true 10-15 years ago, but it certainly isn't true now
to your point, there are tons of 'top school' grads at the highest levels at PE firms and HFs. just go look at the profiles at Bain Capital or Blackstone's websites. in fact, go to any decently known pe firm's website. or check out the leadership at McKinsey, bain or BCG. or even boutique consulting firms. many, many partners are ivy/stanford/mit grads.
graduates from the top places are well-represented in almost all fields.
and frankly, i think you're overstating the number of 'fresno state grads' who are MDs. but hey, you've doing an internship and you know everything now!
I'll assume you mean top 20, because top 30 ain't shit. You ignore some other possibilities:
1) The kids that got in from bottom schools were superstars, and ended up outperforming their top school peers.
2) The kids from state schools don't have as many options, because the only way to get into top hf/pe is by knowing someone OR SIMILARLY the people at top hf/pe are from top schools and only hire people from top schools so state school kids can't leave OR
3)State school kids are so glad to have the opportunity they wont leave no matter how much it sucks OR
4)These mds started when IB wasn't so prestige concious.
I've also noticed most mds did "soft" majors in humanities and such...might lend credence to your 'social' hypothesis.
Anyways, get over any top school arrogance. Banking for the most part doesn't require close to enough brains for it to matter.
All the senior bankers in my office have stellar pedigrees, so I don't know what you're talking about. I do concur with dazedmonk's theory that superstars from non-targets are 'hungrier' and will probably be able to stick it out in banking better than others as I'm sure it really sucks after a while.
I just have to question some of your assumptions, because that hasn't been my experience, at all. Most of the group heads I met were Ivy undergrad that never went to B-school. Some of the best VP's and directors either didn't go to B-school with an Ivy undergrad or came from top B-schools (MIT, Wharton, not so much HBS) and a top 20 undergrad. However, they were usually smart guys who did something else - consulting, industry, etc. before going back to B-school and pursuing banking.
Either way, I think the whole "banking is a sales job and all you need are interpersonal skills at the higher level" theory is a giant misconception. You need to have adequate interpersonal skills but you need to show a high degree of understanding of your products and bring good ideas to the table, first and foremost. If you have a good personality on top of that, you'll win business. Case in point - one of my former directors was a total frat-boy from Cal that never brought in business and working for him was pure torture (although drinking with him was always a good time). One of the most successful MD's we had from a revenue standpoint was a Ivy league undergrad, never went to B-school, uber-serious and borderline nerdy, but very articulate and incredibly intelligent.
Now that I'm on the other side of the table and I'm sitting in pitches maybe once or twice a week, I develop a pretty acute sense of who's successful and what makes it work. At the very least, you need to be intelligent and come with good ideas - we will grill you. For example, one of the top tier BB coverage guys regularly golfs with a principal here at places like Winged Foot - and we throw some business his way. But the guy we give the most credibility to and always make sure we make time to accomadate him for meetings is actually an MD from one of the more well known MM banks who does none of the extracurriculars - just brings solid ideas all the time.
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